JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

[AVSMike]

For those interested , some results of the Oppo 203 and Panasonic UB900 and the Z1/RS4500

I have had the Oppo 203 since its initial release, i wasnt happy with its performance image wise so purchased the UB900 . I still retained the Oppo 203 and try it from time to time with newer firmware as updates are released. I always end up still preferring the UB900 image wise.

With the advent of the new HDR mapping that Oppo has implemented, i got all excited again. In preparation of getting the new firmware (which is still not available here in Aus) , i decided to check settings on the Oppo and set up a profile on my Z1/RS4500 .

I have been spending a large amount of time recently watching the Series "Game of Thrones" which are some of the BEST quality Blu Ray,s i have seen.

Decided to do a comparo against the UB900 on these disc,s.

Once again the difference in image quality...Detail/Sharpness/ Colour is still "substantially" better on the UB900...its not subtle!

Game of thrones....Season 6 first disc chapter 4......starts off with the Tyrian and Varys walking down the Castle walkway...In the background on the tallest stone tower there are many "white" rocks in the stonework.....the UB900 renders these with clarity and detail. The Oppo 203 "Smears" them to the point of not being recognisable at all!

Various scenes along this chapter have stone walls and brickwork of the castle in view, also paver,s on the walkway.... the UB900 again renders these with far greater detail and sharpness.......

I "was" keen to try the new HDR "Tone Mapping" , but now not so!! Even if the Tone Mapping is successful i am not sure i would like to sacrifice the substantial increase of Detail and sharpness that the UB900 provides over the Oppo 203.

Even though the above comparison used HD Blu Ray, i know the results of UHD will yield similar results as they have always done..

So IMO, the UB900 is still the "top Dog" if you seek outright image quality..

The UB900 paired with the Z1/RS4500 makes for one hell of an image..

You are referring to the upscaling. It is the tone mapping of 4K, that needs to be looked at. As for the upscaling, you can also let the 4500 do the upscaling, if using an Oppo.

[AVSCraig]

For those interested , some results of the Oppo 203 and Panasonic UB900 and the Z1/RS4500

I have had the Oppo 203 since its initial release, i wasnt happy with its performance image wise so purchased the UB900 . I still retained the Oppo 203 and try it from time to time with newer firmware as updates are released. I always end up still preferring the UB900 image wise.

With the advent of the new HDR mapping that Oppo has implemented, i got all excited again. In preparation of getting the new firmware (which is still not available here in Aus) , i decided to check settings on the Oppo and set up a profile on my Z1/RS4500 .

I have been spending a large amount of time recently watching the Series "Game of Thrones" which are some of the BEST quality Blu Ray,s i have seen.

Decided to do a comparo against the UB900 on these disc,s.

Once again the difference in image quality...Detail/Sharpness/ Colour is still "substantially" better on the UB900...its not subtle!

Game of thrones....Season 6 first disc chapter 4......starts off with the Tyrian and Varys walking down the Castle walkway...In the background on the tallest stone tower there are many "white" rocks in the stonework.....the UB900 renders these with clarity and detail. The Oppo 203 "Smears" them to the point of not being recognisable at all!

Various scenes along this chapter have stone walls and brickwork of the castle in view, also paver,s on the walkway.... the UB900 again renders these with far greater detail and sharpness.......

I "was" keen to try the new HDR "Tone Mapping" , but now not so!! Even if the Tone Mapping is successful i am not sure i would like to sacrifice the substantial increase of Detail and sharpness that the UB900 provides over the Oppo 203.

Even though the above comparison used HD Blu Ray, i know the results of UHD will yield similar results as they have always done..

So IMO, the UB900 is still the "top Dog" if you seek outright image quality..

The UB900 paired with the Z1/RS4500 makes for one hell of an image..

Are you using " source direct " on the Oppo ? Still thinking about picking up a 203, but people keep throwing cold water on the idea!

[woofer]

No, Not using "source Direct" on the Oppo...  and yes it is basically a comparison on the up scaling of the 203 vs the UB900.

On ALL previous occasions when i have compared the Oppo 203 and UB900 with 4K UHD,s the results is the same..... a "cleaner" more detailed image from the UB900...i DONT expect this to change.

What i was getting at is....even if the Tone Mapping proves to be a winner, i dont know if i like the idea of sacrificing image  cleanness and detail for the "maybe" benefits of the tone mapping curves.. 

[woofer]

Craig, tonight i will try the "Source Direct" option on the Oppo 203 and let the Z1/RS4500 do the up-scaling...i havnt actually done this , so will be interesting..

How have others found the up-scaling of the Z1/RS4500 compared to either the UB900 or the Oppo 203 ?

[AVSCraig]

Craig, tonight i will try the "Source Direct" option on the Oppo 203 and let the Z1/RS4500 do the up-scaling...i havnt actually done this , so will be interesting..

How have others found the up-scaling of the Z1/RS4500 compared to either the UB900 or the Oppo 203 ?

Yes. I believe Kris preferred to let the RS4500 do the upscaling. When I had my Oppo 103 I did that, but it's pretty hard to fault the UB900's upscaling. I don't think I had the 103 and UB900 at the same time to compare - I had the 103 and that damn Samsung 4K BR player - and that was a piece of junk ! 

[Kris Deering]

No, Not using "source Direct" on the Oppo...  and yes it is basically a comparison on the up scaling of the 203 vs the UB900.

On ALL previous occasions when i have compared the Oppo 203 and UB900 with 4K UHD,s the results is the same..... a "cleaner" more detailed image from the UB900...i DONT expect this to change.

What i was getting at is....even if the Tone Mapping proves to be a winner, i dont know if i like the idea of sacrificing image  cleanness and detail for the "maybe" benefits of the tone mapping curves.. 

Your logic makes no sense here. You are saying the scaling on the Panny is superior to the Oppo, BUT with HDR content, the content is ALREADY 4K, so no scaling is employed. So your tests have ZERO bearing on what you are dismissing.

[AVSMike]

Your logic makes no sense here. You are saying the scaling on the Panny is superior to the Oppo, BUT with HDR content, the content is ALREADY 4K, so no scaling is employed. So your tests have ZERO bearing on what you are dismissing.

I think he is saying he is not willing to give up the upscaling of 1080p by the Panny just to get the improved HDR tone mapping of the Oppo. From what I saw that Vincent demonstrated, I think everyone would be hard pressed to see the difference in upscaling between the Oppo and the Panny. I will say, the tone mapping of the Oppo is very good. I am quite pleased with the image from the 640 with the oppo doing the tone mapping.

Added
I think he really should try the Oppo tone mapping, it is very good.

[AVSCraig]

At this point I might as well wait and see what the Panasonic UB820 brings to the HDR tone mapping party.

[AVSCraig]

Passed a year of owning the RS4500 now, and I have to say it's the best projector by far that I've ever owned ! The firmware updates have really improved the picture. I'm looking forward to watching a lot of 4K Blu-rays this week, including a John Wick double feature with a bottle of Blanton's Sat. night ( same whiskey John Wick drinks in the films ) ! Here's to year 2 !

[AVSMike]

At this point I might as well wait and see what the Panasonic UB820 brings to the HDR tone mapping party.

It the tone mapping on the 820 is working to the same 100 nits as the 800, it will be behind the Oppo.

[AVSCraig]

It the tone mapping on the 820 is working to the same 100 nits as the 800, it will be behind the Oppo.

Don't know - need to see a full review. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2018/01/06/panasonic-unveils-new-4k-blu-ray-players-including-world-first-dolby-vision-and-hdr10-support/#3c1daae46808

[woofer]

Your logic makes no sense here. You are saying the scaling on the Panny is superior to the Oppo, BUT with HDR content, the content is ALREADY 4K, so no scaling is employed. So your tests have ZERO bearing on what you are dismissing.

Kris,

I was "trying" to say that the UB900 does scale HD BluRay image better than the 203, BUT as in the past the UB900 also does  a better job with rendering "Native" 4K UHD .

So i am trying to decide even if the HDR Tone mapping is excellent on the 203 , will it be enough to offset the discrepancy i see in the image ( detail/Sharpness)  compared to the UB900.

I usually use a HTPC for HD Bluray Playback, but just thought i would once again compare the Oppo to the UB900 .

I find the UB900 to produce a sharper more detailed image than the 203 on "BOTH" HD Bluray and 4K UHD BluRay..

[Baseball0618]

Kris,

I was "trying" to say that the UB900 does scale HD BluRay image better than the 203, BUT as in the past the UB900 also does  a better job with rendering "Native" 4K UHD .

So i am trying to decide even if the HDR Tone mapping is excellent on the 203 , will it be enough to offset the discrepancy i see in the image ( detail/Sharpness)  compared to the UB900.

I usually use a HTPC for HD Bluray Playback, but just thought i would once again compare the Oppo to the UB900 .

I find the UB900 to produce a sharper more detailed image than the 203 on "BOTH" HD Bluray and 4K UHD BluRay..

The difference between the UB900 to the Oppo 203 as I have them both as well lies in the Panny's "Precision Chroma sampling".  It is more notable w/ projectors than w/ flat panel displays but the Panny renders a touch better shadow detail and slightly better color saturation IMO.  However, I am curious to see how the Oppo's new tone mapping functions work w/ UHD material b/c, for me, it could tilt me back towards the Oppo for my RS4500.  Right now for my setup it's perfect b/c I get to utilize the DV function of the Oppo on my OLED and the Panny strictly with my PJ, which is where it outshines the Oppo, at least to me.   Again though how good is the tone mapping w/ the Oppo and if I buy a Lumagen Pro then none of it matters ;0

[bmoney]

watched The Mummy (2017) last night using the oppo mode 2 HDR off (st2020) luminance target 400 nits....and the picture was outstanding!  in dark scenes you could clearly see Tom C. shirt was navy blue an see all the details in the folds of the shirt.

i am now using the oppo 100% of the time...any fiddling is super easy as i can switch the target luminance if needed by the iphone app.

one issue I noticed (only because this is the first movie I have watched with the DI enabled) was towars the end...Jenny was in Bright light and Tom was in a shadow....when it switched from her o him...there was a pulsing of the picture (im sure it was the iris trying to catch up)  was very annoying.

[Baseball0618]

watched The Mummy (2017) last night using the oppo mode 2 HDR off (st2020) luminance target 400 nits....and the picture was outstanding!  in dark scenes you could clearly see Tom C. shirt was navy blue an see all the details in the folds of the shirt.

i am now using the oppo 100% of the time...any fiddling is super easy as i can switch the target luminance if needed by the iphone app.

one issue I noticed (only because this is the first movie I have watched with the DI enabled) was towars the end...Jenny was in Bright light and Tom was in a shadow....when it switched from her o him...there was a pulsing of the picture (im sure it was the iris trying to catch up)  was very annoying.

Thanks for the feedback.. I need to experiment myself.  Have you had your unit calibrated? If so are you using a setting that implements a curve generated via the Arve tool in conjunction with the Oppo tone mapping?