JVC Autocal Software V12 calibration for 2019 RS1000/RS2000/RS3000/NX5/NX7/NX9

[jj-34]

The lack of environmental sensor is in the Spyder software not hardware. All three meters are identical in hardware. We tested an Express bought meter on a Mac that had the Elite software installed and it activated the sensor with no issues. That is why you can upgrade an Express bought meter to the Elite by just upgrading the software (key). And the best part is this...the software is also identical and just the features are "unlocked" when you purchase the upgrade "key".

Very interesting, not having the express myself I did not realize that it's only the software that can unlock the environment capability.
Anybody tried the Autocal environment option with a true Spyder 5 Express puck ?  What about the driver ?

[Killroy™]

Very interesting, not having the express myself I did not realize that it's only the software that can unlock the environment capability.
Anybody tried the Autocal environment option with a true Spyder 5 Express puck ?  What about the driver ?

Haven't tried it with Autocal since I have the Pro version, but in my old office we proved that the drivers are exactly the same for all three. They were interchangeable. And we even used Express meters on Macs that only had the Elite software installed. We began to buy Express meters used on ebay and then just paying for the upgrades to Elite (basically just a key) and we stocked our entire editing room for same price we would have paid for half of the meters. Granted it would have been a bit cheaper but we got one real bad Express meter so we had to replace it.

[jj-34]

I am still puzzled as I read several times that the environment option of Autocal does not work with the spyder 5 express, if the puck and the driver are really the same then that should not be true, Autocal should be able to work totally. The unlocking can only be valid within the Datacolor software. 

[Killroy™]

I am still puzzled as I read several times that the environment option of Autocal does not work with the spyder 5 express, if the puck and the driver are really the same then that should not be true, Autocal should be able to work totally. The unlocking can only be valid within the Datacolor software.

Like I said, in theory...using Datacolor software there is no difference between the three in hardware or driver. It is only software. I have never been able to verify it since I kept my Pro version and had that installed. Now, maybe when you install the Datacolor software to install the driver there is a lock enabled to that feature. The only way to verify it would be to test it with a PC using Autocal after you installed a Pro/Elite version and then plugging in an Express meter. And then testing a different PC that only installed an Express meter and then plugging in a Pro/Elite meter and see if the feature is shut-down. If it works with an Express on a Pro/Elite install then there is no lock. But if the Pro/Elite does NOT work on an Express install then there is a driver/software lock at the time of install.

All I know is that on a PC/Mac when using only the Datacolor software the only difference is the key at the time of install or the key used at the time you upgrade up. We used more than a dozen Express meters on Elite keys when we upgraded them.

[CyberPaul]

No comment on my above post? https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=1850.msg14484#msg14484
Nobody is using SpyderX? Have you had different experiences? Can you please post your logs?

[dsm1212]

I read through a bunch here, but not everything so I apologize. The questions I have are:

1. Gamma is tied to lamp/filter but I have an RS1000 with no filter. So I need exactly two gamma calibrations. One with Low lamp and one with High lamp. Correct?

2. If I do a spyderx pro calibration for color can I tell from looking at the results before I save if it is any good? Like a major gaff on the chart or something that is obvious?

3. The quote from the doc mentioned by others seems to indicate that frame adapt will be affected by calibration, you just have to use a different picture mode with matching lamp/filter for gamma. Is that still the current belief?

4. Other than the subjective visual, is there any definitive way to tell if a given menu selection is picking up my calibrated settings?

thanks!

[CyberPaul]

I read through a bunch here, but not everything so I apologize. The questions I have are:

1. Gamma is tied to lamp/filter but I have an RS1000 with no filter. So I need exactly two gamma calibrations. One with Low lamp and one with High lamp. Correct?

2. If I do a spyderx pro calibration for color can I tell from looking at the results before I save if it is any good? Like a major gaff on the chart or something that is obvious?

3. The quote from the doc mentioned by others seems to indicate that frame adapt will be affected by calibration, you just have to use a different picture mode with matching lamp/filter for gamma. Is that still the current belief?

4. Other than the subjective visual, is there any definitive way to tell if a given menu selection is picking up my calibrated settings?

thanks!

1. Correct 
2. Not easy. If you own a reliable meter, you could check the gamut before and see if gamut shown after autocal is indicating a similar status. In my case I see a very bad green after autocal that is not reflecting what I get with ColorMunki and i1d3 so I know that it is wrong.
3. it is the official voice and we didn’t find elements that contradict it
4. Unfortunately not

[dsm1212]

1. Correct
2. Not easy. If you own a reliable meter, you could check the gamut before and see if gamut shown after autocal is indicating a similar status. In my case I see a very bad green after autocal that is not reflecting what I get with ColorMunki and i1d3 so I know that it is wrong.
3. it is the official voice and we didn’t find elements that contradict it
4. Unfortunately not

Thanks!

[dsm1212]

I haven't tried the spyderx color calibration yet, but I notice there are datacolor instructions for using their software with a projector. I'm thinking these could be important even with the jvc software for getting a good reading. See below. So gamma 2.2, brightness max, iris wide open. I think white balance 6500k or maybe some other setting. Comments?

steve

• Launch the Spyder5ELITE or even the Spyder5ELITE+ software and select “Projector” via the “Display Type” menu.
• In the Calibration Settings window select Gamma 2.2, native White Point (Do Not Adjust – Recommended) and for the Brightness also “Do Not Adjust – Recommended”.
  Alternatively you can also select a White Point of 6500 Kelvin, but be aware that this will reduce your front projector’s brightness, because one or two color channels will be clipped after the white point correction.
• In the “Advanced Settings” select the Gray Balance Calibration “Off – Recommended”, which is required for front projectors that uses the DLP technology. On front projectors that using a different technology you can also select the option “Faster”.
• Mount your Spyder5ELITE at your tripod and place the sensor at a distance of 30 cm / 12 inches in front of the screen. The senor’s honeycomb filter has to face towards the screen. The Spyder5ELITE software compensates the shadow the Spyder5ELITE create now on the screen.
• Keep your room pitch dark during the calibration process to get the best results.

 

[Killroy™]

I haven't tried the spyderx color calibration yet, but I notice there are datacolor instructions for using their software with a projector. I'm thinking these could be important even with the jvc software for getting a good reading. See below. So gamma 2.2, brightness max, iris wide open. I think white balance 6500k or maybe some other setting. Comments?

steve

• Launch the Spyder5ELITE or even the Spyder5ELITE+ software and select “Projector” via the “Display Type” menu.
• In the Calibration Settings window select Gamma 2.2, native White Point (Do Not Adjust – Recommended) and for the Brightness also “Do Not Adjust – Recommended”.
  Alternatively you can also select a White Point of 6500 Kelvin, but be aware that this will reduce your front projector’s brightness, because one or two color channels will be clipped after the white point correction.
• In the “Advanced Settings” select the Gray Balance Calibration “Off – Recommended”, which is required for front projectors that uses the DLP technology. On front projectors that using a different technology you can also select the option “Faster”.
• Mount your Spyder5ELITE at your tripod and place the sensor at a distance of 30 cm / 12 inches in front of the screen. The senor’s honeycomb filter has to face towards the screen. The Spyder5ELITE software compensates the shadow the Spyder5ELITE create now on the screen.
• Keep your room pitch dark during the calibration process to get the best results.

This will fall on deaf's ears but I will try this anyways...

Never ever calibrate your projector for movie/tv viewing with the Datacolor software. Their calibration is for graphics/video (photo and NLE video editing) on applications that use ICC profiles. If you do you will never get proper color calibrations using AutoCal or any other calibration tools that we use for movie/tv viewing. ICC is a nightmare to deal with once you get it in your system. They usually deal with sRGB and AdobeRGB. Even if Datacolor claims they can calibrate to BT709, DCI-P3 or BT2020, they still deal with ICC profiles.

Their calibration is basically done at the OS level, not the display level. If you change the ICC profile you will now affect any display level calibration no matter what they (Datacolor) tell you that it won't.

[dsm1212]

This will fall on deaf's ears but I will try this anyways...

Never ever calibrate your projector for movie/tv viewing with the Datacolor software. Their calibration is for graphics/video (photo and NLE video editing) on applications that use ICC profiles. If you do you will never get proper color calibrations using AutoCal or any other calibration tools that we use for movie/tv viewing. ICC is a nightmare to deal with once you get it in your system. They usually deal with sRGB and AdobeRGB. Even if Datacolor claims they can calibrate to BT709, DCI-P3 or BT2020, they still deal with ICC profiles.

Their calibration is basically done at the OS level, not the display level. If you change the ICC profile you will now affect any display level calibration no matter what they (Datacolor) tell you that it won't.

Ha, well this may fall on blind eyes but I asked about using their recommended settings with the jvc software :-). Any thoughts on that? The tool is obviously used for color calibration and I'm thinking maybe we are just lacking the right settings for it to get a good reading.

[Killroy™]

Ha, well this may fall on blind eyes but I asked about using their recommended settings with the jvc software :-). Any thoughts on that? The tool is obviously used for color calibration and I'm thinking maybe we are just lacking the right settings for it to get a good reading.

There is nothing you can do to improve the Spyder5/X color measurements on AutoCal. That is just the nature of the Spyder hardware.

You don't have to do anything in their software for Gamma calibration on AutoCal. As a matter of fact, I believe the recommended steps is to never launch the Datacolor software, and maybe even uninstall it after the driver gets loaded.


Their software is actually incredible good at creating ICC profiles. But not for display level calibration.

[alamagar]

I read through a bunch here, but not everything so I apologize. The questions I have are:

1. Gamma is tied to lamp/filter but I have an RS1000 with no filter. So I need exactly two gamma calibrations. One with Low lamp and one with High lamp. Correct?

2. If I do a spyderx pro calibration for color can I tell from looking at the results before I save if it is any good? Like a major gaff on the chart or something that is obvious?

3. The quote from the doc mentioned by others seems to indicate that frame adapt will be affected by calibration, you just have to use a different picture mode with matching lamp/filter for gamma. Is that still the current belief?

4. Other than the subjective visual, is there any definitive way to tell if a given menu selection is picking up my calibrated settings?

thanks!

This brings to me different questions:

1.- Then, why is the screen previous to calibration asking for Picture Mode and Color Profile and Color Temp? (see image attached). As far as I understand the gamma result (and color if you calibrate color as well) will be used independently of this selection.

2.- I read from Mani instructions that Iris was taken into account in steps of 4. Will calibration for Iris -4, will be applied when choosing Iris 0? And -5?

3.- Even you choose in the previous screen to calibrate Picture Mode “HDR10” and Color Profile “HDR” there is no real calibration for HDR. This will affect SDR modes as long as you use same Iris range and lamp. Correct?

4.- But then the other way around, If when I calibrate gamma for low, -4, BT709(no filter), it is as well being used when I choose HDR10 or frame adaptative as far as I use same lamp, iris and no filter, how a gamma 2.2 calibration can be used in a proper way  by an HDR EOTF curve? It is different target and curve and HDR needs specific gamma calibration different from SDR. I do not want my SDR calibration is taken in consideration when using HDR.

5. And finally, why frame adaptative is affected by any other gamma calibration? It is supposed the projector is taking tone mapping decisions for each frame.

[Manni]

This brings to me different questions:

1.- Then, why is the screen previous to calibration asking for Picture Mode and Color Profile and Color Temp? (see image attached). As far as I understand the gamma result (and color if you calibrate color as well) will be used independently of this selection.

2.- I read from Mani instructions that Iris was taken into account in steps of 4. Will calibration for Iris -4, will be applied when choosing Iris 0? And -5?

3.- Even you choose in the previous screen to calibrate Picture Mode “HDR10” and Color Profile “HDR” there is no real calibration for HDR. This will affect SDR modes as long as you use same Iris range and lamp. Correct?

4.- But then the other way around, If when I calibrate gamma for low, -4, BT709(no filter), it is as well being used when I choose HDR10 or frame adaptative as far as I use same lamp, iris and no filter, how a gamma 2.2 calibration can be used in a proper way  by an HDR EOTF curve? It is different target and curve and HDR needs specific gamma calibration different from SDR. I do not want my SDR calibration is taken in consideration when using HDR.

5. And finally, why frame adaptative is affected by any other gamma calibration? It is supposed the projector is taking tone mapping decisions for each frame.

1. It's not asking you to specify picture mode, color profile and color temp. It is telling you what the current picture mode is, and which parameters it is using. This is so you can, if you wish, either select a different picture mode to calibrate from the Autocal (you can't/shouldn't use the remote once you're running the Autocal software), or change some of the settings before calibration if you want, in which case these settings will still be active after you leave the autocal.

2. Unless ranges have changed (always a possibility), -4 should use the same range as -5, not 0. The ranges are/were 0 to -3, -4 to -7, -8 to -11, -12 to -15. TBC. As I said many times, it is better to calibrate the iris setting that you are actutally using, irrespective of the range, as even within the same range there are some variations. Then if you want to be able to change the iris setting without recalibrating, do a color for the other ranges you care about. I personally only do the iris setting I'm currently using, and only run another color calibration when I have to open the iris due to brightness reducing.

3. Correct for gamma calibration, as long as you use the same lamp and filter combination. Correct for color calibration as long as you use the same iris range, lamp and filter calibration. Usually at least the iris range is different for between SDR and HDR, but I guess that if your screen is too large and you only have 50nits or less in HDR, you have to use the same settings for SDR too.

4. When you do a gamma calibration, it calibrates all the gamma curves for the same lamp and filter settings. This is done mathematically. All gamma curves, whether power or PQ. So it doesn't matter whether you're calibrating an SDR or HDR picture mode. This is also why it's recommended to run gamma autocal with the iris fully open at gamma 2.2. This will help to calibrate near black more accurately, and will make the log graphs more readable (if it follows the straight line, the calibration went well according to the Spyder).

5. The reason why the frame adapt mode can't be calibrating is precisely because it will adapt depending on each pattern. It's the same as using the dynamic iris. It's not possible because it would impact the calibration. So as long as you calibrate a picture mode that uses the same gamma, filter and iris range, it should be calibrated. One user reported this not working, so I suggested trying if selecting BT2020 vs P3 would make a difference, but really there is no reason for that, in theory. Until a user reports whether it makes a difference, or whether their problem is solved or not, sticking to the theory is safest. Personally I had no problem getting frame adapt calibrated, but I do calibrate both an SDR BT2020 and an SDR P3 mode, so not sure if that played a part or not (it shouldn't as the filter mode is the same and autocal isn't supposed to make a difference).

I'm hoping to be able to do more tests with the Spyder X by the end of next week. I'll report back then.

[alamagar]

1. It's not asking you to specify picture mode, color profile and color temp. It is telling you what the current picture mode is, and which parameters it is using. This is so you can, if you wish, either select a different picture mode to calibrate from the Autocal (you can't/shouldn't use the remote once you're running the Autocal software), or change some of the settings before calibration if you want, in which case these settings will still be active after you leave the autocal.

2. Unless ranges have changed (always a possibility), -4 should use the same range as -5, not 0. The ranges are/were 0 to -3, -4 to -7, -8 to -11, -12 to -15. TBC. As I said many times, it is better to calibrate the iris setting that you are actutally using, irrespective of the range, as even within the same range there are some variations. Then if you want to be able to change the iris setting without recalibrating, do a color for the other ranges you care about. I personally only do the iris setting I'm currently using, and only run another color calibration when I have to open the iris due to brightness reducing.

3. Correct for gamma calibration, as long as you use the same lamp and filter combination. Correct for color calibration as long as you use the same iris range, lamp and filter calibration. Usually at least the iris range is different for between SDR and HDR, but I guess that if your screen is too large and you only have 50nits or less in HDR, you have to use the same settings for SDR too.

4. When you do a gamma calibration, it calibrates all the gamma curves for the same lamp and filter settings. This is done mathematically. All gamma curves, whether power or PQ. So it doesn't matter whether you're calibrating an SDR or HDR picture mode. This is also why it's recommended to run gamma autocal with the iris fully open at gamma 2.2. This will help to calibrate near black more accurately, and will make the log graphs more readable (if it follows the straight line, the calibration went well according to the Spyder).

5. The reason why the frame adapt mode can't be calibrating is precisely because it will adapt depending on each pattern. It's the same as using the dynamic iris. It's not possible because it would impact the calibration. So as long as you calibrate a picture mode that uses the same gamma, filter and iris range, it should be calibrated. One user reported this not working, so I suggested trying if selecting BT2020 vs P3 would make a difference, but really there is no reason for that, in theory. Until a user reports whether it makes a difference, or whether their problem is solved or not, sticking to the theory is safest. Personally I had no problem getting frame adapt calibrated, but I do calibrate both an SDR BT2020 and an SDR P3 mode, so not sure if that played a part or not (it shouldn't as the filter mode is the same and autocal isn't supposed to make a difference).

I'm hoping to be able to do more tests with the Spyder X by the end of next week. I'll report back then.

Many thanks for the clarifications Mani!!
I still have some doubts reading your answers:
1.- In one paragraph you say “it is better to calibrate the iris setting that you are actually using”. In another “This is also why it's recommended to run gamma autocal with the iris fully open at gamma 2.2”. It is not clear to me if set the iris to -4 (my iris setting for SDR) or to 0 to calibrate gamma. I am only doing gamma autocalibration as Color is biased using spyderX and prefer to calibrate it manually with my i1d3.

2. The backup file saved after each calibration is incremental or only contains the last calibration? I mean I have now the Init file and the file created after my calibration for SDR -4, low, no filter. If I make a new calibration 0,low, filter for HDR, the new backup file will contain both or just the last one?