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JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread

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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #180 on: January 07, 2019, 08:28:19 PM »
I agree with all of the above, in fact, I had mentioned this privately to a number of people a few days ago once you had resurfaced on AVS, that I would much prefer an open dialogue with Ekki rather than not, and perhaps with time, we can all get on the same page here and actually share openly information and findings, and more importantly, be able to correlate them with one another. That is far more powerful than the alternative.

I will say I took a pretty huge issue with the photos that have been shared so far, and it did not come from an aspect of anything to do with personalities or individuals, more, an issue with how data was presented and what conclusions could be made from it, since it was quite an unfair comparison, I made that pretty clear cut I think, but lets put that behind us, there are going to be lots of new data points available to compare in the coming days.

Ekki, something I would like to see, if possible, can we please dig into how you achieved your Sony Laser dynamic numbers, A few of us have found it rather odd that nobody other than your self has been able to replicate the numbers, and the persons involved have actually tried hard to reach the same numbers, Kris Deering included. If you dont want to publicly mention it, that's fine, but if you dont mind, I think actually Kris would highly appreciate clarity on the matter.

I look forward to reading about series tests with the full new JVC range, I am rather hopeful that the N7 is a rather surprising machine in comparison to the NX9, most interested if the lack of the Eshift element inside may possibly give it an edge in the ANSI contrast and lead to an interesting performance aspect in comparison.

Anyway, hope you stick around for a civil chat Ekki.
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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #181 on: January 07, 2019, 08:30:33 PM »
I agree with that 100%!  ;)


Great!

About the conversation of JVC drift back then, I hardly remember details. I sure never intend to be arrogant in the first place, but sometimes others on AVS are also quite arrogant to me and then problems start.  ;D

If I remember right, we just had different findings about the drift issue of he JVCs. Actually I fear, we still will not agree on the drift pattern of the JVCs but rest assured I never meant to say that I consider you data as false.

I just try to say that I have also other data and that therefore I see no singular drift pattern for all JVCs. And yes, that is also an issue with SXRD (the contrats loss even worse), I really am not defending either brand here ;-)

Regards,
EKki
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 08:32:59 PM by Cine4Home »

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #182 on: January 07, 2019, 08:30:42 PM »

I had such a discussion with them about it when the VW5000 came out which had inacceptable color depth. First reaction was that the player is incompatible (only Panasonic & Samsung available back then) but then they released an update which solved it to an acceptable level in my opinion. With "acceptable" I mean that by far most people do not notice it and personally am not so allergic against it either. But it is still there.

I do not think that a digital bottleneck causes it as the posterization differs with Panel temperature. And it also occurs with FullHD. And there is a big deviation between machines also. I therefore think more of a PWM issue.

Regards,
Ekki

Yes, I see that it does vary slightly on a unit to unit basis. Seeing how the panel driver feeds the SXRD panels information via pulse width modulation I think we're talking about the same thing. It's a limitation with how Sony feeds the panels information. It would seem a complete overhaul to their SXRD technology will need to happen to overcome this issue. JVC uses PWM as well and does not suffer the same issues. I do see some very minor dither noise on lower IREs with JVC projectors, but it is not even remotely close to what I see on Sony projectors.

I suppose this begs the question; Does Sony feel they they've "fixed" this issue now with the firmware update the 5000ES received? If so, that is unacceptable.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 08:33:14 PM by Dylan Seeger »
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AVSMike

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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #183 on: January 07, 2019, 08:42:31 PM »
Have removed/edited posts with personal attacks. If I missed anything. Please let me know.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 08:45:03 PM by AVSMike »
My Baffle Wall System: https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=124.msg902#msg902

Mike Garrett
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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #184 on: January 07, 2019, 08:49:55 PM »
Nigel,

I really did not get an email from you for ages, honestly. Last time we emailed was about all the Z1 issues where we both(!) were no very amused about JVC if I am allowed to remind you ;-)

I am never anti brand, I just evaluate products. And it is no secret that I do no think that the Z1 lives up to its hype for many reasons. But I do not want to start that discussion now, because that would never end.

If I did receive emails form you after that, I would of course have talked to you about it. Maybe they are in my spam filter, dunno.

Coming back to AVS after over a year of abstinence seeng all this badmouthing from you, I was just done with it. Like I said above, I have no problem with discussions, but not on that level. I simply have not the time for such endless back & forth, participating in forums is just a hobby of me.

But I can see that you try to sort things out and at least admit that you might be wrong about me being biased. I do appreciate that, which is why I answer here now ;-)

To be honest, I never had a bad impression of you until I saw all that bashing against me which I btw. do not understand at all. I did never anything against you and never talked badly about you anyhwere. I just do not agree with you on the Z1 perfomance it seems, that is all.

So ok, lets just be decent to each other again :-)

Regarding the VW Lasers, I havent followed that discussion on AVS at all. At one point someone posted in my forum that he only reaches 22.000:1 max(!) with dimming. That is quite odd, as the VW4k models can reach that natively already.

Regards,
Ekki
Ekki,
That's great thank you. I did actually already edit the handful of posts wherein I referred to you as being biased when I said I'd give you the benefit of the doubt so if I have got you wrong regarding this I apologize. I owe you lunch and/or a drink sometime sir ;)

Regarding the VW Lasers because this is off topic regarding this thread let's discuss the matter via email wherein if it's OK I'd like to copy in and bring Kris Deering into the discussion. Because you did not seem to get my previous email, instead of replying to our previous lengthy email discussion I will send you a fresh email, which I have just done now, if you can please kindly reply so I know you have received it?

Best,
Nigel
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 08:52:00 PM by ARROW-AV »

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #185 on: January 07, 2019, 08:52:32 PM »
I'm happy everyone made up and apologized. It's sad that we fight over the most trivial of things. Let's be honest and admit that we could all live happily with either a Sony or JVC projector. Even if one brand is clearly better than the other. :D :P
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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #186 on: January 07, 2019, 09:02:02 PM »
The temptation to take the first unit AVScience got would be too much for me. You must have the patience of a saint. :)

(or just a very strict protocol about who gets the first units haha)

It is a learned trait. I am still learning it. :)
My Baffle Wall System: https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=124.msg902#msg902

Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Da-Lite, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan & more.

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #187 on: January 07, 2019, 09:03:13 PM »
I agree with all of the above, in fact, I had mentioned this privately to a number of people a few days ago once you had resurfaced on AVS, that I would much prefer an open dialogue with Ekki rather than not, and perhaps with time, we can all get on the same page here and actually share openly information and findings, and more importantly, be able to correlate them with one another. That is far more powerful than the alternative.

Great, I am glad we found together here all. This is a better place as not so many others are interfering here permanently ;-)

I will say I took a pretty huge issue with the photos that have been shared so far, and it did not come from an aspect of anything to do with personalities or individuals, more, an issue with how data was presented and what conclusions could be made from it, since it was quite an unfair comparison, I made that pretty clear cut I think, but lets put that behind us, there are going to be lots of new data points available to compare in the coming days.

See this pictures were not(!) part of my first Mini-Review for a good reason, they were simply asked for by german readers in a complete different context. And I gave them to them with comments that the NX9 sharpness was just fine, that this text example is just a special case, that it hardy affects movie experience and so on.


Also I know that they are not perfect, they were put together spontaneously because people asked for them. And I still insist:  they are not sooo bad "out of focus" either when you consider how really really tiny the holes are. So tiny that you do not see them from 1m distance. And I shared them with people who were there at the shoot out (Mori) for example so I did not see a problem with the pics at all where i released them. Of course without any explanation / context just sharing the picture they of course trigger such a controversy like they did. That is why I tried to explain exactly that on AVS just to get harrassed like that again. So no, I  was not to happy about that you took that picture without my permission ot of context.   :P

Also quality aside, when witnesses and I say that the pics represent the real look, I would hope that people have so much respect of me not to insinuate that I was lying or even doctorig the picture to make the NX9 look bad. Especially after others confirmed all my other measures and findings (whooper on AVS for example).

I really hope that this "picture gate" got clear now once and for all ;-)


Ekki, something I would like to see, if possible, can we please dig into how you achieved your Sony Laser dynamic numbers, A few of us have found it rather odd that nobody other than your self has been able to replicate the numbers, and the persons involved have actually tried hard to reach the same numbers, Kris Deering included. If you dont want to publicly mention it, that's fine, but if you dont mind, I think actually Kris would highly appreciate clarity on the matter.

Actually I am talking to Kris about the VW995 and its dynamic behavior for two days already.

I look forward to reading about series tests with the full new JVC range, I am rather hopeful that the N7 is a rather surprising machine in comparison to the NX9, most interested if the lack of the Eshift element inside may possibly give it an edge in the ANSI contrast and lead to an interesting performance aspect in comparison.

Yes, the eShift thing will be interesting. I also hope that the final series machine will have more ANSI. The picture depth was fine anyway.

Regarding the N7 I find too that this will be the most interesting of the three. I really like the new JVCs and you guys will also see that my reviews will be totally fair and objective.  I only have some concerns regarding its DCI P3 brightness. It will have around 1200 lumens max calibrated is my "educated guess".

Anyway, hope you stick around for a civil chat Ekki.

I sure will. ;-)

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #188 on: January 07, 2019, 09:09:02 PM »
I'm happy everyone made up and apologized. It's sad that we fight over the most trivial of things. Let's be honest and admit that we could all live happily with either a Sony or JVC projector. Even if one brand is clearly better than the other. :D :P

See that is why I can never win. If JVC fans like my reviews, Sony fans hate me and vice versa.
No to forget the Epson crowd and the DLP party oh my oh my..

 ::) ::)

AVSMike

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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #189 on: January 07, 2019, 09:10:09 PM »
I'm happy everyone made up and apologized. It's sad that we fight over the most trivial of things. Let's be honest and admit that we could all live happily with either a Sony or JVC projector. Even if one brand is clearly better than the other. :D :P

Yes, once properly calibrated, the images are a lot closer than they are different. I also do not understand the comments on AVSF, where I am called a JVC only dealer. Here in the US, pretty much any dealer that sells JVC also sells Sony. Years ago, many people thought I was pro Sony. Now days I am called pro JVC. Heck, I just recommend what I think is best for the individual. It does not help Sony here in the US with their SURE pricing policy. Makes the price comparison pretty lopsided. In Europe it is not that way.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 09:15:24 PM by AVSMike »
My Baffle Wall System: https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=124.msg902#msg902

Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Da-Lite, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan & more.

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #190 on: January 07, 2019, 09:24:33 PM »
Years ago, many people thought I was pro Sony. Now days I am called pro JVC.

Oh I see we have all the same problem. With me it is one year Epson bias, then JVC bias, then Sony bias ans so on never stops...

Even LG(!) bias I got accused of when I gave a good review to the LG PF1500 (which I like much for what it is).

The truth is, that the high end models get closer and closer. Actually that was the result of our NX9/VW760/VW870 shootout, they all were close, they all had their pros and cons. There was no single winner.

Regards,
EKki

 

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #191 on: January 07, 2019, 09:35:26 PM »
Oh I see we have all the same problem. With me it is one year Epson bias, then JVC bias, then Sony bias ans so on never stops...

Regards,
EKki
Hi Ekki, I sent you and email asking you to confirm you have received it but have got no response... Can you please check your email? Thank you  ;)

EDIT: If you have not received it then please try sending me and email and I will try replying to that

Best,
Nigel

P.S. I coped in Kris Deering

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #192 on: January 07, 2019, 10:31:51 PM »
We've all been through it. I used to be called a DLP fanboy because I used to complain about issues JVC projectors had. This was circa 2008 and 2009. The irony in all this makes me laugh. Who knows, maybe in a few years I'll be known as a Sony fanboy. All I know is that I go to where the best image is. For me, at the moment, it's with JVC. I'm eagerly awaiting someone else to impress me more.
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Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #193 on: January 07, 2019, 10:51:11 PM »
We've all been through it. I used to be called a DLP fanboy because I used to complain about issues JVC projectors had. This was circa 2008 and 2009. The irony in all this makes me laugh. Who knows, maybe in a few years I'll be known as a Sony fanboy. All I know is that I go to where the best image is. For me, at the moment, it's with JVC. I'm eagerly awaiting someone else to impress me more.
Prepare to be impressed  ;): https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/3018138-christie-large-venue-demonstration-2.html#post57023378

[EDIT: I know you have already seen this, but for the benefit of those who have not  ;)]
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 10:54:39 PM by ARROW-AV »

Re: JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread
« Reply #194 on: January 07, 2019, 11:01:23 PM »
I should have rephrased that. The best image that I can afford is where I go. :) Even the RS2000 at the moment is a bit of a stretch for me.
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