2018 CEDIA projector thread

[Javs]

That is good to hear, because once I 100% confirm the new JVC's can do vertical stretch with 4K 60P source, I will probably sell my Oppo.

And use what? Panny 820?

[ARROW-AV]

That is good to hear, because once I 100% confirm the new JVC's can do vertical stretch with 4K 60P source, I will probably sell my Oppo.

And use what? Panny 820?

That would be my recommendation. Although you won't need the Panny's HDR Optimizer because the new JVC's already have the same thing built-in! 

[Tom Bley]

The thing I like about the Oppo is the 21:9 setting where it scales to 16:9 with a button press.  With a 2.35 screen I don't have to constantly zoom in and out using the lens memory settings.

[woofer]

The thing I like about the Oppo is the 21:9 setting where it scales to 16:9 with a button press.  With a 2.35 screen I don't have to constantly zoom in and out using the lens memory settings.

On this subject  , just how much resolution is being lost by doing this?

I use this feature as well from time to time when i cant be bothered changing the lens memory, but just wondering how much it is compromising the image?

[DLCPhoto]

That would be my recommendation. Although you won't need the Panny's HDR Optimizer because the new JVC's already have the same thing built-in! 

Regarding this: do you have any idea (and I realize it may not be possible just yet to answer this) how the JVC's implementation of this tone-mapping function compares with how it is being done with the UB820 (which is receiving rave reviews in this regard)?

One reason I ask is that if the JVC's is just as good, it could also be used for streaming HDR content from Netflix, Amazon, etc. (correct?), while the UB-820 apparently does not allow this at this time.  If that is the case, then I could potentially put that $500 towards the purchase of the N7 (to replace my current RS400).

Thanks!

[ARROW-AV]

Regarding this: do you have any idea (and I realize it may not be possible just yet to answer this) how the JVC's implementation of this tone-mapping function compares with how it is being done with the UB820 (which is receiving rave reviews in this regard)?

One reason I ask is that if the JVC's is just as good, it could also be used for streaming HDR content from Netflix, Amazon, etc. (correct?), while the UB-820 apparently does not allow this at this time.  If that is the case, then I could potentially put that $500 towards the purchase of the N7 (to replace my current RS400).

Thanks!

Both the JVC's and the Panasonic's corresponding 'Auto HDR Tone-Mapping' features in this regard operate the same way. They both analyze the static metadata MAX CLL and MAX FALL and automatically adjust the tone mapping accordingly. So yes, they are extremely similar.

But by having this kind of functionality built into the projector, as opposed to a singular item of source equipment, this will of course function with all HDR content that is fed to the projector, whereas with the Panasonic you are limited to whatever media it supports. So, yes, with the new JVCs you can indeed stream HDR content from Netflix, Amazon, etc. to the projector and it will apply the 'Auto HDR Tone-Mapping' (as long as you have it turned on of course). How cool is that? 

[DLCPhoto]

Both the JVC's and the Panasonic's corresponding 'Auto HDR Tone-Mapping' features in this regard operate in the same way. They both analyze the static metadata MAX CLL and MAX FALL and automatically adjust the tone mapping accordingly. So yes, they are extremely similar.

But by having this kind of functionality built into the projector, as opposed to a singular item of source equipment, this will of course function with all HDR content that is fed to the projector, whereas with the Panasonic you are limited to whatever media it supports. So, yes, with the new JVCs you can indeed stream HDR content from Netflix, Amazon, etc. to the projector and it will apply the 'Auto HDR Tone-Mapping'
(as long as you have it turned on of course). How cool is that? 

Very cool, indeed, although I can think of perhaps 7,000 or so reasons why this is definitely not cool!!

[ARROW-AV]

Very cool, indeed, although I can think of perhaps 7,000 or so reasons why this is definitely not cool!!

Such as? You own a JVC 7000 perhaps?

[ARROW-AV]

I should add that another cool feature is that it also informs you what is the media's MAX CLL and MAX FALL as well:

2018 CEDIA projector thread

AND there's a 'MAPPING LEVEL' slider for use with large and small screen sizes. This is akin to diffuse white and brightness factor adjustment with respect to the gamma, which makes the overall image brighter or darker accordingly. However, it is worth noting that the brighter the image, the less the headroom for the bright highlights. So you will need to be careful not to increase this too much or else this will blow highlights; and counterwise if you reduce this too much you will crush shadow detail at near black:

2018 CEDIA projector thread

Without a doubt, the JVC ‘Auto Tone Mapping’ feature is a very significant improvement as compared with the pre-existing / previous HDR functionality, and possibly is even superior as compared with typical utilization of custom gamma curves

[DLCPhoto]

I should add that another cool feature is that it also informs you what is the media's MAX CLL and MAX FALL as well:

AND there's a 'MAPPING LEVEL' slider for use with adjusting to different screen sizes, where this increases or decreases the range. So for example with larger sized screens you can move the slider to the right and this will increase the overall brightness of the image, but at the expense of reducing the headroom for bright highlights at the top end:

Yeah, thi$ i$ pretty impre$$ive.  If it ju$t weren't for tho$e $even thou$and or $o other rea$on$!!

[DLCPhoto]

Pardon the slight tangent from the main topic of the new projector line, but regarding the UB820 and the issue where we can't use SDR-2020 with streaming HDR content, I have been in touch with Robert Zohn, and with his permission, here is what he said:

I am working with Panasonic’s engineers in Japan about making SDR/2020 work for HDR/2020 content from Netflix and other streaming services. 

I can’t say for sure if this will be implemented in a firmware update as it seems to be something Netflix is forcing.  Still checking so stand by for an official answer.

He said he'd get back to me either way, that he's en route to CEDIA, so here's hoping for something positive from Panasonic on this!

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming....

[DavidHir]

I have found the Panasonic 820's white tone control to also be effective in reducing clipping and intensity of brighter specular highlights.  You can also see the reduction of clipping with it on the Sony UHD test pattern (which is on any Sony UHD BD...just type in 7669 with the remote on the main menu of the disc).  Hopefully JVC includes this as a similar feature as I find it worthwhile for sure.

[DLCPhoto]

I have found the Panasonic 820's white tone control to also be effective in reducing clipping and intensity of brighter specular highlights.  You can also see the reduction of clipping with it on the Sony UHD test pattern (which is on any Sony UHD BD...just type in 7669 with the remote on the main menu of the disc).  Hopefully JVC includes this as a similar feature as I find it worthwhile for sure.

When I read about the black and white tone controls, I wondered if these were analogous to the JVC's Dark Level and Bright Level Gamma controls, enabling you to adjust the bottom and top ends of the curve, while having minimal effect on the rest of it.  I could definitely see that being useful to fine-tune things.

I'm guessing the new JVC's make those adjustments as part of its optimizer and tone-mapping.  I forget if I've seen screen captures, and am wondering if they have these same Gamma adjustments as the current generations, and if these are what gets tweaked as part of its processing.

[Dylan Seeger]

I wonder if this tone mapping functionality took Sony and Epson by surprise? I wonder if we'll see this functionality set the standard among higher-end projectors in the industry and all subsequent models from all of these companies will have it. It's definitely something that's needed due to the variable nature of projection setups and their limited brightness capabilities. I wonder how it will compare to using MadVR's tone mapping functionality. I plan on playing around with both to see which one looks better.

[ARROW-AV]

I wonder if this tone mapping functionality took Sony and Epson by surprise? I wonder if we'll see this functionality set the standard among higher-end projectors in the industry and all subsequent models from all of these companies will have it. It's definitely something that's needed due to the variable nature of projection setups and their limited brightness capabilities. I wonder how it will compare to using MadVR's tone mapping functionality. I plan on playing around with both to see which one looks better.

I think it's fair to say that pretty much everything about JVCs new projectors took SONY by surprise...   

I would expect MadVR to be superior, so I will be very interested to hear your feedback regarding which is better and hence whether or not this is the case.