JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

[AVSCraig]

I'm betting that there won't be any new projectors this year under $35K that will make me want to replace my RS4500, especially now that I have the Lumagen radiance Pro and Panamorph Paladin DCR lens.

[Baseball0618]

I'm betting that there won't be any new projectors this year under $35K that will make me want to replace my RS4500, especially now that I have the Lumagen radiance Pro and Panamorph Paladin DCR lens.

I am almost certain of this.  With the advent of micro LED I am not sure how much R & D monies are being invested into front projection? 

[AVSCraig]

I am almost certain of this.  With the advent of micro LED I am not sure how much R & D monies are being invested into front projection?

Front projection is used commercially in many applications where Micro LED might not work well. Also, I'd want the higher resolution " The Wall Luxury " version. I wouldn't want the 1080p equivalent at this point. If the 4 wide x 4 high 1.78:1 version is currently $350,000, the 5 wide x 4 high 2.22:1 version I'd want ( 13' 3" x 5' 11" ) would be what - $ 437,500 ? How long will that take to come down to " affordable " ? I'm not going to hold my breath - could be 15 years. 

[AVSMike]

I am almost certain of this.  With the advent of micro LED I am not sure how much R & D monies are being invested into front projection?

Will be several years before microLED threatens the under 30k projector market.

[AVSCraig]

Will be several years before microLED threatens the under 30k projector market.

And that's assuming that there aren't unknown technical problems. What if the individual modules age differently in regards to light output etc. ? Lots of questions.

[Baseball0618]

Will be several years before microLED threatens the under 30k projector market.

I agree, but that was not my point.  My point is I do not see R&D budgets for front projection getting larger, rather the opposite.  I don't think the technologies for residential home cinema are going to change very much from what they revolve around now.  I am pretty sure we will see the laser offerings increase slightly but that is about it.   I can see in a another year at CEDIA 2019 Sony releasing the first 8k projector and marketing the hell out of that as they did when they were first into the 4K market.

[AVSCraig]

I agree, but that was not my point.  My point is I do not see R&D budgets for front projection getting larger, rather the opposite.  I don't think the technologies for residential home cinema are going to change very much from what they revolve around now.  I am pretty sure we will see the laser offerings increase slightly but that is about it.   I can see in a another year at CEDIA 2019 Sony releasing the first 8k projector and marketing the hell out of that as they did when they were first into the 4K market.

I'll bet there will be more and better 4K projectors over the next 5 years - the their roll out will be as slow as the slow march from 480 - 720 - 1080p - 4K was - that took 16 years to today, from my first projector. 1080p still is a standard most people use - I watched a Blu-ray last night in fact ( " Dope  " - good film ). JVC may have an 8K eshift projector this year. It may seem like there is no R & D budget, but it's just that things move slowly.

[Baseball0618]

Saw this post by Kris over at the mad house today and thought I'd share it here as it really is a badge for the RS4500 being such a great projector as we all know.  I am sure he won't mind sharing it here and it's a response to someone in a comparison thread for the Sony 885:

"The same way you do for any other projector. But of course now we hear that doesn't apply to this projector because it is "special"?  Please. You apply the same standards to this as you do any other Sony, JVC, Epson, or whatever. There is no special way to dim this projector compared to others, but the only way to dim it is to turn the laser down, which also lowers contrast.

People on here seem to think that some kind of magic or vudu applies to this projector that doesn't apply to others. And that the magic of Reality Creation fixes all. It doesn't. It is a crutch that should NOT be needed. The JVC 4500 doesn't have any processing that matches it BECAUSE IT DOESN'T NEED IT. The two images when compared objectively aren't even close, RC or not. With all the of the "enhancements" bypassed on the 4500 it delivers reference level results with all the tests you throw at it. Pristine results with uniformity, single pixel patterns, all of it. I just did this all a week ago with the head of Lumagen and Dave Abrahms, who used to work extensively with Joe Kane and is one of the top calibrators working in Hollywood today. They all saw the exact same thing and couldn't believe how much of a difference the two were with testing. Dave was EXTREMELY skeptical about both projectors going in and left saying that the 4500 produced the best image he'd seen from a digital projector short of the Dolby projector used in Dolby Cinema. Dave and I spent well over an hour pouring through Sony software and the menus trying to undo all the issues we were seeing, just in case there was some stone left unturned, because Dave was so surprised at all the problems we were seeing.

Everyone agrees that the 885ES throws a great image. It absolutely DESTROYED the $20K DPI projector I also worked on while down in LA. But some here are literally making it out like some mystical unicorn and completely ignore just about every objective test thrown at it and they try and make out those that have actually measured MULTIPLE units and came to the same conclusion as some kind of mob that is out to destroy it. It is some of the most vial bias I've ever seen. I'm thrilled that so many are happy with this projector, it is in the top ranks for sure. But that doesn't mean that you have to vehemently attack any truths about its objective performance and limitations. If they are not addressed Sony has no incentive to fix them and potential buyers are misinformed about issues that they may be sensitive to."

I went to my local AMC cinema last week for the first time in almost two years and I was so surprised at how much better the image is in my home cinema w/ an RS4500.  The image in the theater was so washed out and dim that I had a hard time trying to enjoy the film with my kids.

[Madfloyd]

Saw this post by Kris over at the mad house today and thought I'd share it here as it really is a badge for the RS4500 being such a great projector as we all know.  I am sure he won't mind sharing it here and it's a response to someone in a comparison thread for the Sony 885:

"The same way you do for any other projector. But of course now we hear that doesn't apply to this projector because it is "special"?  Please. You apply the same standards to this as you do any other Sony, JVC, Epson, or whatever. There is no special way to dim this projector compared to others, but the only way to dim it is to turn the laser down, which also lowers contrast.

People on here seem to think that some kind of magic or vudu applies to this projector that doesn't apply to others. And that the magic of Reality Creation fixes all. It doesn't. It is a crutch that should NOT be needed. The JVC 4500 doesn't have any processing that matches it BECAUSE IT DOESN'T NEED IT. The two images when compared objectively aren't even close, RC or not. With all the of the "enhancements" bypassed on the 4500 it delivers reference level results with all the tests you throw at it. Pristine results with uniformity, single pixel patterns, all of it. I just did this all a week ago with the head of Lumagen and Dave Abrahms, who used to work extensively with Joe Kane and is one of the top calibrators working in Hollywood today. They all saw the exact same thing and couldn't believe how much of a difference the two were with testing. Dave was EXTREMELY skeptical about both projectors going in and left saying that the 4500 produced the best image he'd seen from a digital projector short of the Dolby projector used in Dolby Cinema. Dave and I spent well over an hour pouring through Sony software and the menus trying to undo all the issues we were seeing, just in case there was some stone left unturned, because Dave was so surprised at all the problems we were seeing.

Everyone agrees that the 885ES throws a great image. It absolutely DESTROYED the $20K DPI projector I also worked on while down in LA. But some here are literally making it out like some mystical unicorn and completely ignore just about every objective test thrown at it and they try and make out those that have actually measured MULTIPLE units and came to the same conclusion as some kind of mob that is out to destroy it. It is some of the most vial bias I've ever seen. I'm thrilled that so many are happy with this projector, it is in the top ranks for sure. But that doesn't mean that you have to vehemently attack any truths about its objective performance and limitations. If they are not addressed Sony has no incentive to fix them and potential buyers are misinformed about issues that they may be sensitive to."

I went to my local AMC cinema last week for the first time in almost two years and I was so surprised at how much better the image is in my home cinema w/ an RS4500.  The image in the theater was so washed out and dim that I had a hard time trying to enjoy the film with my kids.

What is the mad house?  AVSForum?

I went to see Annihlation some months ago in my local theater, which has very nice (reserve your seat) chairs and a decent size screen but was very disappointed in the picture quality.  It was as you described - washed out and dim.

I was then dragged back to see the latest Ant-man film.  I wanted to wait for UHD for picture quality reasons but this time I was completely blown away by the image.  It was sharp, bright with fantastic contrast and detail.   It's the first time I've seen something that rivaled my 4500 let alone blow it away.  They must have upgraded to something nice...

[AVSCraig]

What is the mad house?  AVSForum?

I went to see Annihlation some months ago in my local theater, which has very nice (reserve your seat) chairs and a decent size screen but was very disappointed in the picture quality.  It was as you described - washed out and dim.

I was then dragged back to see the latest Ant-man film.  I wanted to wait for UHD for picture quality reasons but this time I was completely blown away by the image.  It was sharp, bright with fantastic contrast and detail.   It's the first time I've seen something that rivaled my 4500 let alone blow it away.  They must have upgraded to something nice...

Yes, that's the " mad house " ! I have friends that pass on going to see a movie in a commercial theater with friends. They'd rather watch it at my house. They say the picture and sound is better at my house !

[AVSCraig]

They are also the friends that lobbied hard for me to keep the Panamorph DCR lens !

[AVSMike]

Wife and I went to watch Equalizer 2 last night at the local theater. Image and sound was not bad, except for one very glaring problem that drove me crazy. There was an exit door on the side wall, very close to the screen. The bright red exit sign bathed the left side of the image with a red glow and washed out darker scenes. I waited until the movie was over to point it out to my wife, so as not to ruin it for her. I was correct, my wife did not even notice it.

[DLCPhoto]

I waited until the movie was over to point it out to my wife, so as not to ruin it for her. I was correct, my wife did not even notice it.

I find the exact same thing, and it intrigues me.  We brought some of our grandkids to one of those huge Imax screens, at a science museum, which the subject being flying dinosaurs.  It was quite immersive because of the immense screen size, but the picture quality was incredibly poor: like VHS level poor!

I asked my wife about it later, and she hadn't noticed anything either!

[AVSCraig]

Wife and I went to watch Equalizer 2 last night at the local theater. Image and sound was not bad, except for one very glaring problem that drove me crazy. There was an exit door on the side wall, very close to the screen. The bright red exit sign bathed the left side of the image with a red glow and washed out darker scenes. I waited until the movie was over to point it out to my wife, so as not to ruin it for her. I was correct, my wife did not even notice it.

You actually still go to a commercial movie theater - how quaint ! I'll wait for the 4K Blu-ray - it's already in my Amazon wish list.

[DLCPhoto]

You actually still go to a commercial movie theater - how quaint ! I'll wait for the 4K Blu-ray - it's already in my Amazon wish list.

In general, that's what I do as well.  What I save in going to the theater will generally pay for most of the Blu-ray purchase.

I did find out, though, that the only Dolby Cinema in North Carolina is only a half hour from me.  I've gone there a couple of times (Black Panther was one), just out of curiosity.

The picture quality was pretty good, and they had proper light control to facilitate black levels.  To be honest, though, I still think my lowly RS400 provided better sharpness, and as good or better visual impact overall.

The audio was also decent, but I still prefer my home theater.