JVC Autocal Software V12 calibration for 2019 RS1000/RS2000/RS3000/NX5/NX7/NX9

[riddle]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to know if i can use the Xrite i1 Pro UVcut REV D for Jvc Autocal. I can get the device cheap just not sure if it will work for just color not gamma. I have he Spyder 5 pro for GAMMA only.

Please let me know before i purchase.

Thanks in advance.

Yes, for JVC Autoval will works only Spyder5 or i1Pro2. I use OEM i1Pro2 who works perfect and cost less than original.

[denist]

Yes I have read the start of the thread and Manni states it will work with the i1 pro just might need to re initialise it more than the pro 2. I will only be using it for colour as I have the spyder 5 pro for gamma only. 

Thanks. 

[riddle]

Yes with others software like Calman this will works but its not for free.

[Manni]

Yes with others software like Calman this will works but its not for free.

Although I haven’t tried it personally the original i1pro is supposed to work with the JVC Autocal, though it’s not supported officially. It can only be used for color due to the even more limited range compared to the i1pro2 (300nits max vs 1200nits).

I can’t recommend buying it, but if people have one they can try it. I would try to see which results I get with the Spyder first, as an i1pro might not be necessary. My old Spyder4 needed barely any correction when used with the Autocal V6 on the rs500.

I recommend getting an i1pro2 basic if possible for color work in V11, or using an i1display pro or better with another software and possibly correct the spyder errors, but that’s an advanced procedure.

There are free software that support all the x-rite family, HCFR or DisplaYCAL for example.

[SirMaster]

@Manni,

I read in doom9 thread about you saying that you ideally should have separate calibration for rec709 and rec2020.


I was wondering this about my setup.  So the mode that I had my NX5 in when I ran autocal was HDR color profile, D65 color temp, Gamma 2.2.  But of course the autocal applies to all color profiles and all color temps and all gamma values.

In madVR when I watch HDR I have the calibration tab set to, this display is calibrated to bt2020, and I have the report bt2020 to display enabled.

However, now I am wondering about what is the best way that I should be playing my rec709 content?

The way I see it I had 2 ways that I tried this.  The first way is just to keep the projector in the same HDR color mode, and let madVR map the 709 content to bt2020 since the calibration in madVR is telling it that my display is calibrated for bt2020. But am I supposed to uncheck the report bt2020 to display checkbox when playing rec709 content?

The other method I had was to switch the projector's color profile to rec709 and to switch madVR calibration option to this display is calibrated to rec709.

Is there some advantage or reason that one way would be better than the other?  I am not concerned about the switching projector settings and switching madVR settings as I can have that all automated through madVR profile groups and network control scripts.


So put simply, given that I use autocal and only own a splyder5, should I switch my projector and my madVR to rec709 for my rec709 content, or should I just let madVR map my rec709 content to bt2020 and leave my projector always in the HDR color profile.  And finally given that answer, when should I have checked and unchecked report bt2020 to display option?

Thanks!

[Manni]

I'm going to leave the madVR part of your question out as that's off topic, I plan to start a thread on the subject when the next madVR build is released and I'll explain all this then. But regarding the need for two different calibrations, here is the reason why you should do so:

- When playing HDR content, you usually have the iris fully open (low lamp or high lamp) so that you can get the max brightness you can get in that mode. This raises the black floor and reduces the native on/off contrast compared to a calibration with a closer iris setting.
- When playing SDR content, you usually close down the iris to target around 50-60nits (in a dedicated room). This lowers the black floor and increases the native on/off compared tot he HDR calibration with the iris fully open.

There is nothing to stop you from using your HDR calibration if your source remap to that target (yes you should have report BT2020 selected in that case to get the correct gamut), but you are raising the black floor and reducing your native on/off. If you use the dynamic iris, this can be less obvious, but you are more likely to have more iris artifacts when the iris is fully open than when it is closed to -6 or less.

And if you don't use the DI, then the black floor is significantly higher than it could be for SDR.

If the SDR picture is too bright in your HDR calibration, you can use an option when generating the 3D LUT to lower the target (Lightspace offers this) but again, this kills your native contrast so it's really not recommended.

So yes, I would use two different calibrations, one for SDR rec-709 (iris closed to target 50-60nits, no report BT2020 option in madVR) and one for HDR content (if tonemapped by the source, an SDR WCG calibration with report BT2020 checked in madVR) with the iris fully open to get as much brightness as you can for the HDR highlights.

Of course, if you don't get more than 50nits in HDR without the filter in the highest lamp setting you are happy to use, then you can use the same calibration for both, as you have no choice and nothing to gain from having to separate calibrations given that even in HDR you don't have enough brightness for SDR (so closing the iris isn't a preferable option for SDR).

[SirMaster]

OK thanks.  In my case then I think it wont end up mattering which way I do it then.

I don't use the DI, because the artifacts for me are terrible.

I will just have to decide if I want to run high lamp then for SDR and close my iris for increased on/off contrast.  If I use low lamp with iris wide open, then my rec709 content is not too bright, at least IMO.  It's 68fL according to my meter.  This is how I have been watching my rec709 content so far and I would not want it any dimmer.

I know closing the iris increases on/off contrast and lowers black floor, but IMO that is not worth my image looking too dim and dull to me.  It only takes like -2 on my iris to bring my brightness down to 60fL and anything less than that and it's just too dim to my eyes.  Plus my bulb is new, it's only going to get dimmer on it's own and sooner or later I will be below 60fL at iris 0 anyways.

I would have to play my rec709 in high bulb and then I could close my iris, but I'm not sure if the increased bulb wear and louder fan is worth the increase I would get in contrast.  And I doubt I am getting a lower black floor if I am using high bulb over low bulb even with the iris bringing my fL down in high bulb.

All I can do is hope that they improve the auto DI so that I can use that at some point.

[Manni]

I agree that if you're happy with 68nits in SDR it's not worth having two calibrations. -2 on the iris won't make a huge difference to the black floor or to the iris artifacts. You need to close the iris to -6 or lower to start reducing the artifacts significantly.

I have 60nits in SDR with the iris at -13 and 115nits in HDR (low lamp, iris open, I could get around 140nits in high lamp). In this situation having two calibrations makes a lot more sense.

I don't use the DI in HDR either due to the artifacts, but in SDR with the above settings it's fine. Hopefully there is a fix coming. All the issues have been reported to JVC.

One question, as you seem to notice the artifacts, which ones do you notice:

- the yellowing bug on whites, especially visible coming out of black (Lucy, Mad Max Furty Road)?
- the crushing of the highlights on small bright objects against dark background (car headlights in MI:Fallout at from 00:05:50, spotlights in 2001 at 00:)50:56, subs spotlights in The Meg at 00:08:49)?

It looks like not everyone (including people whose eyes I trust) can reproduce the second kind, and I'd like to know I'm not the only one seeing these. I wonder if there is something in my setup that triggers this (though it happens with all sources, whether the source does the tonemapping, say madVR, or the JVC does the tonemapping, for example with the UB900 or an Oppo 203 as the source sending HDR passthrough.

[David Vaughn]

I agree that if you're happy with 68nits in SDR it's not worth having two calibrations. -2 on the iris won't make a huge difference to the black floor or to the iris artifacts. You need to close the iris to -6 or lower to start reducing the artifacts significantly.

I have 60nits in SDR with the iris at -13 and 115nits in HDR (low lamp, iris open, I could get around 140nits in high lamp). In this situation having two calibrations makes a lot more sense.

I don't use the DI in HDR either due to the artifacts, but in SDR with the above settings it's fine. Hopefully there is a fix coming. All the issues have been reported to JVC.

One question, as you seem to notice the artifacts, which ones do you notice:

- the yellowing bug on whites, especially visible coming out of black (Lucy, Mad Max Furty Road)?
- the crushing of the highlights on small bright objects against dark background (car headlights in MI:Fallout at from 00:05:50, spotlights in 2001 at 00:)50:56, subs spotlights in The Meg at 00:08:49)?

It looks like not everyone (including people whose eyes I trust) can reproduce the second kind, and I'd like to know I'm not the only one seeing these. I wonder if there is something in my setup that triggers this (though it happens with all sources, whether the source does the tonemapping, say madVR, or the JVC does the tonemapping, for example with the UB900 or an Oppo 203 as the source sending HDR passthrough.

Manni...I think he said foot lamberts, not nits!

[SirMaster]

One question, as you seem to notice the artifacts, which ones do you notice:

- the yellowing bug on whites, especially visible coming out of black (Lucy, Mad Max Furty Road)?
- the crushing of the highlights on small bright objects against dark background (car headlights in MI:Fallout at from 00:05:50, spotlights in 2001 at 00:)50:56, subs spotlights in The Meg at 00:08:49)?

I see both very severely.  For yellowing, I can simply have like my MPC-HC window open but no video loaded so it's a black screen in the middle, but there is the MPC-HC GUI like around the seek bar that's supposed to be white or light grey.  It's very clearly yellow when my DI is on auto.  As for the highlight clipping, I see that all over on pretty much any film I watch.  I've seen it in Greatest Showman, House with a clock in its walls, Alien Covenant, Bladerunner 2049, etc.  Yes, it's just when there's bright elements in a dark scene.

And then opening up the projector menu makes both artifacts disappear (since it's forcing the iris open.)

So does another big WI AVS guy who has been over to my place more than a few times.  He sees it the same as me.

Also we both see both artifacts on his NX7 at his place as well.

And yes we see them whether we are doing HDr-SDR in madVR, or plain SDR, or HDR tone-mapping them with the JVC itself. Though it does change the severity of the clipping, but that seems to be mostly a factor of how far the iris is clamping down wihch is affected by the content, or how the content is being rendered.

I believe that the farther the auto DI moves the iris away from it's maximal allowed position you have it set at, the worse the artifact is, which is why it's lessened when you start the iris off at a partially closed state.


However, I will say that We both were not able to trigger the clipping/blooming artifact on another friend's NX9 in the usual scenes that worked on our NX5 and NX7.  The NX9 was on firmware 1.17, but he has since sold it so we can't look at that anymore.

[SirMaster]

Manni...I think he said foot lamberts, not nits!

LOL obviously a mistake...  My meter says 20.2fc when it's measured with my NX5 projecting on my 140" diagonal 1.0 gain 1.9:1 screen when positioned at the absolute closest possible throw (13'10").  This is 69.21 nits.

In high bulb it increases to 27.1fc (92.85 nits).

I just really like how the image looks at that setting for SDR even though I know it's a little brighter than the 16fL many people target.  I've tried closing down my iris a little, but it doesn't really look better to me.

[Manni]

Well re the DI it might very well be that this is a difference between the N7 and N9 because the friend whose eyes I trust who can’t reproduce has an N9 too (with 2.04 fw). Thanks for confirming that I’m not the only one to see this, and good to know that it can be fixed.

Yes I mentally corrected to 68nits when I read, but thanks to Dave for pointing it out!

68nits for SDR is fine. I can go up to 70nits because sometimes one less click on the iris and you’re below 50nits, and I’d rather be a bit too bright than a bit too dim.

[David Vaughn]

Well re the DI it might very well be that this is a difference between the N7 and N9 because the friend whose eyes I trust who can’t reproduce has an N9 too (with 2.04 fw). Thanks for confirming that I’m not the only one to see this, and good to know that it can be fixed.

Yes I mentally corrected to 68nits when I read, but thanks to Dave for pointing it out!

68nits for SDR is fine. I can go up to 70nits because sometimes one less click on the iris and you’re below 50nits, and I’d rather be a bit to bright than a bit too dim.

I had to double-check myself...I was wondering if he was watching his display with sunglasses on

[gonzalc3]

Calibrating color with the i1pro2 makes a huge difference. No more dealing with spreadsheets to fix the spyder’s error is a big plus. For gamma, the spyder 5 still works great though.

[Manni]

Calibrating color with the i1pro2 makes a huge difference. No more dealing with spreadsheets to fix the spyder’s error is a big plus. For gamma, the spyder 5 still works great though.

Yes, that's the main advantage of using the i1pro2 for color