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JVC Autocal Software V12 calibration for 2019 RS1000/RS2000/RS3000/NX5/NX7/NX9

Manni

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Hi everyone,

As the new JVC Autocal Software is available, I thought it would be useful to create a dedicated thread to collect here the best practice and calibration tips for this version of the software (V11/V12) and the new native 4K models.

IMPORTANT WARNING: using the Autocal software changes internal tables in the projector. The first time you use it and save a calibration, it will create a .INIT file that contains the calibration tables as they were when the PJ left the factory. This .init file is saved in the folder you have selected in the software settings. There is no way to re-create this .INIT file if you lose it or delete it, yet restoring this .INIT file is the only way to revert the PJ to its factory state (doing a factory reset in the service menu only restores user settings, not calibration tables). So please make sure that you back up this .INIT and keep the back-up copy in a safe place. Also, using any software means that things can go wrong. It's a software. There can be bugs. Updating the f/w to V2.01, which is necessary to use the latest version of the Autocal, should be done carefully as there are opportunities for things to go wrong during that process too. If you read further, you acknowledge these risks and agree that you are using the software at your own risk. Please don't blame me if anything goes wrong, especially if you have not made sure to keep your .init file safe, or read and followed JVC's instructions for the f/w update. If you don't feel comfortable with this, please don't use the Autocal software, or ask a competent calibrator to use it for you.

EDIT 10-09-19: a new f/w V3.10 has been released as well as a new Autocal V12 which adds support for the Spyder X. See links below, as well as a brief report here.

I've added most recently some recommended settings and detailed brightness and contrast measurements, as well as calibration measurements and a first impression / mini review of my rs2000, all linked in the next post.

I've also added advice for preparation and calibration, as well as advanced tips and results. The whole basic section is completed.

You'll also find in the next post useful links to external resources or direct access to specific posts in this thread, either in the "reference" part (posts 2-29) or the body of the thread as it grows up. [Note: For now, only the links to posts with actual content are "live". I'll add the links as content is posted. Please refrain from asking questions about a [reserved] section until the initial content for the section has been posted. Thanks!]

I've tried to organize the information to make it easy for beginners to get started and for experienced users to get more advanced stuff. If you have any questions regarding calibrating the 2019 JVCs, please feel to ask in the thread, however...

IF YOU'RE STUCK WITH THE SOFTWARE, BEFORE ASKING A QUESTION IN THIS THREAD: please read the documentation linked below, as well as the Troubleshooting/FAQ in the Basic section. Thanks!

More later...
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 04:24:36 PM by Manni »

Manni

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Useful Links and Index to Content
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2018, 07:26:30 AM »
[NOTE: Under Construction, only the links with actual content are "live" for now]

GENERAL
Guidelines for participating to this thread
JVC F/W V3.10 (needed to use V12 of the Autocal software with Spyder X support) and previous f/w older versions with Spyder 5 support
JVC Autocal software V12 V1.0 (needs f/w 3.10) for Spyder X, or V11 for Spyder 5 and user manual download, brief report here.
JVC RS1000/RS2000/RS3000/NX5/NX7/NX9 User Manual
Screen adjustment mode table
Cine4Home review of an old version with pictures showing meter placement and screenshots
JVC RS1000/RS2000/RS3000/NX5/NX7/NX9 Owners' Thread


MINI-REVIEW
First Impressions on my rs2000
Feedback to JVC / Suggested Improvements

FOR ALL USERS
Basic: How does the JVC Autocal work?
Basic: Which Meter to use?
Basic: Recommended settings
Basic: Preparation
Basic: Calibration
Basic: Results and optional verification with another software
Basic: Troubleshooting/FAQ
Basic: JVC HDR Auto-Tonemapping feature

FOR EXPERIENCED USERS
Advanced: Main changes from previous versions
Advanced: Detailed Brightness Measurements
Advanced: Detailed Contrast Measurements
Advanced: Factory Color profile measurements
Advanced: Detailed pre/post measurements for SDR Rec-709
Advanced: Detailed pre/post measurements for HDR BT-2020 (BT-2020 color profile, with filter)
Advanced: Detailed pre/post measurements for HDR BT-2020 (HDR colour profile, no filter)
Advanced: Detailed pre-post measurements for SDR DCI-P3
Advanced: Checking a Spyder 5 for accuracy
Advanced: Correcting the Spyder's errors with a reference meter
Advanced: Using Custom Color profiles (and profiles to download)
Advanced: Manual Gamma Calibration
Advanced: Using Custom Gamma Curves
Advanced: Using a Vertex/Maestro and the JVC Macro feature
Advanced: Using a  3D LUT for Reference Calibration after the Autocal
Advanced: Reserved
Advanced: Reserved
Advanced: To Do List and Various Notes


In the thread:
Basic: How long should I wait before doing an Autocal?
Advanced: Meter profiling tips
Advanced: Quick tips for madVR calibration in Calman (brief off topic)
Advanced: Any advantage in using profile off with the filter VS DCI-P3 or BT2020?
« Last Edit: Today at 06:29:23 AM by Manni »

Manni

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First Impressions (RS2000/NX7) / Mini Review
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2018, 07:26:37 AM »
This isn't a full review, just first impressions so that you don't think I only watch patterns and spit measurements :)  .

I might update these initial thoughts once I've spent more time with the projector, and once a new f/w (expected in March) hopefully solves a few minor issues, especially regarding the dynamic iris.

The room
My (small) room is a fully dedicated room (bat loft, zero ambient light, fully black velvet/black carpet covered).
My (small) screen is a Carada BW 88" diag 16/9 (about 2m wide) with an effective nominal gain (1.3 advertised).

There is only one row, and my sitting distance is just above 1 screen width, at 2.10 meters.
The throw distance is 3.60m.
The projector is shelf mounted, at the moment below my old RS500, but I will soon swap them as the rs2000 is here to stay :)
When mounted in the upper shelf, the lens is aligned with the top of the screen height.
Horizontally, the lens isn't centered due to room constraints so I need a significant amount of vertical lens shift and some amount of horizontal shit.

The PJ was shipped double boxed, with a good amount of packing material between the OEM box and the outside box. The outer box was a bit bashed on one side, the internal box was a bit squashed in one corner, and the hard packing white material inside was cracked in a few places. So it looks like every single layer of protection did its job, and there was no cosmetic or internal damage to the projector. I have no doubt that the increased weight of the these models makes it more likely for the product to get damaged during transport. I hope that JVC will consider improving the packing material, especially when distributors/dealers don't use double boxing.

The unit is an RS2000 with a production date of January 2019. It came with the V1.20 f/w and had been QCed by JVC US.


Initial Inspection
The PJ is very good, but not perfect. I am not expecting a unicorn or a golden sample when I receive a production unit such as this one, I only expect no obvious defect that would significantly impact the actual performance and would be noticeable when watching actual content. I am especially sensitive to bright corners and dead/stuck pixels, because these are the most offensive defects that I see all the time once I've spotted them.

Convergence is good (less than one pixel across the screen) but not outstanding. I have less than half a pixel out vertically on red, even after one hour warm-up, on the lower half of the screen. I don't like using fine zone correction, so I only use pixel correction. One click on red make the unit fine for my standards. No visible issue on screen.

Focus uniformity is good, though not perfect. Again, completely acceptable. The lens is very sharp (sharper than my rs500).

Brightness uniformity is very good. I have one slight bright corner in the lower left, and an even slight one in the lower right. Invisible most of the time, except on fade to black, after a few seconds. Again, knowing how it can be on some units, I'm happy with this.

No white uniformity issue either.

Oh I forgot to say, no streaking, horizontal or vertical, at least none that I could see without looking for it, even with a 2% white pattern on a black screen.

Overall, this is a very good unit, even if it's not a golden sample. So nothing to complain about. It's a keeper! :)


Initial set-up
This model is easy to set-up. See my recommended settings for each kind of content. There is a bug in the DI (see below) so I watched most of the content with the DI disabled. The main thing to keep an eye out for is the brightness setting, that in my case raises the black floor and kills the on/off contrast with its default of zero. All my previous units were fine at zero (I use HDMI standard so video levels 16-235), I even had to raise it to +1 on the rs500. So make sure you check for this, I explain how in the recommended settings.

One of the most significant improvement from an ease-of-use point of view is the reduced HDMI sync times: they were as high as 15-20 seconds with the rs500, and they are down to 5-7 seconds with the rs2000, which is the same as my LG 4K monitor. I don't even think about it anymore, and that was one of my main issues with the rs500.


Calibration
I've posted very detailed calibration, brightness and contrast measurements in the advanced section. The calibration I used with MadVR was my DCI-P3 calibration (DCI custom profile using the P3 filter to get 99% of P3 gamut cover and 100% of P3 color volume, gamma 2.2, 6500K preset adjusted to D65 using my Discus profiled to my i1pro2). MadVR is able to discard the BT2020 container and deliver DCI-P3. This is not an option for consumer sources, as they can only deliver BT2020 (or rec-709), unless you use a VP such as the Radiance Pro. So you should use a BT2020 or HDR color profile in that case, as explained in the recommended settings.

Low lamp, iris fully open, I get a native contrast of around 30,000:1 and a dynamic contrast of around 175,000:1. Again you'll find detailed brightness and contrast measurements in the advanced section.

In low lamp, the use of the filter cuts 20%. In high lamp, it cuts only 10%. I'm very happy to use the filter in low lamp, but of course with a larger screen you might want to save brightness and use the HDR color profile instead of the BT2020 color profile.

After simply setting 100% to D65, I got a very good baseline from a gamut point of view, but not so great with the greyscale, especially in the low end (it was better without adjusting 100% white to D65). As I don't have the time at the moment to dive into the Autocal, or to run full 3D LUTs, I decided as the display tracks remarkably well to run just a Lightning LUT in Calman (around 10 minutes, only 101 points). This gave excellent results, near perfect greyscale, saturation, and colorchecker SG (average dE 0.6, max dE 1. 8)  . Again, all the measurements are posted in the advanced section.



[Note for MadVR users, or those wondering why I use a gamma of 2.2 in a dedicated room, others please skip: MadVR expects a gamma target of 2.2 for it's LUT input, so that's what I use to make before/after measurements more easily comparable. But you can set the display gamma to any value, as long as you set the target for the LUT to 2.2. If you don't use a 3D LUT, you simply have to specify to MadVR which gamma/gamut the display is calibrated to, and provided it's accurate, madVR will deliver PQ, irrespective of the display baseline. So it shouldn't make any difference if you calibrate the display to 2.2 or 2.4, the results out of madVR should be the same, again as long as the display calibration is indeed tracking what you tell madVR it is. The output is PQ, which is absolute, not relative. The PQ result therefore looks like a 2.4 gamma in SDR, so perfect for my dedicated room.


Content watched
All the content I watched and on which I based these first impressions was HDR content from UHD Bluray, from my HTCP with madVR. This is the best source at the moment, and madVR's dynamic tonemapping is simply the best way to watch HDR content that I know of currently, especially for projectors. Even its live algo has made tremendous progress over the last few weeks, so I thought it would be the best way to evaluate the projector's potential. When I find the time, I will watch content from my UHD Bluray player and comment on the new JVC tonemapping, but that was not my priority as I wanted to share these first impression quickly. This was with madVR's latest test build.

I watched UHD Blurays that I am very familiar with, and have watched both on the JVC RS500 from the UB900, then using custom curves, then using MadVR. I had about 100nits recently in HDR (my rs500 had about 3000 hours on the clock). The rs2000, after calibration, has 120nits (around 40fL), which is nice but doesn't make a huge difference. Anything above 100nits (around 30fL) is great for properly tonemapped content, and can be very good even down to 60nits (20fL). Below that, it's still nice but you need *very* good tonemapping to get decent results, especially with darker scenes/titles.

Film content watched included clips Lucy, Pacific Rim, Mad Max Fury Road, John Wick 2, The Shallows, Mission Impossible - Fall Out, The Revenant, The Meg, and a few others.

I'll try to report on SDR and 3D when I find the time.


Overall impressions:
From every single aspect of picture performance (except native on/off and absolute black floor), this rs2000 is a very significant improvement.

The rs500 was a very good projector already, especially with custom curves and then madVR, but it's no match for the rs2000, even with the loss of on/off, except on fade to black.

When watching good 4K content from Lucy, or the imax sequences in MI, or about any of the films I listed above, the uptick is significant to very significant.

The increased native resolution is clearly visible at 1 screen width. There is a lot more detail, and the picture is much calmer. This is especially visible on scenes where there are fine textures (sand in the opening sequence from Mad Max for example). e-shift does a great job on the older models, at least on my rs5000, but there is bit of added "noise", especially when the film has a strong film grain, such as Mad Max or the 35mm sequences of MI: Fall Out. There, the sky, the clouds, the skin shows with a lot less added noise. We get the film grain (which I like) and only the film grain. This is for me a very significant improvement, and it was one of the few issues with the rs500. That's gone!

The drop in native contrast (from around 40,000:1 native on the rs5000 is this calibration to 30,000:1) isn't visible to me with most content, especially hHDR content, unless I'm watching star fields or a fade to black. There is a lot of contrast in the picture (I don't know if the ANSI contrast is increased or not, but it doesn't seem worse than on the rs500, that's for sure). For example, the scenes at the hotel in Lucy with the bad guys in dark suits and the very bright lights, or the opening sequence of John Wick 2, provide an amazing perceived contrast, and very deep, very inky black. Once we can use the DI, this gap should get even closer and improve the darker scenes.

The black bars are not inky black of course, but they were not with the rs500 either. I use manual masking on my 16/9 screen, as I shift the picture to the top of the screen and I place a single mask at the bottom (I have two, one for 2.35, one for 2.40 A/R). This definitely helps increase perceived contrast, but I did all my testing without this masking and the black bars were not objectionable.

Color looked fantastic, well saturated without excess, very natural. Again, a big uptick to my rs500, although I could only cover around 90% of P3 at 3,000 hours, so I couldn't compare with new.

Shadow detail was excellent, even with brightness at -2 for max contrast. It was improved further at -1, with a very minimal hit to black floor/contrast. After watching both, I prefer -2.

It's really the first time for me that I had this "looking through a window" feeling that owners of projectors that I can't justify buying keep mentioning. In many cases, breathtaking.

In fact, I quickly had to mute the sound when watching the clips, because watching these films, that I know very well, on this projector, made me want to watch them all over again. :)

My main issue with the rs2000 is the DI, which I use only on Auto2. It does produce less pumping (for example with opening/end credits), but there are two main problems with it:

1) There are still some gamma artifacts in tricky situations, such as the underground scenes in MI:Fall Out at around 00:05:57. The DI makes a real mess of the car headlights, turning them into big blotches, instead of the well-delineated outlines that you get without the DI.

2) There is a strong yellow tint caused by the DI when the picture comes out of black. This is very visible for example at the beginning of Mad Max Fury Road, after the Mad Max Logo when we cut to Furiosa's neck.

I'm sure the second issue is a bug that will be fixed by JVC (they are aware and apparently a new f/w should land next month).

For the first issue, if they can't resolve situations like the MI:Fallout, I would like to see an Auto 3 mode that would only have an effect on fade to black, be faster than auto 2 and would have zero gamma manipulation whatsoever. The current Auto 2 is much slower than on the rs500 (it takes around 4 seconds for it to close fully) and it doesn't close down as much, which means that the black floor remains quite high. For example, with the rs500, I could reach up to 500,000:1 dynamic contrast and more (calibrated to D65), but on the rs2000 the absolute maximum dynamic contrast I could measure is 235,000:1 in high bright (uncalibrated).

As with former models, there is no difference between auto1 and auto2 regarding contrast measurements, auto1 only has a more aggressive gamma manipulation.  The ceiling is set with the manual iris, so doesn't change much between manual, auto1 and auto2. Auto only changes the black floor.


Conclusion
I did all the measurements first because apart from the need to have a calibrated picture, I know that if I start to watch content with a new projector (provided it's a good one!) I won't ever take the time to measure. This is exactly what happened with the rs2000!

I have kept my rs500 because I was thinking I could run a dual projector setup, with the rs500 for SDR rec-709 content and the rs2000 for 4K HDR content. Not going to happen. :) I'm going to keep the rs500 as a backup projector, possibly to tie me over in between projectors, but I don't plan to use it, even with SDR content. In low lamp, with the iris closed to -12 to get 60nits, and especially when we'll be able to use the dynamic iris on the rs2000, there is really no need to keep the rs500 active.

The rs2000 throws by far the best PQ I've seen in my cinema room. It's very film-like, has great contrast and looks significantly better than our local cinema (proving that size isn't everything).

So the rs500 going in semi-retirement, and I'm going to enjoy my rs2000 a lot. If you don't hear from me for a while, don't worry, that's because I'm watching movies!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 04:14:18 AM by Manni »

Manni

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Feedback to JVC / Suggested improvements
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2018, 07:26:43 AM »
Here is a list of suggestions for future versions that would significantly improve the use of the software.
Feel free to contribute if you have any (reasonable) suggestion. I'll try to get this to JVCs through my contacts once we've gathered enough feedback.
  • A better manual. The new manual for V11 is a bit more detailed, but it would be nice to have a technical reference manual with all the calibration tables in relation to settings, the aperture ranges that trigger a new color calibration, which settings (for example selecting a custom color profile) can prevent a gamma calibration, etc. There is still a lot of reverse engineering to do in order to fully understand the software and get the best results from it.
  • A “complete projector recalibration” unattended mode that would measure all the modes, for all the various iris, lamp and filter options (as now CMD isn't a factor anymore) and recalibrate the whole projector with the minimum number of steps. The new “reflect to all” for gamma is a step in this direction, but it doesn’t cover all the color recalibrations. The software could stop a few times to adjust the meter position if necessary, for example for high lamp and low lamp, but it could be very useful, especially if the next suggestions were implemented, for those who want to be able to change the settings freely during use without risking to end up with a non-calibrated “zone”. Failing this, or in addition, a full recalibration of the current mode, that would automatically go through all the aperture/lamp settings and run a color calibration so that all possible settings are calibrated.
  • Support for more meters. The i1pro2 and Spyder 5 are good, but it would be really useful to support the following meters (possibly through ArgyllCMS support, or using Lightspace remote control feature) : 
  • X-rite i1displayPro/C6 OEM, because they are very popular and users are more likely to already own one.
  • Klein K10A for its speed & accuracy, and because it’s also very popular with Calibrators and enthusiasts.
  • BasicCColor Discus because it’s an excellent colorimeter, very stable and reliable especially near black, and the only prosumer model between consumer models such as Spyder/i1display Pro/C6 and professional high-end reference meters such as the Klein K10a.
  • The new Spyder X
  • Offering a way to provide a correction matrix for the Spyder 5 Pro/Elite or any other colorimeter supported in the future, so that those with access to another software and a reference meter can profile the Spyder 5 facing the lens to the reference meter facing the screen. This would make the “spreadsheet method” currently used to correct the errors of the Spyder 5 unnecessary, and would likely provide better results overall, significantly faster and with less hassle. Even better if the software could generate this matrix itself using the i1pro2 facing the screen, so we can use the Spyder 5 for everything including color/white point calibration, and not just for gamma when we have both meters.
  • Better manual gamma calibration options. We need more than 11 control points in the gamma section of the software for an S-Curve or to make manual adjustments near black. 21 steps would be a minimum, 33 steps would be better. Also the gamma software should allow to enter a value directly in the box for each point so we don’t have to make all the changes with the very slow graphical interface. In fact it would be great to get the gamma controls back into the unit itself, as an alternative to the simplified 3-band controls. It’s really cumbersome to have to go into the software to make gamma adjustments. Finally it would be useful to have more than 3 custom gamma curves. 5 would be good, 10 would be great.

Here are some less essential improvements that would help with calibration in general:
  • Add BT2020 to the list of standard gamuts in the colour profile creation. We have Rec-709 and DCI, why not BT2020?
  • Add a “profile off with filter” option in the models with a filter, so that users with a 3D LUT box can use the best baseline for a 3D LUT calibration. Best RGB separation is usually obtained with profile off, and at the moment profile off—which is the only option without internal processing—isn’t the widest gamut as there is no (easy) way to use it with the filter on the rs2000/rs3000.
  • Offer a Rec-709-F (with filter) and a DCI-P3-NF (no filter). We already have a BT2020-F and a BT2020-NF (HDR) as factory profiles, but having factory options for the other gamut can be useful too.
  • Implement an internal meter to measure peakY and automatically select the most appropriate PQ Gamma curve brightness adjustment, as well as taking meter placement out of the equation for the Autocal. This could also lead the way to Dolby Vision support. The meter would read peakY and they would calculate the targets, enabling Dolby Vision as long as no relevant setting is changed in the user preset (lamp mode, iris setting, zoom ratio, gains, etc) and the lamp doesn’t dim or drifts by more than x percent (a 100% white pattern could be measured regularly to validate the DV mode). If one of these happens (change of settings, bulb dimming), DV would be disabled until a new calibration is done, a new peakY measurement is made and DV is enabled again. That way, Dolby wouldn’t have to worry about user measurements or drifts/changes causing wrong results, and we could have a DV implementation in projectors.
  • Detect black in HDR when the black level is raised in the content, so that the iris could close fully even when the content isn’t “black” from a stimulus/mastering point of view, but is still black from a director’s intention point of view.
  • Make detecting and calibrating the i1pro2 less cumbersome. First, if the user doesn't know that they have to calibrate the meter, a "meter not detected" error is returned, which is very confusing. So the meter should be first be detected, then a request for a white calibration should be added in a next screen, before accessing the calibration settings. Ideally, you would also want to keep a timer, so that such a recalibration isn't requested every time we enter the calibration menu. It is very cumbersome to have to take the i1pro2 off its tripod to put it on the calibration plate, or to find a way to calibrate it while still on the tripod. Any way to minimize the number of times we have to do this during a session would be most welcome.

Here are a few improvements to the PJ f/w that would improve usability/performance:
  • Allow the user to specify to which calibration / user mode they want to switch to for all content type, not just HDR10 and HLG. At the very least, we should be able to specify the SDR Rec-709 calibration (currently the PJ goes back to the last SDR calibration used, which is not useful if we use more than one). Selecting the calibration for SDR BT2020 and 3D would also be very useful. xvcolor probably less, but still relevant for a handful of titles. Currently we still need a HD Fury Vertex/Maestro or similar (if there is anything else that does this) to select all the modes that can be used according to content.
  • Fix the yellow shift when using the DI, especially visible when coming out of black.
  • Offer an "auto 3" mode for the dynamic iris that has no gamma manipulation whatsoever and only kicks in for fade to black. It should be faster than the current Auto 2 (which takes 4 seconds to fully close, less than two would be better) and close further, as much as possible, to reach deeper black levels.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 02:15:17 PM by Manni »

Manni

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Basic: How does the JVC Autocal work?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2018, 07:26:49 AM »
The software uses internal patterns in the projector and one or more meter(s) connected to a desktop/laptop (PC or Mac running Bootcamp or a Windows VM) using an ethernet connection.

I allows to calibrate gamma (gamma calibration) as well as white point and gamut primaries (color calibration). It also allows to create/import/export custom color profiles, save/restore user modes/settings, as well as to do manual gamma adjustments (12-points). It also creates a backup of the factory settings before saving the first calibration.

For a detailed description and before asking any question, please read the user manual, as well as all the posts in the relevant section (BASIC or ADVANCED). The Cine4home review of an old version of the software shows pictures of meter placement for the Spyder as well as screenshots that are for the most parts still applicable, although the user manual has up-to-date screenshots of course. This should help you to get the general idea.

All the details specific to the V11 for the 2019 models are covered in this thread, but I'm not going to repeat what's already in the manual, so reading it should really be the first step before going any further. :)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 06:05:28 AM by Manni »

Manni

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Basic: Which Meter to use?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2018, 07:26:55 AM »
If you want to use the JVC Autocal V11/V12, you can use two families of meters:

The Spyder 5 Pro/Elite/Express

If you want to buy one meter to do everything with the JVC Autocal at the lowest cost, that’s the meter to get. It's not perfect, but it provides great results for a limited investment.

Its strengths are a very wide range (it can read near black, I don't know the exact spec, and up to 10,000nits!) and a fairly good accuracy, although there is some unit to unit variation. This makes it the best tool (as far a JVC Autocal supported meters are concerned) for gamma calibration. It's normally used facing the lens of the projector.

Its weakness is that it’s not always super accurate from a color point of view, especially when reading off the lens, so it’s not the best meter to use for color (gamut+white point) calibration. Its color accuracy doesn't matter as much for gamma as three curves for Red, Green and Blue are run separately and it's mostly accurate for luminance. If you have an i1pro2, or can consider getting one, that’s a better tool for the job.

The Spyder 5 Pro (S5P100)/Elite (S5EL100) are the only models officially supported in this version, because they are the only two models in the Spyder 5 range with the environment sensor used by the environment feature of the Autocal software.

In my experience, the environment feature doesn’t yield any improvements in a fully dedicated, light controlled room. So if that’s your environment, you can safely buy a Spyder 5 Express (S5X100) and save some money. But if you have a white or colored living room, you might want to get the Spyder 5 Pro to see if you can get any benefit from that feature and let us know if it’s the case.

Apart from this environment sensor in the Pro/Elite, there is no difference in the hardware. All Spyder 5 models have a tripod mount thread, so they can all be used with the JVC Autocal. The only difference is the price, and the features enabled in the software package, which is entirely irrelevant for the JVC Autocal as you won’t use the Datacolor software. You only need the driver for the Spyder 5, which is present and identical for all the models.

There is no better quality in the meters themselves either, they seem to be as good (or as bad) irrespective of the model. I tested about 7 Spyder 5 (Express, Pro and Elite) and in the end I bought a 5 Pro as it measured very close to my i1pro2 off the screen.

Any Spyder 5 should take you 90% there. If you are concerned about the last 10%, you will usually have other meters and will use another calibration software, and we’ll discuss ways to correct the errors from the Spyder 5 to get near reference results.

My advice if you want to take the easy path is to get a Spyder 5 Express if you have a dedicated room or a Spyder 5 Pro if you want to be able to use/try all the features of the JVC Autocal. I don’t see any reason to buy the Spyder 5 Elite unless you want to use the Datacolor software and can see some features of interest that are only enabled with the Elite and not the Pro or Express.

As all colorimeters using non-glass filters, they can drift over time so I recommend to use a peli-case with dessicant to store them and protect them from humidity/temperature change between calibrations.

Here is some info on the range: https://www.datacolor.com/photography-design/product-overview/spyder5-family/

Note that the Spyder 4 and older are NOT compatible with the JVC Autocal V11, hence can't be used to calibrate the native 4K models.

The Spyder X Pro / Elite is very similar to the 5 except that it's about twice as fast and it reads off the screen, not off the lens. No point in buying the Elite unless you want to use a feature locked in the Datacolor software, which the JVC Autocal doesn't care about. It's still not usable for color unless its accuracy has been confirmed by a trusted meter. An i1pro2 is still recommended for color calibration, but the Spyder X Pro is a nice upgrade over the 5 for gamma calibration. You need the f/w V3.10 and the Autocal V12 (see post #2 for links) to use the Spyder X. I posted a brief report here. See also the review by Tom Huffman (owner of Chromapure) here.

The EIZO E3X seems to be a much cheaper Spyder 5 clone, but user ENT has confirmed that it doesn't work with the JVC Autocal (or Calman), so sadly it's not an option here.

The x-Rite i1Pro 2 (you only need the basic version for projector/display calibration use)
The i1pro 2 is a very good, semi-pro, near reference spectroradiometer. It’s average error shouldn’t be further away from reference than 1-3dE (max), which is very good for the price. That’s the meter I use to train my BasiCColor Discus when I use different calibration software to tweak a calibration or generate a 3D LUT, and the one I plan to use for color (gamut+white point) calibration with the Autocal. It is not to be confused with the x-Rite i1 Display Pro, a colorimeter also called i1d3, which is NOT compatible with the JVC Autocal.

There is no “recalibration” for i1pros, only “recertification”. Unless you use them for professional calibrations or suspect something is wrong with them, there is no need to recertify them, as they will come back exactly the same as they left, you will just have made x-Rite a bit wealthier. Unlike colorimeters using non-glass filters, they don’t drift.

The strength of the i1pro2 is gamut/color/white point correction. Its weakness is gamma calibration (especially in the low end), as they are not really reliable below 15% white when reading a typical SDR calibration of a JVC off the screen.

It's normally used facing the screen, which is an advantage as it can take the screen into consideration in the calibration. For this reason, JVC recommends to disable the Screen Adjust parameter in the projector after a color calibration with the i1pro2.

So ideally the i1Pro 2  should only be used for color (gamut/white point) calibration only, and the Spyder 5 should only be used for gamma calibration (preferably). If you only have an i1pro2 and want to use it as the sole meter, it’s possible to use tricks to get it to read gamma (I’ll explore some of them in other posts), but its limited range (0.2cd/m2 - 1200 cd/m2) makes it difficult to use in low light or facing the lens, even with diffuser.

It’s a great near reference meter and the best meter to use with the JVC Autocal to do a color calibration (gamut primaries + white point).

If you want to save some money, there are two alternatives to the i1pro2:

  • The EFI ES-2000, a clone of the i1pro2, that apparently is detected as an i1pro2 by the Autocal Software and possibly by other calibration software, but can’t be used with x-Rite software for licensing reasons. I haven't tried it personally but others have confirmed it works.
  • The older i1pro (preferably rev.B-D), that isn’t officially supported and has a smaller range (0.2-300nits). Still it can be used with the Autocal software, but I would only recommend it for a color calibration (gamut + white point), not for a gamma calibration. It also needs an initialization more often than the i1pro2, which makes it more annoying to use. See https://xritephoto.com/documents/literature/en/L7-518_i1PRO-i1PRO2_en.pdf for the differences between the two versions.

Whichever meter you use, you need the OS or manufacturer's driver (Datacolor or X-rite) to be installed, not another third party (for example ArgyllCMS). Also, if the manufacturer's software loads a utility (Datacolor does), you have to prevent this from being loaded or it will conflict with the JVC Autocal when it tries to access the meter. Note that with recent versions of Windows it's not necessary to install the Datacolor software at all, as a generic Windows driver is used. A generic driver (2006) should also be loaded by windows for the i1pro2, and a more recent one (2009) can be installed by some software (Calman).
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 04:08:26 AM by Manni »

Manni

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Basic: Recommended settings
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2018, 07:27:01 AM »
[PRELIMINARY, I'll update when I've had more time with the projector (and as others offer suggestions/corrections as well) and am hoping to post detailed measurements in the advanced section shortly. All measurements mentioned were either taken with my Discus trained to my i1pro2 or with my Minolta T10. My screen is a Carada BW 88" 16/9 with an effective nominal gain (1.3 advertised). Throw distance is 3.60m, which I believe is mid-throw. More details in the advanced section.]

Based on the initial measurements of my RS2000/NX7 (see detailed data in advanced section), here are the settings I would recommend OOTB for different type of content. My unit had f/w 1.20 installed. Note: If some of what I'm suggesting doesn't apply to the RS1000/NX5 or RS3000/NX9, please let me know (by PM or in the thread) and I'll correct/update. I haven't had the time to cross-check all options, but the below should apply to the RS3000 as well and hopefully to the RS1000 too, mostly. There is unit to unit variation, so YMMV of course.


Initial Set-up
I use HDMI Standard (and force it to 16-235) to be sure that it stays that way. I make sure that all my sources send video levels. You might prefer leaving this on auto.
I leave colorspace on auto, it's usually fairly reliable.
I left contrast to zero (I clip at 235), but at least my unit seems to be raising the black floor significantly with brightness at the default of 0, which wasn't the case on previous models in my experience. This might be an attempt by JVC to improve shadow detail, but it literally kills the native and dynamic contrast. I set it to -2 for all my contrast measurements, and shadow detail is still very good that way. I might move it to -1 for day to day use, as the hit on the black floor/contrast is minimal, and shadow detail (especially level 17/68) improves a bit. But the default of 0, at least on my unit, is a big no-no. Make sure you check for this on your unit!
To test for a raised black floor visually if you don't have a meter able to read black reliably: with the DI disabled (iris on manual), display a black pattern, press the "hide" button on the remote. If you see the black floor going down, it means that brightness is too high. Unhide, lower brightness one step at a time, and repeat, until you can't see a difference when switching between hide and unhide. It's much better, in my opinion (if that's the price to pay) to not resolve level 17/68, which should be just barely visible anyway, rather than to raise the black floor and kill native and dynamic contrast. But of course, it's up to you! :)


Quick notes for nVidia HTPC/MadVR users [others please skip]: the magenta bug present on the rs500 at 4K60 8bits in 385.28 and for all 8bits resolutions in all recent drivers including the latest is gone, which is great news. This means 8bits becomes usable, and leaving MadVR dither to 8bits might be a better option than forcing 12bits out because levels are still borked in 12bits with recent  drivers. [EDIT 01/03/19: I found the reason for this: there is a bug in the new models that force YCC422 behind madVR's back when RGB 12bits is selected in the nVidia CP. The driver sends RGB 12bits, the JVC reports RGB 12bits, but in reality it's forcing YCC422. JVC knows about the bug, so hopefully they will fix it in an upcoming f/w update]. Also if you had custom refresh rates created with MadVR or CRU, they are most likely not going to be valid anymore. If you end up with a green screen with your HTPC, your projector isn't defective, this is why :) . Simply delete the custom refresh and the green screen will go away. I haven't had the time to recreate custom refresh modes or finetune settings for nVidia/MadVR, but when I do I'll try to post some advice in a MadVR section or thread, along with recommended settings for MadVR for HDR and SDR, both for playback and calibration, after the next public build of MadVR is released. In the meantime, please don't ask anything specifically about MadVR/nVidia in this thread or it will quickly become a mess and non HTPC/MadVR users will hate you. :) . There are other support threads for MadVR so please ask any questions there in the meantime.


In all modes:
I set all MPC values to zero and I switch all the CMD options to off (except in my Sports mode). This is a personal preference, but I haven't really tried the new CMD. I hear the Soap Opera Effect (that I personally dislike with film content) usually associated with CMD even on low is reduced, so I'll give it a try when I have more time. I haven't experienced the yellow tint (most likely gamma shift) reported by some when switching the DI on with these settings, so it might help if you are seeing these shifts. HDMI sync time is vastly improved over the older models (from more than 20 secs in my case to around 7 secs), so very happy with that very significant improvement. [EDIT: I did experience the yellow shift with the DI, and it's not caused by CMD options. JVC are working on a fix. Also some nasty artifacts can appear when using Motion  Enhance, so my recommendation to keep that off along with CMD stands].

Regarding the DI, it still causes some gamma artifacts in scenes where I notice this with the rs500. For example, try Mission Impossible: Fallout Out and look at the car headlights in the scene starting at 00:05:57. Beware, not everyone notices these artifacts and some are happily using the DI with a fully open iris. Once seen, you can't unsee it, so please don't look for it if you're happy with the DI generally, there is nothing wrong with that. Apparently the DI is improved in others situations. It doesn't close down as far as on my rs500 and it's much slower (up to four seconds to fully close), so it doesn't pump as much on credits, but the downside is that the fade to black is not as good. I really hope that JVC will give us an Auto 3 setting with zero gamma manipulation (none whatsoever), and a DI that would only close as much as possible on fade to black, at least twice as fast as the current Auto 2 setting. I'll post detailed brightness and contrast measurements with/without the DI in the advanced section soon [EDIT: done].

The gamma artifacts (for those who notice them) are usually worse if the manual iris is fully open. That's the setting that gives the highest dynamic contrast. The closer the manual iris, the lower the multiplier, the less artifacts. This makes them more visible in HDR for example, as most will have a manual iris more open to play HDR content than to play SDR content. So the lower the manual iris settings, the less gamma (and pumping) artifacts.

I haven't had the time to do a full analysis of the dynamic iris, but if you see issues, try either switching the DI off, or try closing the iris further. In the rs500, there is no gamma artifact with the manual iris at -15, very few with the iris at -10, more with the iris at -5 and quite a lot with the iris fully open.

If you can use low lamp and fan noise/heat isn't an issue, it could be an option to use high lamp instead with a lower manual iris setting to reach the same peak brightness. This should not only reduce the DI gamma artifacts, it should also provide more native (but less dynamic) contrast. So experimenting with these options, if available, could help.

[EDIT 16-02-19: there seems to be a bug with the DI as it causes a yellow shift, especially noticeable when coming out of black. It wasn't visible with patterns, but it's definitely there with actual content, for example at the beginning of Mad Max Fury Road, when we fade in on Furiosa's neck. For this reason, I recommend to switch the DI off until this is fixed. JVC are aware of the issue and a new f/w is expected in March].

Again, if you don't see DI artifacts, don't start looking for them and enjoy the DI. But if you do, you know what to do. :)

Recommended settings for SDR Rec-709 HD content (Bluray, HD sat, etc):
You can simply select Natural, which is very close to reference, at least on my unit (see the measurements in the advanced section).
I prefer to have a separate mode for film and TV content, so I use Natural for TV (with CMD on low, that's my sports mode) and User 1 for film content. My HD Fury Maestro switches automatically between both (I'll post details on this in the HD Fury section later).
Whether you use Natural or a user mode, what you want is Rec-709, 6500K, in low or high lamp and with the manual iris setting that gives you the brightness that you want. Make sure the CMS is off. This should give you a gamut that tracks rec-709 very closely.

The cinema mode uses the P3 filter and kind of tracks DCI-P3 (so is not meant to be used with any consumer content). It doesn't track P3 as well as the DCI-P3 color profile though, so I wouldn't use it as it is. Film is of no interest if you're after reference. If you like either of these, feel free to use them of course. I might use the cinema slot for other content selecting rec-709/6500K (3D for example) to save a user mode, but I wouldn't use it as it is. Film is not usable as it doesn't offer any standard options, so it's a lost mode as far as I'm concerned.

To get 60-70nits in rec-709 / 6500K, I had the iris at -12 on my 88" diag 16/9 Carada BW (effective nominal gain). -13 only gave me 40-50nits, and I wanted some headroom for later calibration as I'll probably lose a bit later (with the Autocal and 3D LUT). As I get above 120nits in HDR (about twice as much), that's still a nice dynamic range improvement.

For gamma, I recommend selecting a 2.4 gamma (sadly 2.3 isn't an option, only 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 are selectable). It would be great to have 2.3 and 2.5 as well, but the gamma picture tone control allows to get there easily. [EDIT: there are more gamma options if you select custom gamma, so that's a way to select 2.3 and 2.5]. I had to raise it to +3 to roughly get 2.4 over the range as gamma was a bit too high otherwise. Then if you want BT1886, you most probably need to raise dark gamma a few clicks (+3 here). On my unit, simply moving picture tone to +3 and dark gamma to +3 gave me a very decent BT1886 curve (see the advanced section for measurements). Results could be improved further with the Autocal (manually with the 12-point parametric controls or automatically) but the results were very good after a just a few clicks on the gamma controls. There is unit to unit variation, so the above is only for information. You can try without a meter, but most likely YMMV.


Recommended settings for 3D content:
You need to set either cinema mode or a user mode to rec-709 / 6500K. You can use any lamp/iris setting you want (I would suggest high lamp fully open with the DI on). I haven't done any test on 3D yet, so I won't make more specific recommendations until I find the time to do so or others I trust post their recommended 3D settings. I would suspect that setting CMD on low should work well especially for animation if you like that in 3D. I'll update this part when I find the time to test 3D.


Recommended settings for UHD Blurays doing the tonemapping internally and sending SDR BT2020 using the full dynamic range (UB820, Oppo 203/205, etc):
I recommend selecting a user mode (I use User Mode 2 for this) and selecting the BT2020 color profile (or the HDR color profile if your model doesn't have a P3 filter, such as the N5/RS1000), 6500K color temp, gamma 2.4, iris fully open in low or high lamp, and adjust tonemapping settings on the source. I haven't tested this myself yet, but that should give the most correct results. If you are brightness starved and are happy to sacrifice saturation to brightness (100% of P3 to around 85% on my unit) to avoid losing around 20% brightness with the P3 filter, you can select the HDR color profile instead. [Edit 16-02/19: it looks like in high lamp the filter only cuts 10% (15% gain from no filter), which might explain why the numbers are all over the place. I posted detailed measurements in the contrast section showing the delta for BT2020 and HDR in high lamp, iris open, both native and dynamic.]

Note: For older models such as the UB900, I would (off memory, I haven't re-tested this recently) recommend a peak white of no more than 100nits, because I think that's what these units do. They don't use the whole dynamic range of the display/projector like the UB820/Oppos, they simply map to standard HDR, so 100nits peak for flat panels.


Recommended settings for UHD Sources expecting the display to do the tonemapping (UHD Bluray players, mediaplayers sending HDR as HDR):
I recommend using the HDR10 factory mode, and selecting the BT2020 color profile (or the HDR color profile if your model doesn't have a P3 filter, such as the N5/RS1000), 6500K color temp, PQ gamma, iris fully open (best dynamic on/off) in low lamp or high lamp. If you don't use the DI and have some brightness in reserve, you might want to lower the manual iris setting to increase native on/off and lower the black floor. The BT2020 color profile track BT2020 container saturations very well, up to almost 75% of P3. It covers 99% of P3 on my unit, due to a very slight undersaturation on red. Green and blue fully meet their targets. Of course this will vary unit per unit.

As above, if you are brightness starved (or if your model doesn't have a P3 filter), selecting the HDR color profile will give you more brightness at the expense of saturation, and the saturations will still track very well up to around 85% of P3. After that, it will clip content.  Note that I believe I'm on the low side regarding gamut cover with this unit. I would expect a typical unit to reach 100-105% of P3 with the filter and 85-90% without. We'll know more when more units are measured, but I guess this one is within specs.

There isn't much actual content at the edge of the P3 gamut currently. As saturations track BT2020 well both with the BT2020 and HDR color profiles, selecting HDR to gain brightness if you need it is a perfectly sound compromise. RS1000/NX5 owners shouldn't worry about the absence of filter, it's definitely not mandatory to get excellent results, on all models.

With the HDR color profile selected (BT2020 no filter) or on the RS1000/NX5, you should still be getting something midway between rec-709 and P3: rec-709 is around 70% of P3, HDR (no filter) is around 85% of P3, and BT2020 with the filter is close to 100% of P3, at least on my unit.

This being said, given that a wide color gamut is one of the benefits of HDR titles, I personally take all I can on the RS2000, thanks to my puny screen.

Also, as there is more and more content mastered to BT2020 and not P3, once there starts to be content beyond P3, more content will be clipped if HDR is selected.

So my advice is of course to use the HDR color profile if you can't get at least 50-75nits peak white in HDR with your current screen. I get 120nits (40fL) using BT2020 and with good tonemapping this is more than enough. In fact with good dynamic tonemapping, you can get excellent results even with only 50nits peak white in HDR.

On the other hand, if you're about to purchase a screen and want to future-proof your install, I would carefully think about its size and gain and discuss this with your installer before doing so in order to try, if you can, to get at least 75nits peak white with the filter enabled in HDR (so BT2020 color profile), and preferably around 100nits if at all possible. If bringing the seats closer is an option in your room, it might be preferable to getting the maximum screen size you can get in SDR and then have to hobble the HDR picture further than it could be. Or adding a DCR A-lens to get 35-38% more brightness using the full panel, if you don't already have one and can afford it, as the new JVCs now support it. :) .

For me a 20% hit on brightness [EDIT 16-02-19: in low lamp, it looks like the cut is only 10% in high lamp] is a price I'm very happy to pay, again with good tonemapping. Getting 50fL (150nits) peak brightness for HDR is not mandatory in my opinion, provided you are using a good (professional) calibration or dynamic tonemapping.

Those stating that 50fL is needed in HDR for projectors are either unable to calibrate the projector with good custom curves or are not familiar with what good tonemapping (especially dynamic) can do with 30fL, or even 20fL.

50fL is only needed to show shadow details with all titles if a good balance hasn't been found between brightness and highlights. It's certainly not mandatory.

For MadVR users [others please skip]:
I recommend using MadVR's pixel shader dynamic tonemapping with the JVC, as it is excellent. It provides better than HDR10+ results with HDR10 content, and will be available in the next public release of MadVR (at the moment it's only test builds in an experimental thread and there is no support there). If you do this, use the SDR BT2020 mode above and tell MadVR that your display is already calibrated to BT2020 and gamma 2.4.

If you use a MadVR 3D LUT to correct this even further, you have to use a gamma 2.2 target for the LUT (it doesn't matter what the target is on the display baseline, so feel free to use 2.4 to make it compatible with another source). Also in that case I recommend not using an SDR BT2020 LUT and targeting DCI-P3 instead to limit posterization issues. MadVR will tonemap to P3 (in fact simply discarding the BT2020 container in most cases). Again, please do *not* ask questions about MadVR in this thread. I will try to post detailed HDR calibration and playback settings for MadVR users after the next public build of MadVR is released. In the meantime, please use other MadVR support threads to ask questions.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 12:49:48 AM by Manni »

Manni

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Basic: Preparation
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 07:27:08 AM »
Based on my first attempts to use the V11 1.10 of the software and experience on previous versions, here is my advice for preparation. I'll update as others contribute and we get more experience on the process.

General
  • Read the JVC Autocal manual (linked in post #2). :)  It is actually fairly good, it covers the basics and I'm not going to repeat it or rephrase it.
  • Make sure that you have upgraded the f/w of your PJ to v2.01 or later (linked in post #2). V1.10 of the Autocal software needs this f/w, and it's not recommended to use an earlier version of the software due to various bugs.
  • If you have any problem, please read the FAQ/Troubleshooting (linked in post #2) before posting, as the most common problems and solutions are referenced there, and the list is regularly updated.
  • Make sure that you select a folder in the JVC settings to easily find your calibration backups. Every time you save a calibration, the software produces a backup of the previous state.
  • Whenever you save your first calibration, the software save a .INIT file that contains the factory state of the calibration tables for your projector. Restoring this .INIT file is the *only* way to revert the projector to that state. Restoring to factory settings in the service menu of the projector only  restore user settings, it doesn't restore factory calibration tables. So please make sure that you back it up in a safe place, so that you can always revert to it if necessary. A new owner might also ask for it if/when you sell the projector later.
  • If you're using the Spyder 5 for color calibration (gamut and white point), make sure that you *do* select the correct screen type in the JVC installation menu after calibration (see link in post #2 and the projector's user manual). The Spyder 5 reads off the lens, therefore it doesn't take the screen into account. If you don't select the correct screen type after the autocal, you will either have an inaccurate calibration if your screen isn't color neutral, or you will have to make more corrections than necessary after the autocal when using another meter, especially for the RGB balance, which will likely reduce your brightness at 100% white. Not somehting you want, especially for HDR.
  • If you're using the i1pro2 for the color calibration, do *not* set the screen type after calibration, and leave it disabled, because the screen is already taken into account by the i1pro2, which should be facing the screen during the Autocal. Using the screen type in that case would make the calibration incorrect, as it would apply a double correction, which would again lead to unnecessary further corrections if using another software for fine-tuning after the Autocal.
  • Make sure that the DI is disabled (the Autocal doesn't work with the DI, which is a good thing as you always want to disable the DI when calibrating).
  • Any user settings apart from lamp mode, filter type (linked to the selected color profile) and iris aperture are not taken into account during calibration, but they are taken into account during the log, especially at the end. As a result, screen type, gains, offsets and gamma corrections are *not* taken into account during the autocal, but *are* applied during the log. Also, the Autocal always considers that the gamma reference is 2.2, so the green (target) line is always showing a 2.2 target. For these reasons, I highly recommend that you reset the gains/offsets in all cases before running the autocal, and select a 2.2 gamma for an SDR calibration. That way, you'll be able to see if, according to itself, the Spyder5 reads a good calibration or not. The post-cal gamma should be a straight white line covering the reference/target green line, and all the color temp readings should be very close to D65. If you use any settings that are different, you won't be able to know precisely if the calibration went well, and you will wonder why your post-cal gamma isn't following the green line, and/or why all the color temp readings are not at D65.
  • As the autocal corrects all the gamma curves for the selected calibration (and all calibrations if you select the reflect to all option instead of individual), selecting a 2.2 gamma during calibration and selecting any other gamma after calibration is absolutely fine. You can also adjust gains/offsets with a better meter after calibration, once you've validated that the calibration is fine according to the meter used during it.

Meter(s) connection and positioning
  • To connect the meters, make sure that the Spyder5 (recommended for gamma calibration) has its cover off (it splits in two and you have to take the cap off to reveal the lens, that has to face the projector). If you're using the i1pro2 (recommended for color calibration), make sure that it lies on its calibration plate when you select it. The software should detect it and do a white calibration after 10-20 seconds. Once the next screen shows up, you can take the i1pro2 off its plate and position it to read off the screen.
  • When positioning the meter, you want the meter icon on the computer screen to be within the positioning box. For the Spyder 5, facing the PJ lens, this means that it should be to the right of the positioning box, in order to maximise dark readings. For the i1pro2 or the Spyder X facing the screen, this means that it should be to the left of the positioning box. Personally, I wasn't able to achieve this with the i1pro2 [positioning it within the box] or the Spyder X, so I suspect a bug. I therefore suggest you position the i1pro2 at your usual distance. For me, that's 2-3 feet from the screen for the i1pro2 when using full patterns (see pictures and advanced tips below). It's around 1-2 feet for the Spyder X.
  • When positioning the Spyder 5 facing the PJ lens, you want the reflection from the Spyder lens to be slightly above or below the lens. With the Spyder 5, I prefer slightly above, but that might change. Make sure that you achieve this while also having the Spyder icon on screen to the right of the box, and the shadow on the screen at the centre. See pictures and advanced tips below.
  • When positioning the Spyder X facing the screen, follow the instructions on the software for the ideal distance.


Advanced tips
If you use more than one meter for calibration, and another software to check results, I recommend the following:

  • Make sure that your pattern generator (I use madTPG) is set to full screen patterns. The JVC Autocal software uses full screen patterns, and I've noticed that if you use smaller patterns it's more difficult to get results to match between the autocal and the external software.
  • Make sure that all the meters read the same area of the screen, so that any white/grey uniformity issue doesn't impact the readings. To achieve this, I first select the smallest possible pattern (2% for me) and use the aiming led of the Discus to position the Discus so that it reads the center of the pattern, hence the centre of the screen. Then I disable the LED and position the i1pro2 so that it reads the highest value, still using the smallest pattern. This makes the i1pro2 reading an area fairly similar to the Discus, at the centre of the screen. Finally, re-enable the aiming LED and I position the Spyder 5 so that the centre of its shadow covers the dot of the aiming light from the Discus. Once that's done, I disable the aiming LED and go back to full screen patterns. That way, I'm sure that all the meters read roughly the same area at the centre of the screen/lens, which makes it easier to compare results accurately between meters/software.
  • I used to match the FOV (field of view) of the meters and have the Discus at two feet and the i1pro2 at three feet from the screen. Now that I use full screen patterns and follow this procedure, I don't bother anymore and I put both on the same tripod, which makes the set-up much easier/faster.
  • I always create a new profile (I train the Discus to the i1pro2) at the beginning of a calibration unless it's a casual session, and I have a separate profile for each calibration, because there are significant differences for example when the filter is on or not, or when the lamp is high or low. I therefore have six meter profiles for the Discus: SDR rec-709 (low lamp, no filter), SDR BT2020 Low (P3 filter, low lamp), SDR BT2020 High (P3 filter, high lamp), SDR HDR low (no filter, low lamp) SDR HDR High (no filter, high lamp), and 3D (Discus without the glasses profiled to the i1pro2 with the glasses, which improves both the accuracy and reliability of the readings). You can train your meter without the glasses to itself with the glasses if you don't have a reference meter, it should greatly improve your results. Note that the Autocal doesn't support 3D calibration.
  • When profiling the Discus to the i1pro2, I use a trick to maximise the reliability/accuracy of the profile that can be applied to other meters. Before making the profile, I first enable the low light handler in the i1pro2 and set the trigger to 500nits, so that it's active for all measurements. It slows it down but it averages 10-30 readings for each measurement. I set the number of readings to the max of 30 samples. I do the same with the Discus and set it to high average and long integration exposure, which is its slower but most accurate mode, especially in low light, but it also helps with repeatability at high IREs on the JVCs. I then create the profile with both meters in their most accurate mode, which almost guarantees a valid profile. If you're struggling to get good readings, especially on blue or red from the i1pro2, try to open the iris fully, and possibly zoom the screen to a lower size for the profile generation. This will maximize brightness for the readings without making the matrix invalid. Once the profiling is done, I set both meters to their fast mode and I usually only use the Discus which is significantly faster, and far more reliable below 20% white. The only time when I set it to its slower mode is when reading black with the DI on, or when trying to get a stable reading over 75% white.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 04:18:27 AM by Manni »

Manni

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Basic: Calibration
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2018, 07:27:14 AM »
Assuming you've followed the preparation section above (hence have read the JVC Autocal manual linked in post #2 :) ), here are my main tips for the calibration process itself:

The tl;dnr version (when all goes well)

  • Select in the projector the user or factory mode you want to calibrate (SDR Rec-709, HDR10, etc)
  • Select in the software the type of calibration you want to run in settings (rightmost option in the main menu) as well as the number of steps for the gamma calibration.
  • Select the calibration option (leftmost option in the main menu)
  • Position the meter so that you maximise readings (see post above for details)
  • Run the autocal
  • Check the results
  • Go back to 1 and repeat for each type of calibration (gamma, color if you didn't choose gamma+color, for example because you use a different meter for each) and for each user or factory mode that you want to calibrate
  • If all went well and all looks good, enjoy your calibrated projector!
  • Otherwise, please read below as well as the FAQ/Troubleshooting section.
  • If you're still stuck, post in the thread...


General Tips (if you get stuck with plan A above, or would like to understand better/optimize the process)

  • Each calibration normally applies to all the user modes / presets using the same lamp and filter settings (for gamma) and lamp/filter/iris settings (for color) as those selected during the calibration. With previous versions, the CMD setting also made a difference, but it's not the case anymore. The filter setting is determined by the user mode and color profile selected.
  • For color calibration (gamut and white point), the iris settings are split in ranges. I haven't had the time to check yet with the new models/new software, but with older models you would cover all the ranges (if you wanted to) with four color calibrations with iris settings of 0, -4, -8 and -12. I used 0, -5, -10 and -15 as it was easier to remember and would calibrate the extreme points of the range, which is useful for calibrated brightness and contrast measurements.
  • When you run a gamma autocal, it applies to all the gamma curves for this calibration and all the calibrations sharing the same filter/lamp setting if you select the "individual" setting (see the option at lower right of the first attached picture). If you select "reflect to all", it will apply to all the gamma curves across all calibrations. "Individual" is more accurate for a specific calibration and makes sure you don't touch the gamma calibration for other calibrations sharing different filter/lamp settings, while "reflect to all" allows you to do a single gamma calibration and correct all the tables, at the expense of accuracy for the other calibrations.
  • When you run a color autocal, it applies to all the calibrations using the same iris range, filter and lamp settings. This means that all the color temp presets (6500K, 7500K, etc.) are corrected with one single color autocal. 
  • The old way (which is still preferable if you want to be able to change all the settings freely and still get a calibrated picture) is to calibrate gamma for all the filter/lamp combinations, and to calibrate color for the four ranges in each of the filter/lamp combinations. That was doable when we only had an SDR calibration, but now with HDR, SDR BT2020 etc, I find this entirely unmanageable. I also think it's a complete waste of time, given that if you care about accuracy, you'll have to do the whole thing again in 200-500 hours, when the calibrations will have shifted due to gamma droop and other niceties.
  • For this reason, what I suggest is to only calibrate the modes you are actually using, at the settings you are actually using. You will gain accuracy, and you will save a lot of time. In order to do this, I first set each user mode so that I get a little bit more brightness than I'm targeting, as it's not unusual to lose brightness after a calibration. I select around 60nits for my SDR calibration (that's iris -12, low lamp here), and I decide if I want to use the filter or not, and to use low lamp or high lamp for my HDR10 and SDR BT2020 calibration. I also decide if I want to privilege contrast or brightness to decide on the iris setting. You'll find my advice regarding this in the recommended settings. I end up with three main calibrations: SDR Rec-709 (user1, rec-709 color profile, gamma 2.4, low lamp, no filter, iris -12), SDR BT2020 (user2, BT2020 color profile, gamma 2.4, low lamp, with filter, iris 0) and HDR10 (user 4, BT2020 color profile, PQ gamma, low lamp, with filter, iris 0). I also use an SDR DCI-P3 calibration for madVR (user 3, DCI-P3 color profile, gamma 2.2, low lamp, with filter, iris 0).
  • I recommend choosing user modes to hold your calibrations whenever you can because they give you the widest possible choice of color profiles. Each factory mode has its own, limited subset, so all factory modes can't be used for all calibrations.
  • As you can see, I only need to run one gamma autocal for the SDR BT2020, the SDR-DCI-P3 and the HDR10 calibrations, as the only difference is the gamma curve or the color profile. All three use the same filter and lamp settings. Because they also use the same iris setting (fully open), it means that a single color calibration will also be enough. This means that with two gamma autocals (without filter, low lamp for rec-709, with filter, low lamp for all the other calibrations) and two color autocals (-12 for SDR rec-709, iris open for all the others), I cover all my needs, except 3D that has to be done manually.
  • There is no need to re-run an unnecessary gamma or color autocal in a different user or factory mode that shares the same settings re lamp, filter and iris, because you will simply erase the previous calibration.
  • For this reason, I usually try to start a session with my least important calibration (SDR rec-709, gamma then color), and I end it with my most important one (SDR DCI-P3, gamma then color). I know that all my calibrations should be done, but I'm sure that my most important one has not been erased if I got it wrong :).
  • Before doing any calibration, you need to let the PJ warm up for at least 30 minutes. See the link in post #2 that explains why. Otherwise, you won't get repeatable results. You should also let the PJ warm up for at least 15 minutes before any critical viewing, and 30 minutes is preferred too.
  • If you change the lamp mode (or select a calibration with a different lamp setting) at any point during a calibration session, you need to wait at least 10-15 minutes for the lamp to stabilize. This is true in both directions (low to high or high to low). If you don't do this, again results won't be repeatable or optimal. For this reason, it is recommended to do all the low lamp calibrations in the same session, make manual adjustments and verifications, then switch to high lamp, wait for 10-15min and do all the high lamp calibrations (or vice versa). Otherwise you'll either waste a lot of time, or you'll get inaccurate/unrepeatable results.
  • Once you have selected the calibration/user mode you want to autocal and have launched the Autocal software, make sure that you don't use the remote control but only use the software to change modes or settings, or you'll run into issues.
  • If you decide to run more than one color autocal for different iris positions, I suggest you do the gamma autocal with the iris in the most open position first. That way, you will maximise the low end readings and should be able to do all the color autocals without having to reposition the meter.
  • If at any point you move the meter, you have to make sure that it is still positioned optimally in the box on screen.
  • Similarly, if you change calibration mode and if that means a different lamp, filter or iris setting is applied, you probably have to move the meter to make sure that it is still optimally positioned, so you will have to go back to the meter positioning screen.
  • Make sure the DI is off. The autocal doesn't work when the dynamic iris is enabled.
  • You can safely ignore the screen size and viewing distance parameters, unless you use the environment settings described P.16 of the manual, which are supposed to be useful in a non dedicated living room (white walls, reflections, etc). I never got good results with these in a bat cave, probably because they are not needed. I never use them, so I can't recommend using them. However, I don't recommend against using them, as I heard that some people got good results, so feel free to experiment and report, especially if you have a non-dedicated room. Note that they require a Spyder 5 Pro or Elite. Although I do have a Pro, the Express is much cheaper (usually) and works just as well, as long as you don't plan to use the environment settings.


During calibration

  • I recommend to use the 33 steps settings for gamma with the Spyder 5 if you have the time. If this causes issues near black, then select a setting with less calibration points.
  • I recommend choosing gamma 2.2 (individual) and 6500K for the autocal, and I usually leave these with the default 0 values in the projector. That way I can get logs that are easily checked as no user setting is applied during the log and I don't have to remember to reset the settings before the autocal. Then after the calibration, I select custom 1 or custom 2 for color temp and gamma with the correct targets and I adjust the gains or gamma controls if necessary. The first screenshot attached below doesn't reflect this as I was playing around with the settings. The next screenshots showing the logs after calibration are for a gamma target of 2.2 and a color temp of 6500K.
  • If you have a Spyder 5 and an i1pro2 (see Which meter to use? for more details), I recommend using the Spyder5 for gamma (facing the lens) and the i1pro2 for color (facing the screen). If you only have the Spyder5, I recommend using it only for gamma. If you have a better meter (i1d3 at least), you can correct the white point after the autocal using another software. I don't advise using the CMS unless you know what you are doing and check saturations below 100% sat.
  • Obviously you select gamma (and the precision / number of steps) for a gamma autocal, color for a color Autocal (gamut + white balance), gamma + color if you want to run both at the same time with the same meter (usually a Spyder 5) and log if you just want to check the calibration as it is and not change anything.
  • Keep a close eye on the log, especially for gamma. You want to avoid readings with a value of zero, which can happen for the first gamma step with any of the colors. If any reading is zero, you need to get the meter closer to the PJ (Spyder 5) or to the screen (i1pro2, although using the i1pro2 for gamma calibration isn't really recommended).
  • Given that the most important gamuts are present in factory profiles (Rec-709, DCI-P3 and BT2020 with and without the filter) I don't really see the need for custom profiles, unless you want to use Rec-709 with the filter or DCI-P3 without the filter. When I find the time, I'll try to provide these if anyone is interested. At this stage I don't need them.
  • Of course custom color profiles can be used to correct the errors in the Spyder 5, but as you need another meter and another software to do this, I'll document it later, if anyone is interested. For now, using the i1pro2 for color works well for me (at least with my WCG calibration, I need to give the SDR rec-709 one another go) and is much simpler/faster.
  • If you have to switch your calibrating PC/laptop screen off during calibration in order to not pollute the measurements (I do), or if you would like to start a long process such as a gamma+color autocal or a 3D LUT and leave the room, it can be handy to use a remote control software. I use TeamViewer because it works on Mac, PC, iPad and iPhone and is free for personal use. Any other remote control software can do the trick. It allows you to follow the progress and even control various measurements while out of the room, which means more sunlight and less patterns. :)


« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 04:25:46 PM by Manni »

Manni

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Basic: Results and verification with another software
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2018, 07:27:20 AM »
Here are the results of the gamma (Spyder 5 Pro) and color (i1pro2) Autocal of my SDR WCG calibration (P3, gamma 2.2) that I use for madVR.

I made these measurements with Calman Ultimate, using the Discus profiled to my i1pro2, without making any manual changes before or after calibration. The results could be improved with manual tweaking, but I though it would be more interesting to provide the raw results, post autocal.

The before measurements show the out of the box state after around 165 hours. I had reset all my color temp, gamma manual corrections and no LUT was applied of course.

The after measurements show the improvements coming from a 33 steps gamma and a color autocal.

I think that it's very decent, given that you go from a max dE of 5.3 and average of 1.6 before calibration to a max of 2.2 and average of 0.9 with the Colorchecker SG after the gamma and color autocal.

Interesting points to note: the peak brightness improves slightly (116nits vs 115nits) and so does the contrast, as the black floor stays roughly the same. It's very marginal and mostly invisible, but it's better than the opposite.

Also the gamut cover marginally improves, from 97% to 98%. I'll take everything I can get! Red remains very slightly undersaturated at 100% sat, which shows a probable limitation of the native gamut (I'm already using the filter), although this might reach closer to 100% in high lamp, as it often the case. This is almost certainly invisible, given that not much content reaches the edge of the gamut and that all the saurations below 100% track fairly well.

However, the greyscale/gamma is not as good as what I'm used to with the RS500 and the V7 of the software, so hopefully there is some room for improvement, either in the software itself or in the way to use it. This was my first attempt, I'll edit the post as/if results improve.

I have posted in the advanced section measurements showing how a madVR 3D LUT can improve the results even further.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 10:05:16 AM by Manni »

Manni

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Basic: Troubleshooting
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2018, 07:27:55 AM »
NETWORKING/TALKING TO THE PJ
Issue: The Autocal can’t talk to the projector, or it used to work, but suddenly it’s not responding. When clicking the “CHECK” button in the settings to check for network communication, it fails.
Solution 1: there is another process accessing the projector network interface through IP control, for example iRule or similar from an iOS or Android phone/tablet. Make sure there is no other software/app trying to access the JVC at the same time.
Solution 2: the network module in the projector needs to be reset. To do this, switch the projector off. Wait for the fan to go off and for the red light to stop blinking. Unplug the projector from the wall. Wait for the red light to go off. Plug the PJ back. Switch it back on. The network interface should be working again.
Solution 3: the IP address of the PJ might have changed since your last session (you can check this with the connected devices list in your router). For this reason I recommend to either use a fixed IP address, or if you use DHCP to reserve the IP address of the projector in your router using the MAC address. That way, you can still use DHCP to detect new devices but the PJ will always be allocated the same IP address.
Solution 4: the ECO mode in the projector is switched on. Switch it OFF to enable the JVC Autocal to work.
Issue: "error in detecting the model"
Solution: this means that the Autocal can find the projector, but there is either a problem with the input signal (so check that) or it detects another projector (but a different model) at the specified IP address. So check that the IP address is correct and doesn't point to your other PJ, as it happened to me. The autocal reverted to the older IP address at least once, so even if you've changed the IP address, it's worth checking that it still is the correct one.

CALIBRATION
Issue: the software seems to be talking to the Spyder 5, but there is no reading.
Solution: there is a protective cap on the Spyder 5, it kind of splits in half and opens to reveal the lens. With the cap on, it can only read black :)
Issue: After a color calibration, the log doesn't show all the greyscale points near the target (D65). How is this possible?
Solution: This is normal. While the RGB settings (offsets, gains) as well as gamma adjustments (dark, picture tone, bright) and screen type settings are *not* taken into account during the autocal, they *are* taken into account during the log. So if you want the log to show what the meter is reading, make sure your reset the RGB settings as well as gamma adjustments before calibration. Otherwise there is no harm leaving them as they are, they won't impact on the autocal itself.
Issue: After a gamma calibration, the post-cal measurement (white line) doesn't follow the reference/target (green line).
Solution: this is because the reference (green line) is always 2.2. So if you choose any other gamma target, it will be up to you to decide whether it's okay or not, which is almost impossible. Because a gamma autocal corrects all the gamma curves for a given calibration (and for all calibrations if you select the replicate all option), it is therefore recommended to select a 2.2 gamma target for a gamma calibration, so that you can see in the log if it follows the target as expected, and then select the gamma curve that you want after the autocal, as it will have been corrected too (provided you don't change the iris / lamp or filter setting).
Question: How do I know what's saved in the bakup file? Is it incremental or is it a full snapshot of the projector's state (all calibrations)?
Answer: Each backup file contains a full snapshot of all the calibrations as saved after the last saved calibration. This is discussed in more details here.

METERS
Issue: the meter (Spyder 5 or i1pro/i1pro2) isn't detected by the JVC Autocal software
Solution: Whichever meter you use, you need the manufacturer's driver (Datacolor or X-rite) to be installed, not another third party (for example ArgyllCMS). Also, if the manufacturer's software loads a utility (Datacolor does), you have to prevent this from being loaded or it will conflict with the JVC Autocal when it tries to access the meter.
Issue: the i1pro2 is detected but can't be selected (meter not found)
Solution: the i1pro2 needs to be calibrated before use. The way the JVC Autocal does it isn't obvious. You have to put the i1pro2 on its calibrating plate (the one with the white tile) before selecting it. As soon as you have selected it in the software, you have to press the button on the i1pro2 to initiate a white calibration. The i1pro2 will flash its leds and the sofware will detect it. If you don't run this calibration step, the software will return a "meter not found" message after a few seconds.

VARIOUS
Issue: no input signal error message
Solution: the Autocal software needs a valid video input to the projector (1080p or 2160p, though due to some issue 1080p might be preferable with early versions of the software) even if you’re not calibrating, so for example to load a custom gamma curve to a custom gamma slot, or to import a custom colour profile. So you need to get a source to display something that is send to the projector, even if it’s only a menu. Otherwise the software doesn’t work.
Issue: USB drive not detected during f/w upgrade attempt
Solution: if you've followed the f/w upgrade instructions (FAT32 formatted, no other files on the drive, no folder or file name change), it could be your specific USB drive that isn't detected. It happened to me, and trying a different drive worked right away.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 06:22:09 AM by Manni »

Manni

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Basic: JVC HDR Auto-Tonemapping feature
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2018, 07:28:06 AM »
I'll report on JVC's new auto-tonemapping in more details when I've had a chance to spend some time with it. Based on the way it's supposed to work, it should be a significant improvement on previous models as it now takes into account the HDR metadata present in the content to adjust its curve according to each title. It seems to be the best OEM implementation to date for projectors, so kudos to JVC.

However, it relies on the presence of reliable metadata (which unfortunately can be wrong or missing, and I've not tested how good JVC's fallback is in that case). [EDIT: when there is no metadata, if you adjust the settings manually the PJ will remember these settings for all titles without metadata]. So I would expect its results to be incomparably better than on previous models not using custom curves, similar to UB820/Oppo 203/205, possibly on a par with older models using three good custom curves (and by this I mean really custom, not made by someone else who doesn't know the exact set-up, which includes my own downloadable curves and others) switched automatically by a Vertex/Maestro or a Radiance Pro, but inferior to good dynamic tonemapping relying on measuring each frame instead of using the metadata (MadVR, possibly the Radiance Pro when their tonamapping becomes dynamic). Again, that's just based on how it should work, not on actual observation (yet).

This being said, it's a huge improvement for the end user who doesn't want to mess with a HTPC, a Radiance Pro or custom curves, so let's thank JVC for this and by all means use it and adjust brightness to taste with the slider.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 12:45:34 AM by Manni »

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Advanced: Main changes in V11 from previous versions
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2018, 07:28:13 AM »
[PRELIMINARY]

Main changes from V5:
  • The 12 points gamma manual control are accessible in the software, it's the third option from the left in the main menu.
  • No environment menu anymore, just a screen adjust setting in the installation menu on the projector

Main changes from V6/V7:
  • No support for Spyder 4 models.
  • Support for Spyder 5 and i1pro2.
  • A "reflect to all" option that allows to copy a gamma calibration to all modes irrespective of filter, lamp, iris and CMD settings. Whether it's a "dumb" copy or whether it makes adjustments remains to be seen, but it's a nice option to have. Otherwise, the gamma calibration applies only to the mode with the same lamp and filter settings.
  • The CMD setting doesn't influence the calibration, so you don't have to calibrate CMD on/off separately for color. Only the aperture, lamp power and filter settings determine whether a separate color calibration is necessary or not.

Some of the above features (such as support for i1pro2) have been implemented on recent models, but I haven’t used them personally and haven’t kept track of the changes. V11 is the first version I use after V7.

As you'll see in the manual (see link in post #2), not many differences in the software itself, but I expect many differences to optimize the calibration process as the picture modes will be different, and of course the meters (Spyder 5 and i1pro 2), while already supported with the latest versions of the eshift models, are also different compared to those we used with the RSx00 in the old calibration thread (Spyder 4 on V6 and Spyder 5 on V7 only). I have both a Spyder 5 Pro and an i1pro 2 (as well as a Discus) so I plan to explore the best way to use each meter in order to get the best results, with or without additional calibration software and 3D LUTs.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 04:03:12 AM by Manni »

Manni

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Advanced: Detailed Brightness Measurements
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2018, 07:28:19 AM »
All these brightness measurements are taken with my Minolta T10, at the screen, facing the lens.

The screen is a Carada BW 16/9 88" diag with a nominal effective gain (advertised 1.3). Throw distance is 3.6m, which I believe is around mid-throw.

I attach two files, the measurements with some details, and my notes describing each measured mode and giving a few more observations. Please read the notes before commenting :) 

Important: I’ve taken all these measurements with the panel zoomed to 16/9.

I don’t really want to have to upscale all my content to 4K (4096x2160) and prefer to use UHD (3840x2160) as it's the native resolution of most of the content I watch.

Brightness should be higher for those who can/want to use the full 17/9 panel.

I plan to zoom to the native panel and measure the difference when I find the time.


Overall my unit measures close to the specs as far as I can see, and higher than my rs500 in the same set-up, at least in raw/max brightness.

The only area where I think it might be on the low side is regarding gamut cover. As explained in the recommended settings, I would expect a typical unit to cover above 100% of P3 with the filter and around 90% of P3 without. But 20% of brightness loss is in the average from what I can read. Some report 10%, some 25%. What's always unclear is if people report how much you lose with the filter, or how much you gain without, so I report both: 20% loss with the filter, 25% gain without. it would be nice if everyone could do the same. :) 


[Edit: I measured low lamp because that's what I use myself, but it looks like in high lamp, the brightness cut with the filter is only 10% (15% gain without), for roughly the same difference in gamut cover (85% without the filter vs 100% with). So it looks like the P3 filter cuts less light in high lamp than in low lamp, but also reduces contrast a bit (24,000:1 vs 30,000:1 in BT2020)]. This might explain why the numbers are all over the place: depending on whether they report the cut or the gain, and whether this is measured in low lamp or high lamp, the difference between filter/no filter can go from 10% to 25%! :)

Oh, one last thing: please ignore the two lines at the top with "%loss". That's how I track the brightness loss for my bulb with the two modes I use most, but of course these being the initial measurements (my starting point) there is no loss and the numbers are the same.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 11:12:39 AM by Manni »

Manni

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Advanced: Detailed Contrast Measurements
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2018, 07:28:25 AM »
All the attached on/off contrast measurements are taken with my Minolta T10, about 22” from the lens, on a tripod. The room is a fully dedicated bat loft, entirely black-velvet covered (with black carpet on the floor), 100% light controlled (black out blind, no LEDs from equipment etc). It's a black pit with zero ambient nits when the PJ is off (provided the power LED is covered with tape). When measuring contrast, the only source of light comes from the PJ lens when on (and the side vents, but thanks to their angle, none of that light hits the screen). I anticipate that it might influence ANSI contrast measurements off the lens though.

Otherwise light reflection from the screen, the seats and the side of a shelf when not covered can be an issue for measuring ANSI contrast, but not with on/off measurements. I used madTPG as a pattern generator using Calman as it’s convenient and that’s my main source anyway (my HTPC with MadVR, not patterns in Calman :)  ), so at least I’m sure that what I measure is what I watch. I have triple checked levels and everything, so there shouldn’t be any issue with this. In the past I used the JVC internal patterns for contrast measurements, but sadly it’s not possible anymore to control them with Calman.

This specific unit has a very slight bright corner in the lower left, so averaging measurements taken over the whole panel would no doubt lower the values. I don't find it a problem in normal viewing, and I'm very sensitive to bright corners. Measurements for this session were taken for the center of the panel only.

I didn’t move the meter for all the measurements as its range was enough to cover everything, given that the black floor with the DI didn’t go very low. Ideally, I’d have wanted to get a bit closer to the lens to lower the margin of error at the low end (I’m not happy with 0.04 lux for the lowest measurement, because we’re getting near the limit and a single significant digit change there makes a huge difference in the ratio) but it’s good enough for a first attempt. I usually measure on slow and wait at least 10-15 seconds for the reading to stabilize. If I find a way to place the tripod (possibly a different one) a bit closer to the lens, I might take another round. Overall I’m confident that these results are accurate (if not as far as their absolute readings, at least within the capability of the meter) because they are within 5% of those taken by the Discus in Calman (see below).

I’ve measured the most important mode for me, which is DCI-P3 with the filter in low lamp, as that's what I use with MadVR to tonemap HDR content (my UHD Blurays) to SDR on my HTPC. Note that with a consumer source you should only use a Rec-709 or BT2020 calibration, but that's a different subject. I also took a few measurements from Max Bright to get as close as possible to the specs.

A few more things to note:
As explained in the recommended settings, at least on my unit the default setting of zero for brightness was raising the black floor significantly and killing on/off and dynamic contrast. I had a brightness setting of -3 for the whole session. I know it’s obvious but please check your black floor before measuring contrast on these or you might get caught by this out of habit, as in my experience setting brightness to zero (using video levels / HDMI standard) does no raise the black floor on older models. On the rs500, I even had to raise brightness to +1 to improve shadow detail, and even that didn’t raise the black floor. So you're warned!

As you’ll see in the calibration measurements, once I’ve measured my baseline with the T10, I use my Discus trained to the i1pro2 to measure both contrast and brightness in Calman, as the discus can relatively accurately read black, even with the DI, provided a black calibration was done less than 10 minutes ago and that it’s set to high average / long integration mode. Usually the Discus is within 5% of the T10 for contrast, on the conservative side. For brightness, it’s within 10% when looking at nits numbers. That’s good enough for me given the added convenience. [Edit 15-02-19: I add some measurement of Max Bright (low and high lamp, iris open, both manual and auto2) taken with the Discus in Calman so you can compare the low lamp readings with the T10. They are almost identical for native (33,000:1) and fairly close for dynamic (200,000:1 for the Discus vs 235,000:1 for the T10). I also add measurements for BT2020 and HDR iris open (both manual and Auto2) showing that the filter cuts less light in high lamp than in low lamp and that HDR cuts some contrast as well as some saturation]

If you do measure dynamic contrast in an automated way using a calibration software and a meter able to read black reliably off the screen with a JVC (so not an i1pro2 or an i1displayPro/i1d3/C6), make sure that you increase the pattern delay. I raised my default 0.25s delay to 5s because the DI takes about 4s to fully close, which is a lot slower than on the older models (at least twice). So you want to give the time to get the blackest off reading.

Also the DI doesn’t close down as much as with the older models, so the dynamic contrast on this RS2000 isn’t as high as on my RS500, where I would get up to 500,000:1 and more dynamic. Another point of comparison, in this same DCI-P3 mode (low lamp, iris fully open, filter on), I would get close to 40,000:1 native on/of with the rs500. I get 30,000:1 on/off with the rs2000, which isn't too bad and again kind of correlates with the specs (about 30% less native on/off). Black floor is higher though because I had 100nits with the rs500 (at 3,000 hours) and I'm getting 120nits with the RS2000 (new lamp). The panel size (16/9 vs 17/9) might also play a part in this difference, as I didn't use the full panel for these measurements, like with the brightness measurements.

So that’s my main issue with contrast on this unit. I think my native is fairly close to specs given that I’m at mid-throw, it looks like the 80,000:1 max native should be met in long throw (I’m around 70,000:1 native in max bright, which I believe is the mode used to get to the specs), but the slow speed of the dynamic iris and the more open fully closed position leads to ok but not great dynamic contrast numbers, up to 235,000:1 again in max bright, with a multiplier above 7.

I have no idea how they achieve the 800,000:1 dynamic specs for the rs2000, as this would mean a multiplier of 10 on the manual iris fully closed specs, which has the lowest multiplier. Unless they mix one number from one mode with another from another mode. For example, if I calculate the on/off using the brightest on (23,600 lux max bright) and the dimmest off (0.04 lux low lamp auto2), then I get 590,000:1, which would be close to the specs at mid-throw, and would tally with a multiplier of 10 applied to my native with the iris fully closed. But I sure hope that this is not what JVC does to achieve this 800,000:1 dynamic contrast, as it wouldn't make sense. Anyone knows, please pitch in.

As with the older models, using auto1 or auto2 doesn’t make any difference regarding contrast. They only differ in the degree of aggressiveness of the gamma processing in each mode, auto1 being more aggressive than auto2. I measured both though to give you an idea of the repeatability of the T10, but I only use auto2 so in the future I’ll probably only mention/measure auto2.

Also as with older models, the highest native contrast is obtained with the manual iris fully closed, and the highest dynamic contrast with the iris fully open. The dynamic iris, from a contrast point of view, only changes the black (off), the peak (on) is defined by the manual iris setting and should remain roughly the same. You’ll see more measurements between low lamp and high lamp in the calibration measurements, but as expected there isn’t big difference between high lamp and low lamp contrast wise. The filter, on the other hand, seems to have more of an impact.

I still see some gamma artifacts in content that used to cause gamma artifacts in the rs500 (see recommended settings for details).

So as I noted in my suggestions to JVC at the beginning of the thread and in recommended settings, I really hope that if JVC can’t do better regarding gamma artifacts, they will give us an auto 3 mode that would have zero gamma manipulation and would only kick in on fade to black. I would want it faster (at least twice) and closing down at far down as possible, ideally down to where the older models did, which is much closer, so that we can get a better fade to black, especially in HDR where we need it most due to the raised black floor with the iris fully open.

ANSI contrast (added on March 09, 2019):

I measured ANSI contrast (Greg Rogers modified) at the lens as 206:1 (iris fully open, so max for ANSI) at 110 hours last week. It's on the low side, but seems to be close to what others (Ekki, Chad B) have measured on various units. I triple checked because I was a bit disappointed, especially following rumours at CEDIA of 50% improvements on ANSI contrast compared to eshift models, but that's as good as it gets here, with this RS2000 unit.

Measurements have in fact improved, I measured only 190:1 at 30 hours, and waited until the unit settled at 110 hours to retake measurements. I haven't seen any measurement significantly above 200:1 on any of the new models.

This wasn't with a "tube" but with a black velvet tent stopping any light to get to the screen and back. I was in full ninja suit, including black gloves (yes, not wearing black gloves does impact ANSI contrast measurements negatively, especially at the lens). The T10 was around 18" from the lens for these ANSI contrast measurements to maximize the readings. Any closer and the measurements would go down due to the light from the white squares polluting the sensor during black readings. To compare, my rs500 measured 247:1 when new in the same room and same position.

I measured around 194:1 ANSI for the RS2000 at the screen, which confirms the excellent performance of my bat loft as it's a small hit (around 5%) from the room compared to the reading at the lens.

I measured quickly a single square with the iris fully closed, both at the lens and at the screen, to show the delta (that's the results on the left). The hit when closing the iris is small, which is good news. This is a single square (I selected one in the mid-range of my ANSI measurements, neither the lowest nor the highest), so just an indication really.

Full results (on/off and ANSI contrast measurements) in the attached updated chart.

[EDIT: please don't pay attention to the 2% error accuracy margins, they are not relevant for the Minolta T10].
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 11:15:43 AM by Manni »

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