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JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #225 on: January 11, 2019, 09:10:34 AM »
Boy, I'll tell ya, some people act like a skittish animal. As I mentioned before in this thread, JVC seems committed at making their projectors function properly. They have a proven track record at releasing firmware files to fix issues, especially related to the dynamic iris. I saw at least one person has cancelled their preorder due to what they thought was an issue that's already been fixed. Now he has to wait at the end of the line if he wants to get a new projector. All I can say is any projector when thrown under the microscope will show issues. Most of these microscopic issues cannot be detected with normal video content.

Everyone calm down and take a deep breath, JVC will makes things right in the end like they always do. I see we're now getting a free lamp from this whole ordeal, so there's one positive thing to look forward to. :)

In general, I do agree with your perspective.  I'm actively following this discussion, as I'm wanting the NX9 to replace my RS400.  I think JVC's self-interest is sufficient that they will fix problems as quickly and efficiently as they can.  But I do remember the CMD bug, which did require the user to ship the projector back to JVC.  So until it was known that a firmware fix was sufficient to address the known problems, I do understand potential buyer's anxiety.

My main anxiety was expressed in a post to ARROW-AV on the other forum:

Quote
Are you in a position yet to fairly address how the NX9 compares to any of the recent JVC Projectors (RS4xx, RS5xx, RS6xx), in terms of overall "real-world" picture quality? Many of us have 'well-tuned' Projectors, using either the Panasonic UB-820, well-designed custom curves, or MadVR, etc., for HDR, and have pretty darn impressive pictures. So:

If someone with a reasonably sharp and trained eye just walked in the room where the previous Projector was housed, and sees the new image, are they going to say, "Hmmm... I think this looks a little better than it usually does" or are they going to say "Holy crap, what the heck is going on here? - This looks amazing!!"??

Similarly, what would be the likely reaction of that person's spouse, who isn't looking in terms of critical details, has no formal background, but can appreciate picture quality from an experiential level?

If I'm going to be spending mega-bucks on an NX9, I would hope that the improvement on my modest, yet most impressive RS400, would be in the "holy crap" category, and not a 'yeah, I *think* that looks a little better.'

His response is that he couldn't yet answer, as he didn't have the data to do so properly, which was a fair and acceptable answer.  But responses from at least one other owner suggested that a trained eye would see obvious differences, while others perhaps not so much.

I would want the degree of improvement to be such that *anybody* would see an obvious difference, to justify spending that type of money!  Hopefully with firmware fixes, and more units in people's homes, the answer will be more apparent.

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #226 on: January 11, 2019, 09:44:38 AM »
I would want the degree of improvement to be such that *anybody* would see an obvious difference, to justify spending that type of money!  Hopefully with firmware fixes, and more units in people's homes, the answer will be more apparent.

This is an interesting topic that I think has a more complex answer than you want. Part of the issue is out of JVC's or Sony's hands. Ultimately it's the video content itself that can make or break image quality. At the moment I feel that most of the UHD blu-ray content doesn't have that "in your face" obvious uptick in image quality over the 1080p blu-ray counterpart. So in this sense, an eshift JVC projector will look much the same compared to these new native 4K units. It will probably only be the select few titles out at the moment that have a new remaster (which wasn't used for a 1080p blu-ray) that will show clear an obvious advantages over an older 1080p blu-ray release. I'd say there's probably a dozen or two titles out at the moment that will do this. Obviously this will get better over time. We saw the same thing happen to 1080p blu-ray. As the format matured we saw an exponential increase in general picture quality. The same thing is bound to happen to UHD Bluray.

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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #227 on: January 11, 2019, 10:18:28 AM »
This is an interesting topic that I think has a more complex answer than you want. Part of the issue is out of JVC's or Sony's hands. Ultimately it's the video content itself that can make or break image quality. At the moment I feel that most of the UHD blu-ray content doesn't have that "in your face" obvious uptick in image quality over the 1080p blu-ray counterpart. So in this sense, an eshift JVC projector will look much the same compared to these new native 4K units. It will probably only be the select few titles out at the moment that have a new remaster (which wasn't used for a 1080p blu-ray) that will show clear an obvious advantages over an older 1080p blu-ray release. I'd say there's probably a dozen or two titles out at the moment that will do this. Obviously this will get better over time. We saw the same thing happen to 1080p blu-ray. As the format matured we saw an exponential increase in general picture quality. The same thing is bound to happen to UHD Bluray.

I agree if you are using good HDR curves or the UB820, but it is a huge advantage of the new units being able to auto tone map all HDR sources. Lygren put up an NX7 on a large V6 screen and he said HDR movies like Blade Runner 2049 actually looked better on the NX7 than they did on the much brighter VW5000. Also if the new models upscale like the 4500, that will definitely be a big improvement. Throw in the more accurate lens memory and the ability to store so much more in lens memory and you have quite a bit going for the new models.
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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #228 on: January 11, 2019, 10:31:11 AM »
Compared to my Cineversum Black Wing 2 (JVC RS520) the NX9 did not make me say "wow this is so much better than what I have at home", but it is a fantastic projector and it better be at that price. To me the price is simply stupidly expensive for a lamp based projector with only about 2000 lumens and I personally would never buy it for the asking price. To me it is way to small a difference and way to much money compared to what I already have. Other than that it is a fantastic projector and now it is even better after the 1.17 firmware is starting to be installed on the units.

We will have a side by side with my Cineversum and Didriks NX9 in the near future and I will post my impressions here.
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Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.

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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #229 on: January 11, 2019, 11:45:02 AM »
Compared to my Cineversum Black Wing 2 (JVC RS520) the NX9 did not make me say "wow this is so much better than what I have at home", but it is a fantastic projector and it better be at that price. To me the price is simply stupidly expensive for a lamp based projector with only about 2000 lumens and I personally would never buy it for the asking price. To me it is way to small a difference and way to much money compared to what I already have. Other than that it is a fantastic projector and now it is even better after the 1.17 firmware is starting to be installed on the units.

We will have a side by side with my Cineversum and Didriks NX9 in the near future and I will post my impressions here.

You have a fairly recent projector, so I'd say it's too soon to upgrade. Although I can't imagine you wouldn't see a difference with top tier 4K source material, and a somewhat less noisy picture with native 4K on the new projectors. It's different for folks with 5 - 10 year old projectors though.
What is the MSRP where you are ( what country are you in ) ?
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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #230 on: January 11, 2019, 12:26:01 PM »
You have a fairly recent projector, so I'd say it's too soon to upgrade. Although I can't imagine you wouldn't see a difference with top tier 4K source material, and a somewhat less noisy picture with native 4K on the new projectors. It's different for folks with 5 - 10 year old projectors though.
What is the MSRP where you are ( what country are you in ) ?

Of corse it will look better with real 4K material, but the difference will not be very big I think. I have tested several Sony 4K models against 1080p e-shift models and the difference is not very big when it comes to sharpness and clarity. The NX9 will be better than the Sonys for sure and I look forward to the side by side to see what I am missing. I will most likely buy the next gen, but then probably the N7 upgrade. ;)

I live in Norway and the MSRP in NOK equals about 22000$.
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Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.

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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #231 on: January 11, 2019, 12:50:02 PM »
Of corse it will look better with real 4K material, but the difference will not be very big I think. I have tested several Sony 4K models against 1080p e-shift models and the difference is not very big when it comes to sharpness and clarity. The NX9 will be better than the Sonys for sure and I look forward to the side by side to see what I am missing. I will most likely buy the next gen, but then probably the N7 upgrade. ;)

I live in Norway and the MSRP in NOK equals about 22000$.

Wait - in Norway an RS2000 / NX7 is the equivalent cost of $ 22,000.00 dollars US ? 
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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #232 on: January 11, 2019, 01:24:23 PM »
I agree with everyone. The last 3 generations of JVC eshifters is very hard to beat. You're really paying all this money for a small bump in perceived image sharpness due in part to the better lenses and the increase in panel resolution. You're getting some better image processing too. Most of everything else remains the same. Paying a lot for a small increase in performance is par for the course when it comes to consumer electronics. Audio is the same way. You can get 90% of the way there by spending 10% as much as someone getting 100% state of the art performance but he's spending 10x more than you.

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #233 on: January 11, 2019, 01:25:08 PM »
This is an interesting topic that I think has a more complex answer than you want. Part of the issue is out of JVC's or Sony's hands. Ultimately it's the video content itself that can make or break image quality. At the moment I feel that most of the UHD blu-ray content doesn't have that "in your face" obvious uptick in image quality over the 1080p blu-ray counterpart. So in this sense, an eshift JVC projector will look much the same compared to these new native 4K units. It will probably only be the select few titles out at the moment that have a new remaster (which wasn't used for a 1080p blu-ray) that will show clear an obvious advantages over an older 1080p blu-ray release. I'd say there's probably a dozen or two titles out at the moment that will do this. Obviously this will get better over time. We saw the same thing happen to 1080p blu-ray. As the format matured we saw an exponential increase in general picture quality. The same thing is bound to happen to UHD Bluray.

You certainly make a good point here: even with my RS400, some UHD's aren't especially impressive, while some HD's make me think it's UHD.

Going from my RS400 to an NX9 would represent a move forward on several fronts (there are other differences, but these are the main ones, I think):

  • True 4k Resolution vs eShift

    Double Aperture vs Single Aperture

    Improved Contrast (100,000 vs 40,000)

    Greater Light Output (2200 vs 1700 lumens)

    Tone Mapping vs Custom Curves

    Greater Color Gamut with Filter use

    Z1 lens vs the 'regular' JVC 4xx/5xx/6xx lens

So my hope is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so to speak, and that the net visual impact would be obvious to basically any observer.

But how realistic this hope is, given how much I'm having to wager, is unclear.

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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #234 on: January 11, 2019, 01:32:44 PM »
You certainly make a good point here: even with my RS400, some UHD's aren't especially impressive, while some HD's make me think it's UHD.

Going from my RS400 to an NX9 would represent a move forward on several fronts (there are other differences, but these are the main ones, I think):

  • True 4k Resolution vs eShift

    Double Aperture vs Single Aperture

    Improved Contrast (100,000 vs 40,000)

    Greater Light Output (2200 vs 1700 lumens)

    Tone Mapping vs Custom Curves

    Greater Color Gamut with Filter use

    Z1 lens vs the 'regular' JVC 4xx/5xx/6xx lens

So my hope is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so to speak, and that the net visual impact would be obvious to basically any observer.

But how realistic this hope is, given how much I'm having to wager, is unclear.


I saw a big improvement overall going from my RS600 to my RS4500. So, with the same lens in the RS3000 / NX9, there will be a visible improvement over an RS400 in my opinion. 4K / HDR especially. 
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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #235 on: January 11, 2019, 02:13:00 PM »
Wait - in Norway an RS2000 / NX7 is the equivalent cost of $ 22,000.00 dollars US ?

No the NX9, the N7 is around 10000$.
Regards
Andreas                                                           

Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #236 on: January 11, 2019, 02:14:45 PM »
No the NX9, the N7 is around 10000$.

MSRP or what your dealer's price is?

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #237 on: January 11, 2019, 02:21:49 PM »
You certainly make a good point here: even with my RS400, some UHD's aren't especially impressive, while some HD's make me think it's UHD.

Going from my RS400 to an NX9 would represent a move forward on several fronts (there are other differences, but these are the main ones, I think):

  • True 4k Resolution vs eShift

    Double Aperture vs Single Aperture

    Improved Contrast (100,000 vs 40,000)

    Greater Light Output (2200 vs 1700 lumens)

    Tone Mapping vs Custom Curves

    Greater Color Gamut with Filter use

    Z1 lens vs the 'regular' JVC 4xx/5xx/6xx lens

So my hope is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so to speak, and that the net visual impact would be obvious to basically any observer.

But how realistic this hope is, given how much I'm having to wager, is unclear.

I agree that with the right content being fed to the projector you're going to notice an upgrade over your RS400. Contrast and image sharpness should be the easiest thing to see between the two.

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #238 on: January 11, 2019, 02:58:58 PM »
I agree that with the right content being fed to the projector you're going to notice an upgrade over your RS400. Contrast and image sharpness should be the easiest thing to see between the two.

Well, for that kind of money, there better be a pretty big difference! :-\

I'm carefully following the discussion on the other forum, to try and get a feel for how big a difference! :-X

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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #239 on: January 11, 2019, 03:22:00 PM »
No the NX9, the N7 is around 10000$.

Those MSRP prices are 25% higher than the US. Actual street prices are going to be just that much lower here too.
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