JVC Autocal Software V12 calibration for 2019 RS1000/RS2000/RS3000/NX5/NX7/NX9

[riddle]

Yes, that's the main advantage of using the i1pro2 for color

Hi, can you upload your workout template from Calman?

Thanks...

[Manni]

Hi, can you upload your workout template from Calman?

Thanks...

Do you mean my workflow? It's only readable if you have Calman Ultimate, as it's not compatible with non-ultimate versions unfortunately. There is nothing really original in it, mostly a collection of layouts I've found and adapted over the years. I use three different workflows, one for SDR DCI-P3, one for HDR BT2020 and one for Rec-709. They are mostly similar with a few variations, primarily settings and a few layouts.

[riddle]

Do you mean my workflow? It's only readable if you have Calman Ultimate, as it's not compatible with non-ultimate versions unfortunately. There is nothing really original in it, mostly a collection of layouts I've found and adapted over the years. I use three different workflows, one for SDR DCI-P3, one for HDR BT2020 and one for Rec-709. They are mostly similar with a few variations, primarily settings and a few layouts.

I use Video PRO edition who is reale close to Ultimate, most of time i tryed IS advanced profile or ISF and your profile looks nice...
I have many question, but where to start. Will you create some tutorial for this MadVR calibrating or you can give me some advice?

https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1850.0;attach=2609

This is you projector seting?

Thanks

[Manni]

I use Video PRO edition who is reale close to Ultimate, most of time i tryed IS advanced profile or ISF and your profile looks nice...
I have many question, but where to start. Will you create some tutorial for this MadVR calibrating or you can give me some advice?

https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1850.0;attach=2609

This is you projector seting?

Thanks

Video Pro won't read Ultimate workflows unfortunately, sorry.

My recommended settings for these PJs are described in... the recommended settings section in this thread
Please read the first posts if you haven't already. There are a few brief notes specifically on madVR, but it's off topic here.

I intend to start a thread on calibrating these projectors for HDR with madVR, but as stated many times I don't plan do this until there is a public release of madVR with the final settings. Unfortunately I don't have the time to provide support for this and there is no support at the moment given that it's still experimental and keeps changing.

As soon as a public build is released, support will be available in the main madVR threads and I'll post my recommended settings and calibration tips for madVR.

[Sparky]

Hello Manni, this is Marc in Vegas aka "Sparky" 

So it is getting close to that time where I will be doing my first calibration of my NX-5 projector.   My question to you is the following:

I own a iD3, which I read is not compatible, "okay" so a bit of advice.  I am a novice calibrator - would you recommend I purchase a Spyder meter and use the autocal feature, or is it recommended that I use my iD3 with Calman and Lightspace (for my 3D Lut) and put my calibration skills to the test.


Note: I do want to progress as a calibrator, but I also want my NX-5 too show an accurate image.  What would recommend?  

Thanks you Manni

[Manni]

Hi Sparky,

Doing a bit of manual calibration to understand the basics is always a good idea, so I suggest you see what you get with your i1d3 using Calman and Lightspace. Setting the greyscale manually (you can use the i1d3 and another software to adjust gamma using the JVC Autocal without having one of the supported meters) or adding a 1D/3D LUT as you have a LUT holder should improve things significantly. Then you can decide if you get good enough results or if you want to get a Spyder and move things further, especially gamma-wise. Sometimes you'll be fine for a while, then realise as the projector ages that improving the baseline before running a 3D LUT actually improves the results.

There are a few calibration guides out that are excellent to teach the basics (for example by Tom Huffman and KAL) so don't hesitate to peruse these to get an idea of the underlying science. Just don't use the JVC CMS except for training purposes, it's not linear and will likely make things worse if you don't know how to compensate for this issue. You can get decent results if you don't aim for the targets at 100% saturation. If you do, you'll get nice looking charts (unless you check saturation tracking) but an undersaturated picture. You'll get much better results for color using the Autocal and/or a 3D LUT.

Personally, I use autocal because I believe in getting the best possible baseline before deciding on whether to use a 3D LUT or not, and if I do using the smallest possible LUT that gives me reference results. I don't see the point in creating a 21point LUT that takes 5 hours to create if I can get reference results with a Lightning LUT that takes only 10 minutes, thanks to a good baseline.

I could get similar results for gamma manually, but I prefer to calibrate in half an hour every 200 hours or so than spending two hours or more to get the same results every 500 hours.

If you're willing to spend the time learning, try to get the best with what you have. Deciding whether you need more will be easier

Then come back when/if you decide to take things further with the Autocal...

[Sparky]

Thank you for the advice Manny! I will follow-up after a couple of weeks in the approptriate thread with my calibration results for my unit.  

I am tempted to handle the color management through the autocal, because I do not know of another method to avoid the oversaturation, unless I just lower the saturation targets and use trial and error.   The Spyder is a small investment.   

[Manni]

Your 3D LUT  should be able to deal with the oversaturation, but a Spyder is indeed a small investment, and as you have an i1d3 and other software you'll be able to check and optimise the results afterwards, which will probably be needed for color. Gamma should be fine.

[Jbarteli]

Hi, total noob here with calibration.

I have just bought a NX5 which is calibrated, but my dealer is a 2 hours drive and don't want to go there everytime my NX5 needs calibration. How good is the auto-cal against manual calibration? And can a noob do this?

I'm using a htpc with madvr for my main viewing, what real life benefits does 3Dlut have?

Thank you and keep up the good work!!

[Manni]

Hi there,

Congrats on your new projector

Autocal can do worse, the same or better than a manual calibration, depending on how competent you are with a manual calibration, how much time you are ready to spend learning and performing one, and how technically-minded you are.

If you are reasonably technically-minded, a noob can absolutely learn how to use the autocal. Many have done so in the past few years, and will be happy to help if you get stuck once you've done your homework. The best way to start is to read the first 20 posts of this thread.

If you expect a push-button process where you don't put any effort in (starting by doing some homework), then I would say that you are unlikely to get good results, though luck always plays a part.

A 3D LUT can make a huge difference, or very little difference, depending on how linear the baseline is. I would argue that after a successful autocal, a 3D LUT bring little if you're not very critical. I run a small LUT because I want to be as close to reference as I can, but I could live without one if I had too. I wouldn't be able to live with the OOTB picture after a few hundred hours. Again, you will see the difference if you look at the measurements posted in this thread.

I would take it in steps. Look at the performance of your PJ as it's been calibrated. Are you happy with the results or do you think there are elements in the picture that could be better? If you're happy, enjoy the projector until you reach the stage where it has drifted enough to cause visible issues. If/when you think there is room for improvement, start reading the thread, that will give you an indication of whether you want to learn more or whether spending four hours driving every 1,000 hours of use of your PJ is a better way to deal with this.

If/when you decide to try, feel free to ask any question that is not answered in the Autocal documentation or in the first 30 posts of this thread (especially the FAQ). I and many others who have been through this learning process before will be happy to help. There is little to do until someone has actually tried, but it's much clearer once you are actually following instructions and doing it step by step, using both the hardware and software.

Happy reading, calibrating and most importantly, movie watching!

[Jbarteli]

Hi there,

Congrats on your new projector

Autocal can do worse, the same or better than a manual calibration, depending on how competent you are with a manual calibration, how much time you are ready to spend learning and performing one, and how technically-minded you are.

If you are reasonably technically-minded, a noob can absolutely learn how to use the autocal. Many have done so in the past few years, and will be happy to help if you get stuck once you've done your homework. The best way to start is to read the first 20 posts of this thread.

If you expect a push-button process where you don't put any effort in (starting by doing some homework), then I would say that you are unlikely to get good results, though luck always plays a part.

A 3D LUT can make a huge difference, or very little difference, depending on how linear the baseline is. I would argue that after a successful autocal, a 3D LUT bring little if you're not very critical. I run a small LUT because I want to be as close to reference as I can, but I could live without one if I had too. I wouldn't be able to live with the OOTB picture after a few hundred hours. Again, you will see the difference if you look at the measurements posted in this thread.

I would take it in steps. Look at the performance of your PJ as it's been calibrated. Are you happy with the results or do you think there are elements in the picture that could be better? If you're happy, enjoy the projector until you reach the stage where it has drifted enough to cause visible issues. If/when you think there is room for improvement, start reading the thread, that will give you an indication of whether you want to learn more or whether spending four hours driving every 1,000 hours of use of your PJ is a better way to deal with this.

If/when you decide to try, feel free to ask any question that is not answered in the Autocal documentation or in the first 30 posts of this thread (especially the FAQ). I and many others who have been through this learning process before will be happy to help. There is little to do until someone has actually tried, but it's much clearer once you are actually following instructions and doing it step by step, using both the hardware and software.

Happy reading, calibrating and most importantly, movie watching!

Thank you for your reply!

I think my dealer is very competent with the calibration and the results are excellent!
My concern is pure on what will it look like after 200 hour and more and when I then do a auto-cal will the results be good enough.

I already read alot about it i this thread but couldn't find the real life differences between a manual "good" calibration and for example a auto-cal with the spider. But then again the spider does not cost that much so I will try it anyway and when the results are not what I expected then I can always go back for my recalibration.

Thank again!

[Manni]

Regarding gamma, you can get similar results with a manual calibration, it will only take a lot longer.

Regarding gamut, you won't be able to get similarly good results manually because the CMS isn't linear. You need a good spyder (or a corrected profile) and the Autocal, or a 3D LUT to correct significant gamut errors.

Depending on the accuracy of your Spyder, you might have to correct the errors manually, which is complex, time-consuming and requires a known accurate meter and another software. That's the lottery associated with Spyder accuracy for color calibration.

I didn't compare a manual calibration and the autocal because I don't do manual calibrations anymore

I run a gamma autocal with the Spyder 5, a color autocal with the i1pro2, and a Ligthning 3D LUT for madVR with Calman using the Discus trained to the i1pro2. This takes about 30 minutes overall. So you can see what each step improves in the results I've already posted.

[Jbarteli]

So you are saying that if I buy a spider and do a auto-cal for gamma the results will be better then the manual gamma calibration by my isf calibrator?

[Manni]

So you are saying that if I buy a spider and do a auto-cal for gamma the results will be better then the manual gamma calibration by my isf calibrator?

No, I never said that. Please re-read my posts. I said that an autocal could provide better, worse or similar results as a manual calibration, depending on the amount of skills and time dedicated to each option. An Autocal is usually faster than a thorough manual gamma calibration, but it's certainly not always better. You can easily completely wreck a very good manual calibration with a botched autocal. And you can also significantly improve a poor manual calibration with a good Autocal.

I don't know your calibrator, I have no reason to suspect that the calibration isn't good (provided that your screen was taken into account), which is why I suggested that you look at the picture and enjoy watching movies if you're happy with your current calibration (as it sounds like you are). It will always be time to come back and investigate when/if the picture shifts and becomes lacking

[jbn008]

Regarding gamma, you can get similar results with a manual calibration, it will only take a lot longer.

Regarding gamut, you won't be able to get similarly good results manually because the CMS isn't linear. You need a good spyder (or a corrected profile) and the Autocal, or a 3D LUT to correct significant gamut errors.

Depending on the accuracy of your Spyder, you might have to correct the errors manually, which is complex, time-consuming and requires a known accurate meter and another software. That's the lottery associated with Spyder accuracy for color calibration.

I didn't compare a manual calibration and the autocal because I don't do manual calibrations anymore

I run a gamma autocal with the Spyder 5, a color autocal with the i1pro2, and a Ligthning 3D LUT for madVR with Calman using the Discus trained to the i1pro2. This takes about 30 minutes overall. So you can see what each step improves in the results I've already posted.

I've had several eshift units calibrated using my same (THX) calibrator and he always did the gamma only autocal with the spyder5. Then calibrated the color manually with his i1pro2.  He will be doing my NX5 soon so would you recommend autocal gamma with spyder, followed by another autocal color with the i1pro2.  As well as leaving CMS off in the end.

Thanks,
Jeremy

Sorry, I put my post within the quote i was referencing.

Manni-

"I've had several eshift units calibrated using my same (THX) calibrator and he always did the gamma only autocal with the spyder5. Then calibrated the color manually with his i1pro2.  He will be doing my NX5 soon so would you recommend autocal gamma with spyder, followed by another autocal color with the i1pro2.  As well as leaving CMS off in the end."

Thanks,
Jeremy