JVC Autocal Software V12 calibration for 2019 RS1000/RS2000/RS3000/NX5/NX7/NX9

[ENT]

If you want to use the JVC Autocal V11, you can use two families of meters:

The Spyder 5 Pro/Elite/Express

If you want to buy one meter to do everything with the JVC Autocal at the lowest cost, that’s the meter to get. It's not perfect, but it provides great results for a limited investment.
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Note that the Spyder 4 and older are NOT compatible with the JVC Autocal V11, hence can't be used to calibrate the native 4K models.

A Spyder X has been recently released, but it's not yet supported by the autocal (as of V11 1.10). Support might be added in a future version.

The x-Rite i1Pro 2 (you only need the basic version for projector/display calibration use)
The i1pro 2 is a very good, semi-pro, near reference spectroradiometer.
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The strength of the i1pro2 is gamut/color/white point correction. Its weakness is gamma calibration (especially in the low end), as they are not really reliable below 15% white when reading a typical SDR calibration of a JVC off the screen.
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So ideally the i1Pro 2  should be used for color (gamut/white point) calibration only, and the Spyder 5 should be used for gamma calibration (preferably).
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If you want to save some money, there are two alternatives to the i1pro2:

• The EFI ES-2000, a clone of the i1pro2, that apparently is detected as an i1pro2 by the Autocal Software and possibly by other calibration software, but can’t be used with x-Rite software for licensing reasons. I haven't tried it personally but others have confirmed it should work.
• The older i1pro (preferably rev.B-D), that isn’t officially supported and has a smaller range (0.2-300nits). Still it can be used with the Autocal software

Whichever meter you use, you need the manufacturer's driver (Datacolor or X-rite) to be installed, not another third party (for example ArgyllCMS). Also, if the manufacturer's software loads a utility (Datacolor does), you have to prevent this from being loaded or it will conflict with the JVC Autocal when it tries to access the meter.

Hi Manni,
I can confirm EFI ES-2000 work like an i1pro2 in JVC autocal and in Calman - needs for boths only the driver "i1_x64.sys, year 2006 release" instead, the 2009 release of driver, works with Calman but not with JVC Autocal. Both the software recognize ES-2000 as an i1pro2 with hardware serial number. I think the principle it is valid for other software also.

Tank you for the suggestion, I have bought ES-2000 after I read your thread and now I am glad confirm your hypothesis.

In therms of hypothesis I think that the colorimeter EIZO EX3 is a sypder5 clone and in this case the cost is very low.
See the attachment.
Regards

[Manni]

Thanks for your feedback and confirmation, I've linked your post to the "Which meter to use" post.

Nice find on the Eizo, which looks like a clone of the Spyder 5 Express for half the price. If someone confirms that it works with the JVC Autocal V11 I'll mention it too.

[Dylan Seeger]

Manni, do you know if the EFI ES-2000 will work with Chromapure? I'm assuming it will show up as an i1Pro2?

[SirMaster]

Looks like official SpyderX support for Autocal is being added in the next October firmware along with some other goodies.

New features
Frame by frame DTM HDR. Can also be set up for scene by scene. (uses 18-bit processing to avoid banding)
Anamorphic D (for DCR lens owners)
SpyderX support for autocal
More screen calibration presets

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2019/consumer/firmware_update.html

[Manni]

Yep, it means people will be able to start buying a Spyder X in November.

Until then, a Spyder 5 is still the only option (besides the i1pro2 and comp. of course).

I plan to test a Spyder X whenever JVC release a new Autocal software, of course I'll update the thread then.

[SirMaster]

I'm curious how the SpyderX will work.  As far as I understand, it can't do 10,000 nits like the Spyder5 and it's not meant to ever read directly from a projector lens.

Both the Spyder4 and Spyder5 which are the only 2 other meters that JVC has ever used for gamma from the lens had a different sensor design that seems to have allowed that.

The sensor design and lens on the SpyderX looks a lot like the i1D3, but has no filter to use for reading off a lens.

I guess I can ask JVC about it when I am at CEDIA.

[Manni]

Reading off the lens isn't really desirable as long as the meter is sensitive enough to read low light patterns accurately off the screen, so that the screen is taken into account without having to use a screen table. With the JVCs, I'd rather have a meter than can't read very high with better sensitivity in the low end to measure 33 steps for gamma accurately, included near black, than a meter able to read 10,000nits off the lens with poor low light sensitivity. Ideally, I'd want something like my Discus that can also measure black accurately for BT1886 and contrast measurements, but I doubt this will happen with Spyder X.

If reading off the screen we don't need more than say 500nits, and that's for those with a screen smaller than my monitor. I have 88" diag 16/9 nominal gain and I barely hit 220nits with a new lamp in high lamp.

Anyway, I find it easier to buy and test, which I will do as soon as JVC delivers the goods, but of course please update us if you find anything interesting at Cedia.

[SirMaster]

So I was redoing all my autocal stuff today to try some new things and I found something strange.

For some reason my DCI color profile mode on my NX5 will not autocal.

Even if I run autocal when the projector is in DCI color profile mode it wont stick.

Autocal logs, calibrates, and re-logs the results properly.  The autocal graphs at the end even show that it has been correctly calibrated by autocal.  I click Save and it says calibration saved successfully.  At this moment, DCI is actually calibrated, but as soon as I change any setting in the projector, like even change the iris from 0 to -1, the calibration disappears (I see the color change) and it never comes back.  Even if I go back to iris 0.

If I switch the projector into HDR color profile or rec709 and run a verification via HCFR, everything comes out perfect, gamma is flat 2.2, white balance is 0.5dE max, etc.

And in HDR or rec709 mode when I move the iris between -4 and -3 I can immediately see the color autocal enable and disable as it only applies to -3 and above of course.

But back in DCI color profile there is no change between iris -4 and -3 and when I run a verification in HCFR, my gamma is around 2.0 to 2.1 and the white balance is 2-3 dE off like it's uncalibrated.

I tried multiple times and even restoring INIT and trying fresh and it's the same thing every time.  All my color profiles calibrate perfectly except DCI

I am also on firmware 2.08 FWIW but it was the same problem on 2.07 as well.

Is this intentional for DCI color profile?  Any ideas?

[Manni]

This isn't intentional and the DCI color profile calibrates fine here. But I have an rs2000 with the P3 filter, so that's a difference.

Are you using the DCI profile in a factory Picture Mode, such as Natural, Cinema, or HDR10, are you using it in a User Picture Mode?

I'm using it in a user picture mode (User 2), and it works fine there.

So I would first try to see if it works from a user picture mode.

If it doesn't work from a user picture mode, then I would try to create a custom DCI custom color profile with the JVC Autocal using standard P3 coordinates (I can't remember if P3 is an option in the software or not), save it, import it into a custom profile slot, and try to calibrate that in a user picture mode.

Or use the profile I attached, but it wasn't created with V11 so I can't guarantee that it will work. I'll create a set of profiles from Autocal V11 to make sure that they work when I find a minute and will make them available for download. They can be useful, especially for those with an rs2000/rs3000 who would like to calibrate rec-709 with the filter or DCI-P3 without the filter, as these options are still not in the new JVCs (unlike BT2020 which has both BT2020 with filter and HDR10 without filter).

If any of that works, please report your findings to JVC (and let us know).

If it doesn't work, please report to JVC and see what they say. It might be a bug with N5/RS1000 models.

Good luck!

[gregch]

Posted by Manni in the RS1000/2000/33000 owners forum. "Spyder5 for gamma and i1pro2 for color is the best combination if you want to be able to use the JVC Autocal (please ask any further questions on that subject in the calibration thread).

The Discus is a great meter but it's not supported by JVC (yet). Neither is the C6. As you already have a Spyder5, the best addition would be an i1pro2, so you can use that to measure color in the JVC Autocal and to train your Spyder5 in any other software supporting both (most do)."


Hi Manni,

Continuing our conversation. 

I am a bit confused on the best inexpensive all around meters to use for display calibration. 
I understand that the JVC Autocal software is limited in it's meter support but works with the Spyder5 and the iDisplaypro2 meters but I may not want to be limited to just JVC Autocal.  I am thinking of buying Calman HDR calibration software to calibrate multiple TVs and my projector.  I realize that I won't be making 3DLUT tables for the JVC like Autocal but I would think I could get respectable calibration using the Color Management System in the JVC projector.

My confusion comes from the iDisplayPro & Pro2.  My understanding is that the i1DisplayPro is a basic all around Spectrophotometer that can be calibrated with the i1DisplayPro2 to be used for accurate calibration.  Likewise I guess you can use the i1DisplayPro2 to calibrate the Spyder5 meter and use it for all around calibration.  But the i1DisplayPro2 is a colorimeter and by itself it basically can only be used with the JVC Autocal software standalone.  Is that correct?

I am looking at purchasing the Calman C6 2000 HDR meter for calibration since it is the cheaper priced all around meter.  I understand it can't be used with JVC Autocal but couldn't I just use the Spyder5 meter for gamma and then correct my color using Calman HDR software and the C6 meter using JVC's color management system.

The C6 meter is about $750.00 whereas the X-rite i1DisplayPro2 is $1500 for the basic bundle software package.  I haven't seen where you can buy a new calibrated meter by itself without the bundle.

Any information you could provide that would help me with the decision would be greatly appreciated.  I have been told by the X-rite forum that the Spyder5 isn't accurate for low light color measurements and that the i1DisplayPro meter in conjunction with the i1DisplayPro2 colorimeter is the way to go.  Is there really much difference between the i1DisplayPro and the Spyder5.  It seems like you could use the i1DisplayPro2 to calibrate the Spyder5 and make it just as accurate as the i1DisplayPro? Or am I just completely confused?

[SirMaster]

Posted by Manni in the RS1000/2000/33000 owners forum. "Spyder5 for gamma and i1pro2 for color is the best combination if you want to be able to use the JVC Autocal (please ask any further questions on that subject in the calibration thread).

The Discus is a great meter but it's not supported by JVC (yet). Neither is the C6. As you already have a Spyder5, the best addition would be an i1pro2, so you can use that to measure color in the JVC Autocal and to train your Spyder5 in any other software supporting both (most do)."


Hi Manni,

Continuing our conversation. 

I am a bit confused on the best inexpensive all around meters to use for display calibration. 
I understand that the JVC Autocal software is limited in it's support for the Spyder5 and the iDisplaypro2 meters but I may not want to be limited to just Autocal.  I am thinking of buying Calman HDR calibration software to calibrate multiple TVs and my projector.  I realize that I won't be making 3DLUT tables for the JVC like Autocal but I would think I could get respectable calibration using the Color Management System in the JVC projector.

My confusion comes from the iDisplayPro & Pro2.  My understanding is that the i1DisplayPro is a basic all around Spectrophotometer that can be calibrated with the i1DisplayPro2 to be used for accurate calibration.  Likewise I guess you can use the i1DisplayPro2 to calibrate the Spyder5 meter and use it for all around calibration.  But the i1DisplayPro2 is a colorimeter and by itself it basically can only be used with the JVC Autocal software standalone.  Is that correct?

I am looking at purchasing the Calman C6 2000 HDR meter for calibration since it is the cheaper priced all around meter.  I understand it can't be used with JVC Autocal but couldn't I just use the Spyder5 meter for gamma and then correct my color using Calman HDR software and the C6 meter using JVC's color management system.

The C6 meter is about $750.00 whereas the X-rite i1DisplayPro2 is $1500 for the basic bundle software package.  I haven't seen where you can by a new calibrated meter by itself without the bundle.

Any information you could provide that would help me with the decision would be greatly appreciated.  I have been told by the X-rite forum that the Spyder5 isn't accurate for low light color measurements and that the i1DisplayPro meter in conjunction with the i1DisplayPro2 colorimeter is the way to go.  Is there really much difference between the i1DisplayPro and the Spyder5.  It seems like you could use the i1DisplayPro2 to calibrate the Spyder5 and make it just as accurate as the i1DisplayPro? Or am I just completely confused?

You are confused about these meters.

This explains them pretty well.

https://displaycalibrations.com/x-rite_i1_measurement_solutions_info.html

i1 Pro 2 is a spectrophotometer, the i1 DisplayPro is a colorimeter.

Generally you use the i1 Pro 2 to create a correction profile for a specific display for the i1 DisplayPro colormeter.

The spectrophotometer always sees the correct light from every type of display (within its resolution limitations).

A colormeter needs corrections for different display types (White LED, RGB LED, Rg Phosphor LED, OLED, HLD Lamp, Laser, LED Lamp, CCFL, etc).

The correction makes the colorimeter see the particular display in the same way the spectrophotometer sees it.

The reason you want both is because a spectrophotometer is much slower and much worse at low light readings.  A colormeter is much better at these.

The i1 Pro 2 is compatible with recent JVC autocal, but the i1 DisplayPro colorimeter is not.  But the i1 Pro 2 being a spectro is not good for low light reading, so it is not suitable for gamma autocal.  Color autocal only consists of reading a few 100% color patterns which are very bright, so it works.

The only colorimeter compatible with autocal is a Spyder5 and soon next month a SpyderX.  The colorimeter is suited for low light and works pretty well with the gamma autocal.

Both the i1 Pro 2 and i1 DisplayPro are compatible with virtually every calibration software on the market.  CalMAN, Lightspace, ChromaPure, HCFR, DisplayCAL, etc.


If you are going to do a lot of autocal, I would get an i1 Pro 2 and a Spyder.  If you are are going to be using other calibration software, a i1 DisplayPro is a good budget colorimeter, but you can go for something better as long as it will be compatible with the calibration software you plan to use.

Personally I would rather have a ~$400 i1 Pro 2 (from eBay) + a $200 i1 DisplayPro = $600 total rather than only buying a ~$600 colorimeter with no spectrophotometer to correct it for each display you are calibrating.

If you don't correct the colorimeter with a spectro I fear the results will be worse then a cheaper (but at least corrected colormeter).

[gregch]

Ok thank you SirMaster.  That helps a lot. 

When you use the i1DisplayPro2 for correcting the i1DisplayPro is this usually done within the specific calibration software like Calman or LightSpace?  or does it require a separate set of software from X-rite specifically for this task?

[SirMaster]

Ok thank you SirMaster.  That helps a lot. 

When you use the i1DisplayPro2 for correcting the i1DisplayPro is this usually done within the specific calibration software like Calman or LightSpace?  or does it require a separate set of software from X-rite specifically for this task?

You typically create the correction within the calibration software you are using.

And just to clarify naming, because it's less confusing once you understand it.

The spectrophotometer is "i1 Pro 2", there is no "Display" word.  It's the second major product revision in the "i1 Pro" spectrophotmeter product line.  Technically it's "i1 Pro Rev. E" which is also called "i1 Pro 2".  Rev A-D are all original "i1 Pro" design, before the "2" new design.

The "Display" name is for the colorimeter only.  "i1Display Pro 3" is the colorimeter.  It's technically the 3rd major version of that product line.  The model number EODIS3.

People sometimes call it i1D3.

[Manni]

Thanks Sirmaster for the detailed summary, nothing to add except that GregCh has indicated in the other thread that he already owns a Spyder 5 Elite. This is why I suggested the i1pro2 as the best choice in his situation if he wanted to gain anything by adding another tool to his toolbox, both with the JVC Autocal and with any other software.

Also GregCH you might want to look at the first post to see how the thread is organized. In the basic section there is a post called "Which meter to choose?" that will give you lots of info regarding each strength and weaknesses of each meter.

[gregch]

Thanks Sirmaster for the detailed summary, nothing to add except that GregCh has indicated in the other thread that he already owns a Spyder 5 Elite. This is why I suggested the i1pro2 as the best choice in his situation if he wanted to gain anything by adding another tool to his toolbox, both with the JVC Autocal and with any other software.

Thanks Manni!  
Just one more question.  If I bought just the i1 pro 2 meter and I wanted to use Calman or LightSpace to calibrate a display other than the JVC projector,  could I use the i1 Pro 2 to color correct my Spyder5 meter and use that for calibration with those packages?  or do I need the i1DisplayPro meter and my Spyder5 is only good for gamma Autocal with the JVC.