JVC RS1000 / 2000 Anticipation Thread

[Dylan Seeger]

He's a very knowledgeable guy and I respect him for that knowledge. I don't think he was expecting this much blow-back from the photos he posted. Maybe he thought no one was going to notice? A lot of us live and breath projectors and could tell immediately from the photos posted that something just wasn't right with that NX9. Either eshift was on or there was something wrong with that pre-production unit. You can't make out pixels at all. Was the lens on the projector in perfect focus too? I mean, one click off from ideal lens focus, eshift being enabled and the camera's lens not being in focus could have made the NX9 look that way. It's fine if these things happened on accident but it's a whole different thing if it was done on purpose to make the Sony look better than the JVC. Based on his comments and attitude, I'm leaning towards the latter. I'm going to try and get a Sony 4K in-house to do a little shootout and posting photos against my new RS2000. I have a feeling my photos won't look anything like Ekki's.

[AVSMike]

Ekki just confirmed E-shift was turned on.

[Dylan Seeger]

Very strange to use the NX9 in a mode that can't 1:1 pixel match to the Sony.

[golden04]

Mike, when do you get yours?

[Cine4Home]

Very strange to use the NX9 in a mode that can't 1:1 pixel match to the Sony.

Well of course we turned it on and off to check if it made any difference. It did not. So it really does not matter in that case.

BTW, hey everybody, I just found out about this Forum

:-)

Regards,
Ekki

[Cine4Home]

I asked Ekki if E-shift was on in the photo and he never answered. Another poster also asked and still no answer.

Well that is because I was not on in the forum in the meantime. Simple as that.
Why is it that ever tiny thing has to lead to conspiracy theories?

Regards,
Ekki

[Cine4Home]

Like listing max lumens after going into the service menu and making adjustments to the white point to get max lumens. Then doing other adjustments to get max contrast and listing those numbers. Two problems. One projector is not properly calibrated and two, you can't get the max lumens and the max contrast. You can only get one or the other, because it requires different settings.

We always list calibrated numbers as well as Maximum numbers. I dont know if that gets lost in Translation sometimes, but your Assertion above is not correct.

Thanks & regards,
Ekki

[Cine4Home]

Interestingly enough, Ekki has only posted images of black text on a white background. This is the only way the Sony's can keep up with the JVCs in terms of resolution on screen. Once you throw color into the mix the Sony's cannot keep up.

No that was not my Intention. I posted These Pictures because People asked me about it. In the german Forum I explained the whole context and this was completely lost on AVS because the Pictures were just posted there without the corresponding explanations.

Really, I do not understand these conspracy theories. I was praising the N-series quite often during the last weeks, actually. If you want to discuss their perfomance without prejudices, let me know. ;-)

Thanks & Regards,
Ekki

[Cine4Home]

And what was Ekki's response? I'm paraphrasing here but he said that it's not his fault that people don't know how to measure on/off contrast properly.

No I did not say that. I said that measuring the dynamic contrast of Sony projectors is no rocket science. I also said that anyone really wondering about my numbers could have emailed my politely and I would have discussed it with him. To my surprise, nobody did that but rather put out conspiracy theories about me. And now to my surprise, you just did also not paraphrase all these offers I made either.

BTW: I have a great relation to Kris and we discuss our results openly and with respect. Unlike others, he knows what decency looks like.

Regards,
Ekki

[AVSCraig]

We always list calibrated numbers as well as Maximum numbers. I dont know if that gets lost in Translation sometimes, but your Assertion above is not correct.

Thanks & regards,
Ekki

I'm starting to think that there could be communication failure at times with translating from German to English. At least it doesn't help.

[Dylan Seeger]

No I did not say that. I said that measuring the dynamic contrast of Sony projectors is no rocket science. I also said that anyone really wondering about my numbers could have emailed my politely and I would have discussed it with him. To my surprise, nobody did that but rather put out conspiracy theories about me. And now to my surprise, you just did also not paraphrase all these offers I made either.

BTW: I have a great relation to Kris and we discuss our results openly and with respect. Unlike others, he knows what decency looks like.

Regards,
Ekki

It seems the post that I was paraphrasing has been deleted by a moderator, otherwise I would have quoted it here. My interpretation of what you said was exactly what I mentioned in the post you quoted. The insinuation was that some people apparently don't know how to measure contrast and that is why there is a discrepancy between your numbers and everyone else's. I've seen plenty of Sony 4K models over the years and none of the more recent models were able to achieve anywhere near that amount of dynamic contrast. I measure with my Minolta CL-200 at the lens on a tripod a few centimeters away because I know that the more light the meter gets for the black level reading the more accurate it is. As long as you have a quality lux meter it is very easy to get correct contrast numbers and the results are repeatable when measuring this way. Kris Deering and Nigel (Arrow-AV) have quality lux meters and know how to properly measure contrast. We bring up your dynamic contrast numbers and take issue with them because they aren't in line with what other people are reporting.

Kris and I have spoken on the phone before and we have a good rapport with one another through email and on forums like this. He's a very honest and thorough calibrator and reviewer. Hopefully you can tell him how you were able to achieve that much dynamic contrast. Maybe he can repeat your settings and measuring technique and measure the same amount of dynamic contrast that you have.

As I said above, I have a lot of respect for you. But that doesn't mean that I can't disagree with you or call things out that don't seem correct. If things were reversed I would hope you would do the same thing to me. How else are we going to know the truth about things?

[Cine4Home]

I'm starting to think that there could be communication failure at times with translating from German to English. At least it doesn't help.

Well that seems to be a problem at times, I understand that.
If you were to understand german you would see the whole thing with the picture also diffently as I did not post them without a very detailed explanation. This was all missing on AVS because of the "abuse" of redistrubiting it without asking me upfront.

Now regarding contrast: The "non calibrated" highest Number auf the NX9 I could get is about 90,000:1. With native colortemprature, Iris closed and zoom minimized.

Real world contrast (with right colors) is about 22,000:1 to 25,000:1. And of course these are higher than the calibrated numbers of the Sony which are 13,000:1 to 18.000:1. In dark scenes the NX9 shows a better black level.

Dynamic values I could not really compare as the DI of the NX9 was not working to well. Being it a PrePro I want to wait for the final FW-version before making comparison.

Hope that became clearer now.

 

Regards,
Ekki

[Cine4Home]

As I said above, I have a lot of respect for you. But that doesn't mean that I can't disagree with you or call things out that don't seem correct.  If things were reversed I would hope you would do the same thing to me. How else are we going to know the truth about things?

I have no problem with that whatsoever. If you can not second my results, of course you disagree with them. But it is another thing to call names.  When you for ex. give thumb up to a post above where I am called "Sony4Home" and pretty much a total liar, that does not show much respect, do you think? You really wanted me to act also like this if things were reversed? I do not think so 

That is exactly the point I try to make since saturday: If anybody wonders about my results, he can contact me in a decent manner and I will react and try to explain. But that did not happen, instead there were tons of defamations going on on AVS I did not know about,  as I have not been there for about a year (had some health issues, which is why not much happened on C4H either during the last year).  So coming back there the other day, I see all that hate / defamation triggered mainly by one guy, why would  I invite him over to explain? Sorry, but that is asked a little too much.

Disagreeing is fine, defamation is not. Red line was crossed. That is why I do not want to deal with this guy (Nigel is his name?) anymore, I put him on my ignore list.

Complete other story with Kris, he is like I said the exact opposite. Of course I talk to him about my findings.

So I hope we can put this all to a rest and talk about the N-series here.  I really do not like the aggressive atmosphere at the old AVS and I hope it is another spirit over here, that is why i registered today.


Regards,
Ekki

[Dylan Seeger]

I have no problem with that whatsoever. If you can not second my results, of course you disagree with them. But it is another thing to call names.  When you for ex. give thumb up to a post above where I am called "Sony4Home" and pretty much a total liar, that does not show much respect, do you think? You really wanted me to act also like this if things were reversed? I do not think so 

That is exactly the point I try to make since saturday: If anybody wonders about my results, he can contact me in a decent manner and I will react and try to explain. But that did not happen, instead there were tons of defamations going on on AVS I did not know about,  as I have not been there for about a year (had some health issues, which is why not much happened on C4H either during the last year).  So coming back there the other day, I see all that hate / defamation triggered mainly by one guy, why would  I invite him over to explain? Sorry, but that is asked a little too much.

Disagreeing is fine, defamation is not. Red line was crossed. That is why I do not want to deal with this guy (Nigel is his name?) anymore, I put him on my ignore list.

Complete other story with Kris, he is like I said the exact opposite. Of course I talk to him about my findings.

So I hope we can put this all to a rest and talk about the N-series here.  I really do not like the aggressive atmosphere at the old AVS and I hope it is another spirit over here, that is why i registered today.


Regards,
Ekki

Over the last two years that forum has become very hostile. I've been labeled "pro-JVC" and I admit that I have a preference towards JVC projectors. But that is because I've done the hard work and compared them side by side in my theater. I think JVC projectors produce a better overall image not because of something I've read online but because I've seen it with my own eyes. If that makes me biased then so be it. If Sony had a projector that had a better image I would own a Sony projector. That is a fact. In the US, JVC projectors are also a lot cheaper to buy so for me I have no issues recommending and buying a projector from JVC. I've owned a lot of projectors over the years so I feel entitled to my opinion:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1435591-look-what-avs-made-me-do.html

No projector is perfect, however, my feelings are that the issues that plague Sony projectors are far worse than the issues that plague JVC projectors. Sony doesn't seem to care about fixing these issues. I say that because these issues have been there on all Sony 4K models since the 1000ES. That model was released 8 years ago. I'm referring to banding, posterization, panel degradation causing contrast loss, lumen output loss, gamma droop, color gamut shrinkage and terrible white field uniformity. JVC projectors have gamma droop but it only happens once and once you correct it, the issue is resolved. JVC seems to try very hard at correcting issues that buyers and reviewers complain about. Between the issues Sony projectors have and the attitude Sony has about fixing them is why I won't own or recommend a Sony 4K projector. That is until Sony fixes the problems I have with them.

[Cine4Home]

Over the last two years that forum has become very hostile.

Yeah, I found that out quickly. 
If you havent been there for a long time and show back like I did, it is really shocking

I've been labeled "pro-JVC" and I admit that I have a preference towards JVC projectors.

Is that some new trend, stereotyping people one does not agree with?
Kinda sad I think.

But that is because I've done the hard work and compared them side by side in my theater. I think JVC projectors produce a better overall image not because of something I've read online but because I've seen it with my own eyes. If that makes me biased then so be it. If Sony had a projector that had a better image I would own a Sony projector. That is a fact. In the US, JVC projectors are also a lot cheaper to buy so for me I have no issues recommending and buying a projector from JVC. I've owned a lot of projectors over the years so I feel entitled to my opinion:

I think you are refering to posterization and so on. Well that is your right, I can understand that people get annoyed by that. On the other hand I can unterstand also that others are annoyed by JVC "quirks"

Actually it is a good thing that people have different preferences. There is no need to fight. I alwys try just to show the pros & cons of each model and try to animate the reader finding out himself, what he likes better. That is why we normally do not give simple "grades" below our reviews.

No projector is perfect, however, my feelings are that the issues that plague Sony projectors are far worse than the issues that plague JVC projectors. Sony doesn't seem to care about fixing these issues because they've been there on all Sony 4K models since the 1000ES. JVC seems to try very hard at correcting issues that buyers and reviewers complain about. Between the issues Sony projectors have and the attitude Sony has about fixing them is why I won't own a Sony 4K projector. That is until Sony fixes the problems I have with them.

Well I do not agree with that at all. When you directly talk to Sony engineers they are really open, also about problems and they are working on them. This goes also to JVC, but they for example never aknowledged drifting problems where Sony did. I do not see here one beeing better than the other. Pretty much a tie. ;-)

Please note that I am talking about my European / japanese contacts here, so it mght differ from other countries.

Regards,
Ekki