2018 CEDIA projector thread

[ARROW-AV]

I hear you; and I absolutely agree with you... Unfortunately it's not that kind of meeting

And I hate to say it but I fully expect to be seeing precisely the same list of issues, including posterization. I will be amazed if this is not the case... Let's see 

[Dylan Seeger]

Well....looks like EVERYTHING on my list from 2014 seems to be happening this year:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1522343-jvc-4k-projector-what-does-jvc-need-accomplish-compete-sony.html

Better late than never i suppose. 

[ARROW-AV]

UPDATE:

I just had another private meeting with JVC and the main technical guy was there.

Regarding the lens on the N5 and N7, the reality is that the lens is the same lens but which has been improved. In other words, JVC took the existing lens design and have made some improvements. Therefore, it is neither the same lens nor completely new, but is definitely better as compared with the lens on the existing eshift range

Furthermore, with respect to the prevously reported video noise, yes there was some instances of video noise, however I have also seen instances where there is none. I also do not remember seeing any video noise whatsoever with respect to the native 4K content that I myself put on yesterday. And further to this during my private meeting with JVC today I confirmed this fact.

I also have confirmed that there is also absolutely ZERO additional noise added when turning eShift 8K on with respect to the NX9.

The only instance of video noise that I have witnessed today is with respect to HD content being upscaled by the projector, which it is not recommended that you do anyway; it is best to feed the projector HD that is pre-upscaled optimally to 4K.

And with respect to yesterday, since there was not the ability to have proper handson we don't know what exactly was the situation regarding what was being actually sent to the projector in all instances, so it is possible that native 4K content was being outputted to the projector as HD 1080p. In fact, I discovered after I was handed the remote that the OPPO player had indeed for God knows what reason been set such that it was outputting everything as 1080p

:wink:

[Tom Bley]

Good to know that JVC made improvements to the lens for the N5/N7.  I guess it remains to be seen what the improvements show.   I'm a bit surprised that no N5/N7 are showing being that they are to be available in a couple of months.  I hope  they show them at cedia.

[Dylan Seeger]

Great news Arrow! These are shaping up to be very exciting projectors indeed.

[Dylan Seeger]

Good to know that JVC made improvements to the lens for the N5/N7.  I guess it remains to be seen what the improvements show.   I'm a bit surprised that no N5/N7 are showing being that they are to be available in a couple of months.  I hope  they show them at cedia.

This is pretty typical for trade shows. They want to muster up as much excitement for their flagship projector as they can.

[AVSCraig]

UPDATE:

I just had my own private meeting with JVC and the main technical guy was there.

I found the video from my UB900 to look a tad better than the Oppo, to be honest. I'd be interested to see HD upscaled  by a UB900 or UB820. I'll bet it looks great. Let the player upscale to 4K and then see what happens. We need to check the output source at Cedia.

[Dylan Seeger]

Letting a player do the upscaling is preferable anyways to cut down on input lag which will introduce more lip sync issues.

[Dylan Seeger]

It's nice to hear that the bump in ANSI contrast is among the whole lineup, not just the N9. I'm assuming this means something has been changed on the chip/light engine level. Also, I'm betting the removal of the eshift device on the two lower models helps. It's possible the eshift deivce cancels out the better ANSI contrast potential on the N9's mega lens. Haha

Getting rid of internal reflections alone could have been more than enough to get that boost in ANSI contrast. The JVC engineers did mention that this is a completely new light engine design so this is possible. Removal of internal reflections from a better light engine design, better lens quality (they mention no streaking too!!) and some chip level enhancements are welcome gains in performance.

With that said, I've been vocal about ANSI contrast not mattering as much as on/off contrast. I still stand by that assessment and I think there is a very real point of diminished returns, but that does not mean that I'm not going to be happy that JVC (or anyone else for that matter) is boosting performance in areas that were lacking by comparison to the competition out there. The one area that JVC needs to work on just a tad bit more is motion resolution. If they can get response time down from 4ms to 2.5ms (or better) to match Sony then I think that's a game over for Sony and Epson. What other objective metric does Sony or Epson hold over JVC? I've seen a couple guys mention that Sony has "video processing prowess" over the competition, but I call complete and utter BS on that one. All one needs to do is call up some test patterns on the Sony's to show what I mean. Some people talk as if Reality Creation is some kind of revelation. Kris Deering will agree with me that RC has some very strange artifacts that are CLEARLY evident when looking at test patterns. You might say "I don't watch test patterns" and while that may be true, how else can we objectively see what Sony's projectors are doing? The odd thing is that test patterns look worse with RC off. The sweet spot is RC on, but with all the settings set to zero. You also need to go into the service menu and make several tweaks to get rid of some of the other oddities like pink/green banding that the semi-non-defeatable subpixel convergence software creates. Then we have still issues with banding when fed 10bit 60p source material that still needs to be verified as fixed with the new models. Yes...video processing prowess indeed.

I know I sound like a broken record here, but Sony irks me to no end. JVC fixes issues on a yearly basis while Sony seems to treat these projectors with no pride whatsoever as if they're simply a tool to make money. It's clear to me that JVC actually cares about how the projectors they make perform whereas with Sony I get the impression the formula is how can we make a product that will sell while putting in the least that we can. So in otherwords, a product with some market appeal that performs about as good as the competition or worse off knowing people will still buy it because it has the Sony name despite some of the deficiencies. This and the fact that they still haven't corrected issues going back to 2011 with their 4K lineup is why I give Sony such a hard time.

[ARROW-AV]

Here you go folks:

Both product information sheets attached 

[ARROW-AV]

I found the video from my UB900 to look a tad better than the Oppo, to be honest. I'd be interested to see HD upscaled  by a UB900 or UB820. I'll bet it looks great. Let the player upscale to 4K and then see what happens. We need to check the output source at Cedia.

I agree. Panasonic's upscaler is superior as compared with OPPO's   

[ARROW-AV]

UPDATE:

Good news folks. The rumour of mosquito video noise afflicting the new JVC projectors with respect to native 4K content has been definitively debunked as being false. There is absolutely ZERO video noise with native 4K content.

The video noise appears to manifest exclusively when HD1080p content is inputted to and upscaled to 4K/8K resolution by the projector. It is not recommended to have the projector upscale HD to 4K anyway but to do this prior in the video chain and to input all content to the projector as native 4K.

When HD1080p content is upscaled to native 4K and then fed to the projector at native 4K resolution there is absolutely zero video noise.

Furthermore, when the 8K eShift with the NX9 is turned on there is absolutely zero increase in video noise as compared with when eShift is turned off.

Thought you might like to know this in case you heard the rumour 

[stridsvognen]

I agree. Panasonic's upscaler is superior as compared with OPPO's   

Do you have a opinion about the Xbox One S upscaling in comparison to the Panasonic UB900 ?

[AVSMike]

I agree. Panasonic's upscaler is superior as compared with OPPO's   

That is good to hear, because once I 100% confirm the new JVC's can do vertical stretch with 4K 60P source, I will probably sell my Oppo.

[Dylan Seeger]

Mike, if I remember correctly, you're using an anamorphic lens out of necessity due to room size/throw constraints?