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JVC DLA-RS1000/N5 & RS2000/NX7 Owners Thread

AVSMike

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Re: JVC DLA-RS1000/N5 & RS2000/NX7 Owners Thread
« Reply #165 on: March 13, 2019, 10:40:02 AM »
Anybody that is wanting the free spare lamp, had better be ordering before end of this month.
Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Carada, Da-Lite, Vutec, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan, Def Tech, RBH, M&K and many other brands.

Re: JVC DLA-RS1000/N5 & RS2000/NX7 Owners Thread
« Reply #166 on: March 14, 2019, 05:15:12 AM »
Anybody that is wanting the free spare lamp, had better be ordering before end of this month.
To get the free lamp you have order by 3/31/19 and mail in the original  projector UPC barcode from the box no later than 4/30/19. With them  still working on  filling pre-orders would you expect projectors ordered in the next 2 weeks to be delivered before 4/29? 

AVSMike

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Re: JVC DLA-RS1000/N5 & RS2000/NX7 Owners Thread
« Reply #167 on: March 14, 2019, 05:53:55 AM »
To get the free lamp you have order by 3/31/19 and mail in the original  projector UPC barcode from the box no later than 4/30/19. With them  still working on  filling pre-orders would you expect projectors ordered in the next 2 weeks to be delivered before 4/29?
Yes and If not delivered by then, you would still get the free lamp, but only if ordered by end of March.
Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Carada, Da-Lite, Vutec, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan, Def Tech, RBH, M&K and many other brands.

AVSCraig

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New JVC Color Profiles for New JVC Projectors
« Reply #169 on: March 16, 2019, 01:05:56 PM »
I posed these questions on the other forum, but thought I'd do here as well, to pick the brains available here.  I'm trying to grasp what these new Panasonic-specific "Color Profiles" bring to the table, as well as exactly what they are, and what they do.

Previous to the new JVC Firmware update, bringing the Panasonic specific color profiles, if you were using the UB820/UB9000, you had 2 main choices (actually more, if you include turning the HDR Optimizer On or Off, but they're not important relative to the questions I'm asking):

1. Output HDR from the Panasonic, set the JVC Color Profile to HDR, (or BT2020 if you want to use the filter), and Gamma to HDR(PQ).

The Tone-Mapping takes place in the JVC's Gamma adjustments in the HDR(PQ) curve, with a slider to tweak to a given screen/room/preference (and also the Panasonic when choosing the appropriate Display type for 350 or 500 nits, but let's also ignore that for the purposes of understanding the basics here).

2. Output SDR-BT2020 from the Panasonic, set the JVC Color Profile to HDR, (or BT2020 if you want to use the filter), and Gamma to 2.2.

The Tone-Mapping takes place in the Panasonic, and is based on seeing a plain Gamma of 2.2 in the Projector. The Projector supplies a Color Profile, but there is nothing "HDR-like" in its Gamma, since it's plain old 2.2


Now, we have new Panasonic-specific Color Profiles in the JVC's, but the Gamma is still being set to 2.2. As Mike pointed out in the other thread, the Panasonic will be doing the Tone-Mapping, and the JVC is still using it's 'regular' Gamma of 2.2, so not doing anything "HDR-like" at all.

The question then is how is this new approach different from Option 2 above, where the Panasonic is outputting SDR-BT2020? Doesn't it have to be doing this, since the JVC is still set to Gamma 2.2, as it has to be in that situation??


It has been my understanding that the Color Profile in the JVC is addressing color gamut and color space type issues (with WCG being one dimension of UHD content), while Gamma addresses the HDR component of UHD content. If that is the case, then it seems that the new Color Profiles only operate to impact color gamut and color space, and *not* the HDR component (which is a Gamma function).

Further, how are these new Color Profiles different from the current HDR (no filter) and BT2020 (filter in use)??


There may not be sufficient data or knowledge of these functions to provide an answer yet, but I would really like to understand how Tone-mapping is being handled in this new set-up, if the JVC is set to 2.2, whether or not the Panasonic outputting HDR or SDR, and if/how this is different from the SDR-2020 currently available with these Panasonic players.

Thanks!

AVSMike

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Re: New JVC Color Profiles for New JVC Projectors
« Reply #170 on: March 16, 2019, 02:17:01 PM »
I posed these questions on the other forum, but thought I'd do here as well, to pick the brains available here.  I'm trying to grasp what these new Panasonic-specific "Color Profiles" bring to the table, as well as exactly what they are, and what they do.

Previous to the new JVC Firmware update, bringing the Panasonic specific color profiles, if you were using the UB820/UB9000, you had 2 main choices (actually more, if you include turning the HDR Optimizer On or Off, but they're not important relative to the questions I'm asking):

1. Output HDR from the Panasonic, set the JVC Color Profile to HDR, (or BT2020 if you want to use the filter), and Gamma to HDR(PQ).

The Tone-Mapping takes place in the JVC's Gamma adjustments in the HDR(PQ) curve, with a slider to tweak to a given screen/room/preference (and also the Panasonic when choosing the appropriate Display type for 350 or 500 nits, but let's also ignore that for the purposes of understanding the basics here).

2. Output SDR-BT2020 from the Panasonic, set the JVC Color Profile to HDR, (or BT2020 if you want to use the filter), and Gamma to 2.2.

The Tone-Mapping takes place in the Panasonic, and is based on seeing a plain Gamma of 2.2 in the Projector. The Projector supplies a Color Profile, but there is nothing "HDR-like" in its Gamma, since it's plain old 2.2


Now, we have new Panasonic-specific Color Profiles in the JVC's, but the Gamma is still being set to 2.2. As Mike pointed out in the other thread, the Panasonic will be doing the Tone-Mapping, and the JVC is still using it's 'regular' Gamma of 2.2, so not doing anything "HDR-like" at all.

The question then is how is this new approach different from Option 2 above, where the Panasonic is outputting SDR-BT2020? Doesn't it have to be doing this, since the JVC is still set to Gamma 2.2, as it has to be in that situation??


It has been my understanding that the Color Profile in the JVC is addressing color gamut and color space type issues (with WCG being one dimension of UHD content), while Gamma addresses the HDR component of UHD content. If that is the case, then it seems that the new Color Profiles only operate to impact color gamut and color space, and *not* the HDR component (which is a Gamma function).

Further, how are these new Color Profiles different from the current HDR (no filter) and BT2020 (filter in use)??


There may not be sufficient data or knowledge of these functions to provide an answer yet, but I would really like to understand how Tone-mapping is being handled in this new set-up, if the JVC is set to 2.2, whether or not the Panasonic outputting HDR or SDR, and if/how this is different from the SDR-2020 currently available with these Panasonic players.

Thanks!
See attached for instructions.
Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Carada, Da-Lite, Vutec, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan, Def Tech, RBH, M&K and many other brands.

Re: New JVC Color Profiles for New JVC Projectors
« Reply #171 on: March 16, 2019, 03:01:53 PM »
See attached for instructions.
Very interesting, Mike - thanks for the document.

docrog and I had a phone discussion about this earlier today, and in trying to understand this, we came up with the idea that somehow gamma adjustments were part of these new Color Profiles.  On the surface, this almost seemed like an oxymoron, since in my conventional understanding, Color Profiles handled color gamut/color space issues, which was distinct from Gamma adjustments, which handled the HDR dimension to UHD content.

But here is a quote from the document you posted:

Quote
The HDR gamma data is reflected inside the above Projector Color Profiles. As a result, the HDR Gamma mode is not used.

So it appears we were on the right track.

Is anybody familiar with just what's going on here?  How are gamma adjustments made inside a Color Profile?

Interesting stuff!  Thanks again, Mike.


ETA:

Hopefully, this will also work properly with the 500 nit Display option on the UB-820 player as well.  But it is worrisome that yet another document on this topic only references the UB-9000.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 03:06:17 PM by DLCPhoto »

Manni

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Re: New JVC Color Profiles for New JVC Projectors
« Reply #172 on: March 16, 2019, 03:10:12 PM »
Is anybody familiar with just what's going on here?  How are gamma adjustments made inside a Color Profile?
You can specify a gamma curve (1.8 to 2.6, default 2.2) when you create a colour profile, along with the gamut primaries and white point coordinates. See attached.
Only a power gamma curve though, PQ is not selectable, at least not in the JVC Autocal software.

Re: New JVC Color Profiles for New JVC Projectors
« Reply #173 on: March 16, 2019, 03:19:10 PM »
You can specify a gamma curve (1.8 to 2.6, default 2.2) when you create a colour profile, along with the gamut primaries and white point coordinates. See attached.
Only a power gamma curve though, PQ is not selectable, at least not in the JVC Autocal software.
Very interesting, Manni - thanks!

Since apparently the new Color Profiles are implementing some type of HDR(PQ) Gamma Curve to handle HDR Tone-Mapping, this may represent a new development for these projectors?  So even though it's not possible with JVC Autocal, they apparently have implemented it directly?

Have you checked to see if this limitation on Gamma selection is still present in the new version of Autocal they just released?

Curiouser and curiouser...

Manni

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Re: JVC DLA-RS1000/N5 & RS2000/NX7 Owners Thread
« Reply #174 on: March 16, 2019, 03:32:10 PM »

Have you checked to see if this limitation on Gamma selection is still present in the new version of Autocal they just released?


That screenshot was from the new JVC Autocal released yesterday :)

There is no way to select PQ when creating a profile in the new version either.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 03:34:23 PM by Manni »

Re: JVC DLA-RS1000/N5 & RS2000/NX7 Owners Thread
« Reply #175 on: March 16, 2019, 07:03:56 PM »
I'm a bit confused now but at least feel I'm in the right forum. So what is this gamma 2.2 within the Panasonic/JVC colorspace? I thought if you selected the HL or Basic Panasonic colorspace with the JVC you were done? 

Re: JVC DLA-RS1000/N5 & RS2000/NX7 Owners Thread
« Reply #176 on: March 16, 2019, 07:07:47 PM »
I'd like to give a quick thanks to those of you that helped me find this new forum. Hopefully better than the AVS BS that we've had to put up with.:) Although this confirmation with the letters and question is getting old.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 07:09:58 PM by Clark Burk »

Re: JVC DLA-RS1000/N5 & RS2000/NX7 Owners Thread
« Reply #177 on: March 16, 2019, 07:18:05 PM »
I'd like to know what Mike meant in the instructions:
"The HDR gamma data is reflected inside the above Projector Color Profiles. As a result, the HDR Gamma mode is not used.  Instead, Set “Color Temp.” to “6500K” (P. 48) and “Gamma” to “2.2” (P. 37)"....
so do we have to manually change settings within the user mode?

Manni

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Re: JVC DLA-RS1000/N5 & RS2000/NX7 Owners Thread
« Reply #178 on: March 17, 2019, 04:11:43 AM »
Hi Clark,

I'm glad you found us :)

I can't help further with the UB820/UB9000 as I have neither, but I'm sure Mike will answer soon.

My understanding is that the player is simply tonemapping PQ HDR to gamma 2.2 and therefore expects a profile that reflects /enforces this to make sure that the result is correct, but I have no way to test this.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 04:15:11 AM by Manni »

AVSCraig

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Re: JVC DLA-RS1000/N5 & RS2000/NX7 Owners Thread
« Reply #179 on: March 17, 2019, 11:57:47 AM »
I'd like to give a quick thanks to those of you that helped me find this new forum. Hopefully better than the AVS BS that we've had to put up with.:) Although this confirmation with the letters and question is getting old.
The confirmation will end after a few posts - don't worry. 
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:30am - 4:30pm Pacific 
www.avscience.com  craig@avscience.com
We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
Twitter - @AVS_Craig

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