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Projectors => Premium Projectors => Topic started by: AVSCraig on September 12, 2018, 04:47:13 PM

Title: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on September 12, 2018, 04:47:13 PM
Here are some hand held screen shots of moving video - not the best conditions, but I sure thought the RS1000 looked great at Cedia ! Just a tease while you wait !

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41382408_10217148359482137_2449591256758616064_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e5616cb45eeb73ffcba3864b3ae68a76&oe=5BECD1B9)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41500647_10217148375522538_642632686367670272_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c69790b3d7975951e36f078fc08c7f6d&oe=5C328505)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41403501_10217148376602565_7912727461849202688_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=90efbcfbe94d4d565c2c15bebddea635&oe=5BECBB5A)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41356506_10217148385362784_3972962108781363200_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c720df63abcef4b6762ade4de1091006&oe=5C293F04)

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41501586_10217155128491358_5859238468747526144_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=36fb6ec944a14d5e4b907ab08887454c&oe=5C208CC5)


Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 12, 2018, 06:35:17 PM
Just pre-ordered my RS2000 earlier tonight with AVScience!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: TWISM on September 12, 2018, 06:36:19 PM
Just pre-ordered my RS2000 earlier tonight with AVScience!

I am stuck trying to decide between the RS2000 and RS3000.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on September 12, 2018, 06:59:32 PM
I am stuck trying to decide between the RS2000 and RS3000.

Seeing how close the RS3000 is to the RS4500 ( for 1/2 the price ), I don't think you would be anything but thrilled with the RS3000 for years to come. Call me tomorrow to discuss if you would like.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: ARROW-AV on September 13, 2018, 06:45:40 AM
I am stuck trying to decide between the RS2000 and RS3000.
Stop torturing yourself! Let me decide for you... You want the RS3000. Go on, you know this!  ;)  8)  :-*
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 13, 2018, 08:01:12 AM
Stop torturing yourself! Let me decide for you... You want the RS3000. Go on, you know this!  ;)  8)  :-*

That's silly. We ALL want the RS3000. It's a matter of how crazy (or crazy rich) we all are.  ;D
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: BigScreen on September 13, 2018, 08:27:39 AM
I'm anxiously anticipating the reviews on the RS1000/2000, and hopefully, a comparison to the RS540!

The 3000 is out of reach, so it comes down the 540/1000/2000. My personal hope is that the 1000 will deliver the performance value, but my suspicion by looking at the specs is that the 2000 is going to be the one that will draw me.

Coming from an HD250, I'm fairly confident that any of those three would be a significant improvement, but while the price of the 540 is very attractive, the lure of true 4K and all the other features (not to mention the glowing praise of those who saw them at the IFA and CEDIA shows) weighs heavily as well. I hesitate to spend a large amount of money on an aging technology platform, and the possibility of the 540's e-shift mechanism being too annoyingly noisy to ignore (I'm very sensitive to high-frequency noise) factors into it as well. Without being able to see/hear a 540 in person, it's difficult to make a $4,000 gamble.

I lament the reality that the reviews will likely not come in time for the pre-order pricing window, but my concern about being an early adopter of a new generation platform is sticking in my mind as well. Getting in on the ground floor of something new is exciting, but often expensive and fraught with peril while the kinks are ironed out.

I do appreciate all those that go before me and put these projectors through their paces!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on September 13, 2018, 09:38:30 AM
I've owned a JVC since the RS600, and I have no worries that they will bring out a solid line of 4K projectors this year. They already have a solid native 4K projector, which I own. It's been trouble free for 19 months. They are using a lot of " trickle down " tech in the new projectors, from the RS4500.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 13, 2018, 01:45:06 PM
I'm anxiously anticipating the reviews on the RS1000/2000, and hopefully, a comparison to the RS540!

The 3000 is out of reach, so it comes down the 540/1000/2000. My personal hope is that the 1000 will deliver the performance value, but my suspicion by looking at the specs is that the 2000 is going to be the one that will draw me.

Coming from an HD250, I'm fairly confident that any of those three would be a significant improvement, but while the price of the 540 is very attractive, the lure of true 4K and all the other features (not to mention the glowing praise of those who saw them at the IFA and CEDIA shows) weighs heavily as well. I hesitate to spend a large amount of money on an aging technology platform, and the possibility of the 540's e-shift mechanism being too annoyingly noisy to ignore (I'm very sensitive to high-frequency noise) factors into it as well. Without being able to see/hear a 540 in person, it's difficult to make a $4,000 gamble.

I lament the reality that the reviews will likely not come in time for the pre-order pricing window, but my concern about being an early adopter of a new generation platform is sticking in my mind as well. Getting in on the ground floor of something new is exciting, but often expensive and fraught with peril while the kinks are ironed out.

I do appreciate all those that go before me and put these projectors through their paces!

Coming from an HD250 you're going to see a huge jump in performance no matter which unit you decide to go with.

As far as relative performance between the models, I think JVC has figured that out already. For a couple years JVC made the mistake of having the bottom end eshift model having contrast and light output capabilities too close to the mid-tier model. I think most people chose the DLA-RS4910 over the DLA-RS57 because of this. Then the HDR models came out and JVC rectified that mistake by having a pretty decent bump in contrast performance between the two models to make it worth the money to make the jump. Plus, with the advent of HDR, the P3 filter that the mid and top tier models had made them even more of a jump up in performance over the bottom model. I think JVC will keep these relative performance differences with these new models as well. If you can afford it, I think the RS2000 is the way to go over the RS1000.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on September 13, 2018, 04:23:53 PM
I'm anxiously anticipating the reviews on the RS1000/2000, and hopefully, a comparison to the RS540!

The 3000 is out of reach, so it comes down the 540/1000/2000. My personal hope is that the 1000 will deliver the performance value, but my suspicion by looking at the specs is that the 2000 is going to be the one that will draw me.

Coming from an HD250, I'm fairly confident that any of those three would be a significant improvement, but while the price of the 540 is very attractive, the lure of true 4K and all the other features (not to mention the glowing praise of those who saw them at the IFA and CEDIA shows) weighs heavily as well. I hesitate to spend a large amount of money on an aging technology platform, and the possibility of the 540's e-shift mechanism being too annoyingly noisy to ignore (I'm very sensitive to high-frequency noise) factors into it as well. Without being able to see/hear a 540 in person, it's difficult to make a $4,000 gamble.

I lament the reality that the reviews will likely not come in time for the pre-order pricing window, but my concern about being an early adopter of a new generation platform is sticking in my mind as well. Getting in on the ground floor of something new is exciting, but often expensive and fraught with peril while the kinks are ironed out.

I do appreciate all those that go before me and put these projectors through their paces!

Yes, the projectors will arrive in a group, so no way to have a review, before the projectors ship.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on September 13, 2018, 04:26:37 PM
Coming from an HD250 you're going to see a huge jump in performance no matter which unit you decide to go with.

As far as relative performance between the models, I think JVC has figured that out already. For a couple years JVC made the mistake of having the bottom end eshift model having contrast and light output capabilities too close to the mid-tier model. I think most people chose the DLA-RS4910 over the DLA-RS57 because of this. Then the HDR models came out and JVC rectified that mistake by having a pretty decent bump in contrast performance between the two models to make it worth the money to make the jump. Plus, with the advent of HDR, the P3 filter that the mid and top tier models had made them even more of a jump up in performance over the bottom model. I think JVC will keep these relative performance differences with these new models as well. If you can afford it, I think the RS2000 is the way to go over the RS1000.

Yep, since we deal with a pretty informed group, the RS2000 will be the main seller. It has been this way ever since the RS400, 500 and 600 models.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 14, 2018, 11:05:17 AM
Mike, I see you have a list of questions to ask JVC about these new units. If you get the chance can you ask if JVC has improved the DiLA panel's response time with these new 3rd generation 4K panels? The latest 6th generation 1080p DiLA panels had a claimed response time of 4ms GTG. I'm wondering if this has been improved any, possibly getting closer to Sony's 2.5ms GTG response time.

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 14, 2018, 12:00:15 PM
Mike/Craig, I also see JVC is now offering a "3 Year Advanced Replacement Warranty" on all three of these new models. Is there any way we could get some details on this. It sound similar to Epson's warranty policy where they will ship you a new or refurbished unit right away before they've had the chance to receive your broken/damaged unit. Will this JVC warranty work similarly?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on September 14, 2018, 12:37:08 PM
Mike/Craig, I also see the JVC is now offering a "3 Year Advanced Replacement Warranty" on all three of these new models. Is there any way we could get some details on this. It sound similar to Epson's warranty policy where they will ship you a new or refurbished unit right away before they've had the chance to receive your broken/damaged unit. Will this JVC warranty work similarly?

Correct. They have been does this for the RS440 / 540 and 640's. But, if you have a " golden sample ", you can elect to have your projector repaired instead.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on September 14, 2018, 09:54:06 PM
Mike, I see you have a list of questions to ask JVC about these new units. If you get the chance can you ask if JVC has improved the DiLA panel's response time with these new 3rd generation 4K panels? The latest 6th generation 1080p DiLA panels had a claimed response time of 4ms GTG. I'm wondering if this has been improved any, possibly getting closer to Sony's 2.5ms GTG response time.

Sure.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on September 14, 2018, 09:55:37 PM
Mike/Craig, I also see JVC is now offering a "3 Year Advanced Replacement Warranty" on all three of these new models. Is there any way we could get some details on this. It sound similar to Epson's warranty policy where they will ship you a new or refurbished unit right away before they've had the chance to receive your broken/damaged unit. Will this JVC warranty work similarly?

Yes, much like Epson. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on September 17, 2018, 03:39:01 PM
This is going to be a very nice projector !

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41521109_10217148359002125_3852293950333255680_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e3fbebf77b690dde5ca6647ee75a82be&oe=5C196CBA)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 17, 2018, 05:09:12 PM
This is going to be a very nice projector !

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41521109_10217148359002125_3852293950333255680_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=e3fbebf77b690dde5ca6647ee75a82be&oe=5C196CBA)

The RS2000 seems to be the projector getting the least coverage (and probably rightfully so), but I think is the sweet spot in performance. Unless you just have to have that big lens!

What I think it's all going to boil down to is how much native contrast do the three of these projectors have with the iris fully open (or close to it). With HDR we want as much brightness as possible. Even with tonemapping we still want to have as much brightness as we can. The less brightness to work with, the more image artifacts there's going to be when doing the tone mapping because the software will need to truncate the dynamic range of the image down even further. I'm hoping for something like this:

JVC DLA-RS1000 = 17,000:1 native contrast at max zoom/iris open

JVC DLA-RS2000 = 25,000:1 native contrast at max zoom/iris open

JVC DLA-RS3000 = 32,000:1 native contrast at max zoom/iris open
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 20, 2018, 05:05:11 AM
I just got an email from Leo Bodnar. His new 4K input lag tester is finally out:

http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=89&products_id=317

It's a little pricey though. I'm curious as to how most other reviewers and end users were measuring input lag on these native 4K units before. I have a hard time believing most of them are using the CRT method. So were they using the 1080p tester and reporting lag with internal scaling enabled?

This is a bit off topic but I didn't know where else to post it. I might buy one to use on these native 4K models.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on September 20, 2018, 10:31:08 AM
The RS2000 seems to be the projector getting the least coverage (and probably rightfully so), but I think is the sweet spot in performance. Unless you just have to have that big lens!

What I think it's all going to boil down to is how much native contrast do the three of these projectors have with the iris fully open (or close to it). With HDR we want as much brightness as possible. Even with tonemapping we still want to have as much brightness as we can. The less brightness to work with, the more image artifacts there's going to be when doing the tone mapping because the software will need to truncate the dynamic range of the image down even further. I'm hoping for something like this:

JVC DLA-RS1000 = 17,000:1 native contrast at max zoom/iris open

JVC DLA-RS2000 = 25,000:1 native contrast at max zoom/iris open

JVC DLA-RS3000 = 32,000:1 native contrast at max zoom/iris open

It's going to be interesting seeing where these do actually measure contrast wise !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 20, 2018, 06:22:59 PM
It's going to be interesting seeing where these do actually measure contrast wise !

It's funny that people seem to be put off quite a bit by the iris fully closed, minimum zoom contrast numbers when in reality it's the iris fully open/max brightness number that matters more as that's the typical scenario most of us are going to be running our projectors at anyways, maybe with the iris stopped down a little. I have a funny feeling the max brightness contrast numbers aren't going to be that far off from where the eshift models were. Hopefully within 20%. And with the boost in ANSI contrast I don't think we'll be missing out too much contrast wise. On the bottom end the DI should help with extremely dark content.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on September 21, 2018, 01:39:05 PM
It's funny that people seem to be put off quite a bit by the iris fully closed, minimum zoom contrast numbers when in reality it's the iris fully open/max brightness number that matters more as that's the typical scenario most of us are going to be running our projectors at anyways, maybe with the iris stopped down a little. I have a funny feeling the max brightness contrast numbers aren't going to be that far off from where the eshift models were. Hopefully within 20%. And with the boost in ANSI contrast I don't think we'll be missing out too much contrast wise. On the bottom end the DI should help with extremely dark content.

I agree and have made the same comment. Everybody looks at 130,000 vs 80,000, but that is fully closed and the gap is usually much smaller, when fully open.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on September 21, 2018, 03:10:24 PM
It's funny that people seem to be put off quite a bit by the iris fully closed, minimum zoom contrast numbers when in reality it's the iris fully open/max brightness number that matters more as that's the typical scenario most of us are going to be running our projectors at anyways, maybe with the iris stopped down a little. I have a funny feeling the max brightness contrast numbers aren't going to be that far off from where the eshift models were. Hopefully within 20%. And with the boost in ANSI contrast I don't think we'll be missing out too much contrast wise. On the bottom end the DI should help with extremely dark content.

Now you are being realistic and practical - we can't have that !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: jive turkey on September 22, 2018, 07:03:19 PM
I agree and have made the same comment. Everybody looks at 130,000 vs 80,000, but that is fully closed and the gap is usually much smaller, when fully open.

I got to thinking about this....did you possibly typo and mean 1,300,000 to 800,000:1 fully closed? Yes, the gap is smaller between 130,000 and 80,000:1 fully open.

Is it visibly significant between 130,000 and 80,000:1 (fully open, properly calibrated)?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 23, 2018, 12:36:45 PM
@ARROW-AV I saw on the other forum you discussing the dynamic iris implementation on these upcoming JVCs. I have to disagree with you about part of your theory. While it may be true that with higher native contrast you can program an iris to start clamping down at a lower APL level versus a projector with more limited native contrast, I don't think that's what going to happen with these JVC models. I just don't think JVC is going to pay to have three separate lines of code made up, aka unique code for each model. Unless you can confirm this, I would have to argue that the dynamic iris implementation, in software, will be the exact same between all three of these new projectors. I say this judging this from previous JVC eshift models. All of them appeared to have the same DI implementation across the line up each year. I have specific test video that I use when comparing or reviewing dynamic irises and all of the eshift models tripped up and functioned pretty much exactly the same through these video clips.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: lygren on September 23, 2018, 11:45:59 PM
A colleague of mine was just at a London launch event for the new JVC lineup and JVC officials basically confirmed that contrast will indeed be improved rather than the opposite on the new units. Why? Well, the new gen. chips are smaller, and as such, the amount of scattered light throughout the engine is reduced. The reason for the new, somewhat lower figures is simply based on JVC wanting to relate their specs more true to life... We´ll see, we´ll see... ;)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Javs on September 24, 2018, 02:43:13 AM
A colleague of mine was just at a London launch event for the new JVC lineup and JVC officials basically confirmed that contrast will indeed be improved rather than the opposite on the new units. Why? Well, the new gen. chips are smaller, and as such, the amount of scattered light throughout the engine is reduced. The reason for the new, somewhat lower figures is simply based on JVC wanting to relate their specs more true to life... We´ll see, we´ll see... ;)

Improved in relation to what? The eshift units or the Z1?

I am very interested in what the wide open iris to max contrast ratio is going to be.

Are you suggesting JVC is being very conservative in the contrast specs?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: lygren on September 24, 2018, 03:45:04 AM
Improved in relation to what? The eshift units or the Z1?

I am very interested in what the wide open iris to max contrast ratio is going to be.

Are you suggesting JVC is being very conservative in the contrast specs?

Yes, they were comparing it to the current e-shifts for sure... As for how conservative - I guess it´s hard to tell until the units are here and can be properly assessed, but they certainly have included the use of the iris as per their normal routine, but I would be surprised if the native with the iris open is not an improvement compared to the Z1 due to the use of phosphor among other challenges using the current implementation of the laser engine as such...
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 24, 2018, 06:11:40 AM
Maybe they meant ANSI contrast?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on September 24, 2018, 07:29:01 AM
I find it strange that JVC reps say the contrast is more true to life ( I also spoke to Lygrens collegue), as all JVC models in the later generations I have measured have been close to spec with the iris set to -15. They dont have much light available at -15, but none the less they are close to spec. What I find to be far from spec is the dynamic contrast.

I am quite sure these new models will not be a big upgrade compared to the 1080p e-shift models and if I dont buy this gen I will do a side by side with my Cineversum and a N7 to see if I am right. Less contrast, same lens, same lamp+++ does not convince me even if it is native 4K and maybe has a little more ANSI most rooms (even batcaves) can not take advantage of. But there is a possibility I will buy a N5 or N7 if I can sell my Cineversum BW2 for the right amount of money. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: lygren on September 24, 2018, 11:18:30 AM
Yes and yes, they might have meant ANSI, and yes, contrast with the iris clamped down might not be better than the current gen e-shifts (but perhaps somewhat better contrast with the iris wide open due to less scattering as a result of the smaller chip - at least that makes sense in theory...;))... Let´s wait and see, should not be too long now until we receive some initial units for test at our end at least as we will showcase the release of these models in Norway. Currently the units meant for this introduction event is pending an important firmware update to hopefully get the iris activated and probably some other stuff... ;)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on September 24, 2018, 11:25:42 AM
I got to thinking about this....did you possibly typo and mean 1,300,000 to 800,000:1 fully closed? Yes, the gap is smaller between 130,000 and 80,000:1 fully open.

Is it visibly significant between 130,000 and 80,000:1 (fully open, properly calibrated)?

No typo. Native will be closer, when iris is opened up. Talking about the RS540 at 130,000:1 and the RS2000 at 80,000:1. Those numbers are with iris closed. When open, they will be considerably less.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: TWISM on September 24, 2018, 01:28:55 PM
This might be a dumb question but I am debating between the RS2000 and RS3000. Now here is the maybe "dumb" question. My projector is mounted in a separate room and I built a box to put in the wall with some edmund optics glass. If I got with the RS3000 and the bigger lens, is the output from the projector via the lens somehow bigger? If that makes sense.

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: jive turkey on September 24, 2018, 01:30:24 PM
No typo. Native will be closer, when iris is opened up. Talking about the RS540 at 130,000:1 and the RS2000 at 80,000:1. Those numbers are with iris closed. When open, they will be considerably less.

Yeah. All these years I thought native meant wide open. I was talking to Chadb today on something else and he straightened me out; native is with the aperture closed down, and a lot less when opened up fully.

I learned something today. Something so basic, I should have known it long ago.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 24, 2018, 02:38:31 PM
Yeah. All these years I thought native meant wide open. I was talking to Chadb today on something else and he straightened me out; native is with the aperture closed down, and a lot less when opened up fully.

I learned something today. Something so basic, I should have known it long ago.

Native can mean both wide open and closed. Most people referring to native contrast are usually referring to the maximum amount of contrast available and this usually is with the iris closed. However, native on/off contrast just refers to a peak white and black level measure compared against one another when the display is in a fixed position. For a projector that means nothing in the light path moves when measuring. So all irises and settings need to remain the same when taking your measurements. But this doesn't mean it has to be fully closed. It can be at any position and as long as it doesn't move when taking the measurements it's a native contrast measurement.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on September 24, 2018, 03:58:13 PM
This might be a dumb question but I am debating between the RS2000 and RS3000. Now here is the maybe "dumb" question. My projector is mounted in a separate room and I built a box to put in the wall with some edmund optics glass. If I got with the RS3000 and the bigger lens, is the output from the projector via the lens somehow bigger? If that makes sense.

Do you really need the port glass ? How loud can it be with no glass ?

Here my RS4500 ( same lens ) -

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16427416_10211901023942028_179235836320390106_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_eui2=AeFJYnL7nVwLw2XS-8u_dNfgb5khE4nYtVI94ly1mo_7jHjSHQXMAttHlGqjwxje-UimPjVDO3CSxElpNHN1XzhkkxOhq_zHLXO2P7kTmeOpRA&oh=f7d049ff5b8384895515d28ff603bddf&oe=5C249900)

And with the Panamorph Paladin DCR lens ( which did require some re - framing - well worth it ) -

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/29664972_10215855927332141_24233434969517012_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_eui2=AeGjfOJe3YMhWy_q7t9KOywZag_L8TtF3Gzei2xp7lXtE_JvGRrQ7EQeNBoK98AciQl3hRPe17uJ42JtF0ruixdxE_2KrnHc816qQqsBCdEOpQ&oh=19f493dcd2030ecc55f6169f6edddcce&oe=5C21709C)


An RS3000 might work just fine in your current setup. That window looks fairly big.

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: jive turkey on September 24, 2018, 05:57:31 PM
Native can mean both wide open and closed. Most people referring to native contrast are usually referring to the maximum amount of contrast available and this usually is with the iris closed. However, native on/off contrast just refers to a peak white and black level measure compared against one another when the display is in a fixed position. For a projector that means nothing in the light path moves when measuring. So all irises and settings need to remain the same when taking your measurements. But this doesn't mean it has to be fully closed. It can be at any position and as long as it doesn't move when taking the measurements it's a native contrast measurement.
8)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on September 25, 2018, 12:44:03 PM
This might be a dumb question but I am debating between the RS2000 and RS3000. Now here is the maybe "dumb" question. My projector is mounted in a separate room and I built a box to put in the wall with some edmund optics glass. If I got with the RS3000 and the bigger lens, is the output from the projector via the lens somehow bigger? If that makes sense.

Judging from the ring, it looks like the opening you have made is around 4.5" in height. A 100mm lens is 3.9" in height. Also the exit image will not use anywhere close to the full lens height, so as long as you can adjust the shelf height on the back, where the lens is centered, you should be fine.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Javs on September 25, 2018, 09:54:13 PM
Mike,

The JVC documentation lists 120/240V 50/60hz in the power-supply.

Do you know if these are doing voltage switching internally, i.e. If I had a US JVC here, it would be safe to plug into my 240V outlet?

Or, are they region specific power-supplies and each region model does indeed require 120v or 240v independently for eg?

I know some electronics are smart enough to switch on their own...
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 26, 2018, 07:12:23 AM
I've heard that it's common in Japan to have voltage specific power supplies (ie 100 volts) to get people to stop exporting electronics but those units normally have their own Japan specific model number. I know Sony does this but I don't think JVC does. Simply put, it costs more to make manufacturer different SKU models and I don't think JVC is looking to do that. I would put good money on there being one power supply for all models and it does the voltage switching internally.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on September 26, 2018, 11:41:14 AM
Mike,

The JVC documentation lists 120/240V 50/60hz in the power-supply.

Do you know if these are doing voltage switching internally, i.e. If I had a US JVC here, it would be safe to plug into my 240V outlet?

Or, are they region specific power-supplies and each region model does indeed require 120v or 240v independently for eg?

I know some electronics are smart enough to switch on their own...

We need to get ahold of the manuals on these projectors.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Javs on September 27, 2018, 05:49:34 AM
I ended up checking the bottom of my 9500, and it does indeed list 100-240v 50/60hz on the actual unit.

So, I would assume the US version is no different.

Interesting anyway. I dont think I would import one. Was just curious.

I think the NX9 over there is going to be FAR cheaper than here when street price is involved.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on September 27, 2018, 07:14:20 AM
Mike,

The JVC documentation lists 120/240V 50/60hz in the power-supply.

Do you know if these are doing voltage switching internally, i.e. If I had a US JVC here, it would be safe to plug into my 240V outlet?

Or, are they region specific power-supplies and each region model does indeed require 120v or 240v independently for eg?

I know some electronics are smart enough to switch on their own...

In the past, they have always been universal power supplies, so all you had to do was have the correct power cord. I would assume that is unchanged.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 27, 2018, 08:51:16 AM
I ended up checking the bottom of my 9500, and it does indeed list 100-240v 50/60hz on the actual unit.

So, I would assume the US version is no different.

Interesting anyway. I dont think I would import one. Was just curious.

I think the NX9 over there is going to be FAR cheaper than here when street price is involved.

That's always going to be the case. It seems the US gets some of the best pricing on these JVC models for some reason. Sony seems to be the opposite. They're cheaper in the EU than they are here by a decent margin. Lucky for most of us here in the US that want to buy JVCs instead of Sony models.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Javs on September 27, 2018, 03:45:01 PM
That's always going to be the case. It seems the US gets some of the best pricing on these JVC models for some reason. Sony seems to be the opposite. They're cheaper in the EU than they are here by a decent margin. Lucky for most of us here in the US that want to buy JVCs instead of Sony models.

It is not always the case in regards to Australia. In fact, never has been.

If I told you the USD street price of what an A Stock JVC 4500 was going for here you would be shocked. We have cheaper Sony's than the US by far too... same with the bulb JVC's.

This year though, I think that winning streak is coming to an end. At least in regards to the NX9. I think the N7 is going to be quite comparable, might slightly more.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 01, 2018, 08:47:40 AM
We don't have a dedicated RS3000 thread here so I'll post this here:

(https://scontent.fewr1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42866984_10216860416653750_875084498339889152_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&oh=c3c12d9882c8b82f6b2729981e5ba722&oe=5C180DA4)

Seems like a very lucky German is getting the chance to look at a couple of the new JVC's for a day or two. I'm hoping he takes a couple contrast measurements!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Javs on October 01, 2018, 04:44:46 PM
We don't have a dedicated RS3000 thread here so I'll post this here:

(https://scontent.fewr1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/42866984_10216860416653750_875084498339889152_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&oh=c3c12d9882c8b82f6b2729981e5ba722&oe=5C180DA4)

Seems like a very lucky German is getting the chance to look at a couple of the new JVC's for a day or two. I'm hoping he takes a couple contrast measurements!

Link?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 01, 2018, 08:38:52 PM
Dunno if you'll be able to view it or not. It's on cine4home's facebook group page. I think you need to be invited to see their page:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10216860416613749&set=gm.1646460142125338&type=3&theater&ifg=1
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on October 04, 2018, 06:24:18 AM
Improvements that the new models offer over last years projectors.

Native 4K
Higher ANSI
Auto tone mapping with brightness slider
No E-shift noise
Reduced sync time
Greatly improved lens memory (explained below)
Improved lens
Improved image processing
Beefed up lens supports, so less image drift and more accurate lens memory
Vertical stretch with 4K 60P sources
USB firmware updates



Lens Memory on the RS540:

10 memories let you save:

Focus
Zoom
Shift



Installation Mode/Lens Memories on the RS1000/2000/3000/4500:

10 installation modes/memories let you save:

Focus
Zoom
Shift

Anamorphic Mode (A/B/C). Very useful with compression lenses which require zoom.

Installation Style: Not many situations for this, but I can think of a possible use.

Pixel Align: So you can have one pixel alignment for the 16x9 setting and a different if needed for the 2.35, or one for no anamorphic lens, and a different for with anamorphic lens

Screen Mode: Auto switch between two different screen materials. If using two screens and they are different material, this would be very useful.

Masking: Good for those changing aspect ratio movies.

Keystone: Not sure why you need to memorize this, when you should not even be using it.

Pincushion: Maybe you have a curved 2.35:1 screen and want Pincushion on with 2.35:1 lens memory, but you want it off with 16x9 lens memory. Another one, I think should never be used.

Aspect: Maybe you want 17:9 chip usage with 2.35:1 lens memory to get a little more brightness, but only 16x9 chip usage with 16x9 to have 1 for 1 mapping.


Also:

One of the memories can be selected to activate the 12V trigger: With a Motorized Sled for an Anamorphic Compression lens you could set a memory to zoom to screen width, engage Anamorphic mode, do the pixel adjust for that size, and then activate the 12V trigger to move the lens into place.

Easy to copy one mode to another position so you have a starting point for the next memory. Each memory name can be edited.

The same 10 discrete codes for the previous lens memory system are also used to control the 10 installation modes.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 04, 2018, 08:20:19 AM
Lots of improvements over the previous generation. These are going to be great projectors !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: rob-houston on October 04, 2018, 08:56:45 AM
Lots of improvements over the previous generation. These are going to be great projectors !

Great?

Maybe Kicka$$!

Maybe Kick Sony a$$!!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on October 05, 2018, 12:29:16 PM
Some were wondering if the lens in the 1000 and the 2000 would be the hand picked parts of the 640. Well the new 1000 and 2000 lens should outperform the 640 lens.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 05, 2018, 12:35:01 PM
Great news Mike! These new projectors can't get across the ocean fast enough! ETA is still 5-6 weeks?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 07, 2018, 11:54:59 AM
Getting the basement in my new house ready for the RS2000! Finally hung the screen today and I'm starting to put up black triple velvet material. The first 8 feet of the theater will be completely covered in this material. Floor, ceiling, walls, everything. The rest of the theater is freshly painted a medium grey color. Under the fluorescent lights it actually looks a shade purple (oops) hehe. I just installed new carpet for the room a few weeks ago too.

I'm trying to make the most of my first house. The basement isn't 100% ideal for a theater but it will be the best setup I've had so far. With the room constraints I actually had to jerry rig my EluneVision Reference 4K screen material to work with my old Carada screen frame. The EluneVision frame was too big to fit the screen and speakers width-wise in the room. In the photo you can actually see a tiny bit of the material on the underside of the frame. I need to cover that up, but it was necessary to tension the material properly. I need to build stands for the left and right speakers to go on either side of the screen. The center will go underneath the screen pitched up.

(https://i.imgur.com/TcdWzBs.jpg)



Only 7.1, maybe Atmos down the road. JTR Triple 8's for LCR, M&K surrounds and an Elemental Designs A7S-450 subwoofer. I had a Danely DTS-10 but sold it to help with closing costs for the new house.

Behind the theater is a utility room and (perfectly) shelves were installed on the wall in the there by the previous owner.  All I had to do was cut a small hole out for the projector lens. I'll probably get some trim and go around the hole to make it look a little more professional. (excuse the HDMI cord going through the hole temporarily haha)

(https://i.imgur.com/3Ia2CwJ.jpg)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Javs on October 07, 2018, 11:34:43 PM
^ Paint that rear wall black dude, thought you would know by now that the rear wall is a HUGE ANSI killer... Also given it looks like you dont have much throw at all in that room, even more important.

Gonna need a bigger hole?

The lens in the RS2000 looks to sit at least 3-4cm higher than the eshift units...
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: heyboy on October 08, 2018, 03:12:19 AM
@avsmike hi, USB firmware updates? that would be great, even more than 4k supports
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 08, 2018, 08:40:56 AM
@avsmike hi, USB firmware updates? that would be great, even more than 4k supports

Yes - the new projectors have USB for firmware updates.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 08, 2018, 08:42:48 AM
^ Paint that rear wall black dude, thought you would know by now that the rear wall is a HUGE ANSI killer... Also given it looks like you dont have much throw at all in that room, even more important.

Gonna need a bigger hole?

The lens in the RS2000 looks to sit at least 3-4cm higher than the eshift units...

Ya, painting the back wall black helped a lot in my room. Basically anything the screen shines directly at. Rosco Vleour Black worked wonders - straight from the can !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 08, 2018, 08:44:22 AM
Getting the basement in my new house ready for the RS2000! Finally hung the screen today and I'm starting to put up black triple velvet material. The first 8 feet of the theater will be completely covered in this material. Floor, ceiling, walls, everything. The rest of the theater is freshly painted a medium grey color. Under the fluorescent lights it actually looks a shade purple (oops) hehe. I just installed new carpet for the room a few weeks ago too.

I'm trying to make the most of my first house. The basement isn't 100% ideal for a theater but it will be the best setup I've had so far. With the room constraints I actually had to jerry rig my EluneVision Reference 4K screen material to work with my old Carada screen frame. The EluneVision frame was too big to fit the screen and speakers width-wise in the room. In the photo you can actually see a tiny bit of the material on the underside of the frame. I need to cover that up, but it was necessary to tension the material properly. I need to build stands for the left and right speakers to go on either side of the screen. The center will go underneath the screen pitched up.

(https://i.imgur.com/TcdWzBs.jpg)



Only 7.1, maybe Atmos down the road. JTR Triple 8's for LCR, M&K surrounds and an Elemental Designs A7S-450 subwoofer. I had a Danely DTS-10 but sold it to help with closing costs for the new house.

Behind the theater is a utility room and (perfectly) shelves were installed on the wall in the there by the previous owner.  All I had to do was cut a small hole out for the projector lens. I'll probably get some trim and go around the hole to make it look a little more professional. (excuse the HDMI cord going through the hole temporarily haha)

(https://i.imgur.com/3Ia2CwJ.jpg)

Looks to be a really good setup Dylan ! And I love having the projector in another room. Congratulations on the new theater !  :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 08, 2018, 08:57:43 AM
^ Paint that rear wall black dude, thought you would know by now that the rear wall is a HUGE ANSI killer... Also given it looks like you dont have much throw at all in that room, even more important.

Gonna need a bigger hole?

The lens in the RS2000 looks to sit at least 3-4cm higher than the eshift units...

That's my plan, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 08, 2018, 10:40:09 AM
@avsmike hi, USB firmware updates? that would be great, even more than 4k supports


I've seen a few people laugh at this feature being touted as an upgrade. All I'll say is that this is a new platform for JVC and I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see several firmware updates over the next year for these new native 4K models. Having a USB-A port will be extremely handy. RS-232 is just a pain in the you know what to use. Most people don't own PC's with a 9 pin RS-232 port which forces people to use USB adapters and most of us here know about the variability in compatibility these adapters have.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 08, 2018, 11:09:39 AM
Pre - order pricing for the new JVC's ends this Sunday the 14th - you have been warned !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 09, 2018, 03:37:33 PM
I just noticed this write up of a pre-production review of the N5 (RS1000) on a German website:

https://www.lowbeats.de/exklusiv-vorabtest-jvc-dla-n5-4k-einsteiger-projektor/

Translated
Quote
I already knew from previous tests that this lens is very sharp down to the corners. But now it has to prove with discrete 4K resolution and therefore more than four times as many pixels. And that made it good.

Sure, it does not quite reach the quality of the mega lens of the already tested big brother JVC DLA-NX9B, but it comes amazingly close and up to the corners painted all eight million pixels as clear, tiny squares. Only with strong lens shift, the sharpness to the edge of the lenses naturally lessened slightly. Thus on test pictures even scripts with only a few pixel resolution could be read crystal clear.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 10, 2018, 07:47:45 AM
It looked damn sharp at Cedia.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 11, 2018, 02:52:30 PM
About 72 hours left to get a new JVC at pre - order prices !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 12, 2018, 04:33:19 PM
Only about 48 hours left to pre - order a new JVC. Email us over the weekend to get on the list !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on October 15, 2018, 10:41:25 AM
Preorder will be extended until projectors ship to us.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: BigScreen on October 15, 2018, 11:22:58 AM
Just when I thought I had successfully resisted the siren song of pre-order pricing in the name of patient resolve... Someone better lash me to the mast until we have passed those sirens calling from the shore!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 15, 2018, 11:38:50 AM
Just when I thought I had successfully resisted the siren song of pre-order pricing in the name of patient resolve... Someone better lash me to the mast until we have passed those sirens calling from the shore!

" Look deep into my lens, you're getting sleepy, sleepy. When I count to three, you will call and pre-order me ".  ;D

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41492878_10217148391562939_2658599200199016448_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_eui2=AeGe6vRexH5SXRG7rdS9bcuWlYi6Y33fz6VZlcQBl2uawUf3T_Rkyrsfncidk4poprOC0lvz-XgxnwZbIggTYswDnO30hdElq_6Z013eD8wF1g&oh=7a03a797e6210383dc5b662912fe3a83&oe=5C4AE8AA)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 18, 2018, 07:05:31 AM
I've seen a few measurements taken from the N9 over the past few weeks. JVC must be giving them strict guidelines on what can be made public knowledge. Out of the 3 or 4 pre-production write ups I've seen, I'm only seeing color gamut coverage CIE charts given out. No word on calibrated lumen output, contrast or any other type of objective measurements. The NX9 can do 103% of the P3 color gamut, but at what cost to light output? I surely hope it's not actually the 20-30% reduction in lumen output talked about at CEDIA and IFA.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpTh2fjXgAEq-c4.jpg)

Source:

https://twitter.com/InvisionVideo
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 18, 2018, 09:00:47 AM
Are there even any finished production units with finalized firmware available to measure ? I doubt it.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 18, 2018, 10:02:07 AM
Firmware is one thing, but the native performance of the light engine should be relatively close to what the production units are going to be. Unless major hardware changes have been made since the pre-production units were manufactured then I highly doubt we'd see a big difference in lumen output and contrast compared to a finalized production model.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on October 18, 2018, 01:06:38 PM
Firmware is one thing, but the native performance of the light engine should be relatively close to what the production units are going to be. Unless major hardware changes have been made since the pre-production units were manufactured then I highly doubt we'd see a big difference in lumen output and contrast compared to a finalized production model.

I agree. I would have loved for JVC to set a limit of 15% light loss and whatever the DCI coverage came to be, let that be the number. I don't care if it does not reach 100%. I would much rather have 98% and only 15% light loss vs 103% and 30% light loss. Too much light loss and it becomes unusable. I tried to explain this to JVC, but not sure the factory gets it. We will have to see where this ends up. If it is 103% and 20%, I can live with that, but if it is 30%, I doubt I use the filter.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 18, 2018, 02:03:48 PM
The odd thing is that I thought JVC's engineers understood that given the eshift models got to about 99-100% of the P3 gamut. It seems they were doing just that; more saturation with minimal light loss. A 10-15% loss of lumen output is/was acceptable to most to gain color saturation. I doubt most people will use the filter if a 25-30% drop in brightness happens. After all, HDR is about specular highlights and cutting off 25%+ of your usable brightness doesn't make much sense to me whereas the ~10% light loss seemed like an acceptable trade off. So I don't know if this is about bragging rights (so on paper it's better than what Sony offers) or if they're doing it for some other reason.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on October 19, 2018, 03:36:46 AM
Hi Dylan,

There is at least one other reason I can think of, which is to make sure that it’s always possible to cover 100% of P3 for all units at all times. Some units have an undersaturated gamut from day one (most often due to a wrong hue for a too yellow green, which makes all the points between green and blue (including cyan) undersaturated at 100% sat. I think this is why THX uses the filter even for rec709. Other units are fine when new, but can get undersaturated at 100% sat over time. Nothing that a good calibration can’t take care of for the most part (as there is little to no actual content between 90% and 100% sat), but still annoying if you are after absolute color accuracy.

So yes, getting 100% with the filter and 90% without is fine if all units can achieve this and if that remains the case over time, but it’s not really okay if you end up with 80% without the filter and only 90% with it. Some can’t even reach 100% of rec-709 without the filter after a few thousand hours!

So I know this isn’t a popular stance but I for one applaud JVC’s decision to extend gamut cover with the filter enabled, if a stronger brightness loss with the filter translates into a proportional increase in gamut cover. If we lose 30% to get 103% of gamut cover instead of a 10% loss to get 97% (as in the current eshift models), then of course I agree it doesn’t make much sense. We’ll see!

According to Ricky, the native gamut on the new models doesn’t reach P3 red anymore without the filter, so that might explain some of the additional light loss if it’s not only a green filter.

Another reason is that there are more and more UHD Bluray titles reported as being mastered to BT2020 (including films, possibly because they were mastered to be shown in Dolby Vision for the cinema which is BT2020, not DCI-P3), so if there is indeed content above P3 in these titles (which remains to be seen), then it makes sense to slowly get towards the actual standard, which is BT2020... by 2020. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 19, 2018, 07:47:27 AM
Hi Dylan,

There is at least one other reason I can think of, which is to make sure that it’s always possible to cover 100% of P3 for all units at all times. Some units have an undersaturated gamut from day one (most often due to a wrong hue for a too yellow green, which makes all the points between green and blue (including cyan) undersaturated at 100% sat. I think this is why THX uses the filter even for rec709. Other units are fine when new, but can get undersaturated at 100% sat over time. Nothing that a good calibration can’t take care of for the most part (as there is little to no actual content between 90% and 100% sat), but still annoying if you are after absolute color accuracy.

So yes, getting 100% with the filter and 90% without is fine if all units can achieve this and if that remains the case over time, but it’s not really okay if you end up with 80% without the filter and only 90% with it. Some can’t even reach 100% of rec-709 without the filter after a few thousand hours!

So I know this isn’t a popular stance but I for one applaud JVC’s decision to extend gamut cover with the filter enabled, if a stronger brightness loss with the filter translates into a proportional increase in gamut cover. If we lose 30% to get 103% of gamut cover instead of a 10% loss to get 97% (as in the current eshift models), then of course I agree it doesn’t make much sense. We’ll see!

According to Ricky, the native gamut on the new models doesn’t reach P3 red anymore without the filter, so that might explain some of the additional light loss if it’s not only a green filter.

Another reason is that there are more and more UHD Bluray titles reported as being mastered to BT2020 (including films, possibly because they were mastered to be shown in Dolby Vision for the cinema which is BT2020, not DCI-P3), so if there is indeed content above P3 in these titles (which remains to be seen), then it makes sense to slowly get towards the actual standard, which is BT2020... by 2020. :)

I remember reading an article a few years back stating that there is next to nothing out there in the natural world that has saturation past the P3 gamut. This is why the P3 gamut coverage was chosen for the DCI standard. Most things that are greater than P3 are artificial. Think neon lights in Vegas. Sometimes animated films will also grade the color to go past P3 too. But as you insinuate this content is few and far between.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on October 19, 2018, 08:05:26 AM
I remember reading an article a few years back stating that there is next to nothing out there in the natural world that has saturation past the P3 gamut. This is why the P3 gamut coverage was chosen for the DCI standard. Most things that are greater than P3 are artificial. Think neon lights in Vegas. Sometimes animated films will also grade the color to go past P3 too. But as you insinuate this content is few and far between.

That was before UHD TV, UHD Bluray and Dolby Vision Cinema, when there was no content with a larger gamut than film mastered for DCI (Digital Cinema). Today, many titles released in Dolby Vision Cinema are graded to BT2020 with a Christie projector. Inside Out and many other titles were actually using the larger gamut in Dolby cinemas. So potentially all the titles released in Dolby Vision at the cinemas (see https://www.dolby.com/us/en/cinema/theatrical-releases.html) can be mastered to BT2020 on UHD Bluray. Note that Dolby Vision at Dolby Cinema doesn't mean the same as Dolby Vision for consumer content. Dolby Vision at the cinema means a specific HDR grade at 107nits peak (48nits diffuse) white, and BT2020 gamut. So wider gamut and higher dynamic range than DCI, which is not top dog anymore content wise. Also the UHD TV standard calls for BT2020 and doesn't care at all about DCI, so content can be shot and edited directly in BT2020, which is why many nature documentaries (initially shot for TV) are released on UHD Bluray reporting a BT2020 grading.

While almost all the UHD Bluray titles released over the last couple of years were mastered to DCI-P3, more and more are reporting BT2020 mastering, and not only animation titles. As mentioned above, nature documentary and even some movies report this. Whether there is any actual content above P3 for these titles hasn't been established yet, but I need a display with above P3 cover to be able to test for this. :) I certainly will report on this whenever I get a chance, as I have about half of the titles reportedly graded on a BT2020 monitor (which again doesn't mean content goes above P3, but it is possible).

[EDIT: regarding your statement that there are no colors in nature that are not covered by DCI-P3, I don't think this is true. As far as I know BT2020 is the only gamut that fully covers Pointer's gamut. DCI-P3 leaves out a lot of cyan and magenta. See here https://dot-color.com/category/color-gamut-standards/ for an explanation/illustration].
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 19, 2018, 08:19:50 AM
Yes, I'm aware of all this. Again, the important thing to take away is that, while the color points are encoded for REC2020, it doesn't mean the content is taking full advantage of the saturation potential. And again, the titles that do this are not numerous.

I also think it's important to note that while there are commercial Dolby Vision graded titles out there it doesn't mean much in the way for UHD blu-ray titles. I say this because of the drastic difference in grading that needs to be done for the UHD bluray. Much different EOTF/gamma and as such I have a hard time believing the two grades look anything similar when finished. Color more than likely will look different between the two grades as well.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on October 19, 2018, 08:22:25 AM
Yes, I'm aware of all this. Again, the important thing to take away is that, while the color points are encoded for REC2020, it doesn't mean the content is taking full advantage of the saturation potential. And again, the titles that do this are not numerous.

I also think it's important to note that while there are commercial Dolby Vision graded titles out there it doesn't mean much in the way for UHD blu-ray titles. I say this because of the drastic difference in grading that needs to be done for the UHD bluray. Much different EOTF/gamma and as such I have a hard time believing the two grades look anything similar when finished. Color more than likely will look different between the two grades as well.

Yes, that's exactly what I stated. Re quantity, it was about one obscure documentary over the last two years, and it's up to 10-20 in just a few months (including film titles such as Blade Runner 2049 US, Ready Player One, Game of Thrones, The Incredibles, etc), so the trend is going up and we're talking mainstream titles.

In any case, the content point is not the most important reason I was stating, at least for the next couple of years. The gamut cover when new and over time is a far more important reason - in my opinion - to have some "headroom" re P3 cover, provided it doesn't come at the cost of too much brightness drop for too little cover gained.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DavidHir on October 19, 2018, 09:39:28 AM
Yeah, it's one of the challenges of home front projection within the world of UHD.  It's as if we're always trying to play catch up whether it be reaching native 4K, getting sufficient wide color gamut, improved tone mapping, and all the while trying to get sufficient brightness at "reasonable" enough  pricing.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 19, 2018, 02:02:27 PM
Yes, that's exactly what I stated. Re quantity, it was about one obscure documentary over the last two years, and it's up to 10-20 in just a few months (including film titles such as Blade Runner 2049 US, Ready Player One, Game of Thrones, The Incredibles, etc), so the trend is going up and we're talking mainstream titles.

In any case, the content point is not the most important reason I was stating, at least for the next couple of years. The gamut cover when new and over time is a far more important reason - in my opinion - to have some "headroom" re P3 cover, provided it doesn't come at the cost of too much brightness drop for too little cover gained.

Even if it's 10-20 now that still doesn't mean much. How many pixels in all the frames of these films have saturation beyond P3? That's what matters. It's a matter of usefulness in how often that >100% P3 saturation will be utilized and at what cost getting that saturation means. This is like arguing you have a subwoofer that can go flat down to 5hz outputting at 110+dB and that it's important that your system meets this performance metric. How many films have sub-bass that requires a system to go that low? I'm sure there are some films out there, but not many. The same thing applies here. I would rather have a sub that sounds better (tighter, more articulate, ect) down to 10 or 15hz than a sub that sounds worse which is flat down to 5hz, with bass this low happening only a handful of times. I would rather get 97-100% P3 coverage with minimal light loss rather than 103% if it's going to take away image brightness, which ultimately means image quality as far as HDR is concerned.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on October 19, 2018, 02:03:25 PM
Even if it's 10-20 now that still doesn't mean much. How many pixels in all the frames of these films have saturation beyond P3? That's what matters. It's a matter of usefulness in how often that >100% P3 saturation will be utilized and at what cost getting that saturation means. This is like arguing you have a subwoofer that can go flat down to 5hz outputting at 110+dB and that it's important that your system needs this performance metric. How many films have sub-bass that requires a system to go that low? I'm sure there are some films out there, but not many. The same thing applies here. I would rather have a sub that sounds better (tighter, more articulate, ect) down to 10 or 15hz than a sub that sounds worse which is flat down to 5hz. I would rather get 97-100% P3 coverage with minimal light loss rather than 103% if it's going to take away image brightness, which ultimately means image quality as far as HDR is concerned.

I have no idea why you're rewording what I'm saying, we're not in disagreement :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 19, 2018, 02:05:24 PM
I read the 'one obscure, now 10-20' statement as you trying to argue it's catching on more and more so >P3 saturation will start to matter more. I guess I just misunderstood your intentions.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on October 19, 2018, 02:16:15 PM
I read the 'one obscure, now 10-20' statement as you trying to argue it's catching on more and more so >P3 saturation will start to matter more. I guess I just misunderstood your intentions.

No, I said that until we have both a display able to display more than P3 and content having effectively more than P3 it doesn't matter, as we know metadata by itself doesn't mean much. I also said that this point wasn't the most important in my list, compared to the other two reasons I listed. I also said from my very first post that if it was to get 103% of P3 at the cost of 30% brightness loss, it didn't make much sense, so really we're saying the same thing.

Until we've established whether there is content over P3 in the growing number of titles reporting BT2020 mastering in the metadata, this is a moot point. If, however, these titles do include content that frequently goes above P3, then it's going to become more and more relevant for those of us who care about showing content as optimally as possible. I'm not convinced that the difference will be huge, as even the difference between rec-709 and P3 isn't night and day on most titles. There is certainly not a huge difference between 90% of P3 and 100% of P3 if the display is well calibrated, that's for sure.

I also said I planned to test for this (I have a few different ways in mind, as I'm not going to rely on visual impression that would mean nothing), and I'll report back when I have hard data. Hopefully then we'll know how relevant the growing number of titles reporting being mastered to BT2020 is :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on October 19, 2018, 07:52:55 PM
The odd thing is that I thought JVC's engineers understood that given the eshift models got to about 99-100% of the P3 gamut. It seems they were doing just that; more saturation with minimal light loss. A 10-15% loss of lumen output is/was acceptable to most to gain color saturation. I doubt most people will use the filter if a 25-30% drop in brightness happens. After all, HDR is about specular highlights and cutting off 25%+ of your usable brightness doesn't make much sense to me whereas the ~10% light loss seemed like an acceptable trade off. So I don't know if this is about bragging rights (so on paper it's better than what Sony offers) or if they're doing it for some other reason.

Heck, 91% would beat all the Sony projectors, except for the 5000. :)
If JVC can do 90% without filter and over 100% with filter and light loss is not too bad, then it gets to be a tough choice, filter or no filter. :) 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 23, 2018, 07:37:07 AM
Reposting this here. If you didn't see it on the other forum, someone measured a pre-production N5 and was able to get between 20,000:1 and 40,000:1 native contrast with the iris open and closed respectively. This ties in nicely with JVC's claimed contrast numbers. I'm expecting the RS2000 to come in closer to 30,000:1 native iris wide open, but of course, we'll see in a few weeks when people get production units delivered. Though I suspect that 20,000:1 number will lower to what I had guessed a month or so back once calibrated:

Quote
JVC DLA-RS1000 = 17,000:1 native contrast at max zoom/iris open

JVC DLA-RS2000 = 25,000:1 native contrast at max zoom/iris open

JVC DLA-RS3000 = 32,000:1 native contrast at max zoom/iris open
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on October 23, 2018, 07:57:09 AM
Ricky also posted P3 measurements on his Twitter account:

"P3 coverage of the engineering sample of @jvc DLA N5. 92.7% in high lamp, and 88.5% in low lamp."

Sounds pretty good without a filter.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 23, 2018, 08:06:30 AM
That's excellent considering the older models were averaging max 90% without a filter.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on October 23, 2018, 09:02:57 AM
Yes, thought this was great results for the 1000. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 24, 2018, 05:02:55 PM
N5/N7/NX9 User Manual:

http://www33.jvckenwood.com/pdfs/download.php?Model=DLA%2DN7B&File=B5A%2D2809%2D04

Should be the same as the RS1000, RS2000, RS3000 manual.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 24, 2018, 05:42:45 PM
Very descriptive user manual compared to previous years:

(https://i.imgur.com/ci5rvLm.png)

 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 24, 2018, 06:55:23 PM
Where did you find that ? Nice !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 24, 2018, 06:58:00 PM
Check the last post on the previous page. I posted a link.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DLCPhoto on October 25, 2018, 03:51:59 AM
I read the manual yesterday as well, and was pleased to find this graphic description of the various adjustments.

But while I understand conceptually, and in terms of what it's doing to the image's histogram (I think in terms of photographic still images), what these adjustments do, I think it would have been better to use the same image to demonstrate the changes the different controls make.

With the ones they use, the bright and dark level adjustments, left to right, still seem to add brightness throughout the tonal range, just as the picture tone adjustment does.  Looking at the bright level photos, the foreground, which contains the most darker shadows, brightens up considerably as the adjustment is made left to right.  Similarly, with the dark level photos, the bright areas increase quite a bit as well.

So I'm not convinced these pictures actually demonstrate what these individual controls are in fact designed to do.

I would hope the actual effect is more precise than these photos would indicate, with DL and BL more selectively adjusting the Dark and Bright areas respectively, while leaving the other areas alone.  Perhaps some of us can provide a better set of pictures once these units are in our hands!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: BigScreen on October 25, 2018, 08:09:42 AM
Let's hope the engineers are more detail-oriented than the manual writers and proofreaders...
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 25, 2018, 08:58:12 AM
Check the last post on the previous page. I posted a link.

The manuals weren't on the RS1000 / 2000 JVC website pages yesterday. Didn't think to look at the NX website.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 25, 2018, 10:34:42 AM
I like the new anamorphic modes on these !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on October 25, 2018, 02:28:58 PM
Training video on the new models by JVC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=25&v=Jglx_nc5Wkg
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 25, 2018, 03:48:49 PM
Webinar was yesterday and the JVC guy doing the presentation said N7/N9 units ship "end of October", ie now and are available mid November. So 2-3 weeks?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 25, 2018, 03:55:38 PM
Also something to note.... JVC expects the X790/RS540 to remain in stock only until about April or May. Once JVC is out of 1080p DiLA chips that's it. From here on out only 4K DiLA chips will be made.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on October 26, 2018, 07:20:43 AM
Webinar was yesterday and the JVC guy doing the presentation said N7/N9 units ship "end of October", ie now and are available mid November. So 2-3 weeks?

No. New info came out yesterday. Delay for all three models. Will not arrive in US until end of November. :( 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 26, 2018, 07:53:36 AM
Hopefully they are being conservative, and some start shipping sooner. Who knows. Anyway, 4 more weeks won't kill anybody.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DavidHir on October 26, 2018, 09:49:34 AM
Hopefully they are being conservative, and some start shipping sooner. Who knows. Anyway, 4 more weeks won't kill anybody.

Some people act like it's the end.  One guy was alluding he was on the verge of going with the 695 because he cannot wait any longer...before this delay.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on October 26, 2018, 11:42:24 AM
Some people act like it's the end.  One guy was alluding he was on the verge of going with the 695 because he cannot wait any longer...before this delay.

That's silly. It's not like they are being asked to not eat food for a month until that new restaurant opens up. 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 26, 2018, 11:59:29 AM
The irony is that most people currently own an eshift v4/v5 projector or a previous generation Sony 4K model. Projectors that look quite excellent in their own right which I'm sure can and will hold people over for a few more weeks.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: woofer on October 26, 2018, 11:14:58 PM
The irony is that most people currently own an eshift v4/v5 projector or a previous generation Sony 4K model. Projectors that look quite excellent in their own right which I'm sure can and will hold people over for a few more weeks.

Nope...As soon as the NEW projectors were announced, the image that was once deemed "spectacular / best ever" ...suddenly degraded to an unacceptable level!  ;D
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 27, 2018, 07:26:25 AM
I think a couple people sold their only projector and are literally without a projector. I do feel a little bad for them. I sold my RS500 a month or so before these new models were announced to try and get as much money as I could for it. Luckily I had an X500 (eshift v3) as a back up. Still, it's quite the backup projector with excellent image quality which I'm fine with using for a few more weeks until we get the new models. As long as we get them before Christmas I think I'll be happy but hopefully before then!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on November 05, 2018, 05:18:16 PM
I think a couple people sold their only projector and are literally without a projector. I do feel a little bad for them. I sold my RS500 a month or so before these new models were announced to try and get as much money as I could for it. Luckily I had an X500 (eshift v3) as a back up. Still, it's quite the backup projector with excellent image quality which I'm fine with using for a few more weeks until we get the new models. As long as we get them before Christmas I think I'll be happy but hopefully before then!

I sold real early, First of February, but got an RS640 for fill in, so not hurting too bad. :) 
I will move the 640 to my family room setup.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 05, 2018, 05:29:19 PM
I sold real early, First of February, but got an RS640 for fill in, so not hurting too bad. :) 
I will move the 640 to my family room setup.

Not too shabby for a "family room" setup haha :D
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on November 06, 2018, 07:45:54 AM
Not too shabby for a "family room" setup haha :D

Definitely not. I still have to upgrade the AVR in the family room to a 4K unit and then that system will be 4K. May add Atmos to that system at some point.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on November 06, 2018, 08:41:06 AM
Here is a link to the RS1000 / 2000 / 3000 owners manual, for anyone that wants it -

http://books.jvc.com/booklist.asp?Model=DLA-RS1000
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on November 14, 2018, 01:36:24 PM
RS3000 tone mapping on Mad Max.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 14, 2018, 03:28:04 PM
I'm hoping we're getting pretty close to a delivery date!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on November 15, 2018, 06:36:48 AM
I'm hoping we're getting pretty close to a delivery date!

As of right now, thinking they will be headed to us around end of the month.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 20, 2018, 02:41:13 PM
An early x-mas present for myself showed up at work today. Now I have something to take my mind off the RS2000 for a few weeks until I get one in house. Monitor Audio Platinum PL100 II's. Beautiful finish on these rivaling high end furniture:

(https://i.imgur.com/WPx1f8Q.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/tmQLH2o.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/JbF6rZx.jpg?1)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on November 20, 2018, 03:18:52 PM
Very nice !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on November 21, 2018, 06:47:31 AM
I bet those sound very good. Love AMT tweeters. Craig's Martin Logans and my DIY LCR's use AMT tweeters.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 21, 2018, 08:04:40 AM
They sound wonderful. The pair of speakers I had before this sounded excellent in their own right, but wow, these are just on another level. Monitor Audio's modified AMT tweeter design allows them to get rid of the distinctive null most AMT tweeters have at certain frequencies. They claim flat response all the way up to 100khz (not that we hear anywhere near that high), but it's quite an impressive tweeter.

I'm using a PS Audio Directstream DAC and a Nelson Pass designed class A amp with these. It's a wonderful front end. For bass I'm using a pair of B&W PV1D subwoofers (one for each channel). They simply take over where the PL100 II's start to roll off.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: rob-houston on November 21, 2018, 09:27:50 AM
They sound wonderful. The pair of speakers I had before this sounded excellent in their own right, but wow, these are just on another level. Monitor Audio's modified AMT tweeter design allows them to get rid of the distinctive null most AMT tweeters have at certain frequencies. They claim flat response all the way up to 100khz (not that we hear anywhere near that high), but it's quite an impressive tweeter.

I'm using a PS Audio Directstream DAC and a Nelson Pass designed class A amp with these. It's a wonderful front end. For bass I'm using a pair of B&W PV1D subwoofers (one for each channel). They simply take over where the PL100 II's start to roll off.

Nice speakers! ENJOY!  :)  8)

Have you seen "umr" posts in the "NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread" on the other forum?

Hope you and Zombie get your new projectors soon. Looking forward to your reviews!  :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 21, 2018, 09:42:40 AM
Nice speakers! ENJOY!  :)  8)

Have you seen "umr" posts in the "NEW JVC RS3000/NX9 RS2000/N7 RS1000/N5 Native 4K Projectors Anticipation Thread" on the other forum?

Hope you and Zombie get your new projectors soon. Looking forward to your reviews!  :)

Yeah, I read Jeff's post. If you follow his twitter account he posts all the time about reoccurring SXRD panel degradation issues. However I have noticed a decline in twitter posts talking about the issue. Now I know why. It's just crazy to me that Sony hasn't fixed this issue completely. Its been an issue with SXRD for 10+ years and THEY KNOW ABOUT IT. That's the most distressing part. It does seem they've put in "countermeasures" (their terminology) which tells me theyre just masking the issue not fixing the root cause.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DavidHir on November 21, 2018, 04:08:15 PM
I wonder if it's just going to take a complete redesign from ground up (where they don't want to spend the money), or they really don't know how to fix it.  I agree, it's rather odd as the issue as always existed starting with the SXRD RPTVs from the mid 2000s.  But at the same time, Sony probably figures only a small amount of people care and an equal (or greater?) number of people defend their products relentlessly and even deny the issue exists to this day. 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 21, 2018, 04:21:49 PM
It's also one of those things that happens slowly over time. It's not something you're going to notice from one day to the next. So that really helps Sony not lose too many sales as most people aren't even aware of the issue.

I've shared this story before, but the first SXRD unit I had in house was a B-Stock VW90ES that I bought from Mike at AVScience. At the time, I had a Sharp XV-Z30000 in house too. This was long before "SXRD Degradation" was even talked about. I power the unit up for the first time and I was dumbfounded with what I saw. The black level, with the DI engaged mind you, was dramatically worse off than the Sharp Z30K. I thought I had the unit set up incorrectly with something within the menu system. I think I measured something like 800:1 with the DI engaged. I spent a few hours trying everything I could to fix the issue only to conclude the unit was broken. I called Mike back to let him know I had received a lemon. Obviously later I found out this was very common to see on SXRD projectors. It seems the "countermeasures" help slow this degradation issues down, but based on Jeff's and Arrow's (Nigel's) experience they're still seeing these contrast, color and gamma issues on currently selling units.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DavidHir on November 21, 2018, 05:27:39 PM
In 2007, I bought a Sony 60" SXRD A3000.  I think there is a possibility that particular engine block was used in their front projection because I was in the service menu and found some codes that seem to indicate FP including one that would invert the image for front.  On any rate, I started noticing less than a year my contrast was getting worse.  The blacks just weren't as deep as I watched movies at night with the lights off.   When Chad came out for a re-cal, everything measured worse including blacks and the gamut shrunk and couldn't be improved.  The TV had a standard gamut (that was reasonably close to rec 709 out of the box) and a wide gamut option (oversaturated initially) but I had to switch to wide because the color was otherwise so dull at this point in standard mode.  However, I had to live with oversaturated colors but it was still preferable.  Not too long later, the blacks started looking to have a blue-purple look which was pretty much the final straw before I got rid of the display.

This is what I think was the last calibration report which I still managed to keep.  Talk about a mess! But this was the best it could calibrate by this point in time.

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 30, 2018, 09:16:19 AM
Seems to be delayed for an unforeseen amount of time:

(https://i.imgur.com/pSjZoYB.jpg)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: bmoney on November 30, 2018, 10:06:17 AM
wow
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on November 30, 2018, 10:44:30 AM
Hopefully they will get this corrected soon. Still, not going to happen by Xmas I'd say.

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 30, 2018, 12:26:05 PM
I wonder what the part could be. Is it image related or hardware reliability related? My guess is the later. Maybe a cooling issue that would cause premature failure of components inside?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on November 30, 2018, 04:14:26 PM
I wonder what the part could be. Is it image related or hardware reliability related? My guess is the later. Maybe a cooling issue that would cause premature failure of components inside?

Don't know, but there are preproduction units out there that are being viewed and yet no one is reporting an issue, so it is not something that is glaringly obvious.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: woofer on November 30, 2018, 09:53:26 PM
Don't know, but there are preproduction units out there that are being viewed and yet no one is reporting an issue, so it is not something that is glaringly obvious.

Yep, i have not had one glitch with the NX9 i have here... :)   Put about 30hrs on it now..
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 01, 2018, 09:32:11 AM
Yep, i have not had one glitch with the NX9 i have here... :)   Put about 30hrs on it now..

Extremely jealous you get to play with a pre-production model. Enjoy it! Are you capapble of taking some on/off contrast measurements? How does the dynamic iris appear? Can you notice it working with regular content. The old one found on the eshift units was very good overall, but could use just a little help. Sometimes I could see it flicker as if it couldn't make up it's mind on where to position itself. I took this video a long time ago to demonstrate this issue.

First video shows what the iris does and the next shows what this flicker looks like on screen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV0Xbrms1Sk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQNQXOUSU7U

This might happen a few times during most of the movies I watch. I know...not a huge issue, but it's an artifact I only see on JVC projectors. Sony, Epson and some of the better DLP units don't seem to have micro flicker of the DI,
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: dlambe10 on December 17, 2018, 09:43:06 PM
Is that flicker a common thing with JVC? I have not had a projector since my Panasonic AE7000, and have pre-ordered the NX7.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 17, 2018, 10:00:51 PM
Is that flicker a common thing with JVC? I have not had a projector since my Panasonic AE7000, and have pre-ordered the NX7.

No, it's not common. Just like all projectors with a dynamic iris, there will be some artifacts on occasion. With JVC's eshift units I might notice the dynamic iris working 2 or 3 times during a movie. This is about as good as it gets from projectors will a dynamic iris. Sony is really the only other manufacturer at this same level when it comes to dynamic iris performance.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on December 18, 2018, 08:59:56 AM
Yep, i have not had one glitch with the NX9 i have here... :)   Put about 30hrs on it now..

Any more impressions ? How many hours have you put on the NX9 now ?  Thanks.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on December 21, 2018, 06:44:43 AM
Light at the end of the tunnel. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 21, 2018, 08:44:13 AM
It looks like it's going be a very merry Christmas indeed! Great news. Hopefully we get these in-house sometime in January.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on December 21, 2018, 10:58:40 AM
I have not heard a date yet, but I suspect it will happen in January. As for preorders, they will be ending soon. We are getting close to being sold out on all three models.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on December 27, 2018, 06:02:09 PM
RS3000 preorder ends tomorrow. RS1000 and RS2000 preorder ends Monday the 31st.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 28, 2018, 06:21:13 PM
Good news. I suppose this means you're expecting to receive these new projectors soon then.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 02, 2019, 10:15:13 AM
Do we have a new ETA? I read some dealers are starting to charge people's credit cards.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 02, 2019, 12:00:46 PM
Do we have a new ETA? I read some dealers are starting to charge people's credit cards.

3000's are shipping first.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: YesAnotherTweet on January 02, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
Do we have a new ETA? I read some dealers are starting to charge people's credit cards.

I got my RS3000 UPS shipment tracking this morning (ETA 1/9). Pre-ordered from Craig. 8)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 02, 2019, 03:21:27 PM
Do we have a new ETA? I read some dealers are starting to charge people's credit cards.

Maybe the plan is RS3000's, RS2000's, RS1000's. Like 3.....2....1....Go  !!  Or not.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 02, 2019, 03:50:35 PM
Will you guys be reaching out to people who pre-ordered RS2000's soon? I haven't given my CC info yet.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 02, 2019, 04:36:53 PM
Will you guys be reaching out to people who pre-ordered RS2000's soon? I haven't given my CC info yet.

As soon as we hear they are arriving. That's not this week, but it should be soon.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: rob-houston on January 02, 2019, 04:53:12 PM
Finally some activity over here!

Make sure Seegs gets a GOOD early one so we can get some good information!!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 02, 2019, 08:23:40 PM
Will you guys be reaching out to people who pre-ordered RS2000's soon? I haven't given my CC info yet.

You welcome to call in anytime with it, but it will only be sitting there until the 2000's are ready. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 04, 2019, 11:03:41 AM
Finally some activity over here!

Make sure Seegs gets a GOOD early one so we can get some good information!!

I plan on doing a nice write up and posting some measurements too. It's been a while since I've been this excited for a projector launch!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 05, 2019, 08:28:09 AM
It's been fun reading through the anticipation thread on the other forum. Ekki defending his clearly out of focus images has given me a few laughs. He knows that JVC people are going to see these photos. If it were me, I'd purposefully make sure the JVC were in even better focus to help prove my point (if it were true) that there was some sort of deficiency in sharpness versus the competition. How can you show an issue properly when your photo is out of focus? He clearly hasn't done this and he wonders why people are claiming he has a bias towards Sony. If the JVC truly does have some sort of flaw why not help show it better by taking a photo that's in proper focus.

Interestingly enough, Ekki has only posted images of black text on a white background. This is the only way the Sony's can keep up with the JVCs in terms of resolution on screen. Once you throw color into the mix the Sony's cannot keep up. My plan is to take macro shots like the ones Ekki has posted (though in focus) and show people the kind of chroma/color resolution lost due to the issues that SXRD has trying to drive all 8.8 million pixels at once. I'm referring to the issues with posterization which robs the image of a TON of fine image detail. I will also provide the lossless PNG source image files for those who want to try it out for themselves or for those who don't believe me. I will prove once and for all that these native 4K JVCs are capable of more resolution on screen than the Sony's. While the Sony's may have 8.8 million physical pixels on screen, Sony cannot properly give all of these pixels discreet/unique color information for each frame flashed on screen which, as far as I'm concerned, means they are not true native 4K projectors. I haven't been able to do this before because with eshift you can't compare pixel to pixel between the two projectors as eshift can't map pixels on a 1:1 ratio when given a 4K source. Now we can.

I get that some people might see this as some sort of attack on Sony, but I feel that most JVC projector reviews and their owners openly talk about and discuss the issues with their JVC projectors in a very matter-of-fact way. Sony reviews and their owners seem to omit some of the more glaring issues with them. They get doubly offended compared to JVC owners when you bring these issues up and many seem to scoff at the very mention of them as if these issues weren't real. If Sony people acted like JVC people and just owned the issues with their projectors we'd all be a lot more civil towards one another. No projector is perfect, but it's healthy to discuss issues and have them out in the open. Interestingly enough, most of the glaring criticisms towards JVC projectors have been fixed over the years because owners/reviewers have been vocal about the problems. Sony hasn't fixed any of the glaring issues with their projector lineup. It makes me wonder if owners/reviewers attitude towards them (keeping them hush hush) hasn't played a role in this. If people were more open about these issues I'm sure Sony would have seen a dip in sales which would have forced them to fix the issues. So keep it up Sony fanboys...you're only hurting yourselves in the end.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 05, 2019, 12:18:49 PM
There aren't too many reviewers I trust to be consistent and impartial. Ekki isn't one of them. Those photos were a joke.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 06, 2019, 07:20:55 AM
Agreed, Craig. For a man who's used the word "objective" so many times lately in that thread, the one piece of evidence put forth (his photo of the NX9) doesn't objectively show anything. Why wasn't eshift turned off? Why wasn't the photo in focus? I know he claims he has no bias, but anyone who's spent time with JVC projectors knows that enabling eshift makes the image appear softer. Obviously a less than ideal focus from the lens will do the same thing and only snowball the image to look even less sharp.

The most interesting thing I've seen from that thread was when Arrow asked Ekki about his claims that the Sony's are capable of 50,000:1 and 80,000:1 on/off dynamic contrast. Kris measured roughly 20,000:1 on the 885ES. A far cry from 50,000:1 that Ekki somehow measured. Other reports show similar numbers to what Kris was reporting. And what was Ekki's response? I'm paraphrasing here but he said that it's not his fault that people don't know how to measure on/off contrast properly. Wow. Anyone who's ever calibrated knows measuring on/off contrast is one of the easier things to do and the results are normally repeatable as long as you have a decent meter and the black level isn't crazy dark. And with the Sony's limited contrast by comparison to the JVCs, that shouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 09:23:15 AM
He's a very knowledgeable guy and I respect him for that knowledge. I don't think he was expecting this much blow-back from the photos he posted. Maybe he thought no one was going to notice? A lot of us live and breath projectors and could tell immediately from the photos posted that something just wasn't right with that NX9. Either eshift was on or there was something wrong with that pre-production unit. You can't make out pixels at all. Was the lens on the projector in perfect focus too? I mean, one click off from ideal lens focus, eshift being enabled and the camera's lens not being in focus could have made the NX9 look that way. It's fine if these things happened on accident but it's a whole different thing if it was done on purpose to make the Sony look better than the JVC. Based on his comments and attitude, I'm leaning towards the latter. I'm going to try and get a Sony 4K in-house to do a little shootout and posting photos against my new RS2000. I have a feeling my photos won't look anything like Ekki's.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 07, 2019, 11:23:10 AM
Ekki just confirmed E-shift was turned on.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 12:11:14 PM
Very strange to use the NX9 in a mode that can't 1:1 pixel match to the Sony.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: golden04 on January 07, 2019, 01:01:55 PM
Mike, when do you get yours?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 01:28:18 PM
Very strange to use the NX9 in a mode that can't 1:1 pixel match to the Sony.

Well of course we turned it on and off to check if it made any difference. It did not. So it really does not matter in that case.

BTW, hey everybody, I just found out about this Forum

:-)

Regards,
Ekki
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 01:37:05 PM
I asked Ekki if E-shift was on in the photo and he never answered. Another poster also asked and still no answer.

Well that is because I was not on in the forum in the meantime. Simple as that.
Why is it that ever tiny thing has to lead to conspiracy theories?

Regards,
Ekki

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 01:39:59 PM
Like listing max lumens after going into the service menu and making adjustments to the white point to get max lumens. Then doing other adjustments to get max contrast and listing those numbers. Two problems. One projector is not properly calibrated and two, you can't get the max lumens and the max contrast. You can only get one or the other, because it requires different settings.

We always list calibrated numbers as well as Maximum numbers. I dont know if that gets lost in Translation sometimes, but your Assertion above is not correct.

Thanks & regards,
Ekki
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 01:52:06 PM
Interestingly enough, Ekki has only posted images of black text on a white background. This is the only way the Sony's can keep up with the JVCs in terms of resolution on screen. Once you throw color into the mix the Sony's cannot keep up.

No that was not my Intention. I posted These Pictures because People asked me about it. In the german Forum I explained the whole context and this was completely lost on AVS because the Pictures were just posted there without the corresponding explanations.

Really, I do not understand these conspracy theories. I was praising the N-series quite often during the last weeks, actually. If you want to discuss their perfomance without prejudices, let me know. ;-)

Thanks & Regards,
Ekki
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 02:21:08 PM
And what was Ekki's response? I'm paraphrasing here but he said that it's not his fault that people don't know how to measure on/off contrast properly.

No I did not say that. I said that measuring the dynamic contrast of Sony projectors is no rocket science. I also said that anyone really wondering about my numbers could have emailed my politely and I would have discussed it with him. To my surprise, nobody did that but rather put out conspiracy theories about me. And now to my surprise, you just did also not paraphrase all these offers I made either.

BTW: I have a great relation to Kris and we discuss our results openly and with respect. Unlike others, he knows what decency looks like.

Regards,
Ekki
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 07, 2019, 02:29:52 PM
We always list calibrated numbers as well as Maximum numbers. I dont know if that gets lost in Translation sometimes, but your Assertion above is not correct.

Thanks & regards,
Ekki

I'm starting to think that there could be communication failure at times with translating from German to English. At least it doesn't help.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 02:47:22 PM
No I did not say that. I said that measuring the dynamic contrast of Sony projectors is no rocket science. I also said that anyone really wondering about my numbers could have emailed my politely and I would have discussed it with him. To my surprise, nobody did that but rather put out conspiracy theories about me. And now to my surprise, you just did also not paraphrase all these offers I made either.

BTW: I have a great relation to Kris and we discuss our results openly and with respect. Unlike others, he knows what decency looks like.

Regards,
Ekki

It seems the post that I was paraphrasing has been deleted by a moderator, otherwise I would have quoted it here. My interpretation of what you said was exactly what I mentioned in the post you quoted. The insinuation was that some people apparently don't know how to measure contrast and that is why there is a discrepancy between your numbers and everyone else's. I've seen plenty of Sony 4K models over the years and none of the more recent models were able to achieve anywhere near that amount of dynamic contrast. I measure with my Minolta CL-200 at the lens on a tripod a few centimeters away because I know that the more light the meter gets for the black level reading the more accurate it is. As long as you have a quality lux meter it is very easy to get correct contrast numbers and the results are repeatable when measuring this way. Kris Deering and Nigel (Arrow-AV) have quality lux meters and know how to properly measure contrast. We bring up your dynamic contrast numbers and take issue with them because they aren't in line with what other people are reporting.

Kris and I have spoken on the phone before and we have a good rapport with one another through email and on forums like this. He's a very honest and thorough calibrator and reviewer. Hopefully you can tell him how you were able to achieve that much dynamic contrast. Maybe he can repeat your settings and measuring technique and measure the same amount of dynamic contrast that you have.

As I said above, I have a lot of respect for you. But that doesn't mean that I can't disagree with you or call things out that don't seem correct. If things were reversed I would hope you would do the same thing to me. How else are we going to know the truth about things?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 02:53:16 PM
I'm starting to think that there could be communication failure at times with translating from German to English. At least it doesn't help.

Well that seems to be a problem at times, I understand that.
If you were to understand german you would see the whole thing with the picture also diffently as I did not post them without a very detailed explanation. This was all missing on AVS because of the "abuse" of redistrubiting it without asking me upfront.

Now regarding contrast: The "non calibrated" highest Number auf the NX9 I could get is about 90,000:1. With native colortemprature, Iris closed and zoom minimized.

Real world contrast (with right colors) is about 22,000:1 to 25,000:1. And of course these are higher than the calibrated numbers of the Sony which are 13,000:1 to 18.000:1. In dark scenes the NX9 shows a better black level.

Dynamic values I could not really compare as the DI of the NX9 was not working to well. Being it a PrePro I want to wait for the final FW-version before making comparison.

Hope that became clearer now.

 8)

Regards,
Ekki

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 03:06:25 PM

As I said above, I have a lot of respect for you. But that doesn't mean that I can't disagree with you or call things out that don't seem correct.  If things were reversed I would hope you would do the same thing to me. How else are we going to know the truth about things?

I have no problem with that whatsoever. If you can not second my results, of course you disagree with them. But it is another thing to call names.  When you for ex. give thumb up to a post above where I am called "Sony4Home" and pretty much a total liar, that does not show much respect, do you think? You really wanted me to act also like this if things were reversed? I do not think so  ;)

That is exactly the point I try to make since saturday: If anybody wonders about my results, he can contact me in a decent manner and I will react and try to explain. But that did not happen, instead there were tons of defamations going on on AVS I did not know about,  as I have not been there for about a year (had some health issues, which is why not much happened on C4H either during the last year).  So coming back there the other day, I see all that hate / defamation triggered mainly by one guy, why would  I invite him over to explain? Sorry, but that is asked a little too much.

Disagreeing is fine, defamation is not. Red line was crossed. That is why I do not want to deal with this guy (Nigel is his name?) anymore, I put him on my ignore list.

Complete other story with Kris, he is like I said the exact opposite. Of course I talk to him about my findings.

So I hope we can put this all to a rest and talk about the N-series here.  I really do not like the aggressive atmosphere at the old AVS and I hope it is another spirit over here, that is why i registered today. ;)


Regards,
Ekki

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 03:34:51 PM
I have no problem with that whatsoever. If you can not second my results, of course you disagree with them. But it is another thing to call names.  When you for ex. give thumb up to a post above where I am called "Sony4Home" and pretty much a total liar, that does not show much respect, do you think? You really wanted me to act also like this if things were reversed? I do not think so  ;)

That is exactly the point I try to make since saturday: If anybody wonders about my results, he can contact me in a decent manner and I will react and try to explain. But that did not happen, instead there were tons of defamations going on on AVS I did not know about,  as I have not been there for about a year (had some health issues, which is why not much happened on C4H either during the last year).  So coming back there the other day, I see all that hate / defamation triggered mainly by one guy, why would  I invite him over to explain? Sorry, but that is asked a little too much.

Disagreeing is fine, defamation is not. Red line was crossed. That is why I do not want to deal with this guy (Nigel is his name?) anymore, I put him on my ignore list.

Complete other story with Kris, he is like I said the exact opposite. Of course I talk to him about my findings.

So I hope we can put this all to a rest and talk about the N-series here.  I really do not like the aggressive atmosphere at the old AVS and I hope it is another spirit over here, that is why i registered today. ;)


Regards,
Ekki



Over the last two years that forum has become very hostile. I've been labeled "pro-JVC" and I admit that I have a preference towards JVC projectors. But that is because I've done the hard work and compared them side by side in my theater. I think JVC projectors produce a better overall image not because of something I've read online but because I've seen it with my own eyes. If that makes me biased then so be it. If Sony had a projector that had a better image I would own a Sony projector. That is a fact. In the US, JVC projectors are also a lot cheaper to buy so for me I have no issues recommending and buying a projector from JVC. I've owned a lot of projectors over the years so I feel entitled to my opinion:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1435591-look-what-avs-made-me-do.html

No projector is perfect, however, my feelings are that the issues that plague Sony projectors are far worse than the issues that plague JVC projectors. Sony doesn't seem to care about fixing these issues. I say that because these issues have been there on all Sony 4K models since the 1000ES. That model was released 8 years ago. I'm referring to banding, posterization, panel degradation causing contrast loss, lumen output loss, gamma droop, color gamut shrinkage and terrible white field uniformity. JVC projectors have gamma droop but it only happens once and once you correct it, the issue is resolved. JVC seems to try very hard at correcting issues that buyers and reviewers complain about. Between the issues Sony projectors have and the attitude Sony has about fixing them is why I won't own or recommend a Sony 4K projector. That is until Sony fixes the problems I have with them.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 03:47:12 PM
Over the last two years that forum has become very hostile.

Yeah, I found that out quickly.  :-\
If you havent been there for a long time and show back like I did, it is really shocking

I've been labeled "pro-JVC" and I admit that I have a preference towards JVC projectors.

Is that some new trend, stereotyping people one does not agree with?
Kinda sad I think.


But that is because I've done the hard work and compared them side by side in my theater. I think JVC projectors produce a better overall image not because of something I've read online but because I've seen it with my own eyes. If that makes me biased then so be it. If Sony had a projector that had a better image I would own a Sony projector. That is a fact. In the US, JVC projectors are also a lot cheaper to buy so for me I have no issues recommending and buying a projector from JVC. I've owned a lot of projectors over the years so I feel entitled to my opinion:

I think you are refering to posterization and so on. Well that is your right, I can understand that people get annoyed by that. On the other hand I can unterstand also that others are annoyed by JVC "quirks"

Actually it is a good thing that people have different preferences. There is no need to fight. I alwys try just to show the pros & cons of each model and try to animate the reader finding out himself, what he likes better. That is why we normally do not give simple "grades" below our reviews.

No projector is perfect, however, my feelings are that the issues that plague Sony projectors are far worse than the issues that plague JVC projectors. Sony doesn't seem to care about fixing these issues because they've been there on all Sony 4K models since the 1000ES. JVC seems to try very hard at correcting issues that buyers and reviewers complain about. Between the issues Sony projectors have and the attitude Sony has about fixing them is why I won't own a Sony 4K projector. That is until Sony fixes the problems I have with them.

Well I do not agree with that at all. When you directly talk to Sony engineers they are really open, also about problems and they are working on them. This goes also to JVC, but they for example never aknowledged drifting problems where Sony did. I do not see here one beeing better than the other. Pretty much a tie. ;-)

Please note that I am talking about my European / japanese contacts here, so it mght differ from other countries.

Regards,
Ekki
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 03:58:49 PM
I think you are refering to posterization and so on. Well that is your right, I can understand that people get annoyed buy that. On the other hand I can unterstand also that others are annoyed by JVC "quirks"

Yes, see my edited post. Posterization on the Sony's is awful and I plan on taking photos between a current generation Sony 4K model (probably the VW-295ES) and my RS2000/N7 when it arrives to show people how much fine detail is lost in chroma/color resolution due to this issue. I'll finally be able to 1:1 pixel match a JVC to a Sony 4K model. I'd even make the argument that Sony shouldn't be calling these projectors native 4K due to how bad this issue actually is. My opinion is that the issue with posterization is the reason why JVC eshift projectors come so close in perceived resolution compared to Sony 4K projectors.

Have you brought up the issue of posterization and banding with the Sony engineers? If so, what have the said? From what I've been told it is a hardware related issue in the device that feeds the SXRD panels information, the "panel drivers". There is a bottleneck with that device in which pixels cannot be sent discreet information and this is why posterization happens. For a company that supposedly cares more than I think they do, 8 years is a long time to not see a fix.

The drifting on JVC projectors happens once within the first 400-500 hours. You can fix this issue using their calibration software. That is not the case with Sony projectors. You can fix drift on them too initially, but it will continue to get worse and worse to the point where using their calibration software can no longer correct for the amount of drift.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 07, 2019, 04:26:13 PM
Yes, see my edited post. Posterization on the Sony's is awful and I plan on taking photos between a current generation Sony 4K model (probably the VW-295ES) and my RS2000/N7 when it arrives to show people how much fine detail is lost in chroma/color resolution due to this issue. I'll finally be able to 1:1 pixel match a JVC to a Sony 4K model. I'd even make the argument that Sony shouldn't be calling these projectors native 4K due to how bad this issue actually is. My opinion is that the issue with posterization is the reason why JVC eshift projectors come so close in perceived resolution compared to Sony 4K projectors.

Have you brought up the issue of posterization and banding with the Sony engineers? If so, what have the said? From what I've been told it is a hardware related issue in the device that feeds the SXRD panels information, the "panel drivers". There is a bottleneck with that device in which pixels cannot be sent discreet information and this is why posterization happens.

The drifting on JVC projectors happens once within the first 400-500 hours. You can fix this issue using their calibration software. That is not the case with Sony projectors. You can fix drift on them too initially, but it will continue to get worse and worse to the point where using their calibration software can no longer correct for the amount of drift.

The JVC Autocal program is proof JVC knows there is a gamma drop problem, if not the program would not exist it is way to bad if you want your projector to have reference level(all delta e under 1) after calibration. And once corrected either manually or with an autocal the drop is gone and it stays stable for thousands of hours. I follow a RS600(among many) with over 3000 hours and I have only needed to do adjustments to correct the gamma drop once, after that it is only minor adjustments to get it to reference level (all delta e under 1). This is the same on all JVC projectors I follow and the same goes for many others and we together have many hundreds of JVC projectors in our database.

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 04:42:37 PM
The JVC Autocal program is proof JVC knows there is a gamma drop problem, if not the program would not exist it is way to bad if you want your projector to have reference level(all delta e under 1) after calibration. And once corrected either manually or with an autocal the drop is gone and it stays stable for thousands of hours. I follow a RS600(among many) with over 3000 hours and I have only needed to do adjustments to correct the gamma drop once, after that it is only minor adjustments to get it to reference level (all delta e under 1). This is the same on all JVC projectors I follow and the same goes for many others and we together have many hundreds of JVC projectors in our database.

I also see Cine4Home continues his arrogant tone in here and ignore my comments and that is fine with me. 8)

A very well known professional calibrator here in the US, Jeff Meier of AccuCal, has publicly stated that he is no longer taking clients that own Sony projectors. He says the issue is so bad that he has to make severe calibration changes with the special Sony calibration software every time he goes back to a client's home. The only Sony projectors he will continue to calibrate are old clients who still have them in their theaters. He has completely written off Sony projectors due to these issues. He correlates it completely with SXRD panel degradation and has stated that the issue persists even on currently selling 2019 models.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 07, 2019, 04:45:24 PM
A very well known professional calibrator here in the US, Jeff Meier of AccuCal, has publicly stated that he is no longer taking clients that own Sony projectors. He says the issue is so bad that he has to make severe calibration changes with the special Sony calibration software every time he goes back to clients homes. The only Sony projectors he will continue to calibrate are old clients who still have them in their theaters. He has completely written off Sony projectors due to these issues. He correlates it completely with SXRD panel degradation and has stated that the issue persists even on currently selling 2019 models.

I see exactly the same. I have stopped referring people to buy Sony projectors and I am 100% sure the degradation happens to the new models as well. But I will not go into another discussion about this as the last time I did I got really bad threats via PM on the other forum and the person who sent them is still a member there and I am not...  :)

I see bad things also with JVC models as they tend to shrink a little in the gamut over time, but this can also be corrected with the Autocal program if you have good equipment and know how to use it to make your Spyder more accurate.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: ARROW-AV on January 07, 2019, 04:46:09 PM
Disagreeing is fine, defamation is not. Red line was crossed. That is why I do not want to deal with this guy (Nigel is his name?) anymore, I put him on my ignore list.

Complete other story with Kris, he is like I said the exact opposite. Of course I talk to him about my findings.

So I hope we can put this all to a rest and talk about the N-series here.  I really do not like the aggressive atmosphere at the old AVS and I hope it is another spirit over here, that is why i registered today. ;)


Regards,
Ekki
Hello Ekki,
With the utmost respect I did email you to ask you about your claimed 80,000:1 ON/OFF contrast performance for the SONY 885/760ES but you never replied... I have posted openly on AVSForum over a long period of time asking for clarity as to how you were achieving a measurement that no other video professional has, wherein we are all measuring peak circa 20,000 - 23,000:1 and this by the way includes Kris Deering who is a very good friend of mine (we converse daily and hang out at CEDIA together) who is just as baffled as I am regarding your claims.

I am asking for you to look at this from my point of view… I have emails that you previously sent me that are very ’anti-JVC’ (again this is not defamation because this is true and I still have copies of the emails), coupled with seemingly inflated measurements for SONY projectors, such as for example the SONY 885/760ES where you are quoting figures much higher than all of the video professionals that I am aware of are measuring, wherein by the way SONY themselves when Kris Deering submitted his review of the SONY 885/760 for fact checking to SONY wherein he stated that the peak ON/OFF measures 20,000:1 and that the dynamic dimming does hardly anything outside of fade-to-black, SONY gave him the thumbs up. Furthermore, I myself have conversed directly with SONY regarding my measurements and similarly they have confirmed that these "are within the expected range" and regarding the dynamic contrast functionality being very weak SONY confirmed to me in an email and I quote "people may not notice much of a change". Hence why I am confident that our measurements, which also all concur with each other, are correct. Furthermore, I had noted your negative comments regarding JVC "since the JVCKenwood merger" on occasion... And when I email you to ask you how you are achieving your much higher, different measurements I do not receive any response from you. So, you will please have to excuse my forming such opinion.

We are both adults here and should be able to have a civilized conversation. I believe that you have made a mistake regarding the SONY 885/760ES, but like everyone I am not perfect and I make mistakes on occasion as well and so I  might have made a mistake in this instance with respect to my opinion regarding your being biased, in which case If I have got you wrong I’d like to make good and do right by you.

The problem we have is that we have folks on AVSForum repeatedly quoting and citing your claimed measurements of 80,000:1 for the SONY 885/760ES and now 50,000:1 for the SONY 995/870ES, which neither myself nor my fellow video professionals are able to replicate, which includes Kris Deering by the way, and so this is causing a lot of confusion accordingly, so we are keen to get to the bottom of the matter. And yes I do know how to take measurements properly thank you.

Do these figures relate to circumstances other than with the projectors being accurately calibrated to less than 1% DE accuracy and to D65 White Point? This could partly explain things? In which case what we might have here is simply a case of apples-versus-oranges, where if this is the case then it is important that we can let people know what exactly these measurements relate to and the fact that we need to be using apples-with-apples measurements when comparing projectors. So if your measurements correspond to something different then ours then this would explain everything.

I hope we can move forward and if you were to meet me sometime I’d like to buy you lunch and/or a drink wherein I have no doubt that you would realize that I am actually nothing but a decent guy who is like your good self nuts about A/V

Best,
Nigel
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 04:59:54 PM
Let's try and keep this civilized. I feel Ekki might be scared away from this forum too if he is continually harassed. This forum isn't popular enough yet to lose people especially someone as knowledgeable as Ekki even if you don't agree with everything he says.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on January 07, 2019, 05:01:54 PM
I for one really hope that we can keep the discussion civil here.

Because if it becomes like AVS, we'll need to find another safe haven :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 05:04:11 PM
I for one really hope that we can keep the discussion civil here.

Because if it becomes like AVS, we'll need to find another safe haven :)

Exactly, let's not stoop as low as AVSForum.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 07, 2019, 05:09:46 PM
I find the tone in here very different than on AVS and people are also allowed to say what they mean without getting reported and banned. I agree we need to keep it civilised, but also open and people dont have to be so easily insulted by every small discussion. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 05:12:57 PM
Nigel,

I really did not get an email from you for ages, honestly. Last time we emailed was about all the Z1 issues where we both(!) were no very amused about JVC if I am allowed to remind you ;-)

I am never anti brand, I just evaluate products. And it is no secret that I do no think that the Z1 lives up to its hype for many reasons. But I do not want to start that discussion now, because that would never end.

If I did receive emails form you after that, I would of course have talked to you about it. Maybe they are in my spam filter, dunno.

Coming back to AVS after over a year of abstinence seeng all this badmouthing from you, I was just done with it. Like I said above, I have no problem with discussions, but not on that level. I simply have not the time for such endless back & forth, participating in forums is just a hobby of me.

But I can see that you try to sort things out and at least admit that you might be wrong about me being biased. I do appreciate that, which is why I answer here now ;-)

To be honest, I never had a bad impression of you until I saw all that bashing against me which I btw. do not understand at all. I did never anything against you and never talked badly about you anyhwere. I just do not agree with you on the Z1 perfomance it seems, that is all.

So ok, lets just be decent to each other again :-)

Regarding the VW Lasers, I havent followed that discussion on AVS at all. At one point someone posted in my forum that he only reaches 22.000:1 max(!) with dimming. That is quite odd, as the VW4k models can reach that natively already.

Regards,
Ekki

 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 05:17:22 PM
Can we please just try to have respectful conversation?

 ;)

Thanks & Regards,
Ekki
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 07, 2019, 05:17:54 PM
Mike, when do you get yours?

Hopefully in February.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 07, 2019, 05:23:07 PM


Can we please just try to have respectful conversation?

 ;)

Thanks & Regards,
Ekki

I agree with that 100%!  ;)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 05:23:33 PM
Have you brought up the issue of posterization and banding with the Sony engineers? If so, what have the said? From what I've been told it is a hardware related issue in the device that feeds the SXRD panels information, the "panel drivers". There is a bottleneck with that device in which pixels cannot be sent discreet information and this is why posterization happens.


I had such a discussion with them about it when the VW5000 came out which had inacceptable color depth. First reaction was that the player is incompatible (only Panasonic & Samsung available back then) but then they released an update which solved it to an acceptable level in my opinion. With "acceptable" I mean that by far most people do not notice it and personally am not so allergic against it either. But it is still there.

I do not think that a digital bottleneck causes it as the posterization differs with Panel temperature. And it also occurs with FullHD. And there is a big deviation between machines also. I therefore think more of a PWM issue.

Regards,
Ekki


Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 05:25:12 PM
Hopefully in February.

The temptation to take the first unit AVScience got would be too much for me. You must have the patience of a saint. :)

(or just a very strict protocol about who gets the first units haha)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Javs on January 07, 2019, 05:28:19 PM
I agree with all of the above, in fact, I had mentioned this privately to a number of people a few days ago once you had resurfaced on AVS, that I would much prefer an open dialogue with Ekki rather than not, and perhaps with time, we can all get on the same page here and actually share openly information and findings, and more importantly, be able to correlate them with one another. That is far more powerful than the alternative.

I will say I took a pretty huge issue with the photos that have been shared so far, and it did not come from an aspect of anything to do with personalities or individuals, more, an issue with how data was presented and what conclusions could be made from it, since it was quite an unfair comparison, I made that pretty clear cut I think, but lets put that behind us, there are going to be lots of new data points available to compare in the coming days.

Ekki, something I would like to see, if possible, can we please dig into how you achieved your Sony Laser dynamic numbers, A few of us have found it rather odd that nobody other than your self has been able to replicate the numbers, and the persons involved have actually tried hard to reach the same numbers, Kris Deering included. If you dont want to publicly mention it, that's fine, but if you dont mind, I think actually Kris would highly appreciate clarity on the matter.

I look forward to reading about series tests with the full new JVC range, I am rather hopeful that the N7 is a rather surprising machine in comparison to the NX9, most interested if the lack of the Eshift element inside may possibly give it an edge in the ANSI contrast and lead to an interesting performance aspect in comparison.

Anyway, hope you stick around for a civil chat Ekki.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 05:30:33 PM
I agree with that 100%!  ;)


Great!

About the conversation of JVC drift back then, I hardly remember details. I sure never intend to be arrogant in the first place, but sometimes others on AVS are also quite arrogant to me and then problems start.  ;D

If I remember right, we just had different findings about the drift issue of he JVCs. Actually I fear, we still will not agree on the drift pattern of the JVCs but rest assured I never meant to say that I consider you data as false.

I just try to say that I have also other data and that therefore I see no singular drift pattern for all JVCs. And yes, that is also an issue with SXRD (the contrats loss even worse), I really am not defending either brand here ;-)

Regards,
EKki
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 05:30:42 PM

I had such a discussion with them about it when the VW5000 came out which had inacceptable color depth. First reaction was that the player is incompatible (only Panasonic & Samsung available back then) but then they released an update which solved it to an acceptable level in my opinion. With "acceptable" I mean that by far most people do not notice it and personally am not so allergic against it either. But it is still there.

I do not think that a digital bottleneck causes it as the posterization differs with Panel temperature. And it also occurs with FullHD. And there is a big deviation between machines also. I therefore think more of a PWM issue.

Regards,
Ekki

Yes, I see that it does vary slightly on a unit to unit basis. Seeing how the panel driver feeds the SXRD panels information via pulse width modulation I think we're talking about the same thing. It's a limitation with how Sony feeds the panels information. It would seem a complete overhaul to their SXRD technology will need to happen to overcome this issue. JVC uses PWM as well and does not suffer the same issues. I do see some very minor dither noise on lower IREs with JVC projectors, but it is not even remotely close to what I see on Sony projectors.

I suppose this begs the question; Does Sony feel they they've "fixed" this issue now with the firmware update the 5000ES received? If so, that is unacceptable.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 07, 2019, 05:42:31 PM
Have removed/edited posts with personal attacks. If I missed anything. Please let me know.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: ARROW-AV on January 07, 2019, 05:49:55 PM
Nigel,

I really did not get an email from you for ages, honestly. Last time we emailed was about all the Z1 issues where we both(!) were no very amused about JVC if I am allowed to remind you ;-)

I am never anti brand, I just evaluate products. And it is no secret that I do no think that the Z1 lives up to its hype for many reasons. But I do not want to start that discussion now, because that would never end.

If I did receive emails form you after that, I would of course have talked to you about it. Maybe they are in my spam filter, dunno.

Coming back to AVS after over a year of abstinence seeng all this badmouthing from you, I was just done with it. Like I said above, I have no problem with discussions, but not on that level. I simply have not the time for such endless back & forth, participating in forums is just a hobby of me.

But I can see that you try to sort things out and at least admit that you might be wrong about me being biased. I do appreciate that, which is why I answer here now ;-)

To be honest, I never had a bad impression of you until I saw all that bashing against me which I btw. do not understand at all. I did never anything against you and never talked badly about you anyhwere. I just do not agree with you on the Z1 perfomance it seems, that is all.

So ok, lets just be decent to each other again :-)

Regarding the VW Lasers, I havent followed that discussion on AVS at all. At one point someone posted in my forum that he only reaches 22.000:1 max(!) with dimming. That is quite odd, as the VW4k models can reach that natively already.

Regards,
Ekki
Ekki,
That's great thank you. I did actually already edit the handful of posts wherein I referred to you as being biased when I said I'd give you the benefit of the doubt so if I have got you wrong regarding this I apologize. I owe you lunch and/or a drink sometime sir ;)

Regarding the VW Lasers because this is off topic regarding this thread let's discuss the matter via email wherein if it's OK I'd like to copy in and bring Kris Deering into the discussion. Because you did not seem to get my previous email, instead of replying to our previous lengthy email discussion I will send you a fresh email, which I have just done now, if you can please kindly reply so I know you have received it?

Best,
Nigel
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 05:52:32 PM
I'm happy everyone made up and apologized. It's sad that we fight over the most trivial of things. Let's be honest and admit that we could all live happily with either a Sony or JVC projector. Even if one brand is clearly better than the other. :D :P
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 07, 2019, 06:02:02 PM
The temptation to take the first unit AVScience got would be too much for me. You must have the patience of a saint. :)

(or just a very strict protocol about who gets the first units haha)

It is a learned trait. I am still learning it. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 06:03:13 PM
I agree with all of the above, in fact, I had mentioned this privately to a number of people a few days ago once you had resurfaced on AVS, that I would much prefer an open dialogue with Ekki rather than not, and perhaps with time, we can all get on the same page here and actually share openly information and findings, and more importantly, be able to correlate them with one another. That is far more powerful than the alternative.

Great, I am glad we found together here all. This is a better place as not so many others are interfering here permanently ;-)

I will say I took a pretty huge issue with the photos that have been shared so far, and it did not come from an aspect of anything to do with personalities or individuals, more, an issue with how data was presented and what conclusions could be made from it, since it was quite an unfair comparison, I made that pretty clear cut I think, but lets put that behind us, there are going to be lots of new data points available to compare in the coming days.

See this pictures were not(!) part of my first Mini-Review for a good reason, they were simply asked for by german readers in a complete different context. And I gave them to them with comments that the NX9 sharpness was just fine, that this text example is just a special case, that it hardy affects movie experience and so on.


Also I know that they are not perfect, they were put together spontaneously because people asked for them. And I still insist:  they are not sooo bad "out of focus" either when you consider how really really tiny the holes are. So tiny that you do not see them from 1m distance. And I shared them with people who were there at the shoot out (Mori) for example so I did not see a problem with the pics at all where i released them. Of course without any explanation / context just sharing the picture they of course trigger such a controversy like they did. That is why I tried to explain exactly that on AVS just to get harrassed like that again. So no, I  was not to happy about that you took that picture without my permission ot of context.   :P

Also quality aside, when witnesses and I say that the pics represent the real look, I would hope that people have so much respect of me not to insinuate that I was lying or even doctorig the picture to make the NX9 look bad. Especially after others confirmed all my other measures and findings (whooper on AVS for example).

I really hope that this "picture gate" got clear now once and for all ;-)


Ekki, something I would like to see, if possible, can we please dig into how you achieved your Sony Laser dynamic numbers, A few of us have found it rather odd that nobody other than your self has been able to replicate the numbers, and the persons involved have actually tried hard to reach the same numbers, Kris Deering included. If you dont want to publicly mention it, that's fine, but if you dont mind, I think actually Kris would highly appreciate clarity on the matter.

Actually I am talking to Kris about the VW995 and its dynamic behavior for two days already.

I look forward to reading about series tests with the full new JVC range, I am rather hopeful that the N7 is a rather surprising machine in comparison to the NX9, most interested if the lack of the Eshift element inside may possibly give it an edge in the ANSI contrast and lead to an interesting performance aspect in comparison.

Yes, the eShift thing will be interesting. I also hope that the final series machine will have more ANSI. The picture depth was fine anyway.

Regarding the N7 I find too that this will be the most interesting of the three. I really like the new JVCs and you guys will also see that my reviews will be totally fair and objective.  I only have some concerns regarding its DCI P3 brightness. It will have around 1200 lumens max calibrated is my "educated guess".

Anyway, hope you stick around for a civil chat Ekki.

I sure will. ;-)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 06:09:02 PM
I'm happy everyone made up and apologized. It's sad that we fight over the most trivial of things. Let's be honest and admit that we could all live happily with either a Sony or JVC projector. Even if one brand is clearly better than the other. :D :P

See that is why I can never win. If JVC fans like my reviews, Sony fans hate me and vice versa.
No to forget the Epson crowd and the DLP party oh my oh my..

 ::) ::)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 07, 2019, 06:10:09 PM
I'm happy everyone made up and apologized. It's sad that we fight over the most trivial of things. Let's be honest and admit that we could all live happily with either a Sony or JVC projector. Even if one brand is clearly better than the other. :D :P

Yes, once properly calibrated, the images are a lot closer than they are different. I also do not understand the comments on AVSF, where I am called a JVC only dealer. Here in the US, pretty much any dealer that sells JVC also sells Sony. Years ago, many people thought I was pro Sony. Now days I am called pro JVC. Heck, I just recommend what I think is best for the individual. It does not help Sony here in the US with their SURE pricing policy. Makes the price comparison pretty lopsided. In Europe it is not that way.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 07, 2019, 06:24:33 PM
Years ago, many people thought I was pro Sony. Now days I am called pro JVC.

Oh I see we have all the same problem. With me it is one year Epson bias, then JVC bias, then Sony bias ans so on never stops...

Even LG(!) bias I got accused of when I gave a good review to the LG PF1500 (which I like much for what it is).

The truth is, that the high end models get closer and closer. Actually that was the result of our NX9/VW760/VW870 shootout, they all were close, they all had their pros and cons. There was no single winner.

Regards,
EKki

 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: ARROW-AV on January 07, 2019, 06:35:26 PM
Oh I see we have all the same problem. With me it is one year Epson bias, then JVC bias, then Sony bias ans so on never stops...

Regards,
EKki
Hi Ekki, I sent you and email asking you to confirm you have received it but have got no response... Can you please check your email? Thank you  ;)

EDIT: If you have not received it then please try sending me and email and I will try replying to that

Best,
Nigel

P.S. I coped in Kris Deering
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 07:31:51 PM
We've all been through it. I used to be called a DLP fanboy because I used to complain about issues JVC projectors had. This was circa 2008 and 2009. The irony in all this makes me laugh. Who knows, maybe in a few years I'll be known as a Sony fanboy. All I know is that I go to where the best image is. For me, at the moment, it's with JVC. I'm eagerly awaiting someone else to impress me more.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: ARROW-AV on January 07, 2019, 07:51:11 PM
We've all been through it. I used to be called a DLP fanboy because I used to complain about issues JVC projectors had. This was circa 2008 and 2009. The irony in all this makes me laugh. Who knows, maybe in a few years I'll be known as a Sony fanboy. All I know is that I go to where the best image is. For me, at the moment, it's with JVC. I'm eagerly awaiting someone else to impress me more.
Prepare to be impressed  ;): https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/3018138-christie-large-venue-demonstration-2.html#post57023378

[EDIT: I know you have already seen this, but for the benefit of those who have not  ;)]
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 07, 2019, 08:01:23 PM
I should have rephrased that. The best image that I can afford is where I go. :) Even the RS2000 at the moment is a bit of a stretch for me.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 07, 2019, 08:28:28 PM
Not much we can add on any of the new JVC's because the 3000's are just starting to ship, so no one really has any numbers. 24,000:1 to 25,000:1 does not sound bad, though I was hoping for a little better. First RS3000 in the US was delivered today. Customer loves it, but he was coming from an RS60
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 08, 2019, 06:06:57 AM
Not much we can add on any of the new JVC's because the 3000's are just starting to ship, so no one really has any numbers. 24,000:1 to 25,000:1 does not sound bad, though I was hoping for a little better. First RS3000 in the US was delivered today. Customer loves it, but he was coming from an RS60

I was expecting closer to 30,000:1 minimum contrast for the RS3000. I'll be using my RS2000 close to telephoto end of the zoom range so I hope to get at least 25,000:1 minimum contrast with the RS2000 in my theater.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Madfloyd on January 08, 2019, 06:20:23 AM
Is there much visible difference between 25k and 30k?

Are these with iris open or full closed?  I assume this is an improvement over the RS4500/Z1?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 08, 2019, 07:43:56 AM
Is there much visible difference between 25k and 30k?

Are these with iris open or full closed?  I assume this is an improvement over the RS4500/Z1?

Iris open / Longest throw.

Yes, much improvement over the Z1 for sure.

First batch of RS2000 / N7 arrived in Germany it seems.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 08, 2019, 08:02:15 AM
JVC USA announcing today that buyers will receive a free spare lamp coupon for projectors received before March 31st. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 08, 2019, 08:55:47 AM
Is there much visible difference between 25k and 30k?

Are these with iris open or full closed?  I assume this is an improvement over the RS4500/Z1?

I suspect only with very dark content you'd notice a difference in contrast between 25,000:1 and 30,000:1.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 08, 2019, 09:10:33 AM
Iris open / Longest throw.

Yes, much improvement over the Z1 for sure.

First batch of RS2000 / N7 arrived in Germany it seems.


I'm hoping this means the first batch of units have arrived in the US too then.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 08, 2019, 09:16:39 AM
I realize my concern is probably unanswerable at this point, but just to throw it out there:

I bought my RS400 in the Spring of 2016, and the HDR limitations (the inadequacy of Gamma D itself, as well as its auto-switching, disabling of DI) were frustrating, and addressed by JVC in the subsequent x20 and x40 models.  So I bought the Linker, uploaded some custom curves, and was able to work around the fact that JVC didn't do a firmware upgrade that might have been able to remedy some or all of these issues.

I'm now looking at the RS3000, which promises to be a ground-breaking Projector, and given the delays from JVC, it could be February if not later before I might be able to get one.

There are bound to be at least some minor issues, perhaps major ones, with this new product, and if JVC behaves the same as it did with the x00 line, then they would be addressed or corrected with the next model, possibly available Nov. or Dec of 2019.  If that were to happen, with no firmware updates to address them, I'd be pretty upset, given the relatively short period of time between ready availability of the RS3000 and its replacement model, perhaps as little as 6 months.

So, given all that, does anybody have any insight on whether or not JVC will be altering their usual annual update, to address the delay in the native 4k Projector line?  Or be more inclined to address problems via firmware update, which it apparently usually doesn't do?

If I'm going to spend that much money, I'd want some reassurance that I wouldn't see a repeat of what we experienced with the x00 line.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 08, 2019, 09:40:41 AM
Seems like the final NX9 machines lie in the 25,000:1 to 28,000:1 range according to early reports.  10% more, than our Prepro sample.

RS2000/N7 will be likely in the 20,000:1 to 23,000:1 range then.

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DavidHir on January 08, 2019, 10:06:31 AM
Is there much visible difference between 25k and 30k?


That's only about a 15% difference...it would be very hard to see. In general, I would not worry about it. 

However, I will say this.  On my RS440, I'm getting about 15,200:1 with iris wide for UHD BD and around I'm 21,000:1 in my SDR/1080p mode with iris mostly closed.  And yes, I can see the difference although not huge...but that is a 28% difference.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 08, 2019, 10:23:41 AM
I realize my concern is probably unanswerable at this point, but just to throw it out there:

I bought my RS400 in the Spring of 2016, and the HDR limitations (the inadequacy of Gamma D itself, as well as its auto-switching, disabling of DI) were frustrating, and addressed by JVC in the subsequent x20 and x40 models.  So I bought the Linker, uploaded some custom curves, and was able to work around the fact that JVC didn't do a firmware upgrade that might have been able to remedy some or all of these issues.

I'm now looking at the RS3000, which promises to be a ground-breaking Projector, and given the delays from JVC, it could be February if not later before I might be able to get one.

There are bound to be at least some minor issues, perhaps major ones, with this new product, and if JVC behaves the same as it did with the x00 line, then they would be addressed or corrected with the next model, possibly available Nov. or Dec of 2019.  If that were to happen, with no firmware updates to address them, I'd be pretty upset, given the relatively short period of time between ready availability of the RS3000 and its replacement model, perhaps as little as 6 months.

So, given all that, does anybody have any insight on whether or not JVC will be altering their usual annual update, to address the delay in the native 4k Projector line?  Or be more inclined to address problems via firmware update, which it apparently usually doesn't do?

If I'm going to spend that much money, I'd want some reassurance that I wouldn't see a repeat of what we experienced with the x00 line.

JVC issues firmware updates to correct problems, but not to add features. Also with the new models using USB, firmware updates are less of an issue for owners. The 4500 using USB was very easy to update.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 08, 2019, 11:30:37 AM
JVC issues firmware updates to correct problems, but not to add features. Also with the new models using USB, firmware updates are less of an issue for owners. The 4500 using USB was very easy to update.

Thanks for the reply, Mike.

One could argue that Gamma D was basically defective and unusable right off the bat, and therefore a problem deserving of a firmware update to fix (but I do understand someone arguing otherwise).

All that said, do you think the delay in this new generation of projectors will alter the usual annual update cycle, or think that JVC will act any differently with regards to firmware updates because of the delays?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 08, 2019, 11:46:03 AM
Thanks for the reply, Mike.

One could argue that Gamma D was basically defective and unusable right off the bat, and therefore a problem deserving of a firmware update to fix (but I do understand someone arguing otherwise).

All that said, do you think the delay in this new generation of projectors will alter the usual annual update cycle, or think that JVC will act any differently with regards to firmware updates because of the delays?

Part of the issue was that the RS400/500/600 projectors were designed as the HDR10 standards were being finalized. JVC tried their best to implement HDR10 based on what they assumed the standard was going to be when finalized. If I remember correctly, the initial firmware that shipped with projectors had the clip point set to 10,000 nits which was far too high. The subsequent firmware lowered the clip point set for gamma D to 4000 or 2000 nits. I can't remember which.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 08, 2019, 02:39:34 PM
I see one NX9 owner is saying his unit measures in at roughly 30,000:1 at the telephoto end of the lens. I'm hoping most of the other units measure this way too. Hopefully only a small loss after calibration.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 08, 2019, 03:00:29 PM
Thanks for the reply, Mike.

One could argue that Gamma D was basically defective and unusable right off the bat, and therefore a problem deserving of a firmware update to fix (but I do understand someone arguing otherwise).

All that said, do you think the delay in this new generation of projectors will alter the usual annual update cycle, or think that JVC will act any differently with regards to firmware updates because of the delays?

Looking at what we know now, yes, but looking at it back when these projectors were designed, no.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 09, 2019, 04:29:25 AM
I see one NX9 owner is saying his unit measures in at roughly 30,000:1 at the telephoto end of the lens. I'm hoping most of the other units measure this way too. Hopefully only a small loss after calibration.

You mean NX9 with longest throw?  I would assume 30,000:1 realistic yes, but with light loss and maybe ANSI loss due to the zoom of course.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 09, 2019, 05:32:39 AM
You mean NX9 with longest throw?  I would assume 30,000:1 realistic yes, but with light loss and maybe ANSI loss due to the zoom of course.

Yes, the lens using the least amount of zoom possible. Usually this is a contrast number I provide when reporting on/off contrast.  That and the amount of contrast available using maximum zoom.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: rob-houston on January 09, 2019, 06:54:34 AM
Looking for some adult sanity over here!

I'll just wait till Seegs, Zombie and Kris get their projectors for reviews!!

The only thing I haven't seen yet "over there" is snarky little gamer 'its asking for lag times!!!

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: bmoney on January 09, 2019, 07:32:11 AM
Yes, the lens using the least amount of zoom possible. Usually this is a contrast number I provide when reporting on/off contrast.  That and the amount of contrast available using maximum zoom.

i always get confused with what max zoom means

if im at minimum throw distance but have the pic zoomed all the way in....to create the largest screen possible....is that max zoom?  and negatively effect light and contrast output?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 09, 2019, 09:01:46 AM
So at CES yesterday I made a point of having JVC shut the door and turn the audio off. The RS3000 is really quiet ! It seemed quieter in high lamp with 4K HDR than my RS600 was in high lamp. Just FYI. And I my face right in it's face - so to speak.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 09, 2019, 09:04:18 AM
i always get confused with what max zoom means

if im at minimum throw distance but have the pic zoomed all the way in....to create the largest screen possible....is that max zoom?  and negatively effect light and contrast output?

Being at minimum throw with the lens zoomed near maximum gives you more light / lumens and less contrast. Being at the longest throw will reduce the lumens but increase contrast.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 09, 2019, 09:07:49 AM
i always get confused with what max zoom means

if im at minimum throw distance but have the pic zoomed all the way in....to create the largest screen possible....is that max zoom?  and negatively effect light and contrast output?

Yes that's max zoom. The opposite is true for minimum zoom. Max zoom normally means lower on/off contrast,  the most lumen output and most ANSI contrast. Minimum zoom normally means more on/off contrast at the expense of lumen output and ANSI contrast.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 09, 2019, 12:33:08 PM
Yes that's max zoom. The opposite is true for minimum zoom. Max zoom normally means lower on/off contrast,  the most lumen output and most ANSI contrast. Minimum zoom normally means more on/off contrast at the expense of lumen output and ANSI contrast.

A friend of min got an NX9 yesterday and I was over to look at it today and it looked good apart from a few small details. We also measured it at Max zoom to 29000:1 and at -12 to 90000:1 and -15 to 115000:1 so he has a good sample when it comes to on/off contrast. It was also like all new JVCs close to perfect out og the box as soon as we set the gain in the PJ. What I find dissappionting is that JVC ships out these projectors after quite a long delay with a bug so that the DI does not work at all.

We will do a side by side test with my Cinecersum BW2 soon and then we will be able to measure it at longer throw.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 09, 2019, 01:25:05 PM
A friend of min got an NX9 yesterday and I was over to look at it today and it looked good apart from a few small details. We also measured it at Max zoom to 29000:1 and at -12 to 90000:1 and -15 to 115000:1 so he has a good sample when it comes to on/off contrast. It was also like all new JVCs close to perfect out og the box as soon as we set the gain in the PJ. What I find dissappionting is that JVC ships out these projectors after quite a long delay with a bug so that the DI does not work at all.

We will do a side by side test with my Cinecersum BW2 soon and then we will be able to measure it at longer throw.

From what I've read it seems the bug occurs only if you're using a manual iris setting past fully open. Is that true? Are you forced to use the iris fully open to get the dynamic iris to work?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Cine4Home on January 09, 2019, 02:24:18 PM
A friend of min got an NX9 yesterday and I was over to look at it today and it looked good apart from a few small details. We also measured it at Max zoom to 29000:1

Thanks for the update.

Do you have the matching lumen results?

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 09, 2019, 03:49:01 PM
From what I've read it seems the bug occurs only if you're using a manual iris setting past fully open. Is that true? Are you forced to use the iris fully open to get the dynamic iris to work?

It is broken and I think it has something to do with the gamma modualtion and to me it looked as it did many wrong things even with the manual iris set to 0. But I only had a short time with it...
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 09, 2019, 03:57:14 PM
Thanks for the update.

Do you have the matching lumen results?

It measured 160 nits on a 110" 1.0 gain screen with the iris set to 0 and high lamp mode. This was in one of the user modes and custom color, grayscale and gamma (set to 2.3 measured at 2.4). I did not measure the brightest modes.

The contrast numbers i posted is calibrated numbers. 160 nits if brightness is uncalibrated, calibrated it was around 145 nits.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 09, 2019, 09:06:51 PM
You mean NX9 with longest throw?  I would assume 30,000:1 realistic yes, but with light loss and maybe ANSI loss due to the zoom of course.

No, that was at mid zoom.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 11, 2019, 06:58:22 AM
Boy, I'll tell ya, some people act like a skittish animal. As I mentioned before in this thread, JVC seems committed at making their projectors function properly. They have a proven track record at releasing firmware files to fix issues, especially related to the dynamic iris. I saw at least one person has cancelled their preorder due to what they thought was an issue that's already been fixed. Now he has to wait at the end of the line if he wants to get a new projector. All I can say is any projector when thrown under the microscope will show issues. Most of these microscopic issues cannot be detected with normal video content.

Everyone calm down and take a deep breath, JVC will makes things right in the end like they always do. I see we're now getting a free lamp from this whole ordeal, so there's one positive thing to look forward to. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 11, 2019, 07:52:44 AM
Yep, JVC already has new firmware for the iris.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 11, 2019, 09:10:34 AM
Boy, I'll tell ya, some people act like a skittish animal. As I mentioned before in this thread, JVC seems committed at making their projectors function properly. They have a proven track record at releasing firmware files to fix issues, especially related to the dynamic iris. I saw at least one person has cancelled their preorder due to what they thought was an issue that's already been fixed. Now he has to wait at the end of the line if he wants to get a new projector. All I can say is any projector when thrown under the microscope will show issues. Most of these microscopic issues cannot be detected with normal video content.

Everyone calm down and take a deep breath, JVC will makes things right in the end like they always do. I see we're now getting a free lamp from this whole ordeal, so there's one positive thing to look forward to. :)

In general, I do agree with your perspective.  I'm actively following this discussion, as I'm wanting the NX9 to replace my RS400.  I think JVC's self-interest is sufficient that they will fix problems as quickly and efficiently as they can.  But I do remember the CMD bug, which did require the user to ship the projector back to JVC.  So until it was known that a firmware fix was sufficient to address the known problems, I do understand potential buyer's anxiety.

My main anxiety was expressed in a post to ARROW-AV on the other forum:

Quote
Are you in a position yet to fairly address how the NX9 compares to any of the recent JVC Projectors (RS4xx, RS5xx, RS6xx), in terms of overall "real-world" picture quality? Many of us have 'well-tuned' Projectors, using either the Panasonic UB-820, well-designed custom curves, or MadVR, etc., for HDR, and have pretty darn impressive pictures. So:

If someone with a reasonably sharp and trained eye just walked in the room where the previous Projector was housed, and sees the new image, are they going to say, "Hmmm... I think this looks a little better than it usually does" or are they going to say "Holy crap, what the heck is going on here? - This looks amazing!!"??

Similarly, what would be the likely reaction of that person's spouse, who isn't looking in terms of critical details, has no formal background, but can appreciate picture quality from an experiential level?

If I'm going to be spending mega-bucks on an NX9, I would hope that the improvement on my modest, yet most impressive RS400, would be in the "holy crap" category, and not a 'yeah, I *think* that looks a little better.'

His response is that he couldn't yet answer, as he didn't have the data to do so properly, which was a fair and acceptable answer.  But responses from at least one other owner suggested that a trained eye would see obvious differences, while others perhaps not so much.

I would want the degree of improvement to be such that *anybody* would see an obvious difference, to justify spending that type of money!  Hopefully with firmware fixes, and more units in people's homes, the answer will be more apparent.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 11, 2019, 09:44:38 AM
I would want the degree of improvement to be such that *anybody* would see an obvious difference, to justify spending that type of money!  Hopefully with firmware fixes, and more units in people's homes, the answer will be more apparent.

This is an interesting topic that I think has a more complex answer than you want. Part of the issue is out of JVC's or Sony's hands. Ultimately it's the video content itself that can make or break image quality. At the moment I feel that most of the UHD blu-ray content doesn't have that "in your face" obvious uptick in image quality over the 1080p blu-ray counterpart. So in this sense, an eshift JVC projector will look much the same compared to these new native 4K units. It will probably only be the select few titles out at the moment that have a new remaster (which wasn't used for a 1080p blu-ray) that will show clear an obvious advantages over an older 1080p blu-ray release. I'd say there's probably a dozen or two titles out at the moment that will do this. Obviously this will get better over time. We saw the same thing happen to 1080p blu-ray. As the format matured we saw an exponential increase in general picture quality. The same thing is bound to happen to UHD Bluray.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 11, 2019, 10:18:28 AM
This is an interesting topic that I think has a more complex answer than you want. Part of the issue is out of JVC's or Sony's hands. Ultimately it's the video content itself that can make or break image quality. At the moment I feel that most of the UHD blu-ray content doesn't have that "in your face" obvious uptick in image quality over the 1080p blu-ray counterpart. So in this sense, an eshift JVC projector will look much the same compared to these new native 4K units. It will probably only be the select few titles out at the moment that have a new remaster (which wasn't used for a 1080p blu-ray) that will show clear an obvious advantages over an older 1080p blu-ray release. I'd say there's probably a dozen or two titles out at the moment that will do this. Obviously this will get better over time. We saw the same thing happen to 1080p blu-ray. As the format matured we saw an exponential increase in general picture quality. The same thing is bound to happen to UHD Bluray.

I agree if you are using good HDR curves or the UB820, but it is a huge advantage of the new units being able to auto tone map all HDR sources. Lygren put up an NX7 on a large V6 screen and he said HDR movies like Blade Runner 2049 actually looked better on the NX7 than they did on the much brighter VW5000. Also if the new models upscale like the 4500, that will definitely be a big improvement. Throw in the more accurate lens memory and the ability to store so much more in lens memory and you have quite a bit going for the new models.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 11, 2019, 10:31:11 AM
Compared to my Cineversum Black Wing 2 (JVC RS520) the NX9 did not make me say "wow this is so much better than what I have at home", but it is a fantastic projector and it better be at that price. To me the price is simply stupidly expensive for a lamp based projector with only about 2000 lumens and I personally would never buy it for the asking price. To me it is way to small a difference and way to much money compared to what I already have. Other than that it is a fantastic projector and now it is even better after the 1.17 firmware is starting to be installed on the units.

We will have a side by side with my Cineversum and Didriks NX9 in the near future and I will post my impressions here.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 11, 2019, 11:45:02 AM
Compared to my Cineversum Black Wing 2 (JVC RS520) the NX9 did not make me say "wow this is so much better than what I have at home", but it is a fantastic projector and it better be at that price. To me the price is simply stupidly expensive for a lamp based projector with only about 2000 lumens and I personally would never buy it for the asking price. To me it is way to small a difference and way to much money compared to what I already have. Other than that it is a fantastic projector and now it is even better after the 1.17 firmware is starting to be installed on the units.

We will have a side by side with my Cineversum and Didriks NX9 in the near future and I will post my impressions here.

You have a fairly recent projector, so I'd say it's too soon to upgrade. Although I can't imagine you wouldn't see a difference with top tier 4K source material, and a somewhat less noisy picture with native 4K on the new projectors. It's different for folks with 5 - 10 year old projectors though.
What is the MSRP where you are ( what country are you in ) ?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 11, 2019, 12:26:01 PM
You have a fairly recent projector, so I'd say it's too soon to upgrade. Although I can't imagine you wouldn't see a difference with top tier 4K source material, and a somewhat less noisy picture with native 4K on the new projectors. It's different for folks with 5 - 10 year old projectors though.
What is the MSRP where you are ( what country are you in ) ?

Of corse it will look better with real 4K material, but the difference will not be very big I think. I have tested several Sony 4K models against 1080p e-shift models and the difference is not very big when it comes to sharpness and clarity. The NX9 will be better than the Sonys for sure and I look forward to the side by side to see what I am missing. I will most likely buy the next gen, but then probably the N7 upgrade. ;)

I live in Norway and the MSRP in NOK equals about 22000$.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 11, 2019, 12:50:02 PM
Of corse it will look better with real 4K material, but the difference will not be very big I think. I have tested several Sony 4K models against 1080p e-shift models and the difference is not very big when it comes to sharpness and clarity. The NX9 will be better than the Sonys for sure and I look forward to the side by side to see what I am missing. I will most likely buy the next gen, but then probably the N7 upgrade. ;)

I live in Norway and the MSRP in NOK equals about 22000$.

Wait - in Norway an RS2000 / NX7 is the equivalent cost of $ 22,000.00 dollars US ? 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 11, 2019, 01:24:23 PM
I agree with everyone. The last 3 generations of JVC eshifters is very hard to beat. You're really paying all this money for a small bump in perceived image sharpness due in part to the better lenses and the increase in panel resolution. You're getting some better image processing too. Most of everything else remains the same. Paying a lot for a small increase in performance is par for the course when it comes to consumer electronics. Audio is the same way. You can get 90% of the way there by spending 10% as much as someone getting 100% state of the art performance but he's spending 10x more than you.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 11, 2019, 01:25:08 PM
This is an interesting topic that I think has a more complex answer than you want. Part of the issue is out of JVC's or Sony's hands. Ultimately it's the video content itself that can make or break image quality. At the moment I feel that most of the UHD blu-ray content doesn't have that "in your face" obvious uptick in image quality over the 1080p blu-ray counterpart. So in this sense, an eshift JVC projector will look much the same compared to these new native 4K units. It will probably only be the select few titles out at the moment that have a new remaster (which wasn't used for a 1080p blu-ray) that will show clear an obvious advantages over an older 1080p blu-ray release. I'd say there's probably a dozen or two titles out at the moment that will do this. Obviously this will get better over time. We saw the same thing happen to 1080p blu-ray. As the format matured we saw an exponential increase in general picture quality. The same thing is bound to happen to UHD Bluray.

You certainly make a good point here: even with my RS400, some UHD's aren't especially impressive, while some HD's make me think it's UHD.

Going from my RS400 to an NX9 would represent a move forward on several fronts (there are other differences, but these are the main ones, I think):


So my hope is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so to speak, and that the net visual impact would be obvious to basically any observer.

But how realistic this hope is, given how much I'm having to wager, is unclear.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 11, 2019, 01:32:44 PM
You certainly make a good point here: even with my RS400, some UHD's aren't especially impressive, while some HD's make me think it's UHD.

Going from my RS400 to an NX9 would represent a move forward on several fronts (there are other differences, but these are the main ones, I think):

  • True 4k Resolution vs eShift

    Double Aperture vs Single Aperture

    Improved Contrast (100,000 vs 40,000)

    Greater Light Output (2200 vs 1700 lumens)

    Tone Mapping vs Custom Curves

    Greater Color Gamut with Filter use

    Z1 lens vs the 'regular' JVC 4xx/5xx/6xx lens

So my hope is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so to speak, and that the net visual impact would be obvious to basically any observer.

But how realistic this hope is, given how much I'm having to wager, is unclear.


I saw a big improvement overall going from my RS600 to my RS4500. So, with the same lens in the RS3000 / NX9, there will be a visible improvement over an RS400 in my opinion. 4K / HDR especially. 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 11, 2019, 02:13:00 PM
Wait - in Norway an RS2000 / NX7 is the equivalent cost of $ 22,000.00 dollars US ?

No the NX9, the N7 is around 10000$.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 11, 2019, 02:14:45 PM
No the NX9, the N7 is around 10000$.

MSRP or what your dealer's price is?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 11, 2019, 02:21:49 PM
You certainly make a good point here: even with my RS400, some UHD's aren't especially impressive, while some HD's make me think it's UHD.

Going from my RS400 to an NX9 would represent a move forward on several fronts (there are other differences, but these are the main ones, I think):

  • True 4k Resolution vs eShift

    Double Aperture vs Single Aperture

    Improved Contrast (100,000 vs 40,000)

    Greater Light Output (2200 vs 1700 lumens)

    Tone Mapping vs Custom Curves

    Greater Color Gamut with Filter use

    Z1 lens vs the 'regular' JVC 4xx/5xx/6xx lens

So my hope is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so to speak, and that the net visual impact would be obvious to basically any observer.

But how realistic this hope is, given how much I'm having to wager, is unclear.

I agree that with the right content being fed to the projector you're going to notice an upgrade over your RS400. Contrast and image sharpness should be the easiest thing to see between the two.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 11, 2019, 02:58:58 PM
I agree that with the right content being fed to the projector you're going to notice an upgrade over your RS400. Contrast and image sharpness should be the easiest thing to see between the two.

Well, for that kind of money, there better be a pretty big difference! :-\

I'm carefully following the discussion on the other forum, to try and get a feel for how big a difference! :-X
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 11, 2019, 03:22:00 PM
No the NX9, the N7 is around 10000$.

Those MSRP prices are 25% higher than the US. Actual street prices are going to be just that much lower here too.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: dlinsley on January 11, 2019, 04:56:45 PM
I saw a big improvement overall going from my RS600 to my RS4500. So, with the same lens in the RS3000 / NX9, there will be a visible improvement over an RS400 in my opinion. 4K / HDR especially.

I'm hoping to see a (partially) similar jump from my RS600 to the RS3000 as you did to the RS4500. I had the opportunity to demo the Sony 995 at Kris' house today, and given the difference he has seen between the 885 and 995 image he thought the better lens was some part of the "image solidity" increase. If my RS3000 had arrived this week, we would have done a mini shootout. Now, hopefully soon.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 11, 2019, 08:21:01 PM
With the new firmware update, things are looking really good. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 11, 2019, 08:30:42 PM
I had some friends over tonight for a movie. For two of them it was their first real home theater experience. We ended up watching A Quiet Place on UHD Bluray. I was almost more impressed with the audio than I was with the video. The 7.1 mix was excellent. I had hoped to watch this on my new RS2000, but my "slummin' it" X500 eshift3 unit still looked very, very good. The two first-timers were so impressed they wanted to know when they could come over again, haha!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 13, 2019, 12:35:04 PM
I was just reading a glowing summary of someone's subjective impressions of his new N7 (RS2000), which replaced an X750 (RS500) by BruceJK on the other forum:

Quote
I originally decided to upgrade from the X750 to the NX7 for the 4K HDR benefits alone. This was due to the major headline changes of native 4K resolution and the auto tone mapping for HDR. I used custom curves on the X750 (3 curves for Dolby Cinema emulation) but felt that this could be better. Because the Apple TV 4K is my primary source the Panasonic 820 doesn't help me.

I assumed that the best I could do for 1080P SDR on the NX7 was to equal the X750 and I actually expected the NX7 to lag behind a bit because of the lower rated on/off contrast.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The NX7 improves on the X750 in every way and the difference is clearly visible in everyday viewing. I'm not talking about pixel peeping at close distances but actually using it like a normal customer would. The new chassis must contain a lot of internal improvements over the previous lineup. Some of these may be small, subtle improvements but they all add up and the end result makes for amazing viewing.

Basically the image looks like a giant 110 inch 21:9 OLED all the time. I haven't seen a single flaw to mar the picture when viewing from 2X screen height which is really close. Nothing distracts you from the viewing experience.

1. The image is calm, crisp, and incredibly detailed.
2. No lamp flicker or video noise.
3. There is no streaking or ghosting visible on real world content from a normal viewing distance. Much better than my X750.
4. Overall contrast performance matches the X750.
5. Superb convergence even at 4K resolution.
6. No stuck pixels detected (out of 24 million!).
7. Motion is much better. I don't use CMD but even straight 24p telecine motion is noticeably cleaner.
8. The auto tone mapping for HDR is excellent. It's just plug and play assuming the metadata is decent and easy to adjust manually if its not.
9. The HDMI handshake is nearly twice as fast as the X750 and rock solid. I haven't had a single glitch or dropout on any source.
10. Build quality is high. Fit and finish is excellent though I do miss the high gloss black.

Very promising post. I'm hoping to see the same benefits when JVC USA finally starts releasing these projectors to dealers/buyers. I'm excited to take a look and provide information about the RS2000 when it finally arrives. I hope we see these projectors start to ship out this week, but I suppose only JVC knows when.  :-\
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 13, 2019, 02:16:58 PM
I was just reading a glowing summary of someone's subjective impressions of his new N7 (RS2000), which replaced an X750 (RS500) by BruceJK on the other forum:

Very promising post. I'm hoping to see the same benefits when JVC USA finally starts releasing these projectors to dealers/buyers. I'm excited to take a look and provide information about the RS2000 when it finally arrives. I hope we see these projectors start to ship out this week, but I suppose only JVC knows when.  :-\

They will take a while to ship all of the pre-orders, once they start shipping. Hopefully starting in another week or so.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 13, 2019, 03:18:50 PM
I was just reading a glowing summary of someone's subjective impressions of his new N7 (RS2000), which replaced an X750 (RS500) by BruceJK on the other forum:

Very promising post. I'm hoping to see the same benefits when JVC USA finally starts releasing these projectors to dealers/buyers. I'm excited to take a look and provide information about the RS2000 when it finally arrives. I hope we see these projectors start to ship out this week, but I suppose only JVC knows when.  :-\

To me that post might be a little honeymoonish, I have seen the NX9 (good sample) and it is a very good projector, but not such a big improvement over the later 1080p e-shift models as BruceJK describes... 8)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 13, 2019, 04:52:23 PM
To me that post might be a little honeymoonish, I have seen the NX9 (good sample) and it is a very good projector, but not such a big improvement over the later 1080p e-shift models as BruceJK describes... 8)

I don't necessarily agree. But, when it comes to video improvements in my theater, I'm pretty much a " money is no object " type of person. The JVC native 4k projectors look sharper and with less video noise to me, vs my previous RS600.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 13, 2019, 06:17:21 PM
To me that post might be a little honeymoonish, I have seen the NX9 (good sample) and it is a very good projector, but not such a big improvement over the later 1080p e-shift models as BruceJK describes... 8)

The RS4500 I had was a nice step up over my RS600 and the RS3000 look at CEDIA reminded me a lot of the look of my 4500, so really looking forward to the RS3000. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 14, 2019, 07:25:24 AM
I don't necessarily agree. But, when it comes to video improvements in my theater, I'm pretty much a " money is no object " type of person. The JVC native 4k projectors look sharper and with less video noise to me, vs my previous RS600.

That is ok with me, but the NX9 did not give me a WOW feeling compared to my Cineversum. It probably is quite a bit better, but we need to do a side by side to be able to see the differences. When watching the NX9 in one room and then watching my own in my room the next day I am not able to see any difference. 8)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 14, 2019, 07:52:00 AM
I don't necessarily agree. But, when it comes to video improvements in my theater, I'm pretty much a " money is no object " type of person. The JVC native 4k projectors look sharper and with less video noise to me, vs my previous RS600.

That is the difference in having no kids vs two kids, especially when both are in college. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 14, 2019, 09:23:34 AM
That is ok with me, but the NX9 did not give me a WOW feeling compared to my Cineversum. It probably is quite a bit better, but we need to do a side by side to be able to see the differences. When watching the NX9 in one room and then watching my own in my room the next day I am not able to see any difference. 8)

The largest difference will be with 4K material mastered in 4K. That's the money shot, baby !
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 14, 2019, 09:24:50 AM
That is the difference in having no kids vs two kids, especially when both are in college. :)

Guilty as charged.  :-X
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 14, 2019, 09:27:47 AM
That is the difference in having no kids vs two kids, especially when both are in college. :)

29 years old, no kids here! Though I did just buy a new home 6 months ago, so I've been a little more conscientious about my spending lately.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Andreas21 on January 14, 2019, 09:42:08 AM
The largest difference will be with 4K material mastered in 4K. That's the money shot, baby !

Tested all kinds of material and will do the same when doing the side by side. ;)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 14, 2019, 08:41:53 PM
29 years old, no kids here! Though I did just buy a new home 6 months ago, so I've been a little more conscientious about my spending lately.

Congrats on the new home. I remember what that was like. I built my first home when I was 28.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 16, 2019, 01:59:19 PM
I see streaking is the topic of the day. All of the LCoS projections we're discussing have this issue to some extent. Here is the $28,000 Sony VPL-VW1100ES that I had here.  Normally this artifact cannot be seen with normal video content,  even on the JVC. Im also of the opinion that the raised level of black on the Sony 4K models and even the RS4500 make it so it doesn't stick out as much as it does with the other JVCs which have a darker level of black.

(https://i.imgur.com/7nrZA0A.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oWtt2FA.jpg)

And here is an overexposed photo comparing the Epson LS10000 vs JVC DLA-X500 during a shootout I did between the two a few years ago. Overexposed to show off the streaking easily

(https://i.imgur.com/uXxlCGw.jpg)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 16, 2019, 02:03:48 PM
Yep. Show the exaggerated photos and people think that is what the projector looks like from viewing distance.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Mramsden on January 16, 2019, 02:05:47 PM
Thanks ... this is reassuring to know. You start to wonder with the microscopic look at flaws ...

I see streaking is the topic of the day. All of the LCoS projections we're discussing have this issue to some extent. Here is the $28,000 Sony VPL-VW1100ES that i had here.  Normally this artifact cannot be seen with reusable video content,  even on the JVC. Im also of the opinion that the raised level of black on the Sony 4K models and even the RS4500 make it so it doesn't stick out as much as it does qoth the other JVCs which have a darker level of black.

..

And here is an overexposed photo compared the Epson LS10000 vs JVC DLA-X500 during a shootout I did between the two l did a few years ago. Overexposed to show off the streaking easily ..

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 16, 2019, 02:12:29 PM
People need to take a deep breath.  They are reading WAY too much into the photos posted. The fact remains that these types of issues were present on the eshift models as well. This all seems to be par for the course when dealing with projectors with high contrast.  Its extremely hard to soak up evey bit of light scatter in the light engine. Its going to take some fairly high contrast content to actually make these artifacts out from a normal seated distance. It's normally only visible when you have white on an all black background,  like the shots I posted above. Things like end credits are a good example.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 16, 2019, 03:44:58 PM
People need to take a deep breath.  They are reading WAY too much into the photos posted. The fact remains that these types of issues were present on the eshift models as well. This all seems to be par for the course when dealing with projectors with high contrast.  Its extremely hard to soak up evey bit of light scatter in the light engine. Its going to take some fairly high contrast content to actually make these artifacts out from a normal seated distance. It's normally only visible when you have white on an all black background,  like the shots I posted above. Things like end credits are a good example.

And most of those photos are over-exposed to show the effect .
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 16, 2019, 05:03:40 PM
And most of those photos are over-exposed to show the effect .

From memory, I recall taking the photos of the Sony 1100ES trying to show what I saw in person up against the screen. For that to work I had to overexpose the shot a bit, but the other photo of the Epson/JVC it is highly overexposed, which is why the Oppo logo looks so out out focus.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 21, 2019, 01:07:35 PM
I haven't been following too closely for the past 4 or 5 days. Are we any closer to knowing when US pre-orders might start being fulfilled? I'm sure you guys have been bombarded with this same question for weeks now, so apologies in advanced.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 21, 2019, 01:18:35 PM
Probably looking at first week of February.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on January 21, 2019, 01:30:00 PM
I haven't been following too closely for the past 4 or 5 days. Are we any closer to knowing when US pre-orders might start being fulfilled? I'm sure you guys have been bombarded with this same question for weeks now, so apologies in advanced.

Technically speaking, you are now 4 - 5 days closer !  ;)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on January 30, 2019, 12:26:50 PM
Last day for RS1000 preorders.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 31, 2019, 06:45:57 AM
That seems to be a good sign! :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on February 01, 2019, 12:33:27 PM
That seems to be a good sign! :)

Yep. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 04, 2019, 10:25:58 AM
I'm hearing my RS2000 should be here some time this week. (fingers crossed)

I'm also about to have a Sony VPL-VW695ES here for a few weeks. These two models seem to offer the sweet spot in performance from both companies and are priced the closest. Instead of doing two separate reviews for them, I was thinking it might be more appropriate to do a comparison review where I talk about objective and subjective differences between the two. I think this would help anyone on the fence trying to decide between the two.

If there's anything people want me to look at specifically with either of these models feel free to ask and I'll do my best to provide that information.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on February 04, 2019, 10:59:33 AM
Hi Dylan,

I'm hearing the same for my rs2000 :)

I'll be concentrating on everything JVC Autocal and calibration related in the Autocal thread (https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=1850.0). I'll post there when I know exactly when to expect my unit (i.e. when I get a tracking number).

I won't be doing a review (yours will be far better!) but I'll post some suggestions re best settings and calibration tips, with and without the autocal. I might post some contrast measurements if they are useful to provide a single data point (for example on/off contrast and ANSI contrast using my Minolta T10) but I'll focus on gamut measurements with saturations and color volume cover with different profiles, greyscale measurements etc using Calman Ultimate with my Discus trained to my i1pro2. Feel free to contribute (or ask) anything calibration related there so we can keep the information organised. :)

Regarding your review, I'm really looking forward to your observations re picture quality, especially re any suggested settings or settings to avoid in your opinion, as I trust your eyes. It will be very interesting to see how the JVC compares to the Sony, so great you can have both at the same time.

Apart from that, the usual: do you spot any artifacts with the DI, especially with the iris fully open? It's supposed to close less but to be less aggressive to reduce artifacts, which is welcome. How do you find the black levels/contrast on your unit compared to your last/current JVC (please remind us what it is). Mine is an rs500.

Looking forward to playing with this new toy and reading your observations! :)

EDIT: Do you plan to start an owner's thread? It would be great if you did.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 04, 2019, 01:31:05 PM
I guess it's a race. Who ever takes possession of their RS2000 first can start the owners thread here.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on February 04, 2019, 01:55:42 PM
I guess it's a race. Who ever takes possession of their RS2000 first can start the owners thread here.

Please let's not make it so that anyone can start an owner's thread just because they get their unit first. We've seen what often happens in the past when you do this: some random guy starts the thread, posts a couple of unboxing pictures and disappears. Not great when we have no way to manage the thread after they leave.

At least whoever wants to start the thread should agree to manage a first post with FAQ, links, etc otherwise it quickly becomes pointless to have an owner's thread, at least as a reference for new owners so that the same questions aren't asked over and over again. I mean, I'm sure it will be the case but at least we can send them to the first post  ::).

I think it's also great if the thread starter is knowledgeable, so if you volunteer you definitely get my vote :)

I'll be busy enough with the calibration thread, so I can't take both on, but of course I'll be happy to contribute to the owner's thread if I can.

Anyway, let's see who gets their unit first *and* volunteers to start the owner's thread. There are many knowledgeable users who are expecting one, so let's hope we get lucky!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 04, 2019, 03:35:11 PM
If you're going to be posting a ton of calibration related information, I'd say you're probably better suited to start the thread then. I agree it's best that some random person doesn't start the thread. A lot of useful information can be posted in the first post of a thread that can stop redundant questions from being asked.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on February 04, 2019, 04:17:44 PM
I'll be posting tons of calibration-related info... in the new calibration thread (https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=1850.0) (the link in my earlier post was bad, it looks like the link icon is buggy, so I corrected it) :)

I'll happily contribute to the owner's thread but I won't post too much calibration info there because in my experience many owners are not interested in calibration beyond basic settings, and the technical calibration discussions bores them to death. Those who are interested can join the calibration thread, and we can discuss the topic there freely.

So I'd rather focus on the calibration thread for that part of the discussion. But there should still be basic settings recommendations in the owner's thread to help people get started.

As I said I don't think I can take on the owners' thread on top of the calibration thread, so let's see who gets their unit first and steps forward if you don't volunteer... Willing to maintain a useful first post (or more) is a requirement. Knowledgeable/experienced is an optional plus. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on February 05, 2019, 07:30:55 AM
I guess it's a race. Who ever takes possession of their RS2000 first can start the owners thread here.

Can I place a bet? :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on February 05, 2019, 08:51:05 AM
Can I place a bet? :)

Hey Mike,

I see that in the past you or Craig started the owner's threads. Would one of you be happy to start this one too? That would be ideal!

Also any reason to keep the rs1000/2000 and the rs3000 separate?

I see that Craig has just started an rs3000 thread. Could this become the rs1000/2000/3000 owner's thread, or do you want to start a separate rs1000/2000 thread?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on February 05, 2019, 09:40:03 AM
I felt with the different lens that the RS3000 is different enough to warrant a separate thread. I vote for Dylan to start the owners thread for 1000's / 2000's.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on February 05, 2019, 10:07:00 AM
I felt with the different lens that the RS3000 is different enough to warrant a separate thread. I vote for Dylan to start the owners thread for 1000's / 2000's.

Cool, Dylan's got 100% of the votes as of now. Question is: does he want to?  :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 05, 2019, 02:11:11 PM
Cool, Dylan's got 100% of the votes as of now. Question is: does he want to?  :)

If no one else has made a thread by the time mine arrives, I will gladly start the new owners thread.  ;)

I might not be quite as proficient as you are at keeping the original post up to date though.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on February 05, 2019, 05:12:18 PM
Cool, Dylan's got 100% of the votes as of now. Question is: does he want to?  :)

If Dylan wants it, it is his.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on February 05, 2019, 05:13:29 PM
By tomorrow, RS1000's will be in stock.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 06, 2019, 03:14:04 PM
My tracking info says my RS2000 will be here tomorrow!!

Well, that's assuming it left AVScience's warehouse today.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on February 06, 2019, 03:22:07 PM
My tracking info says next Tuesday, but then it's going a longer distance... Let's hope it's a pessimistic estimate.

Yes I believe they left today. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 06, 2019, 03:24:51 PM
Luckily for me, I only live about 250 miles from the warehouse. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on February 06, 2019, 04:11:23 PM
My tracking info says my RS2000 will be here tomorrow!!

Well, that's assuming it left AVScience's warehouse today.

OK Mr. Owner's thread starter - no slacking !  ::)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on February 06, 2019, 05:49:03 PM
My tracking info says my RS2000 will be here tomorrow!!

Well, that's assuming it left AVScience's warehouse today.


It did ship today. :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 06, 2019, 06:49:59 PM
OK Mr. Owner's thread starter - no slacking !  ::)

I need a photo of it first! Gotta keep with tradition. All in good time. Just checked my tracking info again and it's now in UPS's hands. Should be here sometime tomorrow afternoon!
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on February 07, 2019, 05:43:32 AM
As Craig has created a separate thread for the rs3000, may I suggest that we create a separate thread for the rs2000 and rs1000 as well? There is arguably as much difference between the rs1000 and the rs2000 (P3 filter, twice the contrast) as there is between the rs2000 and rs3000 (THX, eshift, lens).

So maybe Dylan could start the rs2000 thread and a happy rs1000 owner could start the rs1000 thread?

Of course if you guys think it's better to keep them together, that's fine.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on February 07, 2019, 09:23:12 AM
Works for me. Although I figured the 1000 & 2000 had more in common than either did with the 3000. I'm good either way.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 07, 2019, 09:54:11 AM
I think the post count here on this relatively new forum is low enough where combining the two projectors in one thread should be fine. I don't think the thread will move fast enough to cause any issues discussing both models in one thread.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on February 07, 2019, 10:15:16 AM
My concern wasn't about traffic, it was about ambiguity, when people post about features/specs that don't apply to other models.

The main difference is the filter, and people asking "why can't I do this" or "I can't find the option" or "it doesn't work".

But if you prefer to keep both models together, I certainly don't mind. You're the one who will be managing the thread :)

Also I was thinking that your review thread could be the owner's thread (if you reserve enough posts at the start), as it would probably make sense to combine both instead of having questions/answers scattered in two threads.

Anyway, you decide what works best for you :)

Regarding the post count, let's see how this goes...
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 07, 2019, 11:01:02 AM
I don't think it's going to be an issue here on this forum at the moment. Most of the members here are veteran projector users and should know that if someone mentions the color filter, they're referencing the RS2000. That really is the biggest differentiating physical factor between these two units. It's also worth pointing out that the mid-tier model has always had this filter difference. I don't think there will be much ambiguity in the forums here.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: rob-houston on February 07, 2019, 11:17:58 AM
This thread has already hit 20 pages (290 posts)!  ;) ::)    8)

If you ask people to indicate the projector they are referring to then there shouldn't be much a a problem
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 07, 2019, 03:21:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RgugZzB.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/RgugZzB.jpg)
Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread

It has arrived! I will do my best to start an owners thread tonight or tomorrow. I'm stuck working tonight and don't have a ton of time on my hands.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 07, 2019, 03:32:53 PM
A few first thoughts. JVC seems to have stepped every aspect of this projector up from previous years. The packaging is a lot nicer. The cardboard is a lot more sturdy/rigid and the styrofoam, while still hard, has a bit more give to it to protect the projector more. The chassis is huge but everyone knows this already. The projector is definitely louder in high lamp mode than previous years, but low lamp is roughly the same. I will try and do an objective measurement with my dB meter. My dynamic iris is silent. But the programming for it is definitely a lot more aggressive. Unfortunately there is a ton of visible gamma shift and a lot of clipped whites. It reminds me a lot of the dynamic iris I saw on the Planar PD8150. The iris itself is practically invisible with no pumping that I've seen so far, but the gamma compensation and dynamic multiplier must be higher because of the clipped whites and gamma shift  I'm seeing. I really wish JVC could simply port over the dynamic contrast software they used on the eshift models. IMO, it was pretty freaking good already so I'm not entirely sure why they made such drastic changes.

Sync times are MUCH faster. I counted in my head and it takes 8-9 seconds for it to lock onto a signal and display an image. So this should help those who switch between sources/resolutions/frame rates often. The only other negative thing I have to say is that my particular unit does not have good convergence at all. Actually it's awful:

(https://i.imgur.com/sHrK4bu.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/sHrK4bu.jpg)
Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread

I can correct this with the built in convergence control, but this is pretty bad and I'm surprised JVC let this leave the factory like this. I don't have the RS2000 in my light controlled theater yet (I'm just projecting it on a white wall at work at the moment) but I'm pretty sure already that this particular unit is drastically better with lens streaking, but I will wait to confirm this later when I take it home.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 07, 2019, 03:58:36 PM
After an hour long warm up the convergence is getting better. I only have to adjust one whole vertical pixel for red now. So it seems these units may have a longer warm up period than the eshifters. Its reminiscent of Sony 4K models a couple years ago.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 07, 2019, 05:12:36 PM
I hope my previous posts don't come off too negative. I haven't even spent time with it in my actual theater and I can tell already this projector is a nice step up over the eshifters. The only gripe I think I'm gonna have is with the dynamic iris, but that is hopefully something they can fix with a firmware update. Honestly, from what I've seen so far, this may be the last projector I buy with the intention to keep for a long time. If they can get the DI working close to the same as the eshifters this projector will be absolutely amazing.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSCraig on February 08, 2019, 11:48:10 AM
I hope my previous posts don't come off too negative. I haven't even spent time with it in my actual theater and I can tell already this projector is a nice step up over the eshifters. The only gripe I think I'm gonna have is with the dynamic iris, but that is hopefully something they can fix with a firmware update. Honestly, from what I've seen so far, this may be the last projector I buy with the intention to keep for a long time. If they can get the DI working close to the same as the eshifters this projector will be absolutely amazing.


What setting are you using with the dynamic iris ?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on February 08, 2019, 11:54:33 AM
Any chance we could close this thread and keep the discussion in the owners' thread(s) so that all the info/discussion is in the same place?
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Sparky on March 27, 2019, 02:13:56 PM
Any chance we could close this thread and keep the discussion in the owners' thread(s) so that all the info/discussion is in the same place?
Hello nice folks of this thread - I do have an often asked question about which JVC model to chose, let me give you some background.  I would not mind "consulting" with someone if need be.  I have been learning about calibration the past year, I did follow Manni's guidelines on one of my JVC models a couple of years back, and talk a lot with Ted in Greece (he is not a fan of projectors, so it's best I talk the people who really seem to be passionate about them).

Background I think is essential to the feedback and I am very grateful for any feedback.  Please be positive, there is a nice atmosphere to this forum and as we have seen things can change for the worst.  I have also purchased from AVS 3 different JVC models from Mike G. over the past 6 years. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*This is going to sound like a get to know me, but it's just for more accurate responses.  Please understand that.

I am open to buying a RS540, RS1000 or 2000

In my current living room setup (I only watch movies at night from a Blu-ray disc or UHD disc), I have had an RS420 and a RS520.  Despite the many short comings of the room, I did notice a much sharper image from the 520 over the 420 projecting...throw distance 10'8" onto a 100" Stewart Cima Neve.  However I felt that the contrast on the RS420 was excellent.

Despite being 37 years old, I am huge classic movie fan from the 1940s, 50s, 60s and I seldom watch newer movies - many of my Blu-ray movies are film-noirs from that era.  I do own about 40 4K UHDs, and I love learning and experimenting with calibration.  I have Lightspace HTL and CalMan Home Enthusiast and I have an X-rite iDisplay Pro and I am hoping to buy iDisplay Pro 2 in the near future - there is something about the calibration that I find really interesting and rewarding … I often find myself critiquing picture quality than actually enjoying the film - that is me.  I also own a eeColorBox for 3D LUTs (just to learn more about that aspect).  I am a beginner calibrator. 


Talking about Pros vs Cons:
One "pro" for the RS2000 is that Manni has done extensive work and publishing about how to calibrate the RS2000, which would benefit a guy like me who is serious about becoming a good calibrator.

Another is the color space and better contrast, but like I said I was very happy with the contrast on my RS420, but was disappointed in the resolution having come from a RS520 (the 420 was a hold over). 

The RS2000 would give me more things to learn with calibration and to enjoy the fruits of my labor, afterwards.

The RS1000 would be cheaper, pique my interest more with modern movies because of the 4K. 

The RS540 would seemingly give a really good picture quality for 1080p for my old movies especially the ones in color.

What would you chose? Am I missing some important things?






Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on March 27, 2019, 05:29:36 PM
Hi Sparky,

Welcome here!

Before talking projector, is there any chance you can improve the room a bit? It’s probably a big limiting factor contrast-wise at the moment.

The three projectors you mention as potential upgrades are all very good. If you want the wide color gamut, That leaves the rs540 or rs2000, whichever fits your budget. If you don’t plan to watch lots of native 4K, the rs540 is a fantastic deal. Otherwise, even on a small-ish screen, you should be happy with the increased resolution and picture stability brought by the rs1000/rs2000.

You know which one I would chose in my bat loft, but in your room the rs1000 would do great too.

I don’t think you can go wrong with any of these frankly!

I’d give Mike a call and discuss it with him. I’m sure that would help your decision more than what any of us could advise :)
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Sparky on March 27, 2019, 05:36:58 PM
Hi Manni, thanks for replying.  The only thing I could do right now is put up dark wall paper on the back wall.  It's an apartment. Would I be able to use a lot of your calibration tips on the RS1000? 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on March 27, 2019, 06:00:31 PM
Anything that could tame reflections in the room would help.

Yes the rs1000 is very similar to the rs2000. It’s the same autocal version. The main difference is the lack of P3 filter and less native contrast.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Sparky on March 27, 2019, 06:43:37 PM
Manni I found the contrast to be very good on my RS420 even compared to my 520 is that most likely because of the poor room design?  I may be benefit from the RS1000 and the extra money for anamorphic lens
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on March 27, 2019, 06:44:56 PM
Manni summed it up well. Gives us a call and we would be happy to answer questions and talk prices. Also room improvements would help the image a ton.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: AVSMike on March 27, 2019, 06:46:10 PM
Manni I found the contrast to be very good on my RS420 even compared to my 520 is that most likely because of the poor room design?  I may be benefit from the RS1000 and the extra money for anamorphic lens
If you are thinking 1000 and A-lens, needs to call this week, because DCR special ends this month. :) 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: rob-houston on March 28, 2019, 06:16:42 AM
Hi Manni, thanks for replying.  The only thing I could do right now is put up dark wall paper on the back wall.  It's an apartment. Would I be able to use a lot of your calibration tips on the RS1000?

3M Command strips work well for putting up blackout curtains temporarily on a wall.

I took on a contract job that required me to come in at 10:00 PM when the system was available. The contract was supposed to last 6 months. It lasted almost 2 years! I used the strips to cover my bedroom windows with blackout curtains so I could sleep during the day.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Dylan Seeger on March 28, 2019, 08:27:51 AM
Before I bought my first home, I used black velvet curtains on the walls and hung them with command strips too. Very easy to setup and take back down without doing any damage to the walls. For the ceiling I used black flock paper (typically used for telescopes) and just used thumb tacks to secure it to the ceiling. When I moved out of the apartment, you couldn't tell I was using the room for my theater. 
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Sparky on April 08, 2019, 03:08:26 PM
Thank you for the room setup advice.  I just put up 9' black out curtains on the opposite wall of the screen which covers a little more than the width of the screen and runs the length of the wall.  Also, I put some tall 9' black out curtains on the side walls.  The 3M commander strips are amazing and I appreciate the advice.  That is about the most I can do with my space at the moment.  

Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: Manni on April 08, 2019, 03:20:48 PM
I only realize now that this is the old anticipation thread. My fault, I didn't see that when I first replied.

Mike/Craig, any way we could lock this thread so that we keep all the info/questions in the owner's thread (https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=1894.0)?

It's a bit annoying to have the info split in two threads.

I'll unsubscribe to make sure I don't reply by mistake :)

Thanks.
Title: Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
Post by: HomeTheaterGuy on April 09, 2019, 09:39:13 AM
Since this is an old thread, I'm going to lock it. Please continue this discussion in a new thread.