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JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1095 on: December 23, 2017, 01:23:06 AM »
Wow - with the custom gamma curves and mode 2 dimming on, 4K can now do complete fade to black scenes that totally black out the screen. Watched " Patriot Day " on 4K Blu-ray tonight with friends. Looked better than ever, and had quite a few blackout scenes. You do pay for it with somewhat overly aggressive dimming of titles at the end of the movie, but I'll live with the trade off. Mode 1 is less aggressive, but no absolute fade to black ( still a little light on the screen ).

Javs

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1096 on: December 23, 2017, 02:41:28 AM »
Do you want me to email his calibration notes ? I can.

Thanks, just flicked you a message.
JVC X9500 (RS620) | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Emotiva 5175 | Rotel RMB-1555B | iNuke 3000DSP | Javelin Audio 7.4.2 System

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1097 on: December 23, 2017, 10:58:20 AM »
Thanks, just flicked you a message.

I didn't get it apparently.

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1098 on: December 23, 2017, 08:54:30 PM »
Wow - with the custom gamma curves and mode 2 dimming on, 4K can now do complete fade to black scenes that totally black out the screen. Watched " Patriot Day " on 4K Blu-ray tonight with friends. Looked better than ever, and had quite a few blackout scenes. You do pay for it with somewhat overly aggressive dimming of titles at the end of the movie, but I'll live with the trade off. Mode 1 is less aggressive, but no absolute fade to black ( still a little light on the screen ).

This is why I think there is something different with your projector than mine. With Auto 2 it could ALWAYS do this with my projector.
Technical Editor/Writer
Sound and Vision

Pro Calibration, Consulting and Education: www.deepdiveav.com

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1099 on: December 23, 2017, 08:58:37 PM »
Can you share one of the curves he installed? I would love to know the parameters, there is only a finite amount of paramaters one can use in the Arve tool once you know what you are doing as to not push things too far, I wager that his curves are extremely close to the ones I am using.

I found Manni's curves too dark despite him accusing me of 'poorly designing' mine because, and this is funny, I left brightness on the table. Clearly he didn't actually look at them since mine are brighter than his :)

I sent an email to Chad asking for his values but I didn't get any response. Not sure if a calibrator would want to share that kind of stuff. I really liked the Arve tool but when comparing the results directly against the newest version of the Lumagen Intensity Mapping and my OLED (C7), I could never get the low end detail that would show up with the OLED and the C7. And I feel that is just as important for HDR as the highlights on the upper end. Ultimately HDR is hard because it is so subjective without standards, but using my OLED and Dolby Vision HDR and their tone mapping as a reference, I feel like I've gotten as close as one would need to emulate that level of tone mapping (the C7 has constantly been awarded the best HDR display on the market).
Technical Editor/Writer
Sound and Vision

Pro Calibration, Consulting and Education: www.deepdiveav.com

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1100 on: December 23, 2017, 09:41:49 PM »
I sent an email to Chad asking for his values but I didn't get any response. Not sure if a calibrator would want to share that kind of stuff. I really liked the Arve tool but when comparing the results directly against the newest version of the Lumagen Intensity Mapping and my OLED (C7), I could never get the low end detail that would show up with the OLED and the C7. And I feel that is just as important for HDR as the highlights on the upper end. Ultimately HDR is hard because it is so subjective without standards, but using my OLED and Dolby Vision HDR and their tone mapping as a reference, I feel like I've gotten as close as one would need to emulate that level of tone mapping (the C7 has constantly been awarded the best HDR display on the market).

Damn, you're going to tempt me to buy the Lumagen yet !

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1101 on: December 23, 2017, 09:44:15 PM »
This is why I think there is something different with your projector than mine. With Auto 2 it could ALWAYS do this with my projector.

Even with 4K Blu-rays ? Must be calibration and set up differences. Mine has always been able to to FTB with 1080p material though. Just not completely shut off with 4K HDR. Until now.

Javs

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1102 on: December 24, 2017, 01:25:16 AM »
Even with 4K Blu-rays ? Must be calibration and set up differences. Mine has always been able to to FTB with 1080p material though. Just not completely shut off with 4K HDR. Until now.

You may have been incorrectly setting black levels on the UHD content to 0 nits, whereas 50% of titles are 0.005 nits for black, so the JVC was seeing very slight black floor raise, and thus not fading correctly.

I could be wrong but that would be one for sure reason why it wouldn't do it.

So far its definitely been found pretty safe to clip to 0.005 and I am sure Chad would be doing this too.
JVC X9500 (RS620) | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Emotiva 5175 | Rotel RMB-1555B | iNuke 3000DSP | Javelin Audio 7.4.2 System

woofer

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1103 on: December 24, 2017, 01:31:20 AM »
This is why I think there is something different with your projector than mine. With Auto 2 it could ALWAYS do this with my projector.

Same here......Mode 2 has always produced a 100% fade to black on UHD,s for me..

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1104 on: December 24, 2017, 01:47:58 AM »
You may have been incorrectly setting black levels on the UHD content to 0 nits, whereas 50% of titles are 0.005 nits for black, so the JVC was seeing very slight black floor raise, and thus not fading correctly.

I could be wrong but that would be one for sure reason why it wouldn't do it.

So far its definitely been found pretty safe to clip to 0.005 and I am sure Chad would be doing this too.

Well it's working now ! Man, Dunkirk was like looking at them through a window tonight ! Used the 122" diagonal 1.78;1 Cima Neve, and I'm glad I did. Seems like 60 - 70% of the movie is 16:9. Great movie !

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1105 on: December 24, 2017, 02:26:21 AM »
Well it's working now ! Man, Dunkirk was like looking at them through a window tonight ! Used the 122" diagonal 1.78;1 Cima Neve, and I'm glad I did. Seems like 60 - 70% of the movie is 16:9. Great movie !

I missed this one in theaters. I was on vacation in Europe for two weeks when it came out and never had the time to see it. I'm waiting for my copy to arrive. I can't wait to experience it, though I'll be slumming it with an eshift projector.  ;D
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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1106 on: December 24, 2017, 07:29:24 AM »
Well it's working now ! Man, Dunkirk was like looking at them through a window tonight ! Used the 122" diagonal 1.78;1 Cima Neve, and I'm glad I did. Seems like 60 - 70% of the movie is 16:9. Great movie !

I have to do what you're doing - have a second screen so that I can have a bigger 1.78:1 image and that Cima Neve looks to be the one to get.  I might not even watch Dunkirk until I get this (I did see it in theaters).  Do you drop your second screen down immediately in front of your scope screen or is it closer to the seating position.  Can you share a photo of your setup?
JVC-RS4500 4k projector, Lumagen Pro, ST130 138" scope screen,
Panasonic DMP-UB900 & Plex Media Server
Classe SSP-800, Bryston amplification, Wilson Audio speakers (7.2) + Buttkickers.

Tom Bley

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1107 on: December 24, 2017, 09:28:06 AM »
Well it's working now ! Man, Dunkirk was like looking at them through a window tonight ! Used the 122" diagonal 1.78;1 Cima Neve, and I'm glad I did. Seems like 60 - 70% of the movie is 16:9. Great movie !

Would be excellent to see some of your screen shots with this title.  8)

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1108 on: December 24, 2017, 11:03:20 AM »
You may have been incorrectly setting black levels on the UHD content to 0 nits, whereas 50% of titles are 0.005 nits for black, so the JVC was seeing very slight black floor raise, and thus not fading correctly.

I could be wrong but that would be one for sure reason why it wouldn't do it.

So far its definitely been found pretty safe to clip to 0.005 and I am sure Chad would be doing this too.

I don't set black for .005. The only titles I've seen where they are actually raised are a couple of Universal titles (Lucy is a great example). Just because the mastering monitor used is .005 doesn't mean the black level of the title is encoded there. It is the same as saying all titles mastered on a 1000 nit monitor have peak levels at 1000 nits. Honestly, the monitor capabilities have very little value for the end user, and I honestly think they shouldn't be reported as it just causes confusion. MaxCLL is far more valuable since this is the peak value on the disc, but even that could just be a single pixel at one point thru the movie.
Technical Editor/Writer
Sound and Vision

Pro Calibration, Consulting and Education: www.deepdiveav.com

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #1109 on: December 24, 2017, 11:12:08 AM »
Kris, are you now using the 2020 profile in the 4500 in concert with the Lumagen?
JVC-RS4500 4k projector, Lumagen Pro, ST130 138" scope screen,
Panasonic DMP-UB900 & Plex Media Server
Classe SSP-800, Bryston amplification, Wilson Audio speakers (7.2) + Buttkickers.

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