Banned at AVSForum

[Dylan Seeger]

The proper way to brightness match is in an A/B is by shelf mounting the brighter projector higher up until it reaches the same lumens off an HP screen, because the HP screen causes extreme gain loss moving it up or left/right.

That's how I always did it in the past when I used to compare projectors ages ago. Haven't done a comparison in a long time, because not enough has changed for me to really care.

I already know the RS-4500 would be the winner for me, but I don't have that kind of budget. Per the Sony's, they are ruled out for me due to various reasons, as I think they are overpriced for what you get.

Now if they came way way down in price, I might consider one, but I'd likely just stick with a newer JVC.

I'm still going to wait for the 4k stuff to iron out before I get an upgrade, the last 2 upgrades I did were kind of mistimed, not that you can really time anything anyways...

I still have my HP screen laying around. I've upgraded to a 10 foot  2.35:1 unity gain EluneVision Rerferemce 4K screen. I can't say enough good about this screen. It's the closest thing to Studiotek 100 material you're going to find at about 1/3 the cost. After using such a high quality screen material and seeing what it can do for image quality (hownlittle is affects the projected image) it's hard to go back, especially when I'm getting over 1700 lumens from my JVC.

[coderguy]

That's the same screen I've been recommending to others in the forum, well that one and the Purebright if they can find it. Elunevision makes good screens, but even they can be kind of pricey sometimes, though I never tried a direct dealer to see what kind of price they could do...

[Dylan Seeger]

If people can afford a studiotek100 screen, go for it. But if you're on a budget and want a reference viewing experience, it's hard to pass up EluneVision's reference 4K material.  It gets you 99% of the way to Studiotek 100.

I also have a Carada unity gain screen that I bought before the EluneVision. It's good for the price but there is a slight sheen to it and it's not opaque. I ended up buying 6 cans of plastidip spray paint to coat the back of the Carada screen with. Without it, even with black velvet material behind the screen to soak up light,  enough light would scatter onto the back of the screen material and wash out the image. The plastidip fixed the light scatter issue as it turned the screen opaque. I ultimately decided that I didn't like the sheen and bought the EluneVision screen. Huge upgrade overall.

[ericglo]

Yeah I just don't get the idea behind leaving both DI's off for a shootout.

Thats like testing a Porsche or Ferrari which has launch control, but not using it at all.

One of the greatest things about the JVC, DI multipliers that embarrass the competition, but not used here.

If the DI on my JVC broke I would sell it. I cant live without it, and I already have 90k:1 native at the iris position I use, HDR wide open would be even worse with no DI.

IIRC Gregg doesn't like DIs or at least he used to not.

[Peter Parker]

I see some people say that they will automatically disable a DI even before they have seen the projector. I think it must have something to do with the early days when they were visibly bad, but after Sony came out with a good usable one some years ago, I think people should at least give it a go to see how good or bad it is before just dismissing it.

[Dylan Seeger]

What I've noticed with DIs on Sony and JVC projectors is that JVCs implementation is more visible with higher APL content and Sony's is more visible with lower APL content. I've seen many times the Sony's pump with darker content and JVCs tend to flicker a bit on occasion with mid/brighter APL content.  Neither are perfect but both work very well overall. I'd say most DLP DIs suck. There are a few exceptions but gamma shifts on DLP projectors (usually creating clipped whites) are often a problem on DLP units with dynamic contrast. 

[Javs]

Yes it should be and I really stopped following the brightness discussions but I know that it seemed like a few of us had lower samples than previous models.

My X9500 with a new lamp, and a known accurate light meter has 1770 lumens in high bright mode. 1650 lumens fully calibrated D65 SDR mode, 1550 lumens in D65 HDR mode with the WCG filter in place. I get 37fl on my screen in high lamp HDR, and 30fl in low lamp HDR which is what I use.

We need to remember that the JVC's have a WCG filter which eats a little brightness, it is possible to set up an HDR mode without the filter, which would retain the full brightness of the lamp.

Unless the Sony is doing HDR fully calibrated at 1500 lumens, then its not quite as bright and most certainly not reproducing the same colour. My 9500 sample it seems is better than both the 9900's I have had here, but also not the highest I have seen around here. Seems like if I were to get a sample closer to 2000lm peak OOTB, then its not unreasonable to get 1700 lumens calibrated in HDR mode based on what my unit here has done.

[Dylan Seeger]

It's always interesting reading cine4home's "cine4home edition" reviews where they discuss how a group of the same projectors they received performs after calibration. They usually tell people the average lumen output and contrast performance one should expect. The JVCs and Sony's often fluctuate on unit to unit basis of ~10-15% plus or minus the average numbers they get. This explains RS6xx units doing over 1800 lumens like Zombie10k's and some of the lower number units out there as well. I would say an average performing JVC without the P3 filter in the light path should be doing around 1700 lumens in high lamp,.at max zoom and with the manual iris fully open.

[Baseball0618]

If people can afford a studiotek100 screen, go for it. But if you're on a budget and want a reference viewing experience, it's hard to pass up EluneVision's reference 4K material.  It gets you 99% of the way to Studiotek 100.

I also have a Carada unity gain screen that I bought before the EluneVision. It's good for the price but there is a slight sheen to it and it's not opaque. I ended up buying 6 cans of plastidip spray paint to coat the back of the Carada screen with. Without it, even with black velvet material behind the screen to soak up light,  enough light would scatter onto the back of the screen material and wash out the image. The plastidip fixed the light scatter issue as it turned the screen opaque. I ultimately decided that I didn't like the sheen and bought the EluneVision screen. Huge upgrade overall.

I have a ST130 and have been contemplating switching over to ST100 since I have gotten my RS4500, but I am not sure if there will be much of a noticeable improvement?  Most of my viewing is HDR so would it make sense to keep the added gain?  I do notice sparkle ever once in while and it's usually when my kids are watching animated films or a really bright scene.  Can I expect a marked improvement in image cleanliness bu switching to ST100 from ST130?

[AVSMike]

I see some people say that they will automatically disable a DI even before they have seen the projector. I think it must have something to do with the early days when they were visibly bad, but after Sony came out with a good usable one some years ago, I think people should at least give it a go to see how good or bad it is before just dismissing it.

A few years ago, when I bought an RS600, I fully planned to not use the DI. That was one of the reasons I went with the 600 over the 500, since I wanted as much native contrast as I could get. I was pleasantly surprised how well the DI performed and ended up using it.

[AVSMike]

I have a ST130 and have been contemplating switching over to ST100 since I have gotten my RS4500, but I am not sure if there will be much of a noticeable improvement?  Most of my viewing is HDR so would it make sense to keep the added gain?  I do notice sparkle ever once in while and it's usually when my kids are watching animated films or a really bright scene.  Can I expect a marked improvement in image cleanliness bu switching to ST100 from ST130?

ST100 clearly throws a better image, but you will be giving up brightness to get this better image. Do you have enough brightness with HDR to be able to give up the 30% increase the ST130 has over ST100?

[DLCPhoto]

A few years ago, when I bought an RS600, I fully planned to not use the DI. That was one of the reasons I went with the 600 over the 500, since I wanted as much native contrast as I could get. I was pleasantly surprised how well the DI performed and ended up using it.

On this:

I have the RS400, and found the DI bothersome, with 'iris pumping' quite distracting.  I tried it numerous times, but each time decided it created more problems than it solved.  Two questions related to this:

1.  Does the 'double iris' on the RS500/RS600 line perform significantly better in this regard than the single iris of the RS400?

2.  My aperture now, for the last 6 months or so, doesn't work.  I put it in manual mode, and when I try to adjust it, the numbers on the screen display show it shutting down, but the aperture itself doesn't change.  Is it possible that it was never working properly, even when new, and that is why it was more intrusive?

Thanks.

P.S. Because I have a large screen screen (160" diagonal scope), for HDR I have the aperture open anyway, and even with regular Blu-ray, having it wide open still works fine.  And given the hassle of taking it down, getting it repaired, being without the projector for a few weeks, I've been reluctant to get it fixed.

[Baseball0618]

ST100 clearly throws a better image, but you will be giving up brightness to get this better image. Do you have enough brightness with HDR to be able to give up the 30% increase the ST130 has over ST100?

I am afraid that if I go to ST100 I will have to run high laser, which I am not completely opposed to doing if the image improvement switching material is great enough.

[AVSCraig]

I am afraid that if I go to ST100 I will have to run high laser, which I am not completely opposed to doing if the image improvement switching material is great enough.

I find the image on the ST100 dull in comparison to the ST130. I'd want twice the brightness if I suddenly switched my screens to ST100.But that's the Catch 22 - if I watched at much higher lumens, I'd need to switch to a ST100 - the ST130 would show too many artifacts. As it is, at 18FL for HD material and 38 + / - for UHD 4K HDR material, I feel it's just right brightness wise on my current screens. And I very rarely see screen sheen / artifacts. But, I don't watch hockey !  Or any animated films.

[Dylan Seeger]

Seeing the sheen/sparkles on the ST130 is a matter of how bright you normally watch at. With my older High Power screen, you could make out texture when the content got bright. The Carada screen I could notice some sheen when the image got bright, but with the EluveVision I see nothing except when my projector is sending out. I don't think I can go back now. You'll get the same experience with the ST100. If that's something that appeals to you, then it might make sense to upgrade your screen. But this comes at a image brightness deficit. There are pro's and cons to both screens.