JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

[AVSMike]

I don't know, when I upgraded my RS4910 to my RS600, the improvement in contrast was one of the primary things I noticed, and the RS4910 had "better" contrast than the RS4500 apparently.  So call me skeptical.

I definitely won't be taking a drop in contrast on faith, or buying sight unseen.

Then you need to see one. Kris has had several people over to his house, including Darin, and all of them walked away impressed with the image. The dynamic dimming works very well with the 4500.

[alangouger]

Movies like Guardians of the Galaxy 4K just look spectacular !

Please post some screen shots!!

[stanger89]

I have had MANY people in my theatre and they have seen an X9500 and my X9900 directly against my Z1/RS4500 NOT one person has ever noticed any deficiency  of contrast with the Z1/RS4500.

In fact on more than one instance the Z1/RS4500 appears to exceed the contrast level of the E-Shift units due to its superb laser Dynamic Dimming.

I'm not saying it can't be, just that I'm skeptical, and that I'd have to see one first.  And FWIW, I'm thinking more in the context of a future laser replacement for the RSxx0 series.  An RS4500 class machine is never going to happen for me.  Even if I could afford one, I can't personally justify that expense in my HT, there's too many other things that money could go toward (no judgements on anyone who does have one of course, I'd love to, it's just not in the cards).

Go see one

Then you need to see one. Kris has had several people over to his house, including Darin, and all of them walked away impressed with the image. The dynamic dimming works very well with the 4500.

If only it were that easy.  The ones I know of are all over 800 miles away (Kris, John, Mike/AVS, Craig -formerly).  And on top of that I have 0 trust in showrooms, I have yet to be impressed by any projector in any showroom, so since I'm not actually in the market for one, I'm not inclined to take a multi-day trip just to go see one.

I have no doubt the 4500 throws an impressive image in net.  I'm just a bit skeptical that I wouldn't notice the contrast deficiency vs my RS600.  It wasn't the black level (fade to black) of my RS4910, it was in the mid-low APL scenes where my RS600 is noticably ahead of the prior RS4910.  So unless there's some other secret sauce in the RS4500 that lets it retain much higher intrascene contrast in mid-low APL scenes than something like the RS4910, I think I'd notice.

And maybe it's the optics/optical path that lets it hold the high intrascene contrast to higher APL levels than it's cheaper siblings, I'd believe that, but then that would say it's not due to the laser or laser dimming, it's due to the hardware, hardware which we'll likely never see at the sub $10k area where I'm stuck.

I'd love to see contrast vs ADL measurements like here for the 4500, that would be really informative:
http://projectiondream.com/en/jvc-dla-x5000-review-projector/

[alangouger]

I'd love to see contrast vs ADL measurements like here for the 4500, that would be really informative:
http://projectiondream.com/en/jvc-dla-x5000-review-projector/

Im curious how aggressive Laser dimming is working in the JVC. Has anyone reported a number, is doing 4 or 5 or more x native?

For instance, NEC has a new laser projector that is doing 10X diming which might be too aggressive leading to visible artifacts.

[AVSCraig]

I'm not saying it can't be, just that I'm skeptical, and that I'd have to see one first.  And FWIW, I'm thinking more in the context of a future laser replacement for the RSxx0 series.  An RS4500 class machine is never going to happen for me.  Even if I could afford one, I can't personally justify that expense in my HT, there's too many other things that money could go toward (no judgements on anyone who does have one of course, I'd love to, it's just not in the cards).

If only it were that easy.  The ones I know of are all over 800 miles away (Kris, John, Mike/AVS, Craig -formerly).  And on top of that I have 0 trust in showrooms, I have yet to be impressed by any projector in any showroom, so since I'm not actually in the market for one, I'm not inclined to take a multi-day trip just to go see one.

I have no doubt the 4500 throws an impressive image in net.  I'm just a bit skeptical that I wouldn't notice the contrast deficiency vs my RS600.  It wasn't the black level (fade to black) of my RS4910, it was in the mid-low APL scenes where my RS600 is noticably ahead of the prior RS4910.  So unless there's some other secret sauce in the RS4500 that lets it retain much higher intrascene contrast in mid-low APL scenes than something like the RS4910, I think I'd notice.

And maybe it's the optics/optical path that lets it hold the high intrascene contrast to higher APL levels than it's cheaper siblings, I'd believe that, but then that would say it's not due to the laser or laser dimming, it's due to the hardware, hardware which we'll likely never see at the sub $10k area where I'm stuck.

I'd love to see contrast vs ADL measurements like here for the 4500, that would be really informative:
http://projectiondream.com/en/jvc-dla-x5000-review-projector/

It may be the optics that are partly responsible. It reminds me of my Sim Lumis Host, which was only 6700:1 native and mine measured 15K:1 dynamic. Movies like " Avatar ' look spectacular - head to head with a brand new VW600 ( which at least on paper had much higher dynamic contrast ), everyone preferred the Lumis. DLP look had something to do with it, but the RS4500 has a different look too. You have to see it set up in a theater with Arve custom curves or a Radiance Pro ( or an Oppo with Tone mapping ) - even Cedia / CES demos aren't ideal conditions.

[AVSCraig]

Please post some screen shots!!

Right here - https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=1704.msg8569;topicseen#new

That way folks that don't like screen shots or are on their phones where screen shots slow them down don't have to see them.

[AVSMike]

I'm not saying it can't be, just that I'm skeptical, and that I'd have to see one first.  And FWIW, I'm thinking more in the context of a future laser replacement for the RSxx0 series.  An RS4500 class machine is never going to happen for me.  Even if I could afford one, I can't personally justify that expense in my HT, there's too many other things that money could go toward (no judgements on anyone who does have one of course, I'd love to, it's just not in the cards).

If only it were that easy.  The ones I know of are all over 800 miles away (Kris, John, Mike/AVS, Craig -formerly).  And on top of that I have 0 trust in showrooms, I have yet to be impressed by any projector in any showroom, so since I'm not actually in the market for one, I'm not inclined to take a multi-day trip just to go see one.

I have no doubt the 4500 throws an impressive image in net.  I'm just a bit skeptical that I wouldn't notice the contrast deficiency vs my RS600.  It wasn't the black level (fade to black) of my RS4910, it was in the mid-low APL scenes where my RS600 is noticably ahead of the prior RS4910.  So unless there's some other secret sauce in the RS4500 that lets it retain much higher intrascene contrast in mid-low APL scenes than something like the RS4910, I think I'd notice.

And maybe it's the optics/optical path that lets it hold the high intrascene contrast to higher APL levels than it's cheaper siblings, I'd believe that, but then that would say it's not due to the laser or laser dimming, it's due to the hardware, hardware which we'll likely never see at the sub $10k area where I'm stuck.

I'd love to see contrast vs ADL measurements like here for the 4500, that would be really informative:
http://projectiondream.com/en/jvc-dla-x5000-review-projector/

Look at this post by Kris.
https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=15.msg3099#msg3099

[AVSMike]

Im curious how aggressive Laser dimming is working in the JVC. Has anyone reported a number, is doing 4 or 5 or more x native?

For instance, NEC has a new laser projector that is doing 10X diming which might be too aggressive leading to visible artifacts.

I would guess the 4500 is doing 5 or 6x.

[stanger89]

I'd forgotten about those, thanks.

Anyone know what patterns were used for those?

[alangouger]

I would guess the 4500 is doing 5 or 6x.

Has anyone measured native contrast then tried measuring again with laser dimming activated?

[AVSCraig]

Has anyone measured native contrast then tried measuring again with laser dimming activated?

Kris Deering has - https://www.soundandvision.com/content/jvc-dla-rs4500-d-ila-projector-review

[alangouger]

What are the numbers with and without dimming?

[Dylan Seeger]

The dynamic contrast system has changed in software a few times since launch. So I would have Kris or another current owner confirm the dynamic contrast measurements to see if they're still the same with the latest firmware:

Kris's review states:

The full-on/full-off contrast was measured with a Minolta T-10 meter from 4 inches away from the lens face. I tested the projector in various laser levels with the lens aperture in various conditions. The highest native contrast ratio (dynamic laser disabled) was obtained with the projector in High laser mode with the aperture fully closed (–15). This produced a contrast ratio of around 8,000:1. Using the dynamic laser in Mode 2 (aperture fully open) resulted in a peak contrast ratio of approximately 47,000:1 in High laser mode. For my viewing I used the projector in Mid laser mode with the aperture set to –10. At the approximate mid-zoom lens position, this produced a native contrast ratio of about 15,000:1 and 16 ft-L on my screen. When I enabled Mode 2 for dynamic laser dimming it took the contrast ratio up to 78,000:1. Max peak contrast was 150,000:1, measured in High laser mode, the dynamic laser dimming engaged, and the aperture fully closed. The user setup plays a huge role in what type of contrast performance you can expect to see.

[alangouger]

Thank you, Dylan. Amazing numbers. Does the projector allow the use of both dynamic iris and laser dimming at the same time or just one or the other?

[Baseball0618]

Thank you, Dylan. Amazing numbers. Does the projector allow the use of both dynamic iris and laser dimming at the same time or just one or the other?

It doesn’t have a dynamic iris it has a manual iris and dynamic laser dimming system.