AVS Discussions

General => Home Theater Misc. => Topic started by: Andreas21 on April 07, 2017, 06:38:21 AM

Title: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on April 07, 2017, 06:38:21 AM
I did not know where to Post this so I posted it where I post the most in forums.

Lately there has been quite heavy discussions at AVSForum regarding the Sony degradation and lately the JVC not firmware upgrading the RSx00 line. This has resulted in heavy Sony Vs JVC discussions that are simply stupid. I personally have tried to keep it professional and scientific, but it has not been easy.

Today I got a lifetime ban on that forum and I see that the other members in the discussion that have been much more personal and insulting than me is still able to post.

I find that to be highly unfair and the mods are not treating members equally.

Do you guys agree with me?

I know some dont and are just happy to get rid of me, but I think when I was banned others should have been to.

If the mods find this tread unfit for this forum they can just delete it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on April 07, 2017, 08:36:02 AM
I did not know where to Post this so I posted it where I post the most in forums.

Lately there has been quite heavy discussions at AVSForum regarding the Sony degradation and lately the JVC not firmware upgrading the RSx00 line. This has resulted in heavy Sony Vs JVC discussions that are simply stupid. I personally have tried to keep it professional and scientific, but it has not been easy.

Today I got a lifetime ban on that forum and I see that the other members in the discussion that have been much more personal and insulting than me is still able to post.

I find that to be highly unfair and the mods are not treating members equally.

Do you guys agree with me?

I know some dont and are just happy to get rid of me, but I think when I was banned others should have been to.

If the mods find this tread unfit for this forum they can just delete it.

Welcome here Andreas. No, I don't think you should have been banned, but that other forum is giving me a headache lately anyway. So what can you say other than " good riddance " !
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on April 07, 2017, 09:11:30 AM
If anyone should have been banned there, I think you know who it should have been.  :-X
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on April 07, 2017, 11:13:43 AM
Sorry Andreas21. Welcome here. Would love to get you and Mani posting over here on this board.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Diddern on April 07, 2017, 01:01:02 PM
Not correct to Bann you Andreas.
This was not fair. 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on April 07, 2017, 01:18:19 PM
Thanks guys!

I am sure you know who is sitting at home laughing out loud.

But Il be back! 8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: HarperVision on April 07, 2017, 03:17:49 PM
I did not know where to Post this so I posted it where I post the most in forums.

Lately there has been quite heavy discussions at AVSForum regarding the Sony degradation and lately the JVC not firmware upgrading the RSx00 line. This has resulted in heavy Sony Vs JVC discussions that are simply stupid. I personally have tried to keep it professional and scientific, but it has not been easy.

Today I got a lifetime ban on that forum and I see that the other members in the discussion that have been much more personal and insulting than me is still able to post.

I find that to be highly unfair and the mods are not treating members equally.

Do you guys agree with me?

I know some dont and are just happy to get rid of me, but I think when I was banned others should have been to.

If the mods find this tread unfit for this forum they can just delete it.

Whoah, are you serious?  :o

I certainly do NOT think you should have been banned permanently there!  Sure, we have had our disagreements, but I think we are all coming from the same places if you know what I mean.  I think the reason that forum is dying is because it's too "PC" lately, like our world actually.  I think a good debate with some heated exchanges actually is GOOD in a way and sometimes really gets to the meat of the issue.  We had some knock down, drag outs on that forum years ago, but in the end we shared beers at CES/CEDIA, kissed and made up and I think we were all the better for it.

Please let me know if you need me to vouch for you over there to get you back, because I will.  Do you know if anyone else was banned from there due to those last few threads that went wild?  Good thing I am in HI and was sleeping while the fight went nuclear apparently, or else I may have also been caught up in it!  :-X

I don't think anyone really deserves a lifetime ban, unless they threaten real physical harm on someone.  We should all be "men" and be able to take some hits and get back up, dust ourselves off and get back in the "fight".  it builds character! ;)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on April 07, 2017, 03:33:25 PM
Whoah, are you serious?  :o

I certainly do NOT think you should have been banned permanently there!  Sure, we have had our disagreements, but I think we are all coming from the same places if you know what I mean.  I think the reason that forum is dying is because it's too "PC" lately, like our world actually.  I think a good debate with some heated exchanges actually is GOOD in a way and sometimes really gets to the meat of the issue.  We had some knock down, drag outs on that forum years ago, but in the end we shared beers at CES/CEDIA, kissed and made up and I think we were all the better for it.

Please let me know if you need me to vouch for you over there to get you back, because I will.  Do you know if anyone else was banned from there due to those last few threads that went wild?  Good thing I am in HI and was sleeping while the fight went nuclear apparently, or else I may have also been caught up in it!  :-X

I don't think anyone really deserves a lifetime ban, unless they threaten real physical harm on someone.  We should all be "men" and be able to take some hits and get back up, dust ourselves off and get back in the "fight".  it builds character! ;)

I must have missed something after 5pm my time too. Can't sit in front of a computer all day and night, no matter how entertaining.  :o
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on April 07, 2017, 03:47:18 PM
I must have missed something after 5pm my time too. Can't sit in front of a computer all day and night, no matter how entertaining.  :o

Nothing special happened, they closed a couple of treads and none of my posts was deleted, this was yesterday. I did not post anything after that other than answering a couple of questions in other treads, and when I tried to log in today I got the message I was banned and the ban will never be lifted.

So I actually have no idea why I was banned as I can not login to see the last infraction. Why I was the only one banned is also a mystery to me.



Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: HarperVision on April 07, 2017, 05:20:02 PM
Nothing special happened, they closed a couple of treads and none of my posts was deleted, this was yesterday. I did not post anything after that other than answering a couple of questions in other treads, and when I tried to log in today I got the message I was banned and the ban will never be lifted.

So I actually have no idea why I was banned as I can not login to see the last infraction. Why I was the only one banned is also a mystery to me.

Wow!  Sorry to hear that man!  :(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on April 08, 2017, 06:05:01 AM
welcome to the club.

I was infracted for calling MBM "ghetto blasters" while others were calling ME derogatory names...so I called the mod a loser on a power trip ...so they perma banned me...lol

such a joke
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on April 08, 2017, 06:59:14 AM
welcome to the club.

I was infracted for calling MBM "ghetto blasters" while others were calling ME derogatory names...so I called the mod a loser on a power trip ...so they perma banned me...lol

such a joke

And your ban is never lifted or did you get a 3 month ban?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on April 08, 2017, 07:10:57 AM
I just got a mail from AVS now and they told me there is no chance for my user to be reinstated. This just shows how badly the forum is driven and how bad the moderators are moderating.

I say thank you for the support and I will now stop posting in forums, but I will still use it to update my knowledge and keep up to date on calibration and projectors.

I want to say a special thank you to @roxiedog13, you really made my days in the forum fun and I learned a hole lot from you!

Bye! 8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stridsvognen on April 08, 2017, 12:31:39 PM
Its interesting you got banned as you have not been shy pointing fingers of others banned there, or done your best to get people banned on other forums, so guess its ok they ban people you dont like for whatever reason, but when it happens to you its kind of different.

I guess you had refractions piling up from the past, and you nailed the last one to get a permanent ban.

Anyways, welcome in the banned forever club. 8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on April 09, 2017, 05:41:08 AM
And your ban is never lifted or did you get a 3 month ban?

never lifted...not gonna lie...been a lot less aggravation not replying to the morons on that site
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on April 11, 2017, 07:22:16 AM
Didn't know you got banned until now!  What a bunch of BS.  I stayed out of the two threads on AVSForums, one of them was closed yesterday, thankfully.  I don't think those two persons are going to get JVC to change anything posting on a public forum.  Anyways, welcome over here where the grass always seems a little greener.  I wish more people would post over here!  Can I get a "Dark forum" over here please?  8) ;)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on April 11, 2017, 07:40:40 AM
Yep, wish we could get more over here. On the other forum, I can't even let people know about any specials we have going on and we have some really good ones, right now.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: HarperVision on April 11, 2017, 02:19:27 PM
I do have to say, it does seem like some mods over there are on quite the power trip.  It reminds of back in my grade school days and one of your friends got chosen as a Hall Safety Patrol Monitor.  Once they put on that fluorescent belt with the shoulder strap.....Oh boy, look out!  Their big head couldn't fit through the double doors of the entrance way anymore!  ;D

(https://ibhuluimcom-a.akamaihd.net/ib.huluim.com/video/10606803?region=US&size=600x400)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on April 11, 2017, 02:50:20 PM
Completely uncalled for. The thread in question should have been closed long ago. All it was was a trashing thread about buyers remorse, not a genuine issue.

The wrong person was banned IMO, at least, I hope the other person got some sort of infraction.

I know it was my post which triggered the lock down, but I am sorry, I wont stand by while totally false information is spread. I think you guys agree, it can seem like it goes on and on, but it was getting out of hand the amount of complaining based on a list of false facts. So I corrected him, and so did others.

NO IDEA why Andreas has been banned though, he didn't do anything wrong in that thread, must have been the OP reporting every single post of his and writing complaints to the Mods, that's the only thing I can think of...

Wonder how many times he has done the same with me, thankfully I have never had an infraction, touch wood.

Opinions are one thing, I will never argue those, false and incorrect information in a public forum, I will argue those until I am blue in the face.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on April 12, 2017, 04:10:33 AM
I do have to say, it does seem like some mods over there are on quite the power trip.  It reminds of back in my grade school days and one of your friends got chosen as a Hall Safety Patrol Monitor.  Once they put on that fluorescent belt with the shoulder strap.....Oh boy, look out!  Their big head couldn't fit through the double doors of the entrance way anymore!  ;D

(https://ibhuluimcom-a.akamaihd.net/ib.huluim.com/video/10606803?region=US&size=600x400)

(http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/708/lo7.JPG)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: thebland on April 12, 2017, 09:45:55 AM

Wonder how many times he has done the same with me, thankfully I have never had an infraction, touch wood.

Opinions are one thing, I will never argue those, false and incorrect information in a public forum, I will argue those until I am blue in the face.

I have 3 pages of infractions over the years at AVS. However, the current zero tolerance policy at AVS is really offensive. Enjoying reads here, though...
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on April 12, 2017, 11:45:09 AM
Thanks guys!

I actually did not have that many infractions with never disappearing points and I have no idea how many of those points I had before the forever ban. I don´t know how many point one can get before a forever ban either. I asked this with the contact us button, but I never got an answer. I got an answer why I was banned though and it was for insulting members?? I don´t think I posted many insulting posts in the last months. I had quite many one point infractions over the years, but they disappear after a while if I am not mistaken.

I got a 14 day ban a couple of years ago for calling a member "childish", and in my country that is not insulting. And the member I called that was acting like a child so I was actually just pointing out a fact... :)

I think the forum is run in a very bad way and I was actually thinking of asking for my user to be deleted anyway. The mods do a very bad job and they are treating members very different and are not fair at all. I have a friend and by mistake he has two users in there and he got a never ending ban because of it and when he asked if the very old user to be deleted he got the answer users can not be deleted in there. How can that be?

Why @roxiedog13 is allowed to post so much misinformation in there is a big mystery to me, @Javs and many others has corrected him many times and like always he simply ignores the truth and thinks he is just a fair user just wanting to help others?? I think this is very far from the truth.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on April 17, 2017, 09:22:51 AM
I have 3 pages of infractions over the years at AVS. However, the current zero tolerance policy at AVS is really offensive. Enjoying reads here, though...

Same here with 3 pages. Sometimes things get heated. I agree with Javs. I cannot stand when people try and spread misinformation. There are 3-4 knuckleheads over on AVSForum that do this constantly and the same dozen or so people get involved and more often than not the people who deserve the ban or infraction aren't the ones who get it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: HarperVision on April 21, 2017, 02:25:11 PM
Same here with 3 pages. Sometimes things get heated. I agree with Javs. I cannot stand when people try and spread misinformation. There are 3-4 knuckleheads over on AVSForum that do this constantly and the same dozen or so people get involved and more often than not the people who deserve the ban or infraction aren't the ones who get it.

Hey, I represent that remark!  Oh no, that's just more "misinformation" that I am spreading.  Sorry. ;)

Signed,
A "Knucklehead"
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 20, 2017, 10:17:22 AM
never lifted...not gonna lie...been a lot less aggravation not replying to the morons on that site

I just got banned for life too. Seegs108 at AVSForum is no more. Agreed with your sentiment. Apparently by complaining Sony uses software to fix the hardware issues is too much for the mods to handle:

(https://i.imgur.com/XnvWOCA.png)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on September 20, 2017, 10:28:27 AM
It's better over here.  8)  We need more discussion on this forum.  :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on September 20, 2017, 11:15:02 AM
I just got banned for life too. Seegs108 at AVSForum is no more. Agreed with your sentiment. Apparently by complaining Sony uses software to fix the hardware issues is too much for the mods to handle:

(https://i.imgur.com/XnvWOCA.png)

Wow - must have been the " two toddlers " comment - which is now gone.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 20, 2017, 11:55:28 AM
Wow - must have been the " two toddlers " comment - which is now gone.

Actually it was that I said "Fix the f*cking lens" in that exact way. If you look at my last post you'll see it was edited by a moderator and removed the bad language. I assume he's the one who banned me for life. Out of all the arguments I've gotten into there, ironically it's my potty mouth that gets me permanently banned and not  one of the arguments. Seems like a harsh punishment for an already censored swear word.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on September 20, 2017, 12:07:59 PM
welcome to the club!!

and yes much better here welcome!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 20, 2017, 12:17:50 PM
It's better over here.  8)  We need more discussion on this forum.  :)

Agreed. I still think the forum needs a hook to get more people over here. Some official reviews of AV products would be good. Something similar to what AVForum does over in the UK would be a good format. A nice writeup, with a shorter but still informative video.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on September 20, 2017, 12:27:12 PM
Agreed. I still think the forum needs a hook to get more people over here. Some official reviews of AV products would be good. Something similar to what AVForum does over in the UK would be a good format. A nice writeup, with a shorter but still informative video.

How about you start a thread where you post reviews of the many projectors that you test. I'm thinking " Dylan's Corner " has a nice ring to it ! Use all the self censored swear words you want !  ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 20, 2017, 01:21:03 PM
How about you start a thread where you post reviews of the many projectors that you test. I'm thinking " Dylan's Corner " has a nice ring to it ! Use all the self censored swear words you want !  ;D

If I were to do something like this it would have to be professional.  Reviews should be about objective truths, not based on the reviewer's subjective take on how it performs. I mean, yes, there would be a little write up on that too,  but not everyone is going to want to read a tirade on how I personally don't like something because it may not bother that person as much as it does me. So my criticisms would be briefly talked about and if possible a photo or some other evidence of the issue would be presented, but I would probably leave it at that and let the reader make their own mind up about it. Or they could ask me in a PM or on the forum in another thread.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: MrTibbs on September 20, 2017, 01:37:28 PM
I wasnt banned today but I got two stupid childish warnings - one was because I disagreed with an EX MOD and they warned me for 'ignoring staff rules' - you cant even dispute it. Anyway - ive been there 16yrs and get treated like crap so i hit google and found you guys (although I thought you were one and the same).
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on September 20, 2017, 02:06:59 PM
I wasnt banned today but I got two stupid childish warnings - one was because I disagreed with an EX MOD and they warned me for 'ignoring staff rules' - you cant even dispute it. Anyway - ive been there 16yrs and get treated like crap so i hit google and found you guys (although I thought you were one and the same).

Mr. Tibbs, is that you?  Kidding, because I have no idea who you are.  What was your screen name over at the other site?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on September 20, 2017, 02:42:53 PM
I'd be very willing to be a reviewer if allowed
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on September 20, 2017, 02:49:57 PM
Actually it was that I said "Fix the f*cking lens" in that exact way. If you look at my last post you'll see it was edited by a moderator and removed the bad language. I assume he's the one who banned me for life. Out of all the arguments I've gotten into there, ironically it's my potty mouth that gets me permanently banned and not  one of the arguments. Seems like a harsh punishment for an already censored swear word.

They probably just used that as an excuse.  I'm really not sure what's going on over there...
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 20, 2017, 09:06:27 PM
They probably just used that as an excuse.  I'm really not sure what's going on over there...

Who knows? I may have pissed off a forum sponsor who wants to sell a lot of Sony 4Ks this year. To be fair though I never started any of the conversations revolving around the known issues. I simply answered questions and corrected falsehoods about the problems being presented. Either way, none of these issues look good especially when a lot of dealers are hoping to sell a lot of projectors this fall. This is just my guess. I've said many worse things on the forum before and the punishment has never been this bad. Usually just a warning or a thread being locked. Apparently self censoring the F-word is crossing the line?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ellisr63 on September 20, 2017, 09:42:01 PM
I got banned a couple of weeks ago...not permanent though..
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on September 21, 2017, 08:28:56 AM
I just got banned for life too. Seegs108 at AVSForum is no more. Agreed with your sentiment. Apparently by complaining Sony uses software to fix the hardware issues is too much for the mods to handle:

(https://i.imgur.com/XnvWOCA.png)

That sucks. Would love to get more of the old group over here and then it would help draw more people.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on September 21, 2017, 08:36:01 AM
That sucks. Would love to get more of the old group over here and then it would help draw more people.

They will all be here just as soon as they get banned too !  :-X ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on September 21, 2017, 10:28:46 PM
What the F!?

This is crazy.

Amazingly I have never even received an infraction, whatever those are.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 21, 2017, 11:22:11 PM
What the F!?

This is crazy.

Amazingly I have never even received an infraction, whatever those are.

Arguments get heated sometimes. Infractions are often given when things get personal and don't remain on topic. Though this time there was no argument. I'm not sure how and why a lifetime ban was necessary from my post? Without being able to log into my account I don't even have the option to PM a moderator to ask about all of this and why a lifetime ban was an appropriate response. I mean, wouldn't something like a 30 day ban be more appropriate? No one person was harmed or attacked with my last post.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on September 22, 2017, 05:29:53 AM
well if you read why I was perma banned...it was for calling MBM's the HT equivalent of a ghettoblaster......wtf??

how is ghettoblaster insulting!!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: xxrb1 on September 22, 2017, 06:42:15 AM
As long as they have enough active accounts, they can ban whoever they want without hurting their business.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on September 22, 2017, 07:47:50 AM
What the F!?

This is crazy.

Amazingly I have never even received an infraction, whatever those are.

I got an infraction for putting a link to this website - in a PM !  >:(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on September 22, 2017, 01:54:51 PM
I got an infraction for putting a link to this website - in a PM !  >:(

You're such a rebel, Craig.  ;D :P
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on September 22, 2017, 02:13:41 PM
You're such a rebel, Craig.  ;D :P

Rebels get permanently banned, so you really can't win !  :-X
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Kevin Snyder on September 23, 2017, 08:31:34 AM
I just got banned for life too. Seegs108 at AVSForum is no more. Agreed with your sentiment. Apparently by complaining Sony uses software to fix the hardware issues is too much for the mods to handle:

(https://i.imgur.com/XnvWOCA.png)
How did you find out that Seegs108 is no more?  I don't agree with everything he says (obviously), but I respect his opinions and feel that I learn from him as well.  How could we get him over here?  (Along with many others, preferrably)  I apologize that I am more of a lurker than poster, but appreciate all of you.

Kevin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on September 23, 2017, 09:24:47 AM
How did you find out that Seegs108 is no more?  I don't agree with everything he says (obviously), but I respect his opinions and feel that I learn from him as well.  How could we get him over here?  (Along with many others, preferrably)  I apologize that I am more of a lurker than poster, but appreciate all of you.

Kevin

He is here - he posted that !
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stridsvognen on September 23, 2017, 11:34:08 AM
Arguments get heated sometimes. Infractions are often given when things get personal and don't remain on topic. Though this time there was no argument. I'm not sure how and why a lifetime ban was necessary from my post? Without being able to log into my account I don't even have the option to PM a moderator to ask about all of this and why a lifetime ban was an appropriate response. I mean, wouldn't something like a 30 day ban be more appropriate? No one person was harmed or attacked with my last post.

I think if a vendor reports that they feel insulted, no matter how unjustifyed that is your pretty sure to get booted without any explanation. Welcome in the club.. ;)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 23, 2017, 11:37:36 AM
I think if a vendor reports that they feel insulted, no matter how unjustifyed that is your pretty sure to get booted without any explanation. Welcome in the club.. ;)

I have no evidence at all that this is what happened. I just don't think I did anything particularly bad, relatively speaking, to justify a ban. I've been in much worse ad hominem situations before. This wasn't even an ad hominem situation. This is why I have a feeling there was some sort of ulterior motive behind my ban and that they're using my bad language as a justification to issue the ban.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stridsvognen on September 23, 2017, 11:55:40 AM
I have no evidence at all that this is what happened. I just don't think I did anything particularly bad, relatively speaking, to justify a ban. I've been in much worse ad hominem situations before. This wasn't even an ad hominem situation. This is why I have a feeling there was some sort of ulterior motive behind my ban and that they're using my bad language as a justification to issue the ban.

My feeling is that anything that can upset vendors/ advertisors, discovery of issues or facts they like not to be talked about, will get you banned sooner or later, its not a forum for the users, but a advertising site, so the shiny ilusion about the products have to remain intact. And you have for sure scratched the paint on some.

No matter if your right, or not, it cost sales, so they have to remove you to not risk loosing profit from advertisors.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on September 23, 2017, 03:20:58 PM
Does Sony even advertise there?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 23, 2017, 03:56:01 PM
Does Sony even advertise there?

Companies that sell Sony do. I suspect a lot of money is to be made now that they have native 4K projectors at the $4999 and $7999 price points. More people are capable of buying them now which means that if expectations of performance were brought down to non-hyperbole levels less units will sell. I'm not even posting there anymore and people are still discussing banding issues. If you look at the 285ES owners thread an owner who took possession of his unit yesterday said he can see banding if he looks closely at the image. This isn't just with 4K 60p 10 bit HDR content either. Same thing I've been complaining about for years. I wonder if they're going to ban him next?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on September 24, 2017, 09:04:16 AM
Companies that sell Sony do. I suspect a lot of money is to be made now that they have native 4K projectors at the $4999 and $7999 price points. More people are capable of buying them now which means that if expectations of performance were brought down to non-hyperbole levels less units will sell. I'm not even posting there anymore and people are still discussing banding issues. If you look at the 285ES owners thread an owner who took possession of his unit yesterday said he can see banding if he looks closely at the image. This isn't just with 4K 60p 10 bit HDR content either. Same thing I've been complaining about for years. I wonder if they're going to ban him next?

I don't think one needs to look for conspiracy theories to explain your ban. Most likely you just irritated the wrong people too many times. The moderators probably just got tired of getting emails from members you rubbed the wrong way.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 24, 2017, 01:34:40 PM
I don't think one needs to look for conspiracy theories to explain your ban. Most likely you just irritated the wrong people too many times. The moderators probably just got tired of getting emails from members you rubbed the wrong way.

There is probably a fair bit of truth in this. I will say, however, that things only became heated with people who were either equally nasty to me or from people who simply did not want to accept the truth about things.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on September 25, 2017, 05:37:27 PM
Sorry to hear about this.  I really found your posts and experiences very informative.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on September 25, 2017, 09:43:58 PM
I'd guess that rather than a company complaining, Dylan was thrown under the bus by a Martin and a dog, and their followers. 

Probably, but c'mon...conspiracy theories are more fun. ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on September 26, 2017, 12:53:25 AM
I just got banned for life too. Seegs108 at AVSForum is no more. Agreed with your sentiment. Apparently by complaining Sony uses software to fix the hardware issues is too much for the mods to handle:

(https://i.imgur.com/XnvWOCA.png)

I am sorry to hear you are now in the same club as me, and it seems to grow quite quickly.

I think @roxiedog13 is on a roll now and he is getting all Sony critics banned for life in there, it is simply a disgrace you got banned, and I feel the same for myself. I have tried to get my user reopened, but it is simply impossible . It is like I am a serial killer with no chance of parole. 8)

I think the moderators at AVS is doing a really bad job with the lifetime bans, they are banning the wrong people .

I think it is time to get this forum up to a level so we can start using this instead and AVS will slowly die, and the way they treat users they clearly deserve it.

When I was permanently banned I also did nothing major in my posts earlier other than describing a Fanboy and how he behaves in a quote of @roxiedog13. I got the ban a day later and I did not understand. The reason I was banned permanently was for insults. I dont know how it works in thw US, but many of my infractions is not even close to be called an insult in my  country. I got a 14 day ban for calliong a member childish when he clearly was, I would never even got a warning for that in a Norwegian forum.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on September 26, 2017, 04:45:33 AM
I think if a vendor reports that they feel insulted, no matter how unjustifyed that is your pretty sure to get booted without any explanation. Welcome in the club.. ;)

I would think that you would have to be a poster to complain and Sony, JVC nor Epson post.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on September 26, 2017, 04:49:20 AM
My feeling is that anything that can upset vendors/ advertisors, discovery of issues or facts they like not to be talked about, will get you banned sooner or later, its not a forum for the users, but a advertising site, so the shiny ilusion about the products have to remain intact. And you have for sure scratched the paint on some.

No matter if your right, or not, it cost sales, so they have to remove you to not risk loosing profit from advertisors.

Then you would think that some people in the CMD thread would have been banned. That thread was much worse than the Sony contrast loss thread. Besides the Sony contrast loss thread was up for several years, so that blows that theory out of the water. I think several posters that did not like what or how something was posted, just complained a lot. The administration got tired of constantly fielding these complaints and banned Seegs. That is my guess.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stridsvognen on September 26, 2017, 12:45:12 PM
I would think that you would have to be a poster to complain and Sony, JVC nor Epson post.

I made a Hdfury user review wich i know Hdfury reported as insulting, and there is plenty of dealers calibrators and alike that have financial interests in reporting specifik users creating bad pr for specifik products.. Ill bet it would not be very much different on this forum if it came to a situation where a user posted stuff costing the forum owner money, like lost sales or advertising income.

A forum is not a place where justice rules, its a place where the ones running the forum rules, and in the end.. Money rules, potentially a forum created by users for users would be a bit different, but that normaly also gets messed up in personal intrests.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on September 26, 2017, 01:00:48 PM
Then you would think that some people in the CMD thread would have been banned. That thread was much worse than the Sony contrast loss thread. Besides the Sony contrast loss thread was up for several years, so that blows that theory out of the water. I think several posters that did not like what or how something was posted, just complained a lot. The administration got tired of constantly fielding these complaints and banned Seegs. That is my guess.

That dog over there which makes a lot of messes seems to have a good relationship with the mods.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on September 27, 2017, 06:47:08 AM
That dog over there which makes a lot of messes seems to have a good relationship with the mods.

Which is why I put him on my ignore list a year ago.  He's still at his shenanigans I see.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on September 27, 2017, 07:19:07 AM
Which is why I put him on my ignore list a year ago.  He's still at his shenanigans I see.

Seemed like the best place for him  ???
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on October 07, 2017, 11:36:14 PM
I think some people on the avsforum have figured out that the following tends to work there:

1. Deceive
2. Whine to the mods to get help getting corrections to your deceptions removed.
3. Repeat

Some of us won't do things like that even though we know we could get away with it.

I personally wouldn't trust one poster from there any further than I could see him. It isn't that he was wrong (we are all wrong sometimes), it is what he has done since he was wrong that I think falls into the deception category. He even has tried to fool people into thinking that a response he got from a JVC person actually supports the essence of his original position about lens requirements even though it completely contradicts his original position and supports what I told him from the beginning, just like what Rod Sterling of JVC said on the subject matter (where Rod would likely be that other JVC person's superior on subjects like lens requirements).

Unfortunately, some people will take a representative of a company being nice and implying that they basically understand things, just before the representative tells them why they are wrong (the word "however" is a good clue), as an opportunity to deceive and make it look like their original position had merit, when it has none.

Hopefully people here won't be fooled. If Sony decides to add eShift to their 4k projectors it won't shock me at all if they try to fool people into thinking that eShift doesn't change the lens requirements at all, while higher native resolutions do. The no change to lens requirements with eShift is completely false if you believe that higher native resolutions increase lens requirements, so if Sony chooses that path, hopefully people won't be fooled. Same thing if DLP manufacturers add XPR to 4k projectors.

There are some people over there who I think are trustworthy, so it isn't all bad. Javs on the avsforum originally thought like many others that since eShift sub-frames don't go through the lens at the same time they don't affect the lens requirements, but after thinking about it a little bit he realized he had been wrong. He then took the path of integrity and admitted he had been wrong to start with. He is one of the members I trust on that site.

I personally think it is sad when the truth doesn't count for a whole lot. Hopefully it does on this site.

--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on October 12, 2017, 09:09:58 AM
Yeah, what is going on over there....

I keep looking at the new RS640 thread, and it's basically a whine about JVC thread.  I realize there's only a couple units in folks hands, but like 99% of the posts in that thread are talking about issues with older models.  I don't remember the RS600 or RS620 threads being like that, but then again I didn't really start following the RS600 one until I got mine which was a while after it came out.   And it seems like a lot of the folks that have been banned have been rather "pro JVC".

It's almost like there's a concerted anti-JVC effort going on over there.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 12, 2017, 10:20:04 AM
Speaking of CMD banding. I see AMartin seems fine with the banding issues on the 385ES with a 4K60 10bit image. Talk about a hypocritical POS. If you bitch about an issue that much and then give the other brand a pass when that brand has the same issue just as bad (or worse in the case of the Sony) you're a fanboy who's only purpose was to dramatize and discredit a brand as much as possible. He's literally the worst person on that forum. If JVC had the same issues the Sony has, you'd be seeing just as much noise from me about them as I've made about the Sonys. When JVCs had terrible issues with motion years back I made a lot of noise. I don't discriminate based on brand, but rather who has the most obnoxious issues at any given time.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on October 12, 2017, 11:01:41 AM
Speaking of CMD banding. I see AMartin seems fine with the banding issues on the 385ES with a 4K60 10bit image.

Yeah, I'm still not sure why him and Toe are posting so much in the RS640 thread when neither of them have one, nor will be getting one.

-edit, I guess Toe has one, I should really ignore folks on my Ignore list.  :-\

Quote
If JVC had the same issues the Sony has, you'd be seeing just as much noise from me about them as I've made about the Sonys. When JVCs had terrible issues with motion years back I made a lot of noise.

I remember those days, you DLP shill ;)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 12, 2017, 01:34:37 PM
Yeah, I'm still not sure why him and Toe are posting so much in the RS640 thread when neither of them have one, nor will be getting one.

I remember those days, you DLP shill ;)


As you know the PD8150 was excellent and class leading up until a few years ago. Then JVC fixed the majority of their major issues and dominated the market in terms of price and overall performance.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on October 13, 2017, 12:29:18 PM
I cannot help but notice how much Sony advertising has been taking place on the other forum lately.  Of course, their front page ran a 5000ES "white paper" infomercial article series some not long ago.  I am starting to wonder if this is explaining some of the biased moderating on the site.  Money talks, the rest walks...as it's said in a more polite manner.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on October 13, 2017, 01:38:16 PM
Actually I noticed that too. Who knows.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stridsvognen on October 13, 2017, 01:58:23 PM
Its nothing new.. You just wont notice it untill you say something that dont agree with the advertising ( money flow), wich is not written into the rules. Its like that on all forums, some worse than others.

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on October 14, 2017, 03:57:42 PM
Its nothing new.. You just wont notice it untill you say something that dont agree with the advertising ( money flow), wich is not written into the rules. Its like that on all forums, some worse than others.

https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.avsforum.com

Looks like the reviews went downhill after Verticalscope bought it. Hummm...........
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on October 16, 2017, 03:03:11 PM
Its nothing new.. You just wont notice it untill you say something that dont agree with the advertising ( money flow), wich is not written into the rules. Its like that on all forums, some worse than others.

https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.avsforum.com

No advertising on this forum.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 18, 2017, 01:29:59 PM
It's been fun watching the other forum where the Sony fanboys are trying to justify projector-added banding in the image by making it seem that it's somehow an okay issue. This morning I saw a moderator and administrator comment on all the reported "complaints" they've received about a member posting in the 285ES/385ES thread regarding issues they were seeing on their 550/675ES. Apparently the complainers reporting these posts think that the issues seen on a 550/675ES have no bearing on the 285ES/385ES. This is something I find laughable. Their argument is that these projectors are inherently different. I hate to break it the deniers out there but all lamp-based units currently sold by Sony are built on the same exact platform and the vast majority of parts remain exactly the same between them. How do you think Sony cuts down on costs and is able to bring one of these projectors to market for half the cost as last year? It's called economies of scale. JVC has been doing this for about a decade now and is how they're able to bring performance levels down so far in cost. The only meaningful differences between them are an iris in the lens and the wattage of the lamps inside them. The video processing solution, panels, lens quality, I/O, ect are the same between these models. Why on earth wouldn't the 675ES exhibit the same problems that these others models exhibit? Why can't you use the 675ES as added proof to issues on the 285ES/385ES? In fact, didn't we hear last year when the 675ES was released that these exact same banding problems were present with a 4K60 10bit image? hmmm interesting....but yes, continue to complain to the moderators to discredit evidence when it's put forth. These complainers that the mods/admins talked about are children who've taken their pride of ownership to the next level and will purposefully band together to mislead and inject ambiguous tones to issues that their projector has. On top of this they're reporting posts so they're removed, which in turn makes it so less people will think the projector they own has issues. Grow up. Nothing is perfect. Just admit and live with the issues.

One owner who spoke with ES Support confirmed this is a hardware issue and is not something that can be fixed via firmware. It will be an issue present until at least new models are released. Even then, if Sony doesn't update their 5 year old 4K SXRD platform I suspect these issues will remain. This platform needs a complete overhaul. New revised SXRD panels, panel drivers, video processing, I/O upgrades and a nicer lens. If they don't update all of this I have a feeling 4K DiLA is going to wipe the floor clean with these SXRD models once JVC has some price-competitive native 4K projectors out. Their Eshift platform already puts out better overall image quality as it stands IMO, and does this for less money. More lumens, more contrast, a better lens, better video processing, full 18Gbps ports, subjectively as good on-screen resolution, more color saturation and does this while putting out less noise and heat. This now 5-year old platform is really starting to show it's age. Instead of Sony trying to make the most of this aging platform (which is failing to produce a clean and accurate image) they need to make the investment for next year and release a completely revamped 4K SXRD platform. It's a must. I've already discussed how this current platform is held back in my 285ES comparison write up. Color-wise, in all modes and input types, 4K SXRD is not able to produce a full 4K image. It may have 8.8 million pixels, but it cannot faithfully represent the color information that's present in these 4K sources discreetly to all 8.8 million of those pixels. Again, we need upgrades with Sony's hardware for this to happen.

I keep seeing one member making the claim that the same banding he saw on his 675ES was also there on the RS600. Sure, if banding is in the source, an RS600 will show it. JVC projectors have always been the more analytical projectors rendering the video closer to what is in the source. But we objectively know that these newest Sony's are showing additional banding not present in source material, so claims that these SXRD projectors have no influence on showing this artifact are complete BS and I think is purposefully misleading. I hope as much effort that went into a CMD banding fix goes into a fix for banding on SXRD projectors. But it seems many of the same members who were hell bent on getting CMD fixed are, hypocritically, the ones who are trying to make it seem as if this is a non-issue or that it's not actually the projector causing it. I also see that they're lauding Ekki's findings that the issue can be somewhat mitigated by using a special set of menu settings. But in reality are most users going to know about this and implement them? Is this acceptable performance with out-of-the-box settings which is how the vast majority of end users are going to use their projector? I don't think so. If Ekki's findings are true, Sony should issue a firmware update to make these settings the default ones or make a production line change so that this is how the projector performs out of the box.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on October 18, 2017, 02:36:32 PM
After reading this I had to go catch up on those threads. There are more than a few complaints ! Too bad - the Sony's throw a nice picture otherwise.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 18, 2017, 03:50:59 PM
After reading this I had to go catch up on those threads. There are more than a few complaints ! Too bad - the Sony's throw a nice picture otherwise.

I just found it ridiculous that these people were trying to shut up a 550ES (675ES) owner because he was being vocal in the 285ES/385ES threads to help show off the issue these units are having with a 60hz 4k HDR image being sent to the projector. And it was enough complaints that not one, but two forum staff commented on it. He's been the most vocal person and they want to use a cheap excuse (it not being a 285ES/385ES) as a way to shut him up in those threads. I think these guys have reached an all time low. Like I said before, just own the issue.  Stop trying to make it seem as if the issue is not real or not the fault of the projector. Maybe if they hadn't dug themselves into such a large hole to begin with necessitating that these new Sony's be pretty much perfect they'd do the right thing and be as vocal to Sony about these issues as they were about CMD banding to JVC and potential JVC buyers. But they can't admit to these faults because they're so invested into the same old arguments they've been making for months that they'd look foolish to go against what they've been spouting for so long. If anyone reading this feels I've made the wrong assessment on this situation please let me know.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: HarperVision on October 19, 2017, 03:52:27 PM
No advertising on this forum.

Except for you and Craig selling for the awesome AV Science store! :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: HarperVision on October 19, 2017, 04:01:38 PM
I just found it ridiculous that these people were trying to shut up a 550ES (675ES) owner because he was being vocal in the 285ES/385ES threads to help show off the issue these units are having with a 60hz 4k HDR image being sent to the projector. And it was enough complaints that not one, but two forum staff commented on it. He's been the most vocal person and they want to use a cheap excuse (it not being a 285ES/385ES) as a way to shut him up in those threads. I think these guys have reached an all time low. Like I said before, just own the issue.  Stop trying to make it seem as if the issue is not real or not the fault of the projector. Maybe if they hadn't dug themselves into such a large hole to begin with necessitating that these new Sony's be pretty much perfect they'd do the right thing and be as vocal to Sony about these issues as they were about CMD banding to JVC and potential JVC buyers. But they can't admit to these faults because they're so invested into the same old arguments they've been making for months that they'd look foolish to go against what they've been spouting for so long. If anyone reading this feels I've made the wrong assessment on this situation please let me know.

I know we have had our differences Dylan, but I agree with you on this myself.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on October 19, 2017, 04:19:28 PM
Except for you and Craig selling for the awesome AV Science store! :)

We are equal opportunity resellers !  ;)  No bias - we accept cash for JVC, Sony, Epson and many other brands ! 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 19, 2017, 06:06:44 PM
I know we have had our differences Dylan, but I agree with you on this myself.

I appreciate that. Thanks
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 19, 2017, 07:24:46 PM
I think Craig and Mike do a good job at keeping personal feelings out of their posts. They tend to use objective reasoning when answering most questions. Though I'm sure if asked in a more private environment, they'll tell you what they personally think.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on October 19, 2017, 07:41:00 PM
I think Craig and Mike do a good job at keeping personal feelings out of their posts. They tend to use objective reasoning when answering most questions. Though I'm sure if asked in a more private environment, they'll tell you what they personally think.

I'll tell you what I think - projectors are basically TV's. They are expensive toys, and they are fun. None are perfect, but since I can guarantee 100% that I'll be dead in less than 50 years, the search for the perfect projector is fruitless. You pick the best machine you can comfortably afford, with compromises ( they all have them ) you can live with, and go watch some movies with your friends and family. Which reminds me, I'd better get my Halloween Film Festival schedule together !  :)

But seriously, when someone calls asking about projectors, I give them pricing, the pros and cons of each one, and sometimes a homework assignment to read reviews at projectorreviews.com and sound and vision. I say " read up on these projectors you're interested in and call back tomorrow ". If one of you guys call, you already know what you want - I'm just an order taker. Everyone else gets sent to class to some degree. That way they can make an informed purchase. And I rarely have an unhappy customer ( almost never ).  :) 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on October 23, 2017, 10:02:16 AM
"Coincidentally", it sure seems like there's a lot more dealers, especially Sony and DLP (Optoma), posting openly on the other forum than there used to be....
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on October 23, 2017, 11:10:31 AM
Seems like the wild west over there at times. For a while, AVSF was letting people post whatever they wanted, regarding street prices.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on October 23, 2017, 11:53:15 AM
"Coincidentally", it sure seems like there's a lot more dealers, especially Sony and DLP (Optoma), posting openly on the other forum than there used to be....

Something else new - Sony sending " imagic " / Mark Henninger projectors to review. Interesting.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: reddman71 on October 23, 2017, 02:36:22 PM
I've been a member of AVSForum for a number of years. I'm mostly a sit back,listen and learn type of guy. I've noticed as it's been mentioned numerous that there is very little objectivity there now. Some defend a brand even when logical and irrefutable evidence is laid out before them. Which to me is shameful. "I'm ok with the banding because the picture is so great on this Sony" Really???? LMAO. Why wasn't the JVC afforded the same exception?


Dylan,
 I've quietly watched you try repeatedly attempt to reason with the same individuals on many occasions with no success.
Instead of listening and giving a few minutes attention to what you were stating, you were attacked. You gave as good as you received though and I must say that I respect the passion that you have for this hobby and I've learned a lot from you and other more impartial guys over time.

There's an agenda being strongly pushed at AVSForum
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on October 24, 2017, 02:12:23 PM
I've been a member of AVSForum for a number of years. I'm mostly a sit back,listen and learn type of guy. I've noticed as it's been mentioned numerous that there is very little objectivity there now. Some defend a brand even when logical and irrefutable evidence is laid out before them. Which to me is shameful. "I'm ok with the banding because the picture is so great on this Sony" Really???? LMAO. Why wasn't the JVC afforded the same exception?


Dylan,
 I've quietly watched you try repeatedly attempt to reason with the same individuals on many occasions with no success.
Instead of listening and giving a few minutes attention to what you were stating, you were attacked. You gave as good as you received though and I must say that I respect the passion that you have for this hobby and I've learned a lot from you and other more impartial guys over time.

There's an agenda being strongly pushed at AVSForum

I think the answer to the question in bold is simple. These same people who didn't afford the JVC the same exception blindly defended a product that wasn't released yet, while also blindly pre-ordering it, and now they would look like fools if they were to admit that the projector they bought has the same issues. So obviously downplay and excuses are happening. They kind of need to live with the choices they've made because they'd be ridiculed if they went back to a (now fixed) JVC projector.

In the end though, I think everyone making such a fuss about 60p HDR banding is a good thing. I think all the negative publicity is going to force Sony into making a fix and this is good news for all consumers who end up buying a Sony 4K SXRD projector. This is what kind of bothers me about Sony threads on AVSForum. It's like they don't realize that talking about these issues is the best way to get them fixed. Negative publicity is easily the best way to get a problem fixed and some Sony owners don't realize this. Or maybe they do realize this but their pride of ownership (and seemingly endless pursuit of hushing up criticism) is holding them back. In the end it seems like they would rather live with the issues, as they don't want them discussed, so that the perception of their projector remains good or "better" than everything else. Maybe I'm being a little harsh here, but as I've said many times before, Sony 4K projector owners seem to be the only ones exhibiting this phenomenon. I just don't see people reporting posts in the JVC and Epson threads that discuss negative aspects and I especially don't see those who are wishing to speak out against a JVC or Epson projector needing to start their own thread. The CMD banding thread was started only because AMartin56 wanted the problem headlined anytime someone went to the $3000+ forum. He wasn't forced to start his own thread outside the JVC owners threads like many discussing Sony problems were forced to do. Myself included.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on October 24, 2017, 08:16:11 PM
I think a lot of it is, Sony's product release history has allowed them to create a certain blind loyal following. Maybe it stems back from the days of Betamax, or Walkman, or Trinitron CRT, or PlayStation, or Blu-ray.  I'm probably forgetting other products they were behind.  But they created a fanbase and their marketing allowed them to create an almost majestic image that no other manufacturer has been able to reach.  I mean the label "Sony fanboy" goes way back and beyond front projection.  I believe some of these people think when they buy a Sony, it's the best money can buy, period; and it's not to be questioned especially considering how much they paid.  "It HAS to be the best.  It's a Sony!"  People who buy other manufacturer products don't have this sort of emotional attachment or response to a brand and therefore can be more objective - generally speaking.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: reddman71 on October 27, 2017, 10:03:45 AM
I,for one, have never been one to blindly follow the general consensus. Just because everyone says it doesn't make it truth. People are too easily swayed by popular opinion as evidenced by the Sony following. I simply want the best value for my money with as little issues as possible. I agree with you Dylan, problems never get solved if they are swept under the rug kinda like out of sight out of mind. At least JVC acknowledged the issue and took steps to correct it. I can respect that and it shows that they take pride in their brand. Kudos to them. Now Sony on the other hand........... 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Greg9518LC on October 27, 2017, 12:02:23 PM
I find it amusing being banned as well from AVS but the more I see and sell the new digital's 
the more I will never get rid of my modded CRT projector. Having 4 new spare 9" projectors
waiting in the wings to be filled with glycol and used. Signal passes thru 3 stages on the highly modded crt projector and around 11 with digital. Easy to figure out which one is truer to the source.
Maybe next year for digital will get it right. As for me I will not be holding my breath for that to happen anytime soon.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Verge on October 30, 2017, 05:02:18 PM
I find it amusing being banned as well from AVS but the more I see and sell the new digital's 
the more I will never get rid of my modded CRT projector. Having 4 new spare 9" projectors
waiting in the wings to be filled with glycol and used. Signal passes thru 3 stages on the highly modded crt projector and around 11 with digital. Easy to figure out which one is truer to the source.
Maybe next year for digital will get it right. As for me I will not be holding my breath for that to happen anytime soon.

BUT THEY HAS THE HDR!!!!!


Well setup CRT looks similar :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on November 01, 2017, 02:12:12 PM
I'm starting to understand why some people get so frustrated with roxiedog.

On the good side, after first saying that the only scenes where he saw a CR advantage to a JVC over a Sony was on fades to black he did admit that he should have written something different, since it wasn't just fades to black.

On the bad side, he has posted 2 things that are completely false and seems to want to play games to keep from just admitting that he was wrong. I feel like I'm teaching junior high. I don't think it is too much to expect somebody to know the difference between the words "any" and "average" unless they aren't a native English speaker. After claiming that 1600 lumens from a Sony was enough light for any theater I pointed out that this wasn't true and he kept coming back with nonsense like how what mattered what the average home theater screen size and even wanted to know how big my screen is, as if this was relevant to whether 1600 lumens is enough for any home theater setup.

He even went off telling me that was uncalled for for me to tell him that what he posted was false. He doesn't seem to be able to handle being corrected, even when he is outright wrong, in which case I suggest that he not post things that are false.

The last one was him claiming that a Sony will maintain a 50% (or whatever the real value is) ANSI CR advantage over a lower ANSI CR JVC even in a light colored room. When I pointed out this was completely false and provided some of the math he then went into more nonsense about how watching them for 450 hours somehow gave him the intelligence to know what happened to the ANSI CR. Clueless is one thing, but clueless and willing to play games to keep from admitting a mistake is another thing. He clearly doesn't understand the math and physics involved here.

If you are reading this roxiedog and want to make an account, I would be happy to discuss it with you here. Playing games after you post something that is false in order to keep people from realizing you were wrong isn't likely to work here. And please don't whine about being corrected. Don't post things that are false and I won't correct them. Post things that are false and I will. You really should learn to deal with it if you are going to make false claims.

--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 01, 2017, 02:48:57 PM
The ANSI contrast claim was something I saw and had a good laugh at. If a room is only capable of 200:1 ANSI contrast, then there is next to no benefit of having something that does 400:1 as you're not going to see that kind of performance in your room. Most theater rooms are not capable of showing off as much ANSI contrast that some of these higher ANSI machines are able to give. Unlike on/off contrast, there is a HUGE point of diminished returns with ANSI contrast.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on November 01, 2017, 02:53:05 PM
Please don't call him over here.  :)   It's so nice and peacful here, we're getting along fine.  8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on November 01, 2017, 03:00:02 PM
I'm starting to understand why some people get so frustrated with roxiedog.

On the good side, after first saying that the only scenes where he saw a CR advantage to a JVC over a Sony was on fades to black he did admit that he should have written something different, since it wasn't just fades to black.

On the bad side, he has posted 2 things that are completely false and seems to want to play games to keep from just admitting that he was wrong. I feel like I'm teaching junior high. I don't think it is too much to expect somebody to know the difference between the words "any" and "average" unless they aren't a native English speaker. After claiming that 1600 lumens from a Sony was enough light for any theater I pointed out that this wasn't true and he kept coming back with nonsense like how what mattered what the average home theater screen size and even wanted to know how big my screen is, as if this was relevant to whether 1600 lumens is enough for any home theater setup.

--Darin

1600 lumens is barely adequate in my theater. And I have moderate sized 1.25+ gain screens. 4K HDR has changed the game when it comes to lumens. Rdog is just rationalizing his new projector. 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on November 01, 2017, 03:11:39 PM
Rdog is just rationalizing his new projector.
I'm guessing we are going to be saying that a lot. :)

--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 01, 2017, 03:34:20 PM
Please don't call him over here.  :)   It's so nice and peacful here, we're getting along fine.  8)

+1

We really don't want or need people like that here. Rdog epitomizes everything wrong with that forum.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on November 01, 2017, 03:37:36 PM
Its interesting that since I posted a whole bunch of measurements from Projection Dream proving him wrong, he has not replied to, or addressed them.

Definitely sounds like purchase self-justification to me. If you really read between the lines, that's all it ever is.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on November 01, 2017, 03:52:50 PM
He also hasn't responded since I pointed out that he was also wrong when he said, "ANSI is also relevant to on screen material On and Off is not."

Not even 100% sure what he meant by that, but looks like just one more example of his ignorance about what is going on.

If he actually knew how things worked and cared what the truth was we could discuss that one intelligently, but I don't see that happening.

I doubt he cares, but when I see somebody who admits to mistakes I figure I can trust them more later. At least they care about the truthfulness of what they say/post. With a person who plays games and outright refuses to admit they made a mistake long after it is obvious, I'm not going to trust them about subjects I don't know about in the future, since I know that the truth doesn't matter much to them.
 
--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: woofer on November 02, 2017, 12:26:44 AM
Myself and Bandyka have been conferring via PM about our upcoming 20LTD ,s ....i went to PM him this evening only to be greeted with a message he could not receive any PM,s.

I emailed him, and it turns out he has been Banned for "Mentioning selling his X9500 in the UK"      WHAT!!! >:(    How is this against their "rules" ..

The forum has certainly degraded over the years...  :(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on November 02, 2017, 06:07:23 AM
1600 lumens is barely adequate in my theater. And I have moderate sized 1.25+ gain screens. 4K HDR has changed the game when it comes to lumens. Rdog is just rationalizing his new projector.

Rationalizing a purchase is fine, and if he stuck with the "I watched both for 450 hours and I know what I saw" line, I don't think anyone would really care.  I don't doubt for a minute that he had both and that he liked his Sony better, though I suspect the JVC wasn't setup well.... 

What I don't get, and what's really annoying is how he feels the need to convince everyone else that his opinion is "right" and the way he'll say anything to prove it, and will ignore contrary evidence and get really offended when he's called out on it.  Kind of like someone else who's unwilling to accept that DLP is about a decade behind the curve and does pretty much the same thing to defend it, like trying to convince us all that DLP is better because $600 DLPs top the sales charts on amazon  :-\
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on November 02, 2017, 06:12:57 AM
Myself and Bandyka have been conferring via PM about our upcoming 20LTD ,s ....i went to PM him this evening only to be greeted with a message he could not receive any PM,s.

I emailed him, and it turns out he has been Banned for "Mentioning selling his X9500 in the UK"      WHAT!!! >:(    How is this against their "rules" ..

I got a warning for mentioning my RS600 when I was trying to sell it.  Though admittedly that particular post I probably did violate the spirit of the rules...

That said, it was a surprisingly heavy-handed threatening warning, not a "hey, remember you can't do that", it was the "Your post violates the rules and you'll be banned if you do it again".

The really frustrating part is there should be some sort of understanding that there's a difference between posting in threads saying "hey, I've got a xxx for sale in the classifieds, check it out" and just mentioning the fact that you're trying to sell something.  After that warning I was afraid to even mention selling my RS600, even just to say something like "when it's sold" or "if I get it sold"....  Made it really hard to talk about what I was going to do with my planned upgrades....

Did Bandy even have his listed in the classifieds?  It's sad, there's a difference between discussion and self promotion, mods should understand that and be able to recognize the difference.

Quote
The forum has certainly degraded over the years...  :(

Years?  I swear it's really been just the last 6 months that it's really gone down hill.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on November 02, 2017, 06:23:58 AM
Myself and Bandyka have been conferring via PM about our upcoming 20LTD ,s ....i went to PM him this evening only to be greeted with a message he could not receive any PM,s.

I emailed him, and it turns out he has been Banned for "Mentioning selling his X9500 in the UK"      WHAT!!! >:(    How is this against their "rules" ..

The forum has certainly degraded over the years...  :(

That's just crazy.   ??? >:(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on November 02, 2017, 07:23:36 AM
I'm starting to understand why some people get so frustrated with roxiedog. ...

On the bad side, he has posted 2 things that are completely false and seems to want to play games to keep from just admitting that he was wrong. I feel like I'm teaching junior high. ...

He even went off telling me that was uncalled for for me to tell him that what he posted was false. He doesn't seem to be able to handle being corrected, even when he is outright wrong, in which case I suggest that he not post things that are false.
...

--Darin

DUH!    IGNORE is your friend!!!! I put the 'dog' on my ignore list after the first couple of his posts.

Anybody remember the snarky little DLP kid from the under $3,000 thread that posted in the over $3,000 thread that anyone with a projector that cost more than his $499 DLP had paid too much? I posted that he didn't know what he was talking about and I got an infraction for it! A badge of honor!

Remember the other little DLP fanboy that liked to argue with zombie in zombie's thread? I had a Sharp DT-100 and a DT-400 both of which I liked.

I quit going to a lot of threads unless I saw the last response was from a respected member. One thread, which may have been the one seegs got banned from, I went to the last page and only saw seegs, zombie, craig and mike's posts with a whole lot of ignored posts!!!!! Ignore is good!!!!!!! I had 52 members in my ignore list. Unfortunately you still have to see the damn (please don't ban me!) quotes!!

I think mike may be wasting his time with oOOBillO0o!!!!!!!!!!!!

I always heard that "Children should be seen and not heard". I think it should be "not seen and not heard" until they grow up (that might be 40 now days!).

Another nail in the coffin for me is Scott's podcast being cancelled.

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Bombertodd on November 02, 2017, 08:53:50 AM


......

Another nail in the coffin for me is Scott's podcast being cancelled.

Bummer, I liked his podcast.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on November 02, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
Myself and Bandyka have been conferring via PM about our upcoming 20LTD ,s ....i went to PM him this evening only to be greeted with a message he could not receive any PM,s.

I emailed him, and it turns out he has been Banned for "Mentioning selling his X9500 in the UK"      WHAT!!! >:(    How is this against their "rules" ..

The forum has certainly degraded over the years...  :(

Bandyka just got banned - is that what you're saying ?  :o
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on November 02, 2017, 09:10:52 AM
Bandyka just got banned - is that what you're saying ?  :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhn9d7fVL1U
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 02, 2017, 09:19:55 AM
Myself and Bandyka have been conferring via PM about our upcoming 20LTD ,s ....i went to PM him this evening only to be greeted with a message he could not receive any PM,s.

I emailed him, and it turns out he has been Banned for "Mentioning selling his X9500 in the UK"      WHAT!!! >:(    How is this against their "rules" ..

The forum has certainly degraded over the years...  :(


Wow, that's ridiculous. It seems they're using the dumbest of excuses to ban people these days.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on November 02, 2017, 09:45:21 AM
Wow, that's ridiculous. It seems they're using the dumbest of excuses to ban people these days.

I got in trouble yesterday for making a " snide comment " about the moderators.  :-X 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on November 02, 2017, 10:22:35 AM
DUH!    IGNORE is your friend!!!!
I understand why the ignore feature works for some people, but I've never used it and probably never will. I see it as a way to let the misleaders get away with their misinformation.

I chuckle both when people threaten to put me on their ignore list and when they ask me to put them on my list. If they put me on their list then it just means that I get to correct their misinformation and they don't get to see it (unless they unignore the post). The last thing I would do is put somebody who is spouting misinformation on my ignore list, so asking me is fruitless. If they like the ignore feature so much they can put me on their list.

--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 02, 2017, 03:06:33 PM
I understand why the ignore feature works for some people, but I've never used it and probably never will. I see it as a way to let the misleaders get away with their misinformation.

I chuckle both when people threaten to put me on their ignore list and when they ask me to put them on my list. If they put me on their list then it just means that I get to correct their misinformation and they don't get to see it (unless they unignore the post). The last thing I would do is put somebody who is spouting misinformation on my ignore list, so asking me is fruitless. If they like the ignore feature so much they can put me on their list.

--Darin


I too have never put anyone on my "ignore" list. I don't see the point. Like you, my mission is to correct misinformation. A few times I've been told by the same person that they were putting me back on their ignore list. To which I responded "why did you take me back off of it to begin with"?   :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 02, 2017, 09:08:46 PM
I see Kris is dealing with newbies over on the other forum. I get that posting in pretty much any subforum over there can be intimidating, but before you decide to pick a fight or argument, it's probably best to know who is who over there. All the subforums have very intelligent and experienced posters who are professionals in that area of discussion. I saw one member ask Kris why his claims should be trusted (in regards to the 285ES not being able to map color/information on a 1:1 basis). I agree with Kris as far as color is concerned being mapped properly on a per pixel basis and is something I discussed in detail (with picture evidence) in my recent shootout write-up.

Kris is a professional in every sense of that word when it comes to him offering his opinion (or facts). Why wouldn't someone trust him? And again, this is something I pretty much only ever see in Sony threads, but I have to say that insecurities and some type of subconscious non-acceptance of issues comes into play here where these owners lash out at any negative criticisms towards the projector they own. It's gotten to the point where people are getting banned because of these insecure individuals. I guarantee that Bandyka getting banned has more to do with Sony-owner complaints against him than it does to the excuse they provided him when issuing the ban. I would say the same thing about how I was banned.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on November 03, 2017, 04:36:19 AM
What I really don´t understand is why they let @roxiedog13 (yes he has a user in here also) continue to spread lies and misinforamtion over there for so long and they keep banning users who corrects him. He is clearly just defending his beloved Sony brand and is one of the biggest Sony fanboys in there.

He also claims to have seen the RS600 and Sony VW675 side by side for 450 hours, did he alway put on both and did a side by side test for 200+ movies? 8)

He also says he calibrated both to the max of their potential, and he used a Spyder on the JVC with the Autocal and used a unprofiled Xrite meter for his Sony (maybe it was the spectro, but I don´t remember). And with this he says to have calibrated both to the max of their potential LOL. That is also an example of how he is spreading misinformation in almost every post. I am 100% sure none of his calibrations is even close to bringing out the best of any of these, and certainly not a Spyder calibrated JVC with no corrections after the Autocal.

What I also find strange is that he never admits he is wrong. I have been in many hard discussions at AVS during the years and I have learnt a lot from other members and I have also admitted I was wrong when I was. I was also under the impression that ANSI was the most important contrast, but after discussing the people like @darinp I have realised I was wrong and now know the most important is on/off contrast. I have also learnt a lot of other things in there, but now that forum is just a bad place to be and I only check in there once in a while to check out the posts of people I trust and see if I can learn something.

We really need to get this forum more busy and get more people to post in here, but we really don´t need people like @roxiedog13.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on November 03, 2017, 05:07:50 AM
What I really don´t understand is why they let @roxiedog13 (yes he has a user in here also) continue to spread lies and misinforamtion over there for so long and they keep banning users who corrects him. He is clearly just defending his beloved Sony brand and is one of the biggest Sony fanboys in there.

He also claims to have seen the RS600 and Sony VW675 side by side for 450 hours, did he alway put on both and did a side by side test for 200+ movies? 8)

He also says he calibrated both to the max of their potential, and he used a Spyder on the JVC with the Autocal and used a unprofiled Xrite meter for his Sony (maybe it was the spectro, but I don´t remember). And with this he says to have calibrated both to the max of their potential LOL. That is also an example of how he is spreading misinformation in almost every post. I am 100% sure none of his calibrations is even close to bringing out the best of any of these, and certainly not a Spyder calibrated JVC with no corrections after the Autocal.

What I also find strange is that he never admits he is wrong. I have been in many hard discussions at AVS during the years and I have learnt a lot from other members and I have also admitted I was wrong when I was. I was also under the impression that ANSI was the most important contrast, but after discussing the people like @darinp I have realised I was wrong and now know the most important is on/off contrast. I have also learnt a lot of other things in there, but now that forum is just a bad place to be and I only check in there once in a while to check out the posts of people I trust and see if I can learn something.

We really need to get this forum more busy and get more people to post in here, but we really don´t need people like @roxiedog13.

this was the EXACT thing with "ShadyJ" he spewed misinformation in an inflamatory way about sibwoofer products...and never was banned (well he is banned now...but it tool about 3 years) yest i would get infractions and banned  for "bumping" my for sale thread by answering a question....and calling an mbm equivalent to a "ghettoblaster" lmao
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on November 03, 2017, 09:33:34 AM
I see Kris is dealing with newbies over on the other forum. I get that posting in pretty much any subforum over there can be intimidating, but before you decide to pick a fight or argument, it's probably best to know who is who over there. All the subforums have very intelligent and experienced posters who are professionals in that area of discussion. I saw one member ask Kris why his claims should be trusted (in regards to the 285ES not being able to map color/information on a 1:1 basis). I agree with Kris as far as color is concerned being mapped properly on a per pixel basis and is something I discussed in detail (with picture evidence) in my recent shootout write-up.

Kris is a professional in every sense of that word when it comes to him offering his opinion (or facts). Why wouldn't someone trust him? ...

The newbie has over 500 posts since sep 2008.

And don't forget Mike was getting the same treatment. Mike and Craig have provided a lot of good information for many years. I bought my interim HW40ES from Mike and would happily buy (a JVC) from avscience again. Excellent service (a little brown nosing)!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on November 03, 2017, 09:40:23 AM
Well probably part of the problem is I doubt us grown ups are reporting the posts of the children over there.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on November 03, 2017, 09:40:42 AM
The newbie has over 500 posts since sep 2008.

And don't forget Mike was getting the same treatment. Mike and Craig have provided a lot of good information for many years. I bought my interim HW40ES from Mike and would happily buy (a JVC) from avscience again. Excellent service (a little brown nosing)!

Flattery will get you somewhere ! I'm lucky I haven't gotten in too much trouble over there, since I've been a member since 2003. I have blocked people - mostly to give myself a time out so I don't post a response that would get me banned when I'm ticked off. Also, never post drunk.  ;D 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on November 05, 2017, 06:56:58 PM
I glanced over this thread last night.

Kal over at Curt Palme explained it to me. He said Vertical Scam buys all of these forums for ad placement. They need page hits or impressions to make money. They could care less about the content. I think one of the reasons Scott and Mark are doing more stuff like reviews is to try to generate the traffic that Vertical Scam wants.

I have really cut back on the amount of time I spend in the pj forums. Ruined well pardon the pun ruined it for me. Along with some of the other culprits and their antics, I got tired of it. I am not sure how many posts of mine have been deleted both innocuous and inflammatory.

I was really reading and learning a lot over in the speaker forum. With Floyd Toole participating, it was quite informative.

Could this forum take off? Possibly, but it would need some work. Number one you guys need content. Whether how to guides, a resource database or reviews, the forum needs a reason for people to come over to look, read and then participate.

With Mike and Craig being commercial contractors, they could put up some how to guides from the simple to extravagant.

An idea I have always thought would generate a lot of traffic would be a resource database with pertinent data on pjs. Something along the lines of calibrated on/off cr, ANSI cr, lumens and sound level. If it was done by the same person in the same controlled environment, then it would be a nice reference that people could conveniently click to.

I have other ideas, but that is a good start.


I did see where AMartin was banned possibly. Maybe JVC hired him and it was a conflict of interest to be on AVS.:)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 05, 2017, 08:31:04 PM
I did see where AMartin was banned possibly. Maybe JVC hired him and it was a conflict of interest to be on AVS.:)

I would love to see the post that did it in for him. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on November 06, 2017, 04:19:17 AM
...

I have really cut back on the amount of time I spend in the pj forums. Ruined well pardon the pun ruined it for me. Along with some of the other culprits and their antics, I got tired of it. I am not sure how many posts of mine have been deleted both innocuous and inflammatory.

Me too. That's why I came here and spend more time on French, Polish and German websites!
...

With Mike and Craig being commercial contractors, they could put up some how to guides from the simple to extravagant.

An idea I have always thought would generate a lot of traffic would be a resource database with pertinent data on pjs. Something along the lines of calibrated on/off cr, ANSI cr, lumens and sound level. If it was done by the same person in the same controlled environment, then it would be a nice reference that people could conveniently click to.

Yes! They both could provide their settings and calibrations for an RS4500!
...

I did see where AMartin was banned possibly. Maybe JVC hired him and it was a conflict of interest to be on AVS.:)
 :) Good riddance :D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on November 06, 2017, 04:26:22 AM
It is good to see they are starting to ban people with an agenda at AVS, up until now they have just banned the people trying to correct the liars and misinfo spreaders.

If they could ban the annoying dog over there now I would be happy, but I don´t think it is going to happen. Does anybody know the reason for AMartins ban other than his agenda?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on November 06, 2017, 04:58:28 AM
I glanced over this thread last night.

Kal over at Curt Palme explained it to me. He said Vertical Scam buys all of these forums for ad placement. They need page hits or impressions to make money. They could care less about the content. I think one of the reasons Scott and Mark are doing more stuff like reviews is to try to generate the traffic that Vertical Scam wants.

I have really cut back on the amount of time I spend in the pj forums. Ruined well pardon the pun ruined it for me. Along with some of the other culprits and their antics, I got tired of it. I am not sure how many posts of mine have been deleted both innocuous and inflammatory.

I was really reading and learning a lot over in the speaker forum. With Floyd Toole participating, it was quite informative.

Could this forum take off? Possibly, but it would need some work. Number one you guys need content. Whether how to guides, a resource database or reviews, the forum needs a reason for people to come over to look, read and then participate.

With Mike and Craig being commercial contractors, they could put up some how to guides from the simple to extravagant.

An idea I have always thought would generate a lot of traffic would be a resource database with pertinent data on pjs. Something along the lines of calibrated on/off cr, ANSI cr, lumens and sound level. If it was done by the same person in the same controlled environment, then it would be a nice reference that people could conveniently click to.

I have other ideas, but that is a good start.


I did see where AMartin was banned possibly. Maybe JVC hired him and it was a conflict of interest to be on AVS.:)

i owuld love to offer to be an official Bluray/4k UHD reviewer for this site :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on November 06, 2017, 05:01:19 AM
I have really cut back on the amount of time I spend in the pj forums. Ruined well pardon the pun ruined it for me. Along with some of the other culprits and their antics, I got tired of it. I am not sure how many posts of mine have been deleted both innocuous and inflammatory.

It's interesting though to see all the DLP folks over there living in a time warp.  They keep quoting the issues about LCoS machines that were true 10 years ago in the heyday of DLP, but which are pretty much obsolete.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on November 06, 2017, 08:30:07 AM
With Mike and Craig being commercial contractors, they could put up some how to guides from the simple to extravagant.

An idea I have always thought would generate a lot of traffic would be a resource database with pertinent data on pjs. Something along the lines of calibrated on/off cr, ANSI cr, lumens and sound level. If it was done by the same person in the same controlled environment, then it would be a nice reference that people could conveniently click to.

Yes! They both could provide their settings and calibrations for an RS4500!

Since I had my RS4500 calibrated by Jeff / Accucal, my settings would be pretty meaningless. This is a projector that needs calibration to get the best out of it. And lets face it - $500.00 for calibration is a drop in the bucket for a projector at this price level.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on November 06, 2017, 08:59:44 AM
i owuld love to offer to be an official Bluray/4k UHD reviewer for this site :)

Let me see what we can do. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Locksley on November 06, 2017, 09:56:40 AM
Right. So after reading this thread and not seeing any point in reading posts at AVSForum I decided to register here.

Now I just bought a 260ES (Sony 285ES) and decided to live with it rather than wait 5 or more years for something positiv to happen, which it very well might not.

I think I can squeeze out a small percentage of HDR, small screen and projector close. I hope some good knowledge will come my way being a member of this forum.

Isn't it odd that when I put on a HDR movie it is often quite dim if I don't adjust contrast and such? Read at LightSpace that SMPTE standard for HDR is that the same eggwhite is 100IRE no matter if it is HDR or SDR signal? So why are some UHD so much dimmer?

And I've tried to get info on what the 'Contrast Enhancer' really does, it is a quick way to make it look better but I think I see some crushing of the dark parts...

Seems like getting a good UHD picture that conforms to some standards is going to be really hard...
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on November 06, 2017, 10:49:56 AM
Right. So after reading this thread and not seeing any point in reading posts at AVSForum I decided to register here.

Now I just bought a 260ES (Sony 285ES) and decided to live with it rather than wait 5 or more years for something positiv to happen, which it very well might not.

I think I can squeeze out a small percentage of HDR, small screen and projector close. I hope some good knowledge will come my way being a member of this forum.

Isn't it odd that when I put on a HDR movie it is often quite dim if I don't adjust contrast and such? Read at LightSpace that SMPTE standard for HDR is that the same eggwhite is 100IRE no matter if it is HDR or SDR signal? So why are some UHD so much dimmer?

And I've tried to get info on what the 'Contrast Enhancer' really does, it is a quick way to make it look better but I think I see some crushing of the dark parts...

Seems like getting a good UHD picture that conforms to some standards is going to be really hard...

Move this discussion to here - https://discuss.avscience.com/?topic=1369.0  and let's see what we can do to help.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 06, 2017, 02:27:13 PM
Right. So after reading this thread and not seeing any point in reading posts at AVSForum I decided to register here.

Now I just bought a 260ES (Sony 285ES) and decided to live with it rather than wait 5 or more years for something positiv to happen, which it very well might not.

I think I can squeeze out a small percentage of HDR, small screen and projector close. I hope some good knowledge will come my way being a member of this forum.

Isn't it odd that when I put on a HDR movie it is often quite dim if I don't adjust contrast and such? Read at LightSpace that SMPTE standard for HDR is that the same eggwhite is 100IRE no matter if it is HDR or SDR signal? So why are some UHD so much dimmer?

And I've tried to get info on what the 'Contrast Enhancer' really does, it is a quick way to make it look better but I think I see some crushing of the dark parts...

Seems like getting a good UHD picture that conforms to some standards is going to be really hard...

Head over to the thread Craig linked to above and we'll see if we can troubleshoot with you to figure out what's going on.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on November 06, 2017, 03:56:01 PM
Since I had my RS4500 calibrated by Jeff / Accucal, my settings would be pretty meaningless. This is a projector that needs calibration to get the best out of it. And lets face it - $500.00 for calibration is a drop in the bucket for a projector at this price level.

Rob,
As Craig said above, I am not sure his settings would be that helpful. Actually I was thinking of something simple like this.
https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001-list.html

A simple little database or chart with the significant info that would be easy to find in a google search. It would be something that people would refer back to a lot and also stop in and check out the other content.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on November 06, 2017, 04:23:28 PM
Rob,
As Craig said above, I am not sure his settings would be that helpful. Actually I was thinking of something simple like this.
https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001-list.html

A simple little database or chart with the significant info that would be easy to find in a google search. It would be something that people would refer back to a lot and also stop in and check out the other content.

I'll put my basic settings in a thread.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Locksley on November 07, 2017, 02:56:42 AM
Move this discussion to here - https://discuss.avscience.com/?topic=1369.0  and let's see what we can do to help.
Will do. Anyways, Andreas21 I really hope you don't stop posting in forums as you wrote, it is just finding the forum that fits you.

It is good to be considerate but I can agree in general with people who say p.c. culture is destroying sensibilitets and humor everywhere.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 16, 2017, 09:56:41 PM
This is too good to be lost forever (the posts were deleted):

Click to enlarge
(https://i.imgur.com/IS3pfzc.png)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on November 17, 2017, 05:24:28 AM
That's some funny stuff right there!  ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on November 17, 2017, 08:47:54 AM
Wow - Good catch that it was A Martin ! Javs gets detective of the month award ! I wondered why there were so many deleted posts over there. Thanks Dylan for making my morning entertaining !  ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on November 18, 2017, 02:50:56 PM
As Popeye would say, "I Yam what I Yam".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzHmunZxJeM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzHmunZxJeM)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 04, 2017, 07:31:44 AM
Hello everyone.  Trying to migrate over to this more sane forum than the other.  I received a "infraction" for stating the Roxie was acting like a petulant child the way he was responding to people providing contradictory information about what he spouts off about the RS4500 as gospel. 

Appears I have been locked out of that thread as well.  I assume this guy goes to the mods over there asking for disciplinary action against people whom challenge his actions?  Truly comical!!! 

Glad I find you guys over here!   
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 04, 2017, 09:15:18 AM
Hello everyone.  Trying to migrate over to this more sane forum than the other.  I received a "infraction" for stating the Roxie was acting like a petulant child the way he was responding to people providing contradictory information about what he spouts off about the RS4500 as gospel. 

Appears I have been locked out of that thread as well.  I assume this guy goes to the mods over there asking for disciplinary action against people whom challenge his actions?  Truly comical!!! 

Glad I find you guys over here!   

That is total BS, but I wouldn't put it past him. I agreed with your post 100%. I know what he's going to say before he even says it. Anyway, welcome !
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on December 04, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Roxie appears to be friends with the mods.  AVS is also heavily pushing/advertising Sony products almost weekly it seems as well.  I don't see JVC ads.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 04, 2017, 09:37:15 AM
The funny part is not one JVC owner has said anything bad about the 885es at all.    I personally as I am sure all of you do as well hope that it's a fabulous projector b/c the more quality options the better for everyone in this as a hobby or making a living.  I was a SONY owner and now I am a JVC owner and I will never be loyal to one brand over the other, only what suits my needs best given the options present.  My Sony 665es served me well however there were many things that I didn't like about it.  I had horrible focus uniformity, poor pixel alignment and after 500 hours a noticeable lamp flicker that wouldn't go away.   My DI locked up and had to be replaced and the lens position memory became deficient to the point that I had to over correct in the last direction of adjustment b/c once saved to memory and recalled it would shift about a 1" past were you set it.  Sony came out to look at it and acknowledged it as faulty however told me that it could not be fixed under warranty b/c int was "within" the tolerances set forth but Sony.  My dealer made it right for me be giving me a credit, but that left a bad taste in my mouth.   When it came time to move to a laser projector I was open to anything and now after doing my own research I own the RS4500 and am thrilled to death so far!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 04, 2017, 09:45:12 AM
Hello everyone.  Trying to migrate over to this more sane forum than the other.  I received a "infraction" for stating the Roxie was acting like a petulant child the way he was responding to people providing contradictory information about what he spouts off about the RS4500 as gospel. 

Appears I have been locked out of that thread as well.  I assume this guy goes to the mods over there asking for disciplinary action against people whom challenge his actions?  Truly comical!!! 

Glad I find you guys over here!   

Welcome to our island of misfit forum posters!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 04, 2017, 09:49:04 AM
The funny part is not one JVC owner has said anything bad about the 885es at all.    I personally as I am sure all of you do as well hope that it's a fabulous projector b/c the more quality options the better for everyone in this as a hobby or making a living.  I was a SONY owner and now I am a JVC owner and I will never be loyal to one brand over the other, only what suits my needs best given the options present.  My Sony 665es served me well however there were many things that I didn't like about it.  I had horrible focus uniformity, poor pixel alignment and after 500 hours a noticeable lamp flicker that wouldn't go away.   My DI locked up and had to be replaced and the lens position memory became deficient to the point that I had to over correct in the last direction of adjustment b/c once saved to memory and recalled it would shift about a 1" past were you set it.  Sony came out to look at it and acknowledged it as faulty however told me that it could not be fixed under warranty b/c int was "within" the tolerances set forth but Sony.  My dealer made it right for me be giving me a credit, but that left a bad taste in my mouth.   When it came time to move to a laser projector I was open to anything and now after doing my own research I own the RS4500 and am thrilled to death so far!

I was talking to Javs last night via email and I told him that the photos posted by Arrow of the 885ES look unbelievably good. I even compared them to the source frame and the 885ES looks remarkably close to the source. Supposedly the 885ES has "new" SXRD panels, though I've only heard this unofficially, but if that's true they may have fixed some of the issues I've had with SXRD projectors in the past. I would gladly own an 885ES if it indeed has new SXRD panels. It was the only thing holding back SXRD before this IMO.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 04, 2017, 09:57:39 AM
I have seen the 885 and it is an impressive machine, I highly doubt it has new panels as Sony would have advertised it hard if it had. But if it has it might be good news in the degradation/banding/pozterisation departement. 8)

Contrast wise the 885 is not even close to the JVCs and dark scenes look quite washed out compared to a RS540/640 other than that it is a very good machine, but it is highly overprised for its performance here in Norway and the same goes in the uS I think. Laser alone is not worth it...
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 04, 2017, 10:12:54 AM
I have seen the 885 and it is an impressive machine, I highly doubt it has new panels as Sony would have advertised it hard if it had. But if it has it might be good news in the degradation/banding/pozterisation departement. 8)

Contrast wise the 885 is not even close to the JVCs and dark scenes look quite washed out compared to a RS540/640 other than that it is a very good machine, but it is highly overprised for its performance here in Norway and the same goes in the uS I think. Laser alone is not worth it...

The price difference here in the US is very large. The 885ES is more than 3 times more expensive than the RS640. $8,000 vs $25,000. The $4000 RS440 has essentially the same performance metrics that the 885ES has. Around 1700 calibrated lumens, ~18000:1 max brightness contrast (though the RS440 has more dynamic contrast), 90% P3 coverage, ANSI contrast is 325:1 on the JVC and 360:1 on the 885ES, very similar lens quality (though the JVC has been proven to be more reliable), and 18Gbps HDMI ports with similar video processing options. It's just hard for me to see the value in a $25000 885ES when the $4000 RS440 has the same performance with the only shortcoming being that it has eshift. But for me, it's always been difficult to see obvious differences from my seated position between eshift and 4K SXRD. I honestly think that the posterization and banding issue is what's holding SXRD back from achieving more apparent resolution from a seated distance. This is why I want Sony to fix this issue so badly. More competition is a good thing. And for me these Sony's aren't competitive until this issue is fixed, especially when the one thing these Sony's have over most JVC projectors (native 4K panels) is being held back.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 04, 2017, 10:15:41 AM
I was talking to Javs last night via email and I told him that the photos posted by Arrow of the 885ES look unbelievably good. I even compared them to the source frame and the 885ES looks remarkably close to the source. Supposedly the 885ES has "new" SXRD panels, though I've only heard this unofficially, but if that's true they may have fixed some of the issues I've had with SXRD projectors in the past. I would gladly own an 885ES if it indeed has new SXRD panels. It was the only thing holding back SXRD before this IMO.

Yes I agree but there definitely looks to be some red push in the skin tones and the contrast looks poor compared to the JVC pictures.  However the detail and sharpness looks really good and you can see the increase in shadow detail clearly.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Peter Parker on December 04, 2017, 10:45:51 AM
I saw the 885 (760 here in the UK) and other than black level/contrast it looked better than the mid level JVC and Epson LS10500 we were comparing (all calibrated and often on split screen for direct comparisons). We used the Oblivion interrogation scene to test the DL/DI of the three pjs and the Sony didn't do anything unusual at all, whereas the Epson and JVC washed out Cruise's face for a moment when the scene changed back from Freeman. We also saw the custom uploaded HDR curves on both Sony and JVC so both looked much the same with the same amount of flexibility there as far as I could tell. The Sony is of course much brighter (only on a 3m wide scope screen using the zoom method), and even with the laser at minimum was still pretty bright (we didn't measure it though).

With previous 4K Sony's I'd occasionally see some scaling/stepping artefacts but saw none this time. The alignment in the service menu had been turned off so no obvious banding was visible. The JVC still has some image noise and the difference between it and the two laser based pjs was obvious when sat 2.4m back from the 3m screen (approx 2xIH).

JVC still had the best contrast and black levels of course.

No idea if the panel degradation issue still exists or not on the Sony, but this pj looked pretty darn good and overall better than both the Epson and JVC, which I guess it should considering the price difference (still around 2.5x more here in the UK than the other two pjs).

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 04, 2017, 11:34:17 AM
I was talking to Javs last night via email and I told him that the photos posted by Arrow of the 885ES look unbelievably good. I even compared them to the source frame and the 885ES looks remarkably close to the source. Supposedly the 885ES has "new" SXRD panels, though I've only heard this unofficially, but if that's true they may have fixed some of the issues I've had with SXRD projectors in the past. I would gladly own an 885ES if it indeed has new SXRD panels. It was the only thing holding back SXRD before this IMO.

Sony US sales manager told me all of the 4K Sony projectors used the same panels, so I do not think they are new panels. I agree that the pictures look very good and I walked away from the Sony demo AT CEDIA thinking Sony had a very good projector coming out.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 04, 2017, 01:25:18 PM
I saw the 885 (760 here in the UK) and other than black level/contrast it looked better than the mid level JVC and Epson LS10500 we were comparing (all calibrated and often on split screen for direct comparisons). We used the Oblivion interrogation scene to test the DL/DI of the three pjs and the Sony didn't do anything unusual at all, whereas the Epson and JVC washed out Cruise's face for a moment when the scene changed back from Freeman. We also saw the custom uploaded HDR curves on both Sony and JVC so both looked much the same with the same amount of flexibility there as far as I could tell. The Sony is of course much brighter (only on a 3m wide scope screen using the zoom method), and even with the laser at minimum was still pretty bright (we didn't measure it though).

With previous 4K Sony's I'd occasionally see some scaling/stepping artefacts but saw none this time. The alignment in the service menu had been turned off so no obvious banding was visible. The JVC still has some image noise and the difference between it and the two laser based pjs was obvious when sat 2.4m back from the 3m screen (approx 2xIH).

JVC still had the best contrast and black levels of course.

No idea if the panel degradation issue still exists or not on the Sony, but this pj looked pretty darn good and overall better than both the Epson and JVC, which I guess it should considering the price difference (still around 2.5x more here in the UK than the other two pjs).



Thanks for your thoughts. It's good to hear Sony is making some steps forward. Though I would say the price of the 885/760ES in the UK seems to be more reasonable than it is here in the US. I suspect if sales don't meet expectations we may see a price drop early next year. I know there have been many people vocal about the price difference. It's almost $10000 cheaper in Europe to buy this projector.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 04, 2017, 01:39:43 PM
Thanks for your thoughts. It's good to hear Sony is making some steps forward. Though I would say the price of the 885/760ES in the UK seems to be more reasonable than it is here in the US. I suspect if sales don't meet expectations we may see a price drop early next year. I know there have been many people vocal about the price difference. It's almost $10000 cheaper in Europe to buy this projector.

When has Sony ever dropped the price of a high end model like that ? I think they will sell quite a few - it's a great projector, and fits in between the VW385 and JVC eshift models, and the RS4500.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 04, 2017, 01:43:11 PM
When has Sony ever dropped the price of a high end model like that ? I think they will sell quite a few - it's a great projector, and fits in between the VW385 and JVC eshift models, and the RS4500.

Yeah,  that's why I said IF sales don't meet expectations they'd drop the price. They did that on the previous 3xx model last year because it want selling well. But you're saying the 885ES is selling well so far?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 04, 2017, 02:36:21 PM
Yeah,  that's why I said IF sales don't meet expectations they'd drop the price. They did that on the previous 3xx model last year because it want selling well. But you're saying the 885ES is selling well so far?

That model didn't sell because it was the striped down model that competed badly against cheaper projectors. I'd say the VW885 is in a class nearly by itself, at least at it's price point.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 04, 2017, 03:02:31 PM
That model didn't sell because it was the striped down model that competed badly against cheaper projectors. I'd say the VW885 is in a class nearly by itself, at least at it's price point.

I think that's a matter of how you look at the 885ES. Personally, I think that it's only in a league of it's own if a laser light source is something you're after. I'd argue that you can get similar overall image quality at a far less cost if laser isn't important to you.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 04, 2017, 03:23:40 PM
The price difference here in the US is very large. The 885ES is more than 3 times more expensive than the RS640. $8,000 vs $25,000. The $4000 RS440 has essentially the same performance metrics that the 885ES has. Around 1700 calibrated lumens, ~18000:1 max brightness contrast (though the RS440 has more dynamic contrast), 90% P3 coverage, ANSI contrast is 325:1 on the JVC and 360:1 on the 885ES, very similar lens quality (though the JVC has been proven to be more reliable), and 18Gbps HDMI ports with similar video processing options. It's just hard for me to see the value in a $25000 885ES when the $4000 RS440 has the same performance with the only shortcoming being that it has eshift. But for me, it's always been difficult to see obvious differences from my seated position between eshift and 4K SXRD. I honestly think that the posterization and banding issue is what's holding SXRD back from achieving more apparent resolution from a seated distance. This is why I want Sony to fix this issue so badly. More competition is a good thing. And for me these Sony's aren't competitive until this issue is fixed, especially when the one thing these Sony's have over most JVC projectors (native 4K panels) is being held back.

I saw banding and posterization when I saw the 885 a while back so I doubt it has new panels, the unit I saw was a pre prod unit.

The 885 (760) is almost double the price of a RS640 here in Norway and I still think it is stupidly overpriced when you compare the picture quality. For me laser is not worth that amount of money alone. If it had 3000+ lumens it would be a more "fair" price. But to me no projector is worth the silly amount of money they charge for a 4K laser unit today. I rather spend that amount of money upgrading my coming trackday car.  8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 04, 2017, 04:43:19 PM
I think that's a matter of how you look at the 885ES. Personally, I think that it's only in a league of it's own if a laser light source is something you're after. I'd argue that you can get similar overall image quality at a far less cost if laser isn't important to you.

That could be one way of looking at it. I myself am enjoying 4K and laser.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 04, 2017, 04:45:15 PM
I saw banding and posterization when I saw the 885 a while back so I doubt it has new panels, the unit I saw was a pre prod unit.

The 885 (760) is almost double the price of a RS640 here in Noway and I still think it is stupidly overpriced when you compare the picture quality. For me laser is not worth that amount of money alone. If it had 3000+ lumens it would be a more "fair" price. But to me no projector is worth the silly amount of money they charge for a 4K laser unit today. I rather spend that amount of money upgrading my coming trackday car.  8)

It's all about choices. My RS4500 is worth more than my 2007 350Z, but I'm more into home theater than cars !
 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on December 04, 2017, 05:28:03 PM
I saw banding and posterization when I saw the 885 a while back so I doubt it has new panels, the unit I saw was a pre prod unit.

The 885 (760) is almost double the price of a RS640 here in Noway and I still think it is stupidly overpriced when you compare the picture quality. For me laser is not worth that amount of money alone. If it had 3000+ lumens it would be a more "fair" price. But to me no projector is worth the silly amount of money they charge for a 4K laser unit today. I rather spend that amount of money upgrading my coming trackday car.  8)

Track day car???  Do tell.   ;)  8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 04, 2017, 05:48:47 PM
That could be one way of looking at it. I myself am enjoying 4K and laser.

Hahaha lucky you.  8) Hopefully one day in the near future I'll have both myself. I'm excited to see what Epson and JVC have to offer in 2018 and 2019. I'm hoping they can match Sony in the under $15,000 market with native 4K projectors.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on December 04, 2017, 08:19:13 PM
This is all actually making my blood boil the damned idiocy we have on the other forum.

Dumb as a fence post.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on December 04, 2017, 08:47:43 PM
Are Roxie and Ruined one in the same? Talk about two people who have single handedly removed any desire for me to look at the pj forums. >:(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 04, 2017, 09:13:41 PM
This is all actually making my blood boil the damned idiocy we have on the other forum.

Dumb as a fence post.

It's funny that he's trying to explain to you what's in the photos that YOU shot. For me at least, it's easy to see Arrow has Reality Creation cranked way up. You can see all the ringing artifacts (from excessive sharpening) around all the asain characters in this photo:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/125493

This photo also shouts RC is cranked up. Notice how dramatized the contrast is in the fabric's stitching on his jacket/collar. It's WAY sharper than the source actually is. Huge sign RC is cranked up, the projector can't be sharper than the source unless sharpening is engaged:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/125417

These photos should be taken with a huge grain of salt. I'm not saying the 885ES doesn't look good in these shots, but I didn't really take a close look at them until late last night and realized what was going on. It wasn't until I took a look at the source on my PC that I saw that the 885ES had to have RC way up.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 05, 2017, 01:42:40 AM
Track day car???  Do tell.   ;)  8)

Not that exciting it is only a BMW M2 and if I have the money I will modify it some. The M2 is quite a bit more expensive in Norway than the US, here it is 100000$. 8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 05, 2017, 01:47:21 AM
It's funny that he's trying to explain to you what's in the photos that YOU shot. For me at least, it's easy to see Arrow has Reality Creation cranked way up. You can see all the ringing artifacts (from excessive sharpening) around all the asain characters in this photo:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/125493

This photo also shouts RC is cranked up. Notice how dramatized the contrast is in the fabric's stitching on his jacket/collar. It's WAY sharper than the source actually is. Huge sign RC is cranked up, the projector can't be sharper than the source unless sharpening is engaged:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/125417

These photos should be taken with a huge grain of salt. I'm not saying the 885ES doesn't look good in these shots, but I didn't really take a close look at them until late last night and realized what was going on. It wasn't until I took a look at the source on my PC that I saw that the 885ES had to have RC way up.

Yes, when looking closer at the Sony pictures they look way overcooked, they actually do not look nice at all. ArrowAV has alot to learn in my opinion.

Roxiedog13 is just showing how big of a Sony fanboy he is with his posts in that tread and drawing conclusions from screenshots taken at different locations and with different gear is simply as stupid as he is. Drawing conclusions on blackcrush or white clipping just shows his ignorance as no camera can capture what is on screen 100%. The other forum is becoming a playground for ignorant fanboys with little to no experience in how to do this.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on December 05, 2017, 04:40:43 AM
That could be one way of looking at it. I myself am enjoying 4K and laser.

Yeah, but your RS4500 is in a class by itself brightness wise.  I think we'd all enjoy Laser and native 4K, but if projector manufacturers continue this 100% mark up for laser over a comparable lamp model, well I think they're priced me out of the market :(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on December 05, 2017, 04:44:04 AM
Are Roxie and Ruined one in the same? Talk about two people who have single handedly removed any desire for me to look at the pj forums. >:(

I really think Ruined works for Optoma, or maybe Coretronic.  I used to think he was just a DLP fanboy, but lately it's becoming clear it's more focused than that.  He'll rip on Acer to make the Optoma look better, he comes up with lots of, not widely available, Coretronic info.

The most frustrating part though, is that the forum over there doesn't seem to recognize those folks for what they are.  They don't say anything about these folks ridiculous posts but they'll whine about people who challenge them if that challenge doesn't put their preferred (or owned) machine in a good light.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 05, 2017, 04:51:04 AM
It's all about choices. My RS4500 is worth more than my 2007 350Z, but I'm more into home theater than cars !

Me too, but here in Norway the RS4500 is 50000 USD and even if you get a good discount it is more than the 35000 it is in the US and I highly doubt you payed 35000 for yours...  8)

I would like a RS4500, but I am not willing to pay what they charge here in Norway.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 05, 2017, 04:51:49 AM
Thanks for your thoughts. It's good to hear Sony is making some steps forward. Though I would say the price of the 885/760ES in the UK seems to be more reasonable than it is here in the US. I suspect if sales don't meet expectations we may see a price drop early next year. I know there have been many people vocal about the price difference. It's almost $10000 cheaper in Europe to buy this projector.

I was considering it and the RS4500 until the specs and pricing were released.  I was hoping for 2500 lumens and upgraded lens and when I saw that neither of those were included and then US pricing to boot it completely sealed the deal for me.  Thank you Sony you made 1 new and very happy JVC owner! :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 05, 2017, 04:53:22 AM
Me too, but here in Norway the RS4500 is 50000 USD and even if you get a good discount it is more than the 35000 it is in the US and I highly doubt you payed 35000 for yours...  8)

I would like a RS4500, but I am not willing to pay what they charge here in Norway.

That is unfortunate  :-X 50k is a lot of money. 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on December 05, 2017, 07:16:26 AM
I was considering it and the RS4500 until the specs and pricing were released.  I was hoping for 2500 lumens and upgraded lens and when I saw that neither of those were included and then US pricing to boot it completely sealed the deal for me.  Thank you Sony you made 1 new and very happy JVC owner! :)

That seemed to be th consensus at Cedia. At the Sony shootout, a lot of people including Arrow thought that the JVC was being handcuffed but still looked better. The price difference is not that great all things considered in the US.


On another note, it looks like Scaremax was banned. I guess the bland is leading the charge to get him re instated. Funny thing is I thought he had toned down his posts or am I mistaken?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 05, 2017, 07:24:11 AM
That seemed to be th consensus at Cedia. At the Sony shootout, a lot of people including Arrow thought that the JVC was being handcuffed but still looked better. The price difference is not that great all things considered in the US.


On another note, it looks like Scaremax was banned. I guess the bland is leading the charge to get him re instated. Funny thing is I thought he had toned down his posts or am I mistaken?

Now granted photos are not anything to go upon, but I remember seeing photos somewhere from the Sony shootout at Cedia and the comments were about how the Sony fared well, which I can totally believe considering it was conducted by Sony.  I also expect the 885 to be a fine unit and it fits the market very well in Europe.  Not so well here, but it still fills a void as it offers a laser engine and a smaller chassis more suitable for ceiling mounting.

 Back to the pictures, I remember seeing one with both screens in the view and I clearly saw that the JVC looked brighter more than anything and the blacks looked better too. 

I have one foot in the grave over at that other forum and just laid into Roxie, but I just can't believe how that guy is able to control the dialogue in a forum so clearly and seems to have free reign to do so?   
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 05, 2017, 10:26:43 AM
Now granted photos are not anything to go upon, but I remember seeing photos somewhere from the Sony shootout at Cedia and the comments were about how the Sony fared well, which I can totally believe considering it was conducted by Sony.  I also expect the 885 to be a fine unit and it fits the market very well in Europe.  Not so well here, but it still fills a void as it offers a laser engine and a smaller chassis more suitable for ceiling mounting.

 Back to the pictures, I remember seeing one with both screens in the view and I clearly saw that the JVC looked brighter more than anything and the blacks looked better too. 

I have one foot in the grave over at that other forum and just laid into Roxie, but I just can't believe how that guy is able to control the dialogue in a forum so clearly and seems to have free reign to do so?

I saw that. it's great to be excited about a new projector, but he sure is the definition of the term " fan boy ". It would help if he actually had one or had even seen one - ha !  :-[ 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 05, 2017, 11:43:42 AM
I saw that. it's great to be excited about a new projector, but he sure is the definition of the term " fan boy ". It would help if he actually had one or had even seen one - ha !  :-[

Seriously the comment he made that completely set me off was how he can't wait until the 885es is compared to the RS4500 and the 5000es, "I'll leave it at that".   True fanboy comment since he has never seen any of those projectors in person.   Looks he removed that post too.    >:(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 05, 2017, 01:00:41 PM
Seriously the comment he made that completely set me off was how he can't wait until the 885es is compared to the RS4500 and the 5000es, "I'll leave it at that".   True fanboy comment since he has never seen any of those projectors in person.   Looks he removed that post too.    >:(

It's not like they are all designed for the same screen size / user / pocket book. There's a projector for everyone out there, and none of them are perfect, but all throw a very good image. But we know why he hates JVC - they purposely brought out a new improved model right after he bought his RS600 just to mess with him .  ;D  Unfortunately 4K and HDR developments have caused more confusion / problems / upset consumers than any other format change than I've ever seen ( all brands included ) since getting into home theater in 2003.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 05, 2017, 01:31:44 PM
The only way to beat Roxie is to play him at his own game. You need to report posts. Enough complaints will get him banned. He ruins threads by talking complete nonsense and it gets people upset and they lash out with ad hominem posts and they are the unfortunate ones who get banned.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on December 05, 2017, 03:18:10 PM
There's been A LOT of misinformation over there lately.  Just earlier some dealer was claiming JVC has issues with lamps and, of course, his customers prefer Sony.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 05, 2017, 06:04:40 PM
There's been A LOT of misinformation over there lately.  Just earlier some dealer was claiming JVC has issues with lamps and, of course, his customers prefer Sony.

Yeah, I could not let that one go. I typed out one response, read it twice, then edited it to tone it down. Been having to do that a lot lately.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 06, 2017, 12:17:49 AM
Yeah, I could not let that one go. I typed out one response, read it twice, then edited it to tone it down. Been having to do that a lot lately.


You're smarter than me Mike. I couldn't hold back most of the time. I will say that getting banned has actually led to less stress for me. I've also had more time to explore other areas of interest. I'm getting really into high end 2-channel audio. The problem with audio is that everything seems to be more subjective on how things perform. I mean, yes, there are standards in audio too but they aren't used as strictly as video standards are. Plus there's a lot of snake oil claims/products out there that need to be investigated.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on December 06, 2017, 06:16:33 AM
You're smarter than me Mike. I couldn't hold back most of the time. I will say that getting banned has actually led to less stress for me. I've also had more time to explore other areas of interest. I'm getting really into high end 2-channel audio. The problem with audio is that everything seems to be more subjective on how things perform. I mean, yes, there are standards in audio too but they aren't used as strictly as video standards are. Plus there's a lot of snake oil claims/products out there that need to be investigated.

Same for me. Not reading the crap has been calming. Now, I reading Roxie and Runt again. Honestly, Roxie isn't that bad and is more annoying. Runt gets under my skin with his amount of misinformation merry go round. I am not sure why Javs is going to the trouble. I gave up because no one in that thread seemed to care. It kind of reminds me of bodybuilding forums with what is referred to as Bro Science.
 
Quote
Word of mouth knowledge passed off as fact, primarily among bodybuilders + weightlifters. Generally spouted most by guys who have used loads of steroids and are huge, have no idea what is happening to their bodies and then share that same cluelessness with others who make the false assumption that their experience means that they have knowledge.

I guess that would make it the AVBS forum. :)

As for 2 channel audio, good luck. Do you know how many average to inadequate audio systems I heard at Cedia?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: TWISM on December 06, 2017, 07:43:27 AM
What I truly can not get over is how misinformation or incorrect information is treated like gospel. In the 885ES thread they talk about pictures being amazing, then we find out the gamma is crap, now there is talk about DCI coverage and if someone says its 99% people jump on board to praise Sony and nobody truly takes time to vet out the information.

I was interested in the 885ES, mainly as I can get it for cost which makes the price a bit easier to swallow, but I think the only real benefit over my RS640 would be the laser.

I am going to hold off and see what the future brings, the hard part is, you have to weed through so much mis-information just to find the truth. I value what others bring, but I was a bit taken back that the main machine being used for the reporting initially had great focus, then it had gamma droop, now all of a sudden its been dropped, its out of focus and its defective? It almost feels like it's being used as an excuse for poor performance of that unit. I could be wrong, but again, it hard to follow.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 06, 2017, 08:02:24 AM
What I truly can not get over is how misinformation or incorrect information is treated like gospel. In the 885ES thread they talk about pictures being amazing, then we find out the gamma is crap, now there is talk about DCI coverage and if someone says its 99% people jump on board to praise Sony and nobody truly takes time to vet out the information.

I was interested in the 885ES, mainly as I can get it for cost which makes the price a bit easier to swallow, but I think the only real benefit over my RS640 would be the laser.

I am going to hold off and see what the future brings, the hard part is, you have to weed through so much mis-information just to find the truth. I value what others bring, but I was a bit taken back that the main machine being used for the reporting initially had great focus, then it had gamma droop, now all of a sudden its been dropped, its out of focus and its defective? It almost feels like it's being used as an excuse for poor performance of that unit. I could be wrong, but again, it hard to follow.

I agree 100% and the things I here coming out of Ekki's camp has me starting to think that something is going on over there in Germany  :-\
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 06, 2017, 08:20:24 AM
What I truly can not get over is how misinformation or incorrect information is treated like gospel. In the 885ES thread they talk about pictures being amazing, then we find out the gamma is crap, now there is talk about DCI coverage and if someone says its 99% people jump on board to praise Sony and nobody truly takes time to vet out the information.

I was interested in the 885ES, mainly as I can get it for cost which makes the price a bit easier to swallow, but I think the only real benefit over my RS640 would be the laser.

I am going to hold off and see what the future brings, the hard part is, you have to weed through so much mis-information just to find the truth. I value what others bring, but I was a bit taken back that the main machine being used for the reporting initially had great focus, then it had gamma droop, now all of a sudden its been dropped, its out of focus and its defective? It almost feels like it's being used as an excuse for poor performance of that unit. I could be wrong, but again, it hard to follow.

I thought Nigel had 5 different VW885's there ?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 06, 2017, 08:23:23 AM
In fact this morning Nigel said " Having now had opportuntity to evaluate 5 units, aside from a defective unit, what I am finding is that the lens and optics are very good. ". So those aren't all the same projectors.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: TWISM on December 06, 2017, 08:29:20 AM
I thought Nigel had 5 different VW885's there ?

Which is why I said I could be wrong, its just not clear which unit he is measuring at the time.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on December 06, 2017, 09:06:36 AM
\=I'm getting really into high end 2-channel audio. The problem with audio is that everything seems to be more subjective on how things perform. I mean, yes, there are standards in audio too but they aren't used as strictly as video standards are. Plus there's a lot of snake oil claims/products out there that need to be investigated.

Surely you're not calling this snake oil!

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina60.htm

 8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on December 06, 2017, 09:12:56 AM
Same for me. Not reading the crap has been calming. Now, I reading Roxie and Runt again.

Which I why I put Roxie on my ignore list.   I should really put "Runt" on it again.  While there's a case to be made for correcting misinformation.  We're talking about entertainment products here, and if people don't want to seek the truth (not saying we hold/own the truth, but I think we all at least seek it), what's the point in trying to argue.

Quote
Runt gets under my skin with his amount of misinformation merry go round. I am not sure why Javs is going to the trouble. I gave up because no one in that thread seemed to care.

Yeah, I sort of applaud him, but that's why I got out.  It's really sort of amazing reading that.  In the one breath Runt will claim that it's the composite image that matters (sequential color), and in the very next say each individual part counts (4.15 million * 2).  If people can't see, or don't care about the conflict just there, well, you can't make people want to learn.

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 06, 2017, 09:28:23 AM
You're smarter than me Mike. I couldn't hold back most of the time. I will say that getting banned has actually led to less stress for me. I've also had more time to explore other areas of interest. I'm getting really into high end 2-channel audio. The problem with audio is that everything seems to be more subjective on how things perform. I mean, yes, there are standards in audio too but they aren't used as strictly as video standards are. Plus there's a lot of snake oil claims/products out there that need to be investigated.

just don't start posting pictures of your new cable lifters. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 06, 2017, 09:33:56 AM
I thought Nigel had 5 different VW885's there ?

I think he mentioned that two of them are going back due to issues. It seems Sony has spent their QC money on making the lens closer to spec, but forgot about the rest of the projector.  :P
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 06, 2017, 09:36:55 AM
I agree 100% and the things I here coming out of Ekki's camp has me starting to think that something is going on over there in Germany  :-\

Go read his review on the VW600, regarding the lens. Then read the 665 review and the 675 review and see what he says about the lens. All three projectors use the same exact lens. Zero change was made to the lens for those three generations.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 06, 2017, 09:38:35 AM
In fact this morning Nigel said " Having now had opportuntity to evaluate 5 units, aside from a defective unit, what I am finding is that the lens and optics are very good. ". So those aren't all the same projectors.

Correct. Two are going back to Sony. One with the green tint problem and one with focus problem, if I recall.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 06, 2017, 09:40:51 AM
Surely you're not calling this snake oil!

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina60.htm

 8)

That may be even worse than cable lifters. :)
https://www.google.com/search?q=audio+cable+lifters&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=SOYFymEP91XadM%253A%252CMgqB8bw5oYivSM%252C_&usg=__KOJsqYzqvjtIDPTfvdrku8fyGfs%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2tp6A9_XXAhVD54MKHY_6CWwQ9QEI8AEwAg#imgrc=SOYFymEP91XadM: (https://www.google.com/search?q=audio+cable+lifters&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=SOYFymEP91XadM%253A%252CMgqB8bw5oYivSM%252C_&usg=__KOJsqYzqvjtIDPTfvdrku8fyGfs%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2tp6A9_XXAhVD54MKHY_6CWwQ9QEI8AEwAg#imgrc=SOYFymEP91XadM:)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on December 06, 2017, 02:13:13 PM
You're smarter than me Mike. I couldn't hold back most of the time. I will say that getting banned has actually led to less stress for me. I've also had more time to explore other areas of interest. I'm getting really into high end 2-channel audio. The problem with audio is that everything seems to be more subjective on how things perform. I mean, yes, there are standards in audio too but they aren't used as strictly as video standards are. Plus there's a lot of snake oil claims/products out there that need to be investigated.

If you want to really fall down a rabbit hole start designing and building speakers!

I am currently measuring and designing crossovers for my new 194cm tall towers.

(https://i.imgur.com/gdzwkUm.jpg)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 06, 2017, 03:39:34 PM
If you want to really fall down a rabbit hole start designing and building speakers!

I am currently measuring and designing crossovers for my new 194cm tall towers.

(https://i.imgur.com/gdzwkUm.jpg)

Depends on what you build. If you start small, you will build something new, any chance you get. But build something like you did and I have a feeling you will be satisfied for a long time. That is how I am. I used to get new speakers every year or so, but after building my last set, I am done, unless i move and even then, I will take these with me if they will fit. But as of right now, I have no plans to move. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Peter Parker on December 06, 2017, 04:48:10 PM
I delved into crossover design, and then decided to try something easier. I'm now doing rocket science.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on December 06, 2017, 05:37:38 PM
just don't start posting pictures of your new cable lifters. :)

Was it Horshack? ew, ew, ew!

If you put your speaker cables in the wall and the cables run through holes in the studs, then are the studs cable lifters? :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on December 06, 2017, 05:54:10 PM
Depends on what you build. If you start small, you will build something new, any chance you get. But build something like you did and I have a feeling you will be satisfied for a long time. That is how I am. I used to get new speakers every year or so, but after building my last set, I am done, unless i move and even then, I will take these with me if they will fit. But as of right now, I have no plans to move. :)

Oh but Mike, you forget, I have many TV's in the house, many opportunities for speakers...

The wife goes, lets get a TV in the kitchen, I think, cool, I'll build a 5.1 system for it.

Possibilities possibilities.

I definitely think I am close to the point where as for my theatre, adding/changing anything in the 7 channel soundbed is going to just be completely obnoxious. The Atmos speakers though, I have big plans there, and I am not fully happy with that yet.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 06, 2017, 09:31:34 PM
If you want to really fall down a rabbit hole start designing and building speakers!

I am currently measuring and designing crossovers for my new 194cm tall towers.

(https://i.imgur.com/gdzwkUm.jpg)

While I consider myself handy, I don't think I have the patience or skills to make my own speakers. If I were making speakers for home theater (in a dark room) that would be one thing, but a 2-channel setup is going to be on display in a bright room at all times so I want speakers that look aesthetically pleasing. I'm just not up to the task for that. I really like my JTR Triple 8's for LCR, single 8's for surrounds and Danley DTS-10 subwoofer setup I have in the theater, but those speakers really aren't meant for 2-channel audio.

My current 2-channel setup consists of:

Tidal HiFi and FLAC audio streamed via UPnP over my network to a Sonore Signature Series Rendu audio renderer which feeds my PS Audio Directstream DAC via I²S over an AudioQuest Pearl HDMI cable. From there the Directstream feeds a Parasound Halo A21 amp via Mogami Gold balanced XLR cables. The amp feeds a pair of Monitor Audio Gold GX50 speakers. I then have a pair of Bowers & Wilkins PV1D subwoofers (one for each channel) that are fed by the unbalanced RCA outs from the Direststream. Those I have set to low pass at 60hz. As far as fully digital systems go it sounds pretty amazing. I feel you'd need to spend an order of magnitude more on equipment to get a decent step up in overall sound quality. I would say the weakest link in my system currently is my room, but I hope to remedy that with some diffusers and bass traps down the road.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 09, 2017, 07:34:26 AM
Oh but Mike, you forget, I have many TV's in the house, many opportunities for speakers...

The wife goes, lets get a TV in the kitchen, I think, cool, I'll build a 5.1 system for it.

Possibilities possibilities.

I definitely think I am close to the point where as for my theatre, adding/changing anything in the 7 channel soundbed is going to just be completely obnoxious. The Atmos speakers though, I have big plans there, and I am not fully happy with that yet.

I just added something simple to my HT, voice control. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on December 10, 2017, 12:56:01 AM
I'm not sure if he is on this forum, but HighJinx on AVS is one of those people who claims to understand things where he is much closer to clueless. Just like everybody else, I have subjects that I don't know much about, but I don't go around acting like I understand them.

Just one more person on the list of those who don't take responsibility for their false claims on AVS who get help from the mods, IMO.

Maybe Ruined, HighJinx, and roxiedog13 should get together. They could BS each other to death. Although, I think roxiedog13 might be finally posting less BS than he used to.

--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 10, 2017, 12:26:40 PM
I just added something simple to my HT, voice control. :)

Oh crap, if I added that to my theater, my wife would be telling it to turn down the volumn !  :-[
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Stereodude on December 11, 2017, 10:36:29 AM
Oh crap, if I added that to my theater, my wife would be telling it to turn down the volumn !  :-[
You don't have it turned up so loud that it has no hope of hearing her?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on December 14, 2017, 08:10:19 AM
Don't normally go to the bottom of a page in the forums at avsform. I usually stop at the last post and exit or go to the next page if it exists.

Saw this at the bottom:

 "AVSForum.com is an independent audio visual enthusiast website. AVSForum.com is not sponsored by or in any way affiliated with AV Science Inc."

They sure are making it difficult to like their forum. I quit signing in about a year ago. With Scotts pod casts gone there's little reason to go there other than to read a whole lot of off topic posts and/or watch pissing matches!   :( ::)

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 14, 2017, 09:10:22 AM
You don't have it turned up so loud that it has no hope of hearing her?

If I were to do that I'd have no hope of getting " lucky " after the movie.  :o  Sometimes you have to compromise a little!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 15, 2017, 06:15:52 PM
Don't normally go to the bottom of a page in the forums at avsform. I usually stop at the last post and exit or go to the next page if it exists.

Saw this at the bottom:

 "AVSForum.com is an independent audio visual enthusiast website. AVSForum.com is not sponsored by or in any way affiliated with AV Science Inc."

They sure are making it difficult to like their forum. I quit signing in about a year ago. With Scotts pod casts gone there's little reason to go there other than to read a whole lot of off topic posts and/or watch pissing matches!   :( ::)

More and more keep coming over. Would love to see more of the long term posters over here.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 15, 2017, 07:20:20 PM
Did Scott get the boot? I didn't realize he wasn't doing his podcast anymore. I always thought he was a bit of a quirky guy.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on December 15, 2017, 07:34:05 PM
More and more keep coming over. Would love to see more of the long term posters over here.
I have got emails out to Runt, AMartin and Roxie. Scaneramax said he wants his own sub forum entitled "Your not rich enough." ::)

Did Scott get the boot? I didn't realize he wasn't doing his podcast anymore. I always thought he was a bit of a quirky guy.

He was doing the podcast before VS hired him and it was independent of the forum. Leo canceled the podcast, but I think Scott still does a segment on one of the other podcasts. It didn't seem like he did a lot of ads on the podcast, so I guess it wasn't bringing in a lot of money. Probably better to go the Patreon route.

As for him and VS, who knows what deal he has there. I don't think he has anything else going on, so I would guess he will try to hold on to that gig.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 15, 2017, 09:28:51 PM
I have got emails out to Runt, AMartin and Roxie. Scaneramax said he wants his own sub forum entitled "Your not rich enough." ::)

He was doing the podcast before VS hired him and it was independent of the forum. Leo canceled the podcast, but I think Scott still does a segment on one of the other podcasts. It didn't seem like he did a lot of ads on the podcast, so I guess it wasn't bringing in a lot of money. Probably better to go the Patreon route.

As for him and VS, who knows what deal he has there. I don't think he has anything else going on, so I would guess he will try to hold on to that gig.

I don't know if he brings anything useful to the site other than clicks. But I suppose that's why they hired him. I just feel he only has superficial 3rd person knowledge. This is the kind of knowledge that anyone reading the forum frequently could glean and regurgitate. I've never seen him truthfully engage anyone on the forum before or delve deep into any of the topics he discusses. If he has, I must have missed it. His second in command, Mark, seems like the real deal however.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Peter Parker on December 18, 2017, 05:01:09 AM
Scott may have been a quirky guy, but I liked it because of the guests he had and the knowledge they would share. It's a shame that they stopped it because it was usually fact based rather than a lot of the nonsense that seems to prevail over there these days.

It's a completely different forum to the one I joined back in 2000, and just seems like it's constant drama and in-fighting over there now.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 18, 2017, 05:36:30 AM
Scott may have been a quirky guy, but I liked it because of the guests he had and the knowledge they would share. It's a shame that they stopped it because it was usually fact based rather than a lot of the nonsense that seems to prevail over there these days.

It's a completely different forum to the one I joined back in 2000, and just seems like it's constant drama and in-fighting over there now.

He did have a lot of knowledgeable guests on his show. Usually was quite informative.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on December 18, 2017, 06:58:57 AM
Did you see the gratuitous Sony "SPONSORED POST": "Big Game, Big Screen Sony Projectors Buyers Guide" posted by admin?!  ::)

I wonder would they accept a similar deal with JVC!!  8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 18, 2017, 07:14:21 AM
Did you see the gratuitous Sony "SPONSORED POST": "Big Game, Big Screen Sony Projectors Buyers Guide" posted by admin?!  ::)

I wonder would they accept a similar deal with JVC!!  8)

I saw it yesterday and immediately starting laughing. 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 18, 2017, 09:09:36 AM
Did you see the gratuitous Sony "SPONSORED POST": "Big Game, Big Screen Sony Projectors Buyers Guide" posted by admin?!  ::)

I wonder would they accept a similar deal with JVC!!  8)

There are Sony ads all over that site. Take a look at Joerods VW885 " review " - it reads like a Sony ad. Nothing against Sony projectors - we sell them, but parts of the AVS forum read like a Sony infomercial !
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on December 18, 2017, 01:56:43 PM
There are Sony ads all over that site. Take a look at Joerods VW885 " review " - it reads like a Sony ad. Nothing against Sony projectors - we sell them, but parts of the AVS forum read like a Sony infomercial !

Man that thread is getting ridiculous now. I have to bite my tongue there. So many smart a*s posts just asking for replies... Oh well they have their little corners where they can take stabs at all of us.

Joerod is a real piece of work. He jumps on any person who is not a Sony owner like they have no business reading the thread.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 18, 2017, 03:50:56 PM
Why are not people like the user posting this banned on the other forum, this must be one of the most insulting posts I have ever seen and it is coming from a "serious" AV dealer in the US.

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 18, 2017, 03:53:11 PM
Man that thread is getting ridiculous now. I have to bite my tongue there. So many smart a*s posts just asking for replies... Oh well they have their little corners where they can take stabs at all of us.

Joerod is a real piece of work. He jumps on any person who is not a Sony owner like they have no business reading the thread.

I saw your posts. Thing is, if I respond to Joerod or anybody ( and the same will happen to you perhaps ) that I'm not biased since I sell Sony, and JVC ( and Epson etc. ) I run the risk of being completely banned for saying I sell projectors in threads. I already got a warning last week for a general post like that.  It's like tip toe thru the mine field - got to watch exactly what you say ! I was trying to figure out a way to word it so I wouldn't get a warning or finally get banned, and then I just gave up.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 18, 2017, 03:54:45 PM
Man that thread is getting ridiculous now. I have to bite my tongue there. So many smart a*s posts just asking for replies... Oh well they have their little corners where they can take stabs at all of us.

Joerod is a real piece of work. He jumps on any person who is not a Sony owner like they have no business reading the thread.

Joerod is sponsored by Sony and he as biased as one can be.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 18, 2017, 03:55:58 PM
Why are not people like the user posting this banned on the other forum, this must be one of the most insulting posts I have ever seen and it is coming from a "serious" AV dealer in the US.

Don't even get me started on that guy.  >:(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 18, 2017, 04:11:33 PM
Everyone who is still a member on the other forum should report the post of VGI as insulting towards John Schuermann and Mike G, things like that should not be tolerated. I was banned for less than that.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 18, 2017, 04:21:44 PM
Everyone who is still a member on the other forum should report the post of VGI as insulting towards John Schuermann and Mike G, things like that should not be tolerated. I was banned for less than that.

I just did - thanks for the kick in the pants.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: jbn008 on December 18, 2017, 04:53:12 PM
Everyone who is still a member on the other forum should report the post of VGI as insulting towards John Schuermann and Mike G, things like that should not be tolerated. I was banned for less than that.

True.  After I read that post I thought to myself I need to find another forum.  just ridiculous

I'm not banned, but I asked Dave Harper what happened to a few members (Seegs specifically) because their absence has left a void imo and he pointed me here.  I'm glad to see some familiar voices, which have helped me out many times in the past so I'll always be grateful.  To be honest, I was glad to hear that it was just a ban and not anything health related.

Long story short, I'm glad to have a new home.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on December 18, 2017, 06:17:49 PM
I just did - thanks for the kick in the pants.

It''s been deleted.  I couldn't believe what I was reading.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 18, 2017, 07:07:47 PM
It''s been deleted.  I couldn't believe what I was reading.

I complained.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: woofer on December 18, 2017, 10:55:37 PM
I have just received a "Warning" for posting in the 760ES Owners thread.. ???

Apparently  i am a "Biased" JVC Z1 owner????   with a "Hidden Agenda" ????

The mind boggles!!! >:(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 19, 2017, 02:22:05 AM
It''s been deleted.  I couldn't believe what I was reading.

A post like that should not be deleted, it should be left standing for all to see and the user should be banned. I hope he misses a lot of busienss because of this. I have a copy of that post and I will never delete it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 19, 2017, 02:34:28 AM
I have just received a "Warning" for posting in the 760ES Owners thread.. ???

Apparently  i am a "Biased" JVC Z1 owner????   with a "Hidden Agenda" ????

The mind boggles!!! >:(

That must be the most stupid warning I have ever heard about, the other forum is getting so silly now. Just leave it to the Sony fanboys and all others can come over here and we can have a real unbiased forum with real discussions withoug being warned all the time because of Sony owners dont like critisism of their beloved brand.

I dont understand how one can be in love with a brand like some of the Sony fanboys on the other forum, personally I dont care what the label on my stuff says. I just buy what I think is best within my budget, if it says Sony, Acer, Apple, Microsoft, Parasound, Fanatec, Nvidia, Swans, Intel, EVGA, MSI, Epson, Yamaha, Oppo, JVC, Denon, LG, Samsung, Panasonic or whatever I dont care. I actually have electronics from all the brands (and more) mentioned in my house right now. And the last two years I have owned projectors from Sony, Epson, Cineversum and JVC and all of them where great projectors.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 19, 2017, 04:38:11 AM
I just can't help myself sometimes and I have to try and combat this mindless fools.  That VGI guy I don't know how he gets away with some of the posts he makes over there.  He doesn't even try to temper his blatant bias towards Sony.  The least informed individuals over there seem to have control over the dialogue on the forums w/out recourse. 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 19, 2017, 06:56:07 AM
I saw your posts. Thing is, if I respond to Joerod or anybody ( and the same will happen to you perhaps ) that I'm not biased since I sell Sony, and JVC ( and Epson etc. ) I run the risk of being completely banned for saying I sell projectors in threads. I already got a warning last week for a general post like that.  It's like tip toe thru the mine field - got to watch exactly what you say ! I was trying to figure out a way to word it so I wouldn't get a warning or finally get banned, and then I just gave up.

Same here. I can't respond to some of VGI's posts. I can't hint in any way that we are a dealer. I got an infraction yesterday and am now banned from the Sony vs JVC shootout thread that John started. My post was a reply to someone looking for a low price on a projector and I responded along the lines of: "You have to know where to look." I have received several infractions this year. I hope they wipe out completely at the end of the year. I am almost afraid to post anything there.

We need everyone to work on getting people to move over here.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on December 19, 2017, 07:25:13 AM
A post like that should not be deleted, it should be left standing for all to see and the user should be banned. I hope he misses a lot of busienss because of this. I have a copy of that post and I will never delete it.

Can you send me a copy?

I noticed that VGI has been over the top in his Sony bias. One person said they purchased a Sony from him. I wonder if he got that sale from his promotion on AVS or if the guy was local to him.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 19, 2017, 07:39:09 AM
Same here. I can't respond to some of VGI's posts. I can't hint in any way that we are a dealer. I got an infraction yesterday and am now banned from the Sony vs JVC shootout thread that John started. My post was a reply to someone looking for a low price on a projector and I responded along the lines of: "You have to know where to look." I have received several infractions this year. I hope they wipe out completely at the end of the year. I am almost afraid to post anything there.

We need everyone to work on getting people to move over here.

If you had said " you need to shop around " maybe that would fly under their radar. There is no hint of dealer there. Then again, the mods / owners do what they want.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on December 19, 2017, 01:57:44 PM
Same here. I can't respond to some of VGI's posts. I can't hint in any way that we are a dealer. I got an infraction yesterday and am now banned from the Sony vs JVC shootout thread that John started. My post was a reply to someone looking for a low price on a projector and I responded along the lines of: "You have to know where to look." I have received several infractions this year. I hope they wipe out completely at the end of the year. I am almost afraid to post anything there.

We need everyone to work on getting people to move over here.

I have said it before and I will say it again. You guys need this site on Tapatalk.

Its fundamentally difficult to contribute here when I cant check the forum, and post to it from my smart phone.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on December 19, 2017, 02:26:01 PM
I would also recommend trying to boost 'free' and paid search results (search engine optimization) such as on Google, etc.  This is huge. If you can get to page 1 on Google with key words such as "front projectors" and related words it will help a lot with driving new traffic here.  Right now when I type those two words AVS (among other sites) comes up on the first page.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on December 19, 2017, 05:12:49 PM
Thanks Andreas. I just read the VGI deleted post. All I can say is wow. What an idiot.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 20, 2017, 09:10:17 AM
In the shootout thread, they keep going back and forth on the 4K panels for the Sony projectors. Some saying different panels and such. The US Sony sales manager has told me last year and confirmed again this year that all of the Sony 4K HT projectors (285, 385, 675, 885 and 5000) use the same panels.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 20, 2017, 10:13:21 AM
In the shootout thread, they keep going back and forth on the 4K panels for the Sony projectors. Some saying different panels and such. The US Sony sales manager has told me last year and confirmed again this year that all of the Sony 4K HT projectors (285, 385, 675, 885 and 5000) use the same panels.

I've noticed that as well. I'm sure Sony loves it that people assume they're getting something extra with their upper tiered models. There are a few people on that forum who spread this misinformation because they want people to think the projector they own is even more special than it actually is. Yes, you do get something extra with the upper models, but unfortunately unique panels are not it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on December 20, 2017, 10:21:15 AM
I've noticed that as well. I'm sure Sony loves it that people assume they're getting something extra with their upper tiered models. There are a few people on that forum who spread this misinformation because they want people to think the projector they own is even more special than it actually is. Yes, you do get something extra with the upper models, but unfortunately unique panels are not it.

They get a heavier chassis.  :P  oh yeah and some extra light  ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 20, 2017, 10:37:23 AM
If we look at the base 285ES we can see what Sony thinks each upgrade is worth:

Dynamic Iris + Lens Memories = $3000 (385ES)

An Extra 300 Lumens = $7000 (675ES)

Laser Light Engine (not brighter) + 18Gbps HDMI Ports + CFI with a 4K signal = $10,000 (885ES)

F-ARC Lens + ~2000 extra lumens = $35000 (5000ES)

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: HomeTheaterGuy on December 20, 2017, 10:51:34 AM
I have said it before and I will say it again. You guys need this site on Tapatalk.

Its fundamentally difficult to contribute here when I cant check the forum, and post to it from my smart phone.

You bring up a good point.

There are many people who enjoy using TapaTalk, but we don't like their terms of service. To use Tapatalk, we have to agree to let them cache our site, record all your link clicks, and then sell this information to advertisers. (They even place popup ads on our site unless you subscribe to their service.)

Even though we don't offer TapaTalk, we do offer an RSS feed if you want an easy way to check for forum updates.

Thanks for being one of our valuable members. We appreciate your contributions to our forum's discussions!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 20, 2017, 12:07:43 PM
In the shootout thread, they keep going back and forth on the 4K panels for the Sony projectors. Some saying different panels and such. The US Sony sales manager has told me last year and confirmed again this year that all of the Sony 4K HT projectors (285, 385, 675, 885 and 5000) use the same panels.

Really?  I thought the 5000es panels were slightly different.  I remember seeing something in marketing info that said it's same sxrd panels they use in their professional cinema line? 

Here is the quote:  "The world's most advanced home cinema projector combines an advanced laser light source with the same Sony 4K SXRD panel technology that's found in our professional cinema projectors"   Maybe that means all of their 4k projectors have the same panels including their professional lines?

Edit just checked the bulletin for the 885es and it has the same verbiage so all of their 4k projectors share the same panels.  Thanks Mike!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 20, 2017, 01:00:49 PM
Really?  I thought the 5000es panels were slightly different.  I remember seeing something in marketing info that said it's same sxrd panels they use in their professional cinema line? 

Here is the quote:  "The world's most advanced home cinema projector combines an advanced laser light source with the same Sony 4K SXRD panel technology that's found in our professional cinema projectors"   Maybe that means all of their 4k projectors have the same panels including their professional lines?

Edit just checked the bulletin for the 885es and it has the same verbiage so all of their 4k projectors share the same panels.  Thanks Mike!

What Sony really means is that they based the. 74" SXRD panels on their commercial 1.55" SXRD panels. They used the R&D for those larger panels to create the smaller .74" panels. All manufacturers do this. TI, Epson, Cannon and JVC all do the same thing. If the 5000ES was using commercial panels they'd have to be 1.55"  in size but as the literature says for the 5000ES, it's using the smaller consumer . 74" variant. ie all VPL-VW models use the same SXRD panels. The only difference is that Sony has improved them on a year to year basis. So all 2017 calendar year models will be using the exact same panels. This means you can expect the 285ES all the way up to 5000ES to use the same panels given the 5000ES was manufacturered in 2017.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on December 20, 2017, 02:05:12 PM
You bring up a good point.

There are many people who enjoy using TapaTalk, but we don't like their terms of service.

And I appreciate it, not specifically TapaTalk, but the caring about what you sign up for, and what you sign away.  I like it much better when I see a site that looks like this:
(https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=459.0;attach=968;image)

Than this:
(https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=459.0;attach=971;image)
and this:
(https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=459.0;attach=973;image)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 20, 2017, 02:56:11 PM
What Sony really means is that they based the. 74" SXRD panels on their commercial 1.55" SXRD panels. They used the R&D for those larger panels to create the smaller .74" panels. All manufacturers do this. TI, Epson, Cannon and JVC all do the same thing. If the 5000ES was using commercial panels they'd have to be 1.55"  in size but as the literature says for the 5000ES, it's using the smaller consumer . 74" variant. ie all VPL-VW models use the same SXRD panels. The only difference is that Sony has improved them on a year to year basis. So all 2017 calendar year models will be using the exact same panels. This means you can expect the 285ES all the way up to 5000ES to use the same panels given the 5000ES was manufacturered in 2017.

Yes, all Sony 4K HT models use the same 0.74" panels and have done so since the VW1000ES, they have been slightly modified, but not that much I think.

According to the biggest Sony fanboys the 885 has new panels and that is why it measures much higher on/off than earlier models. As I see it from the measurements posted it measures around 12-20000:1, and if you compare that to the 520 (665) I measured a couple of years ago it measured around 15000:1 manual iris set to 100 and 19000:1 with the manual iris closed. This was at mid throw so I guess the fantastic new panels measure about the same as the 2015 panels. 8)

I also wonder why the ANSI contrast has dropped?? I remember the 520 measured around 4-450:1 and the 885 measured at 360:1 by Cine4Home. This must be a huge con according to Roxiedog13 who thinks ANSI contrast is the most important. I am waithing for his halleluja first impressions at the other forum. LOL

I also think it is funny when 675 owners who upgrade to the 885 says how big of an improvement it is, laser alone does nothing to the PQ. I am 100% sure if you put a 675 and 885 side by side brightness matched and calibrated no difference would be seen.

What I also find strange is that they measure different on/off with different laser power, theoretically it sould measure exactly the same with the laser dimming shut off as it has no iris. What is strange is that it seems to measure highest at the 100 setting.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 20, 2017, 11:34:26 PM
It's interesting that certain people keep mentioning a "new and improved lens" and yet we see lower ANSI contrast. Unless there is a ton of light scatter in the light engine, I can't agree with people that the lens is improved. In fact, it looks like it's performing worse than before.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Stereodude on December 21, 2017, 04:07:58 AM
What I also find strange is that they measure different on/off with different laser power, theoretically it sould measure exactly the same with the laser dimming shut off as it has no iris. What is strange is that it seems to measure highest at the 100 setting.
That makes perfect sense.  Since it uses laser dimming the black is going to be constant regardless of the laser power setting since it can only dim so far.  So off is fixed.  The brighter you crank the laser by upping the laser power the more "on" you get and thereby a higher ratio.  In contrast a conventional iris affects both on and off.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 21, 2017, 06:19:18 AM
That makes perfect sense.  Since it uses laser dimming the black is going to be constant regardless of the laser power setting since it can only dim so far.  So off is fixed.  The brighter you crank the laser by upping the laser power the more "on" you get and thereby a higher ratio.  In contrast a conventional iris affects both on and off.

No it does not.

With the dynamic laser dimming off it should not. As you decrease the power both white and black should drop the same persentage and thus give you exactly the same on/off. Just as a UHP projector measures exactly the same on/off contrast in high and low power with the same iris position. 8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 21, 2017, 06:28:51 AM
The 885 throws a very nice image. If I did not own the 4500, I would certainly would have looked at the 885. It throws an image that is close to the 4500 and costs less. It is like everything in life, you pay quite a bit more to get a little closer to perfect.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Stereodude on December 21, 2017, 07:23:06 AM
No it does not.

With the dynamic laser dimming off it should not. As you decrease the power both white and black should drop the same persentage and thus give you exactly the same on/off. Just as a UHP projector measures exactly the same on/off contrast in high and low power with the same iris position. 8)
That would suggest dynamic laser dimming can't really be fully turned off or they have some sort of dynamic gamma processing that's tied to the laser power setting that can't be turned off.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 21, 2017, 08:28:01 AM
That would suggest dynamic laser dimming can't really be fully turned off or they have some sort of dynamic gamma processing that's tied to the laser power setting that can't be turned off.

That might be the case and then it will be very difficult to trust the calibration results, as all dynamic settings must be turned off to get reliable measurements when calibrating. If this is the case owners of the 885 should report it to Sony and Sony would need to fix it with a firmware update.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 21, 2017, 08:35:28 AM
The 885 throws a very nice image. If I did not own the 4500, I would certainly would have looked at the 885. It throws an image that is close to the 4500 and costs less. It is like everything in life, you pay quite a bit more to get a little closer to perfect.

It does for sure, but the halleluja/honeymoon statements is simply silly, it is actually a 675 with a laser light source and a upgraded optical engine. It will not make wonders for the end results. I see Roxiedog actually is rather reserved after checking out his 885 and says it would be interesting to see one side by side with a 675, I was rater surprised by this.

I am sure testing them side by side would show them to be very similar. I am sure the RS4500 is quite superior to the 885 due to its incredible lens and a higher build quality. I would like to see a RS4500 and a 885 side by side, but it is impossible fo me to arrange. I would also like to see a RS4500 side by side with my Cineversum BW2. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 21, 2017, 08:39:02 AM
It does for sure, but the halleluja/honeymoon statements is simply silly, it is actually a 675 with a laser light source and a upgraded optical engine. It will not make wonders for the end results. I see Roxiedog actually is rather reserved after checking out his 885 and says it would be interesting to see one side by side with a 675, I was rater surprised by this.

I am sure testing them side by side would show them to be very similar. I am sure the RS4500 is quite superior to the 885 due to its incredible lens and a higher build quality. I would like to see a RS4500 and a 885 side by side, but it is impossible fo me to arrange. I would also like to see a RS4500 side by side with my Cineversum BW2. :)

It's been done twice now ( three times if you count Cedia which was a poor demo unfortunately ) by others. You know which one won.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 21, 2017, 08:55:01 AM
It's been done twice now ( three times if you count Cedia which was a poor demo unfortunately ) by others. You know which one won.

Yes, but I would like to see it with my own eyes also.

And according to the Sony boys on the other forum there must be something wrong with the tests or they where rigged...
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 21, 2017, 09:20:19 AM
Yes, but I would like to see it with my own eyes also.

And according to the Sony boys on the other forum there must be something wrong with the tests or they where rigged...

Which is funny because Arrow is a dealer for both brands, and John in Colorado might be too.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Stereodude on December 21, 2017, 09:44:47 AM
But those are unreliable because the wrong projector won.  :P
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 21, 2017, 10:23:19 AM
I have seen the 885 together with the 385 and not much of a difference could be seen and I have calibrated some of the new models, no 885 though. And I would never choose the 285 or 385 before my BW2 (JVC RS520 clone), darks scenes are way to flat and gray for me to do that. Other than that the Sonys are great machines, witch can appear sharper and more detailed if you put your nose up to the screen. That is not the way I watch movies so the slightly softer and less detailed image of a e-shift JVC throws a better total image to me than a 4K Sony, laser or no laser.

I guess the reason for the Sony boys to say the tests where rigged was because the outcome was not as they wanted and expected. For some (VGI and Joerod) it is not even possible for a JVC to produce an image even close to a Sony.LOL
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on December 21, 2017, 10:30:53 AM
I have seen the 885 together with the 385 and not much of a difference could be seen and I have calibrated some of the new models, no 885 though. And I would never choose the 285 or 385 before my BW2 (JVC RS520 clone), darks scenes are way to flat and gray for me to do that. Other than that the Sonys are great machines.

I guess the reason for the Sony boys to say the tests where rigged was because the outcome was not as they wanted and expected. For some (VGI and Joerod) it is not even possible for a JVC to produce an image even close to a Sony.LOL

JoeRod is a fanboy and promoter of only Sony.  He used to do some reviews way back of JVC products and generally knocked them for certain things but, not when it comes to Sony.  Now his homemade web page shows nothing but Sony projectors.  I don't even think he calibrates any of the projectors he reviews.  VGI is a clown and should have been banned for his remarks on the other forum.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 21, 2017, 10:37:23 AM
JoeRod is a fanboy and promoter of only Sony.  He used to do some reviews way back of JVC products and generally knocked them for certain things but, not when it comes to Sony.  Now his homemade web page shows nothing but Sony projectors.  I don't even think he calibrates any of the projectors he reviews.  VGI is a clown and should have been banned for his remarks on the other forum.

Joerod has always been a Sony boy even if he owned a JVC or two many years ago. He does not calibrate or measure when he reviews projectors, and to me his reviews is simply not interesting at all. It is 100% clear he is sponsored by Sony and he should not be allowed to link to his reviews on the other forum.

Is VGI still able to post after the very insulting post towards Mike G and John Schuermann?? If he is it is a disgrace, he should be banned for life!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 21, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
Which is funny because Arrow is a dealer for both brands, and John in Colorado might be too.

Yes, both guys doing the comparsome are dealers for both brands. Nobody should have expected the 885 to beat the 4500. That was not reasonable to expect. Just like people were unreasonable, when they expected the 4500 to beat the VW5000. There is a reason for the price difference. Compete with it, yes, but not beat it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on December 21, 2017, 10:53:05 AM
Joerod has always been a Sony boy even if he owned a JVC or two many years ago. He does not calibrate or measure when he reviews projectors, and to me his reviews is simply not interesting at all. It is 100% clear he is sponsored by Sony and he should not be allowed to link to his reviews on the other forum.

Is VGI still able to post after the very insulting post towards Mike G and John Schuermann?? If he is it is a disgrace, he should be banned for life!

I agree.  VGI should be banned if he isn't already, I don't know. I don't pay any attention to any of Joerods posts as you say they are not interesting.

I have several people I trust to give unbiased reviews of projectors.  They tell it like it is and know who they are. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 21, 2017, 07:48:47 PM
Yes, both guys doing the comparsome are dealers for both brands. Nobody should have expected the 885 to beat the 4500. That was not reasonable to expect. Just like people were unreasonable, when they expected the 4500 to beat the VW5000. There is a reason for the price difference. Compete with it, yes, but not beat it.

You say that but a lot of people were under the assumption (and posting as if) they would perform essentially the same. I haven't seen the 885ES or RS4500 so I can't comment on them specifically, but I can presume to know why the 885ES looked subjectively less sharp. It's the same reason why eshift can look just as good as the Sony 4Ks. No, it's not the lens on the RS4500 (though that may play a very small role), it's that the Sony's aren't native 4K when we factor in color information. Sure there may be 8.8 million pixels, but the Sony's can't map discreet color information to all of those pixels. There is a TON of information lost in color due to the posterization and banding issue that all Sony 4K models have. All you need to do is walk up close to the screen when any Sony 4K model is on projecting video content and you'll see what I'm referring to. It's a mess up close and a ton of information is smeared and blotched together into swaths of same color nothingness. The JVCs, from that I've been told, do not have this issue and I'm fully confident this is the reason why people saw the RS4500 as being noticeably sharper with better image detail over the 885ES.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on December 22, 2017, 04:48:43 AM
You say that but a lot of people were under the assumption (and posting as if) they would perform essentially the same. I haven't seen the 885ES or RS4500 so I can't comment on them specifically, but I can presume to know why the 885ES looked subjectively less sharp. It's the same reason why eshift can look just as good as the Sony 4Ks. No, it's not the lens on the RS4500 (though that may play a very small role), it's that the Sony's aren't native 4K when we factor in color information. Sure there may be 8.8 million pixels, but the Sony's can't map discreet color information to all of those pixels. There is a TON of information lost in color due to the posterization and banding issue that all Sony 4K models have. All you need to do is walk up close to the screen when any Sony 4K model is on projecting video content and you'll see what I'm referring to. It's a mess up close and a ton of information is smeared and blotched together into swaths of same color nothingness. The JVCs, from that I've been told, do not have this issue and I'm fully confident this is the reason why people saw the RS4500 as being noticeably sharper with better image detail over the 885ES.

makes sense and I think the people that thought they would perform the same were the fanboys that already pre-ordered the 885es sight unseen.   However, I think that the lens might play somewhat of a larger role than you are alluding to.  We will know for sure in the future b/c I am hearing rumblings that the 1100 replacement is coming w/ laser engine and upgraded optics. 

I think the Sony's clearly have convergence and focus uniformity issues though.  My 665es was pretty horrific along both of those lines and sounds like that has been an ongoing theme for many Sony 4k's since they have been released.  Seems as though RC is used to try to remedy some of their panels shortcomings, but I think they do as much bad as they do good.  At least that's what I felt w/ my previous 665es.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 22, 2017, 06:21:08 AM
I see people talking of 50 in the RC settings not giving any visible defects, I saw a screenshot posted by the 885 owner SoulOfUniverse and it looked very overcooked and very bad and he says he uses high RC settings. I have not seen the 885 and I did not test the RC very detailed when I calibrated a couple of the new 265/365 I just set them low.

What is also funny is a comment from Roxiedog13 that the Lumagen Pro will take care of any ringing caused by RC, I hardly believe that the Lumagen will do this when it is the Sony prosessing causing the ringing/edge enhancement. 8)

I also think the lens of the 885 is a very weak point, to put the same lens in a 25000$ unit as a 5000$ unit is very bad I think. The lens in the RS4500 is in a hole different league, I even think the lens in my BW2 is better.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on December 22, 2017, 06:59:14 AM


What is also funny is a comment from Roxiedog13 that the Lumagen Pro will take care of any ringing caused by RC, I hardly believe that the Lumagen will do this when it is the Sony prosessing causing the ringing/edge enhancement. 8)


That is funny.  Yeah, I've never heard of the ability of a tool to remove ringing and even if it were possible it would surely have its own artifacts in doing so.  As we know in video, there are no free lunches. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on December 22, 2017, 09:22:37 AM
There are dering filters out there (madVR can do it), but obviously it's best to not introduce ringing in the first place.  No idea if the Radiance Pro has such a filter, of course I don't know how it could fix something that happens after it sees the video.  Only way to do that would be to add blur or something to the edges or something so that RC would then "undo".

Seems awfully Rube-Goldberg to me.   ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 22, 2017, 09:25:53 AM
I see people talking of 50 in the RC settings not giving any visible defects, I saw a screenshot posted by the 885 owner SoulOfUniverse and it looked very overcooked and very bad and he says he uses high RC settings. I have not seen the 885 and I did not test the RC very detailed when I calibrated a couple of the new 265/365 I just set them low.

What is also funny is a comment from Roxiedog13 that the Lumagen Pro will take care of any ringing caused by RC, I hardly believe that the Lumagen will do this when it is the Sony prosessing causing the ringing/edge enhancement. 8)

I also think the lens of the 885 is a very weak point, to put the same lens in a 25000$ unit as a 5000$ unit is very bad I think. The lens in the RS4500 is in a hole different league, I even think the lens in my BW2 is better.

Yep, the lumagen can't do anything to correct any ringing caused by RC, since the projector processing occurs after the lumagen.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on December 22, 2017, 12:40:31 PM
Yep, the lumagen can't do anything to correct any ringing caused by RC, since the projector processing occurs after the lumagen.

When I wrote hardly belive I was just kind, of corse the Lumagen can not correct what is happening in the projector. ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on December 22, 2017, 09:41:25 PM
When I wrote hardly belive I was just kind, of corse the Lumagen can not correct what is happening in the projector. ;D

I know. I was agreeing with you. I just stated the obvious reason, why it was stupid to think it could. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: coderguy on December 27, 2017, 03:43:49 AM
I've been walking on egg shells in that other forum lately. At least there is at least one reasonable MOD still at AVSForum. I have been reported a few times by Sony and Optoma users, but the Mods have all taken my side thus far...

That said, I no longer feel complete freedom about sharing my opinions about potential deficiencies in units for fear of being banned there. I have stopped posting about Sony and Optoma for the most part for fear of being banned :)

I understand the UHZ-65 is a good light cannon and LASER if you can stand the 2x color wheel (I probably couldn't), but the NON-LASER UHD-65 is 800/1200 calibrated lumens or so, and that is just no comparison and no reason to really even look at a UHD 65 over the JVC when the pricing is this close to the low-end JVC.



Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on December 27, 2017, 10:33:38 AM
I've been walking on egg shells in that other forum lately. At least there is at least one reasonable MOD still at AVSForum. I have been reported a few times by Sony and Optoma users, but the Mods have all taken my side thus far...

That said, I no longer feel complete freedom about sharing my opinions about potential deficiencies in units for fear of being banned there. I have stopped posting about Sony and Optoma for the most part for fear of being banned :)

I understand the UHZ-65 is a good light cannon and LASER if you can stand the 2x color wheel (I probably couldn't), but the NON-LASER UHD-65 is 800/1200 calibrated lumens or so, and that is just no comparison and no reason to really even look at a UHD 65 over the JVC when the pricing is this close to the low-end JVC.

It's a shame that people can't discuss things without all the BS over there.

Ya, this week an RS420 and an Optoma UHD65 are the exact same price. The UHD60 I had did throw a nice image in some ways, but the light spill out the vent, lack of powered anything and occasional rainbows were enough to turn me off .
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on December 27, 2017, 01:29:16 PM
I've been walking on egg shells in that other forum lately. At least there is at least one reasonable MOD still at AVSForum. I have been reported a few times by Sony and Optoma users, but the Mods have all taken my side thus far...

That said, I no longer feel complete freedom about sharing my opinions about potential deficiencies in units for fear of being banned there. I have stopped posting about Sony and Optoma for the most part for fear of being banned :)

I understand the UHZ-65 is a good light cannon and LASER if you can stand the 2x color wheel (I probably couldn't), but the NON-LASER UHD-65 is 800/1200 calibrated lumens or so, and that is just no comparison and no reason to really even look at a UHD 65 over the JVC when the pricing is this close to the low-end JVC.





It's sad for sure. I got banned but it's quite nice now that I don't have to deal with people like Roxiedog and Ruined anymore. These types of people have destroyed any sense of objectiveness on that forum. They water down factual things to suspend belief that an issue or performance level  might not be as bad as it seems after all.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on December 28, 2017, 10:44:49 AM
Stereodude called out Runt and I knew it was a matter of time before the posts were deleted. In the one post I saw, Runt basically said he was technology agnostic and trying to bring balance to all of the JVC promotion.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Stereodude on December 29, 2017, 07:16:10 AM
Stereodude called out Runt and I knew it was a matter of time before the posts were deleted. In the one post I saw, Runt basically said he was technology agnostic and trying to bring balance to all of the JVC promotion.
Yeah, but they left the call out, and deleted his responses. I didn't get to read any of them though because I didn't make it back to the forum for a while.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on December 29, 2017, 09:49:28 AM
So I see now that Brilliant Color (with RGB/RGBY) color wheels now expands gamut and is more accurate for Rec.2020 content, and increases brightness too!  :-\  I suppose on an RGBY wheel it might expand it a tad (depends on how saturated the Yellow is) but some folks clearly don't understand how these things work.

Surely if BC actually produced a wider, more accurate gamut while being brighter, everyone would be using it all the time...
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 02, 2018, 01:50:51 PM
I've been reading the recent Sony and JVC shootout thread hosted last month. I noticed that John Schuermann mentioned that the JVC did not have it's dynamic iris engaged. So it baffles me that they used it on the 385ES but not the JVC. I just want to mention this because a lot of people have said that the Sony and JVC did not appear any different (mostly) when it came to subjective contrast performance. Well of course that was going to be the case when the DI was engaged on the Sony but not the JVC. Here's the post where he mentioned that:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2937682-great-jvc-vs-sony-projector-shootout-dec-9-10-no-price-talk-please-15.html#post55342984

It would be nice if someone could mention this glaring mistake in that thread so the comparisons made can be put into proper context. I also did not see any mention about whether or not if the projectors were brightness matched. I'm guessing they were, but I feel people might have gotten the impression that the Sony 385ES can be just as bright as the JVC. The 385ES is at a huge disadvantage when it comes to contrast and brightness (and color gamut). Its just odd to me that they let this DI mistake slide through. I think it was a little unfair and gave the wrong impression about contrast differences.

In the past I would have said brightness matching should be done, but now we live in a world where HDR performance is important. For HDR comparisons the projectors shouldn't be brightness matched , but rather put in their respective brightest modes to properly compare relative HDR performance.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 02, 2018, 04:13:46 PM
I've been reading the recent Sony and JVC shootout thread hosted last month. I noticed that John Schuermann mentioned that the JVC did not have it's dynamic iris engaged. So it baffles me that they used it on the 385ES but not the JVC. I just want to mention this because a lot of people have said that the Sony and JVC did not appear any different (mostly) when it came to subjective contrast performance. Well of course that was going to be the case when the DI was engaged on the Sony but not the JVC. Here's the post where he mentioned that:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2937682-great-jvc-vs-sony-projector-shootout-dec-9-10-no-price-talk-please-15.html#post55342984

It would be nice if someone could mention this glaring mistake in that thread so the comparisons made can be put into proper context. I also did not see any mention about whether or not if the projectors were brightness matched. I'm guessing they were, but I feel people might have gotten the impression that the Sony 385ES can be just as bright as the JVC. The 385ES is at a huge disadvantage when it comes to contrast and brightness (and color gamut). Its just odd to me that they let this DI mistake slide through. I think it was a little unfair and gave the wrong impression about contrast differences.

In the past I would have said brightness matching should be done, but now we live in a world where HDR performance is important. For HDR comparisons the projectors shouldn't be brightness matched , but rather put in their respective brightest modes to properly compare relative HDR performance.

I agree with you 100% in this, turning off the DI on the 640 is like putting a restrictor in a 600hp car making it a 400hp car.

And brighness matching is only important with SDR material, doing it with HDR is not the way to do it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: jbn008 on January 02, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Dylan-

Looks like JAVS and I both mentioned your observation so we'll see (i didn't see his post until after I sent my reply).  Oh well
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 02, 2018, 05:15:18 PM
Dylan-

Looks like JAVS and I both mentioned your observation so we'll see (i didn't see his post until after I sent my reply).  Oh well

Thanks for asking. I feel it's kind of important to know this information especially when people might be using it to make a decision on what projector to buy. It would be interesting to know if the JVCs manual iris was used to level match the 385ES in terms of lumen output.  If this was done as well (when comparing HDR) the results of the shootout are difficult to take seriously. And I say this already knowing most people preferred the JVC anyways. And I think this is what happened too because several people have said "the images looked indistinguishable from one another". If the JVC were set to peak brightness, the JVC would have looked distinctly different with all content and definitely better when viewing HDR. If the JVC weren't handicapped in both brightness and contrast I think the results would have been even more in favor of the JVC.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 02, 2018, 05:56:36 PM
Thanks for asking. I feel it's kind of important to know this information especially when people might be using it to make a decision on what projector to buy. It would be interesting to know if the JVCs manual iris was used to level match the 385ES in terms of lumen output.  If this was done as well (when comparing HDR) the results of the shootout are difficult to take seriously. And I say this already knowing most people preferred the JVC anyways. And I think this is what happened too because several people have said "the images looked indistinguishable from one another". If the JVC were set to peak brightness, the JVC would have looked distinctly different with all content and definitely better when viewing HDR. If the JVC weren't handicapped in both brightness and contrast I think the results would have been even more in favor of the JVC.

Not brightness matching them is one of those " damned if you do, damned if you don't " type of things. Brightness matching with the use of the manual iris does have the potential to give the JVC better native contrast.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 02, 2018, 06:12:14 PM
Not brightness matching them is one of those " damned if you do, damned if you don't " type of things. Brightness matching with the use of the manual iris does have the potential to give the JVC better native contrast.

I'd say the native contrast would still have been better than the dynamic contrast on the 385ES which is why people still said the JVC looked better than the Sony, but not by a huge margin. If the DI was engaged it would have been night and day different when things got dark. I've done these comparisons enough times to know that the difference would have been obvious if the DI were in fact on. This was when I had the 665ES and RS500 here.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: TWISM on January 02, 2018, 06:32:31 PM
I've been reading the recent Sony and JVC shootout thread hosted last month. I noticed that John Schuermann mentioned that the JVC did not have it's dynamic iris engaged. So it baffles me that they used it on the 385ES but not the JVC. I just want to mention this because a lot of people have said that the Sony and JVC did not appear any different (mostly) when it came to subjective contrast performance. Well of course that was going to be the case when the DI was engaged on the Sony but not the JVC. Here's the post where he mentioned that:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2937682-great-jvc-vs-sony-projector-shootout-dec-9-10-no-price-talk-please-15.html#post55342984

It would be nice if someone could mention this glaring mistake in that thread so the comparisons made can be put into proper context. I also did not see any mention about whether or not if the projectors were brightness matched. I'm guessing they were, but I feel people might have gotten the impression that the Sony 385ES can be just as bright as the JVC. The 385ES is at a huge disadvantage when it comes to contrast and brightness (and color gamut). Its just odd to me that they let this DI mistake slide through. I think it was a little unfair and gave the wrong impression about contrast differences.

In the past I would have said brightness matching should be done, but now we live in a world where HDR performance is important. For HDR comparisons the projectors shouldn't be brightness matched , but rather put in their respective brightest modes to properly compare relative HDR performance.

As someone who was there, I can assure you the 385 and 640 both had the dynamic iris disabled on Sunday. If I am not mistaken they were brightness matched by Gregg.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 02, 2018, 06:50:07 PM
As someone who was there, I can assure you the 385 and 640 both had the dynamic iris disabled on Sunday. If I am not mistaken they were brightness matched by Gregg.

Thanks.  John menrioned the DI was on and off throughout the day,  but maybe I'm misunderstanding what he meant. Either way if the DI was on with the Sony it should have been on with the JVC too. It only makes sense to keep the comparison done fairly. The brightness matching for HDR doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you factor in what HDR is. It needs all the brightness it can for specular highlights.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on January 02, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
As someone who was there, I can assure you the 385 and 640 both had the dynamic iris disabled on Sunday. If I am not mistaken they were brightness matched by Gregg.

Yeah I just don't get the idea behind leaving both DI's off for a shootout.

Thats like testing a Porsche or Ferrari which has launch control, but not using it at all.

One of the greatest things about the JVC, DI multipliers that embarrass the competition, but not used here.

If the DI on my JVC broke I would sell it. I cant live without it, and I already have 90k:1 native at the iris position I use, HDR wide open would be even worse with no DI.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 02, 2018, 09:17:44 PM
The thought was that they could emulate a 285ES with the 385ES if they disabled the DI. That part I understand, but since all JVCs have a DI why wouldn't it be on all the time? And not to beat a dead horse here, but why on earth would you want to brightness match the 385ES for HDR? I mean..the whole point for HDR (and what might make one projector better than the other) is to have as much brightness as possible. The JVC has the capabilities to be about 140% brighter than the Sony. That can make one hell of a difference with HDR. Enabling the DI and  putting the JVC in it's brightest mode would have trounced the 385ES.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: TWISM on January 03, 2018, 08:35:20 AM
The thought was that they could emulate a 285ES with the 385ES if they disabled the DI. That part I understand, but since all JVCs have a DI why wouldn't it be on all the time? And not to beat a dead horse here, but why on earth would you want to brightness match the 385ES for HDR? I mean..the whole point for HDR (and what might make one projector better than the other) is to have as much brightness as possible. The JVC has the capabilities to be about 140% brighter than the Sony. That can make one hell of a difference with HDR. Enabling the DI and  putting the JVC in it's brightest mode would have trounced the 385ES.

I can't speak for this shootout and brightness matched, but I had a 640 and a 385 in my personal room at the same time and the 385ES measured as bright as the 640. When I got a 2nd 640 to test the 640 was just a little brighter, nowhere near close to 140% brighter.

I am not a novice, I had everything setup correctly. The correct options set, etc... The 385 measured what people were saying it would while the 640 was not near what I saw others get.. Maybe I got two under spec units, even had  brand new spare bulb to test.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 03, 2018, 08:48:45 AM
I can't speak for this shootout and brightness matched, but I had a 640 and a 385 in my personal room at the same time and the 385ES measured as bright as the 640. When I got a 2nd 640 to test the 640 was just a little brighter, nowhere near close to 140% brighter.

I am not a novice, I had everything setup correctly. The correct options set, etc... The 385 measured what people were saying it would while the 640 was not near what I saw others get.. Maybe I got two under spec units, even had  brand new spare bulb to test.

The 285ES and 385ES calibrate to just over 1200 lumens. The JVC 640 should be about 500 or more lumens brighter. I've read that some of the 6xx JVCs were hitting over 1800 calibrated lumens. Zombie10k's RS600 for example is capable of this. The 285ES I had here and calibrated (and other reviews) corroborate this. There were some early run JVCs this year that weren't hitting the peak brightness that they should have been. I wonder if the JVCs you saw had this issue as well. I think Javs had one of these units. I did a shootout in my own theater between the RS420 and 285ES and the brightness difference was extremely obvious.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: TWISM on January 03, 2018, 09:56:28 AM
The 285ES and 385ES calibrate to just over 1200 lumens. The JVC 640 should be about 500 or more lumens brighter. I've read that some of the 6xx JVCs were hitting over 1800 calibrated lumens. Zombie10k's RS600 for example is capable of this. The 285ES I had here and calibrated (and other reviews) corroborate this. There were some early run JVCs this year that weren't hitting the peak brightness that they should have been. I wonder if the JVCs you saw had this issue as well. I think Javs had one of these units. I did a shootout in my own theater between the RS420 and 285ES and the brightness difference was extremely obvious.

Yes it should be and I really stopped following the brightness discussions but I know that it seemed like a few of us had lower samples than previous models.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 03, 2018, 10:10:34 AM
Yes it should be and I really stopped following the brightness discussions but I know that it seemed like a few of us had lower samples than previous models.

The RS640 I had for a few days was nearly identical brightness wise to the RS600 I had - BUT - I had to make sure that I used settings that were identical, which were basically Zombie10K's quick start setup tips. I'm not convinced people remember to set them up the same way ( I keep lots of notes ).
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: coderguy on January 03, 2018, 11:49:34 AM
The proper way to brightness match is in an A/B is by shelf mounting the brighter projector higher up until it reaches the same lumens off an HP screen, because the HP screen causes extreme gain loss moving it up or left/right.

That's how I always did it in the past when I used to compare projectors ages ago. Haven't done a comparison in a long time, because not enough has changed for me to really care.

I already know the RS-4500 would be the winner for me, but I don't have that kind of budget. Per the Sony's, they are ruled out for me due to various reasons, as I think they are overpriced for what you get.

Now if they came way way down in price, I might consider one, but I'd likely just stick with a newer JVC.

I'm still going to wait for the 4k stuff to iron out before I get an upgrade, the last 2 upgrades I did were kind of mistimed, not that you can really time anything anyways...

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 03, 2018, 12:24:33 PM
The proper way to brightness match is in an A/B is by shelf mounting the brighter projector higher up until it reaches the same lumens off an HP screen, because the HP screen causes extreme gain loss moving it up or left/right.

That's how I always did it in the past when I used to compare projectors ages ago. Haven't done a comparison in a long time, because not enough has changed for me to really care.

I already know the RS-4500 would be the winner for me, but I don't have that kind of budget. Per the Sony's, they are ruled out for me due to various reasons, as I think they are overpriced for what you get.

Now if they came way way down in price, I might consider one, but I'd likely just stick with a newer JVC.

I'm still going to wait for the 4k stuff to iron out before I get an upgrade, the last 2 upgrades I did were kind of mistimed, not that you can really time anything anyways...



I still have my HP screen laying around. I've upgraded to a 10 foot  2.35:1 unity gain EluneVision Rerferemce 4K screen. I can't say enough good about this screen. It's the closest thing to Studiotek 100 material you're going to find at about 1/3 the cost. After using such a high quality screen material and seeing what it can do for image quality (hownlittle is affects the projected image) it's hard to go back, especially when I'm getting over 1700 lumens from my JVC.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: coderguy on January 03, 2018, 12:31:52 PM
That's the same screen I've been recommending to others in the forum, well that one and the Purebright if they can find it. Elunevision makes good screens, but even they can be kind of pricey sometimes, though I never tried a direct dealer to see what kind of price they could do...

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 03, 2018, 01:09:33 PM
If people can afford a studiotek100 screen, go for it. But if you're on a budget and want a reference viewing experience, it's hard to pass up EluneVision's reference 4K material.  It gets you 99% of the way to Studiotek 100.

I also have a Carada unity gain screen that I bought before the EluneVision. It's good for the price but there is a slight sheen to it and it's not opaque. I ended up buying 6 cans of plastidip spray paint to coat the back of the Carada screen with. Without it, even with black velvet material behind the screen to soak up light,  enough light would scatter onto the back of the screen material and wash out the image. The plastidip fixed the light scatter issue as it turned the screen opaque. I ultimately decided that I didn't like the sheen and bought the EluneVision screen. Huge upgrade overall.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on January 03, 2018, 02:07:43 PM
Yeah I just don't get the idea behind leaving both DI's off for a shootout.

Thats like testing a Porsche or Ferrari which has launch control, but not using it at all.

One of the greatest things about the JVC, DI multipliers that embarrass the competition, but not used here.

If the DI on my JVC broke I would sell it. I cant live without it, and I already have 90k:1 native at the iris position I use, HDR wide open would be even worse with no DI.

IIRC Gregg doesn't like DIs or at least he used to not.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Peter Parker on January 03, 2018, 02:24:15 PM
I see some people say that they will automatically disable a DI even before they have seen the projector. I think it must have something to do with the early days when they were visibly bad, but after Sony came out with a good usable one some years ago, I think people should at least give it a go to see how good or bad it is before just dismissing it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 03, 2018, 02:37:35 PM
What I've noticed with DIs on Sony and JVC projectors is that JVCs implementation is more visible with higher APL content and Sony's is more visible with lower APL content. I've seen many times the Sony's pump with darker content and JVCs tend to flicker a bit on occasion with mid/brighter APL content.  Neither are perfect but both work very well overall. I'd say most DLP DIs suck. There are a few exceptions but gamma shifts on DLP projectors (usually creating clipped whites) are often a problem on DLP units with dynamic contrast. 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on January 03, 2018, 03:16:08 PM
Yes it should be and I really stopped following the brightness discussions but I know that it seemed like a few of us had lower samples than previous models.

My X9500 with a new lamp, and a known accurate light meter has 1770 lumens in high bright mode. 1650 lumens fully calibrated D65 SDR mode, 1550 lumens in D65 HDR mode with the WCG filter in place. I get 37fl on my screen in high lamp HDR, and 30fl in low lamp HDR which is what I use.

We need to remember that the JVC's have a WCG filter which eats a little brightness, it is possible to set up an HDR mode without the filter, which would retain the full brightness of the lamp.

Unless the Sony is doing HDR fully calibrated at 1500 lumens, then its not quite as bright and most certainly not reproducing the same colour. My 9500 sample it seems is better than both the 9900's I have had here, but also not the highest I have seen around here. Seems like if I were to get a sample closer to 2000lm peak OOTB, then its not unreasonable to get 1700 lumens calibrated in HDR mode based on what my unit here has done.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 03, 2018, 06:54:59 PM
It's always interesting reading cine4home's "cine4home edition" reviews where they discuss how a group of the same projectors they received performs after calibration. They usually tell people the average lumen output and contrast performance one should expect. The JVCs and Sony's often fluctuate on unit to unit basis of ~10-15% plus or minus the average numbers they get. This explains RS6xx units doing over 1800 lumens like Zombie10k's and some of the lower number units out there as well. I would say an average performing JVC without the P3 filter in the light path should be doing around 1700 lumens in high lamp,.at max zoom and with the manual iris fully open.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on January 04, 2018, 05:00:14 AM
If people can afford a studiotek100 screen, go for it. But if you're on a budget and want a reference viewing experience, it's hard to pass up EluneVision's reference 4K material.  It gets you 99% of the way to Studiotek 100.

I also have a Carada unity gain screen that I bought before the EluneVision. It's good for the price but there is a slight sheen to it and it's not opaque. I ended up buying 6 cans of plastidip spray paint to coat the back of the Carada screen with. Without it, even with black velvet material behind the screen to soak up light,  enough light would scatter onto the back of the screen material and wash out the image. The plastidip fixed the light scatter issue as it turned the screen opaque. I ultimately decided that I didn't like the sheen and bought the EluneVision screen. Huge upgrade overall.

I have a ST130 and have been contemplating switching over to ST100 since I have gotten my RS4500, but I am not sure if there will be much of a noticeable improvement?  Most of my viewing is HDR so would it make sense to keep the added gain?  I do notice sparkle ever once in while and it's usually when my kids are watching animated films or a really bright scene.  Can I expect a marked improvement in image cleanliness bu switching to ST100 from ST130?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 04, 2018, 06:53:26 AM
I see some people say that they will automatically disable a DI even before they have seen the projector. I think it must have something to do with the early days when they were visibly bad, but after Sony came out with a good usable one some years ago, I think people should at least give it a go to see how good or bad it is before just dismissing it.

A few years ago, when I bought an RS600, I fully planned to not use the DI. That was one of the reasons I went with the 600 over the 500, since I wanted as much native contrast as I could get. I was pleasantly surprised how well the DI performed and ended up using it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 04, 2018, 06:57:39 AM
I have a ST130 and have been contemplating switching over to ST100 since I have gotten my RS4500, but I am not sure if there will be much of a noticeable improvement?  Most of my viewing is HDR so would it make sense to keep the added gain?  I do notice sparkle ever once in while and it's usually when my kids are watching animated films or a really bright scene.  Can I expect a marked improvement in image cleanliness bu switching to ST100 from ST130?

ST100 clearly throws a better image, but you will be giving up brightness to get this better image. Do you have enough brightness with HDR to be able to give up the 30% increase the ST130 has over ST100?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 04, 2018, 07:21:02 AM
A few years ago, when I bought an RS600, I fully planned to not use the DI. That was one of the reasons I went with the 600 over the 500, since I wanted as much native contrast as I could get. I was pleasantly surprised how well the DI performed and ended up using it.

On this:

I have the RS400, and found the DI bothersome, with 'iris pumping' quite distracting.  I tried it numerous times, but each time decided it created more problems than it solved.  Two questions related to this:

1.  Does the 'double iris' on the RS500/RS600 line perform significantly better in this regard than the single iris of the RS400?

2.  My aperture now, for the last 6 months or so, doesn't work.  I put it in manual mode, and when I try to adjust it, the numbers on the screen display show it shutting down, but the aperture itself doesn't change.  Is it possible that it was never working properly, even when new, and that is why it was more intrusive?

Thanks.

P.S. Because I have a large screen screen (160" diagonal scope), for HDR I have the aperture open anyway, and even with regular Blu-ray, having it wide open still works fine.  And given the hassle of taking it down, getting it repaired, being without the projector for a few weeks, I've been reluctant to get it fixed.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on January 04, 2018, 07:23:48 AM
ST100 clearly throws a better image, but you will be giving up brightness to get this better image. Do you have enough brightness with HDR to be able to give up the 30% increase the ST130 has over ST100?

I am afraid that if I go to ST100 I will have to run high laser, which I am not completely opposed to doing if the image improvement switching material is great enough.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 04, 2018, 08:58:13 AM
I am afraid that if I go to ST100 I will have to run high laser, which I am not completely opposed to doing if the image improvement switching material is great enough.

I find the image on the ST100 dull in comparison to the ST130. I'd want twice the brightness if I suddenly switched my screens to ST100.But that's the Catch 22 - if I watched at much higher lumens, I'd need to switch to a ST100 - the ST130 would show too many artifacts. As it is, at 18FL for HD material and 38 + / - for UHD 4K HDR material, I feel it's just right brightness wise on my current screens. And I very rarely see screen sheen / artifacts. But, I don't watch hockey !  :-[ Or any animated films.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 04, 2018, 10:00:54 AM
Seeing the sheen/sparkles on the ST130 is a matter of how bright you normally watch at. With my older High Power screen, you could make out texture when the content got bright. The Carada screen I could notice some sheen when the image got bright, but with the EluveVision I see nothing except when my projector is sending out. I don't think I can go back now. You'll get the same experience with the ST100. If that's something that appeals to you, then it might make sense to upgrade your screen. But this comes at a image brightness deficit. There are pro's and cons to both screens.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 04, 2018, 10:45:01 AM
I hate sheen and sparkle.  Love my ST100 screen after owning the Da-Lite HD Pro 1.1, 0.9 and having samples of the Caradas as well as the  ST130.  Now, my screen is only 9 feet wide and my room is painted/carpeted black, so I get enough brightness from my RS440.  However, if I had a very large screen I would probably choose to bypass HDR and go with SDR + 2020 for UHD BD as I despise sparkle and sheen that much.  However, it is very much a preferential/individual type of thing.  The Da-Lite HD Pro 1.1 was rather distracting, but some people in that thread thought I was nuts and claimed it had zero sparkle and sheen.  It was almost like trying to argue with a certain dog about it. lol
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on January 04, 2018, 11:11:23 AM
So I see now that Brilliant Color (with RGB/RGBY) color wheels now expands gamut and is more accurate for Rec.2020 content, and increases brightness too!  :-\  I suppose on an RGBY wheel it might expand it a tad (depends on how saturated the Yellow is) but some folks clearly don't understand how these things work.

Surely if BC actually produced a wider, more accurate gamut while being brighter, everyone would be using it all the time...
Yep. Sad that people like Ruined get away with their misinformation.

I asked Ruined some clarifying questions in the ACER VL7860 thread and he basically admitted that he won't answer my questions because he said it is never productive.

Everybody starts with no knowledge on subject matters and everybody makes mistakes, but there are clearly some people who don't really care if they post misinformation and will do everything they can to admit that they made a mistake.

Ruined is pretty clueless on this subject matter, which is why he has to resort to not answering any question that would clarify his position.

--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 04, 2018, 11:31:50 AM
Wouldn't the primary colors need to be filtered by a yellow notch filter? I don't see how that can happen with the yellow portion of the color wheel is fixed in position and never actually "filters" the primary colors. Brilliant color on most DLP units simply allows for color wheel segment overlap to occur. More mirror "on" time at the expense of color accuracy to boost brightness. Real brilliant color is rare. There have only been a handful of real RGB-RGBY color wheel DLP units released. Most of them were when Brilliant Color was first released and most were found in 1080p single chip DLP Sim2 units. When's the last time anyone had released a DLP unit with such a color wheel?

What is Ruined's explanation at how this would work?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 04, 2018, 11:49:55 AM
Yep. Sad that people like Ruined get away with their misinformation.

I asked Ruined some clarifying questions in the ACER VL7860 thread and he basically admitted that he won't answer my questions because he said it is never productive.

Everybody starts with no knowledge on subject matters and everybody makes mistakes, but there are clearly some people who don't really care if they post misinformation and will do everything they can to admit that they made a mistake.

Ruined is pretty clueless on this subject matter, which is why he has to resort to not answering any question that would clarify his position.

--Darin

Darin, I don't think you're getting through to Runt.   ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ask4me2 on January 04, 2018, 11:55:33 AM
The proper way to brightness match is in an A/B is by shelf mounting the brighter projector higher up until it reaches the same lumens off an HP screen, because the HP screen causes extreme gain loss moving it up or left/right.

That's how I always did it in the past when I used to compare projectors ages ago. Haven't done a comparison in a long time, because not enough has changed for me to really care.

I already know the RS-4500 would be the winner for me, but I don't have that kind of budget. Per the Sony's, they are ruled out for me due to various reasons, as I think they are overpriced for what you get.

Now if they came way way down in price, I might consider one, but I'd likely just stick with a newer JVC.

I'm still going to wait for the 4k stuff to iron out before I get an upgrade, the last 2 upgrades I did were kind of mistimed, not that you can really time anything anyways...

Not sure i understand what a HP screen is, and if a setup with the brighter projector getting a lower screengain having a bigger offset and use of lens-shift etc. is a good idea.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 04, 2018, 12:08:00 PM
Not sure i understand what a HP screen is, and if a setup with the brighter projector getting a lower screengain having a bigger offset and use of lens-shift etc. is a good idea.

A "HP" screen is a (now-discontinued) Da-Lite High Power screen. The screen material is retro-reflective which is very different to most screen materials which are angular-reflective. Due to the special optical coating this screen material can do up to 2.4-2.8 gain (depending on which revision of the screen you have) without excessive artifacts (like a large amount of sheen or sparkles). But the unique optical coating means that projector placement to get all that gain has to be ideal. Ideally you want the projector just over your head to achieve optimal results. The further you or the projector move off axis from center screen the less gain you'll get. The optimal viewing cone is only like 10 degrees or something very narrow like that iirc. What coderguy is saying is that a brighter projector can be brightness matched to a less bright projector by moving it more off-axis than the other less bright projector.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on January 04, 2018, 01:28:22 PM
I just realized that it has been about 15 years since Darin showed Tryg the HP and a star was born. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ask4me2 on January 04, 2018, 02:06:01 PM
A "HP" screen is a (now-discontinued) Da-Lite High Power screen. The screen material is retro-reflective which is very different to most screen materials which are angular-reflective. Due to the special optical coating this screen material can do up to 2.4-2.8 gain (depending on which revision of the screen you have) without excessive artifacts (like a large amount of sheen or sparkles). But the unique optical coating means that projector placement to get all that gain has to be ideal. Ideally you want the projector just over your head to achieve optimal results. The further you or the projector move off axis from center screen the less gain you'll get. The optimal viewing cone is only like 10 degrees or something very narrow like that iirc. What coderguy is saying is that a brighter projector can be brightness matched to a less bright projector by moving it more off-axis than the other less bright projector.

Thanks for the explanation Dylan Seeger, The HP screen may be a good brightness matching solution if the gain drops at the same rate over the entire projected picture.
"retro-reflective" sounds to me like something from the Airwolf TV series with the advanced prototype supersonic helicopter with stealth capabilities and silent mode etc.  ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on January 04, 2018, 02:43:59 PM
Wouldn't the primary colors need to be filtered by a yellow notch filter? I don't see how that can happen with the yellow portion of the color wheel is fixed in position and never actually "filters" the primary colors.
I'm pretty sure that Ruined thought that BC with a yellow segment on the colorwheel and a yellow notch filter did similar things, but they are complete opposites. One lets more yellow light through and one lets less yellow light through.
Brilliant color on most DLP units simply allows for color wheel segment overlap to occur.
There are 2 kinds like you say. Colors other than RGB on the colorwheel, and turning the mirrors on during the spoke time.

It looks to me like the new laser 1528p+eShift (what some call 4K UHD) projectors have RGBY colorwheels and reports I've read are that they run at 2x.

Sometimes it is hard for me to tell if Ruined is mostly clueless, or if he is just trying to keep from having to admit that he was wrong.

He keeps repeating that BC gives you more light for HDR, but ignores the part where I point out that only some colors get brighter. Adding a yellow segment on a colorwheel and then tightening up the filters for R and G actually results in less light for R and G. It helps push the R and G on the triangle out further, but at the expense of luminance for them.

He seems to have completely ignored the part where I mentioned that HDR isn't just about making white and yellow brighter, HDR is supposed to have brighter R, G, and B also. That isn't to say that these BC techniques might not be worth it overall, but they come at a cost.

--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on January 04, 2018, 04:15:41 PM
Wouldn't the primary colors need to be filtered by a yellow notch filter?

The way BC can expand gamut, is you can put in a yellow segment that's more saturated than the result of the green and red.  Of course you end up with a quadrilateral shaped gamut instead of a triangle.

And of course yellow really isn't where gamut needs to be expanded.  Most of the new area that DCI P3 and Rec.2020 bring are in the green and cyan areas.

Quote
When's the last time anyone had released a DLP unit with such a color wheel?

It seems the new laser "4K" DLPs are using RGBY wheels.  At least the Optoma is.  For some reason I thought the Acer was RGBRGB but now people are saying it's RGBY too.

Quote
What is Ruined's explanation at how this would work?

He doen't have an explanation, it's just the typical, anything DLP does is better.  Or more accurately anything Optoma does is better.  Like how low contrast is better because it's more like the theater.

I'm pretty sure that Ruined thought that BC with a yellow segment on the colorwheel and a yellow notch filter did similar things, but they are complete opposites. One lets more yellow light through and one lets less yellow light through.

Funny, see I was still giving him the benefit of the doubt...  I was assuming he meant that the yellow segment could pull yellow out (more saturated), but you might be right, he might think that RGBY is the same as RGB+Yellow Notch.  Or, more likely, he doesn't have a clue and will just say anything that his favored DLP projector does is better.  It will be funny when the UHZ75 comes out next year with a 4x RGBRGB wheel and his story changes completely.

Quote
Sometimes it is hard for me to tell if Ruined is mostly clueless, or if he is just trying to keep from having to admit that he was wrong.

I think it's both, I think he's clueless, and will say anything to make DLP sound good/viable.  When you can tease out of him what he really thinks, his personal position seems to be that the only things that matter are Laser, Brightness, and Sharpness, and probably in that order.  He seems to really think his priorities are "right" and that everyone else should follow them, and he'll say anything to make those priorities seem best/right.

Quote
He keeps repeating that BC gives you more light for HDR, but ignores the part where I point out that only some colors get brighter. Adding a yellow segment on a colorwheel and then tightening up the filters for R and G actually results in less light for R and G. It helps push the R and G on the triangle out further, but at the expense of luminance for them.

In "defense" of Dave, who seems to be the sole basis for Runt's whole treatise on BC, my guess is this:

The UHZ65 isn't terribly bright when calibrated correctly, both the UHD60 and UHD65 lost about 2/3 of their rated brightness when calibrated and were under 1000 Lumens.  That's OK for SDR, but not near enough for HDR.  So my guess is, Dave (who seems to calibrate mainly by eyerometer) found that the extra brightness with BC on was more beneficial for HDR than the negative of having the colors out of balance.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Peter Parker on January 04, 2018, 05:01:00 PM
There was a guy on a UK forum with a DLP pj who was saying that he didn't want anything better than a commercial theatre could provide, and that included contrast because he believed that because a director and DOP were shooting for commercial theatre with DLP projectors, and not for a domestic JVC, he didn't need anything better, like a JVC. I think Darin participated in that thread and was as equally bemused by his comments - he asked him if projector A provided a more pleasing image, and projector B ticked more boxes for matching a commercial theatre, Darin (like most people) said he would choose projector A. This guy said he'd do the opposite.

Then about two months later he was waxing lyrical about how much better his Sony 40 was with its better blacks and contrast. He tended to have the attitude that nothing was better than what he had so would argue against anything that was considered better, until he had it too, then it was his new benchmark and new standpoint. When questioned about his new Sony and what made him upgrade, he refused to answer. I'm sure it's not the same guy but maybe they are related?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 04, 2018, 05:28:12 PM
" calibrate mainly by eyerometer " - I like it. Although I think the correct term is " Eye - O - Meter " .  ::)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 04, 2018, 08:32:15 PM
Thanks for the explanation Dylan Seeger, The HP screen may be a good brightness matching solution if the gain drops at the same rate over the entire projected picture.
"retro-reflective" sounds to me like something from the Airwolf TV series with the advanced prototype supersonic helicopter with stealth capabilities and silent mode etc.  ;D

From any stationary viewing position brightness uniformity looks good with the HP material. However, if you were to get up and walk away from the screen you can definitely see the gain roll off as you move further and further away. HP screens were very popular 5+ years ago when people were looking to have a large screen paired with a high contrast projector. Before about 5 years ago, you couldn't really have both. You had to choose either high brightness or high contrast. The HP screen material let you have both given you set things up properly. But now-a-days we're spoiled with our high brightness and high contrast JVC, Sony and Epson projectors. But I suppose if you want a better HDR experience an HP screen can still make a lot of sense for better peak white brightness. But as I said previously, after seeing how great a reference unity gain screen like my ElunVision or the ST100 looks, I don't think I can go back. At this point I would rather go with a smaller screen to keep the image as artifact free as possible. Not that the HP screen was particularly bad with things like texture, sheen or sparkles, but it can't hold a candle to the unity gain screen materials.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on January 05, 2018, 10:09:26 AM
So I see Runt linked Kraine's review of the UHZ65.  Surprise suprise, it's nowhere near it's advertised 3000 Lumens calibrated.  The table he posted showed it only doing 1150 Lumens Calibrated. 

Not sure why anyone's surprised, it's exactly like the UHD's, about 1/3 the claimed Lumens once calibrated.  Of course it also throws doubt on some of the comments from folks who sell these things in the other forum too, since and RS540, which is about the same price, is about 50% brighter, 10x the contrast and full DCI-P3.

Maybe there's still a high margin on these things since reality seemingly hasn't derailed the hype train yet.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 05, 2018, 11:11:39 AM
So I see Runt linked Kraine's review of the UHZ65.  Surprise suprise, it's nowhere near it's advertised 3000 Lumens calibrated.  The table he posted showed it only doing 1150 Lumens Calibrated. 

Not sure why anyone's surprised, it's exactly like the UHD's, about 1/3 the claimed Lumens once calibrated.  Of course it also throws doubt on some of the comments from folks who sell these things in the other forum too, since and RS540, which is about the same price, is about 50% brighter, 10x the contrast and full DCI-P3.

Maybe there's still a high margin on these things since reality seemingly hasn't derailed the hype train yet.

Margin is not better. I do not understand why a dealer would push these. As you say, image is not as good and they are not as bright as what you can get with other brands. It certainly is not because it is higher profit.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 05, 2018, 11:54:09 AM
While I had the UHD65 (non laser version) the projector just felt very cheap. The chassis is glossy black and it scratches SO easily. The lens has a very bad offset which basically forces you to ceiling mount. Very limited lens shift and the menu system is a mess with many unintuitively named things in the menu system you weren't entirely sure what they did. You also had to play with the Brilliant Color setting see which setting was optimal. You could not disable it. There was very little in the way to calibrate the projector easily. Nothing like what you find on a JVC or Sony (clearly laid out and intuitive).

Though I will say there was nothing offensive about the image. Contrast was just "okay" at about ~4500:1 dynamic contrast. I've seen worse from other DLP units. The image was very sharp. I'd say it has an edge over the JVCs in this regard but the deficits in brightness, contrast and color do not make up for the slightly sharper looking image.  I just couldn't get over how cheap the UHD65 felt in both build quality and how the menu system was laid out. Considering these are the only two ways you actually interact with the projector (menu system and setting the projector up) I just felt Optoma could have done a LOT better. It really feels like they took a business projector and changed the case color from white to black.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on January 05, 2018, 12:36:58 PM
Margin is not better. I do not understand why a dealer would push these. As you say, image is not as good and they are not as bright as what you can get with other brands. It certainly is not because it is higher profit.

I'm sure you guys wouldn't make any more off an Optoma (less I'd guess), but I get the impression that these things are selling for at, or close to MSRP.  Just reading some of those DLP threads you get the feeling these things are giant slayers.  People keep comparing the UHZ65 to the VW885 as if they're even remotely similar in performance and features when the only thing they have in common is the word "Laser" on the spec sheet. 

JVC and Sony are pretty well known for what they are and what you can get them for, but these new DLPs are a new thing, and with all the hyperbole, I have to wonder if some "less integrous" sellers are taking advantage of the hype/hyperbole.  I mean if you're just in it to make a quick buck, it's a pretty easy sales pitch:

"Look at this, it's got laser and "true 4K" same as the Sony VW885, but it's only $4500 instead of $25,000, it's a great deal!"

That's what certain folks on the other forum are actually saying, and it's what lots of others are seemingly implying.  I went to one well known seller online, and they only offered about an 8% discount off MSRP once added to the cart.

Though I will say there was nothing offensive about the image. Contrast was just "okay" at about ~4500:1 dynamic contrast. I've seen worse from other DLP units. The image was very sharp. I'd say it has an edge over the JVCs in this regard but the deficits in brightness, contrast and color do not make up for the slightly sharper looking image.  I just couldn't get over how cheap the UHD65 felt in both build quality and how the menu system was laid out. Considering these are the only two ways you actually interact with the projector (menu system and setting the projector up) I just felt Optoma could have done a LOT better. It really feels like they took a business projector and changed the case color from white to black.

Isn't that what Optoma makes?  Same with BenQ (though their menus typically were pretty good), they both primarily make business units, and on the side they throw in a few tweaks, like an RGB colorwheel, FI, DI, maybe change the case color and call it "Home Theater".

As for the UHZ, I think we finally have the answer as to why it's got an RGBY colorwheel, without it, it would probably be dimmer than the UHD60, and then what's the sales pitch for the 2x price?

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Stereodude on January 05, 2018, 12:46:42 PM
As for the UHZ, I think we finally have the answer as to why it's got an RGBY colorwheel, without it, it would probably be dimmer than the UHD60, and then what's the sales pitch for the 2x price?
Does it come with it's own pot of gold at the end of the rainbows from the 2x color wheel?  ;)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 05, 2018, 12:51:00 PM
A few years ago, when I bought an RS600, I fully planned to not use the DI. That was one of the reasons I went with the 600 over the 500, since I wanted as much native contrast as I could get. I was pleasantly surprised how well the DI performed and ended up using it.

On this:

I have the RS400, and found the DI bothersome, with 'iris pumping' quite distracting.  I tried it numerous times, but each time decided it created more problems than it solved.  Two questions related to this:

1.  Does the 'double iris' on the RS500/RS600 line perform significantly better in this regard than the single iris of the RS400?

2.  My aperture now, for the last 6 months or so, doesn't work.  I put it in manual mode, and when I try to adjust it, the numbers on the screen display show it shutting down, but the aperture itself doesn't change.  Is it possible that it was never working properly, even when new, and that is why it was more intrusive?

Thanks.

P.S. Because I have a large screen screen (160" diagonal scope), for HDR I have the aperture open anyway, and even with regular Blu-ray, having it wide open still works fine.  And given the hassle of taking it down, getting it repaired, being without the projector for a few weeks, I've been reluctant to get it fixed.

Looks like this reply might have gone unnoticed, Mike.  If you have opportunity, would appreciate your thoughts.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 05, 2018, 01:09:22 PM
While I had the UHD65 (non laser version) the projector just felt very cheap. The chassis is glossy black and it scratches SO easily. The lens has a very bad offset which basically forces you to ceiling mount. Very limited lens shift and the menu system is a mess with many unintuitively named things in the menu system you weren't entirely sure what they did. You also had to play with the Brilliant Color setting see which setting was optimal. You could not disable it. There was very little in the way to calibrate the projector easily. Nothing like what you find on a JVC or Sony (clearly laid out and intuitive).

Though I will say there was nothing offensive about the image. Contrast was just "okay" at about ~4500:1 dynamic contrast. I've seen worse from other DLP units. The image was very sharp. I'd say it has an edge over the JVCs in this regard but the deficits in brightness, contrast and color do not make up for the slightly sharper looking image.  I just couldn't get over how cheap the UHD65 felt in both build quality and how the menu system was laid out. Considering these are the only two ways you actually interact with the projector (menu system and setting the projector up) I just felt Optoma could have done a LOT better. It really feels like they took a business projector and changed the case color from white to black.

That's my impression from the UHD60. That and light spill out the vent.  :o
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 05, 2018, 01:12:07 PM
Looks like this reply might have gone unnoticed, Mike.  If you have opportunity, would appreciate your thoughts.

I saw your post but hadn't had a chance to respond. Maybe the RS500 / 600, having much higher native contrast, just don't need the DI to work as much. I think the multiplier is a factor. I rarely saw the DI on my RS600 work, except on credits.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 05, 2018, 06:10:09 PM
Looks like this reply might have gone unnoticed, Mike.  If you have opportunity, would appreciate your thoughts.

Very few complain about the DI on the 400, so you must be pretty sensitive to a DI. The DI may be a little less noticeable on the 5 and 6 series, due to the much higher native contrast. Anyway, the big advantage of the 5 and 6 series, is the native contrast is high enough without the DI to still provide a very nice image.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 05, 2018, 06:28:46 PM
Very few complain about the DI on the 400, so you must be pretty sensitive to a DI. The DI may be a little less noticeable on the 5 and 6 series, due to the much higher native contrast. Anyway, the big advantage of the 5 and 6 series, is the native contrast is high enough without the DI to still provide a very nice image.

Thanks for the reply, Mike.  I do realize that the 5x0/6x0 series have the greater contrast.  But I had wondered if the double aperture that they have would be a factor in 'smoother' DI performance.  Thoughts?

I know this is guessing, but do you think the fact that my Aperture isn't functioning at all now might indicate DI wasn't performing to spec even when the Aperture did seem to work, and that would account for my finding it too intrusive?

I'm trying to decide if it's worth the hassle of taking it down, sending it in, possibly having it come back with different problems than now due to the inevitable potential for trauma with shipping.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on January 06, 2018, 10:21:00 AM
Thanks for the reply, Mike.  I do realize that the 5x0/6x0 series have the greater contrast.  But I had wondered if the double aperture that they have would be a factor in 'smoother' DI performance.  Thoughts?

I doubt it, AFAIK it's only the final aperture right at the lens exit that operates dynamically. 

Quote
I know this is guessing, but do you think the fact that my Aperture isn't functioning at all now might indicate DI wasn't performing to spec even when the Aperture did seem to work, and that would account for my finding it too intrusive?

Seems reasonable, if it was sticking, it could have had jerky operation when it should have been smooth.  If it's broken now, I wouldn't make any judgements on how it's supposed to work.

Quote
I'm trying to decide if it's worth the hassle of taking it down, sending it in, possibly having it come back with different problems than now due to the inevitable potential for trauma with shipping.

Only you can decide that.  But I'll say this, if you ever go to sell it, a broken aperture would dramatically affect resale value, for that reason alone I'd seriously consider getting it fixed.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 06, 2018, 10:35:32 AM
I doubt it, AFAIK it's only the final aperture right at the lens exit that operates dynamically. 

Seems reasonable, if it was sticking, it could have had jerky operation when it should have been smooth.  If it's broken now, I wouldn't make any judgements on how it's supposed to work.

Only you can decide that.  But I'll say this, if you ever go to sell it, a broken aperture would dramatically affect resale value, for that reason alone I'd seriously consider getting it fixed.

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking.  Dang, hate to go through the hassle, but you're probably right...
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 07, 2018, 02:30:33 PM
Yeah, that's what I've been thinking.  Dang, hate to go through the hassle, but you're probably right...

I've never been big on DI's myself, but it's pretty impressive on my RS440.  Some of the fades to black can be really nice.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 07, 2018, 02:54:40 PM
I've never been big on DI's myself, but it's pretty impressive on my RS440.  Some of the fades to black can be really nice.

They've gotten much better over the last few years, at least on the better home theater projectors !
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 07, 2018, 03:10:23 PM
I've never been big on DI's myself, but it's pretty impressive on my RS440.  Some of the fades to black can be really nice.

Yeah, I'm planning on sending it in.  I'll be heading out of town for about 10 days in February, so will ship it out a little before that.  Hopefully be back about when I return.  Now I've got to find some big guys to held me get it down and put it back up!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 08, 2018, 07:23:59 AM
I do see some occasional instances of a scene with consistent APL that will subtlety dim and brighten for a second.  Replaying those scenes with the auto iris off keeps it stable.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 08, 2018, 07:44:41 AM
I do see some occasional instances of a scene with consistent APL that will subtlety dim and brighten for a second.  Replaying those scenes with the auto iris off keeps it stable.

That's exactly what I was seeing (when my aperture was working, that is! :-X), and what led to my eventually just turning it off.  It made me much more conscious of the equipment, and not the movie.

But after it's fixed, I'll probably give it another try, and see if the benefits outweigh the negatives, especially if the DI works a bit more smoothly than it did before.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 08, 2018, 08:48:18 AM
That's exactly what I was seeing (when my aperture was working, that is! :-X), and what led to my eventually just turning it off.  It made me much more conscious of the equipment, and not the movie.

But after it's fixed, I'll probably give it another try, and see if the benefits outweigh the negatives, especially if the DI works a bit more smoothly than it did before.

It's interesting because I thought it was the scene of the movie or the photography - but it wasn't.  This just happened last night in particular after I was praising the fades (which are nice though).

Also, I realized something else; my manual iris right now is almost all of the way closed down for SDR which is what I have been watching lately (holding off on HDR titles until Chad B comes out next week).   The more the manual iris is closed down, the less difference one is likely to see between it and the auto 2 as I understand it.  The more the manual is open, the more the potential for variance compared to the auto iris.  On the other forum, check out Mozen's thread about the iris functioning....quite interesting.  I'm going to experiment with it more.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 08, 2018, 09:39:06 AM
No dynamic iris is ideal or perfect. They will all, no matter the brand, be visible on occasion (or often if it's a bad one). On the eshift units, as I don't know about the RS4500, I often notice some micro-flicker. This has been an "issue" since the first generation of JVCs with auto-irises. I took these videos a few years back when I had the X500, but this issue still happens on the 2018 models. You'll notice brightness flicker:

What the issue looks like on screen:
https://youtu.be/yQNQXOUSU7U
What the iris actually does to cause it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV0Xbrms1Sk

It seems like there is something in the algorithm that's sensitive to certain APL changes and the iris just can't make up it's mind on where to set the iris position. Or maybe it's hardware related where the iris device itself is extremely sensitive to voltage differences and the voltage regulator has coarse control over voltage and it's freaking the iris mechanism out a bit until it get the voltage right and this is what's causing the flicker. I don't know, it could be either. This is my only gripe with the DI implementation. I put issue in quotes before because this issue only happens on occasion and I don't think it's particularly bad. Overall it's one of the best DI implementations i've seen and I've seen a LOT of them.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DLCPhoto on January 08, 2018, 10:23:43 AM
It's interesting because I thought it was the scene of the movie or the photography - but it wasn't.  This just happened last night in particular after I was praising the fades (which are nice though).

Also, I realized something else; my manual iris right now is almost all of the way closed down for SDR which is what I have been watching lately (holding off on HDR titles until Chad B comes out next week).   The more the manual iris is closed down, the less difference one is likely to see between it and the auto 2 as I understand it.  The more the manual is open, the more the potential for variance compared to the auto iris.  On the other forum, check out Mozen's thread about the iris functioning....quite interesting.  I'm going to experiment with it more.

I know a lot more about photography than I do about projectors, so tend to think in those terms.

A typical camera will have sensors to detect light levels in a given scene, and it has a variety of algorithms to calculate an exposure based on those readings (matrix, center-weighted, spot, etc.).  My impression with DI is just as Dylan Seeger indicates, that small, essentially imperceptible fluctuations in brightness for certain 'key' areas (as defined by the algorithm in use) cause the aperture adjustment to tip one way or the other.

And since the iris adjustments are 'quantum' in nature, rather than providing a continuous adjustment, and possibly with some time lag as well, the scene will show corresponding visible changes in brightness.

For me, I didn't notice any obvious difference in black level during dark scenes, or fade to black, and only saw the iris pumping when it was present in other scenes.  So it seemed I was getting the side effects only, and none of the desirable primary effect, with DI, so I ended up turning it off.

I hope that this may have been due to a mechanical problem with my iris from the beginning, so maybe my experience will be better the next time around.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on January 08, 2018, 10:56:30 AM
Roxie and his sidekick Mori are taking a disliking to Kris in the VW885 thread.  Rather comical!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 08, 2018, 11:09:04 AM
Roxie and his sidekick Mori are taking a disliking to Kris in the VW885 thread.  Rather comical!

The messenger seems to get killed on that forum frequently. I need to head back over with some popcorn..... ::)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 08, 2018, 03:41:32 PM
roxiedog is an idiot. I really hope no one (other than his gang of know-nothings) falls for his childish attempt at making Kris's comments less true than they actually are. Kris not only has both projectors there, but he actually knows what he's talking about and how to properly measure and evaluate the projectors. I always find it funny when Sony fanboys think because they started an "owners" thread that no one other than an owner can comment, especially when (untrue) shade is being thrown at another brand. How deluded do you need to be to convince yourself that issues are not real? Even if the price is cheaper in Europe, 15,000 Euros is a lot for such issues to still be present. As Kris point out, if no one complains about them then they'll never get fixed. Are people like Roxiedog naive enough to think that Sony cares enough about something that they'll just fix it if no one is complaining about it? They act as if think Sony can do no harm.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Kris Deering on January 08, 2018, 03:43:03 PM
Yeah, it is unfortunate. I'm finding more and more that it just isn't worth it to post anything on AVS anymore. For what little good it does it is met with overwhelming crap from posters that really don't have a clue about anything. From Ruined to Roxie to JoeRod. It has completely sucked out any enjoyment for me. Here I thought I was actually providing useful data on the 885 thread to help clear up why people were seeing what they were seeing and then it turns into a downward spiral of accusations and BS. There is a reason that 99.9% of reviewers just don't post on forums. I might be one of them very soon.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 08, 2018, 04:02:09 PM
Yeah, it is unfortunate. I'm finding more and more that it just isn't worth it to post anything on AVS anymore. For what little good it does it is met with overwhelming crap from posters that really don't have a clue about anything. From Ruined to Roxie to JoeRod. It has completely sucked out any enjoyment for me. Here I thought I was actually providing useful data on the 885 thread to help clear up why people were seeing what they were seeing and then it turns into a downward spiral of accusations and BS. There is a reason that 99.9% of reviewers just don't post on forums. I might be one of them very soon.

You are more than welcome to post information here. We will keep things civil. The more information, the better. It's just a matter of helping folks make an informed decision regarding projector purchases.  We have no reason to not help everyone get the best out of whatever projector they buy - regardless of brand. 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 08, 2018, 04:07:10 PM
Yeah, it is unfortunate. I'm finding more and more that it just isn't worth it to post anything on AVS anymore. For what little good it does it is met with overwhelming crap from posters that really don't have a clue about anything. From Ruined to Roxie to JoeRod. It has completely sucked out any enjoyment for me. Here I thought I was actually providing useful data on the 885 thread to help clear up why people were seeing what they were seeing and then it turns into a downward spiral of accusations and BS. There is a reason that 99.9% of reviewers just don't post on forums. I might be one of them very soon.
Roxiedog13, Joerod and Mori are so clearly Sony fanboys and they will never admit any of the weaknesses, I really did a big LOL when Roxie came up with the point that the VW885 is selling like hotcakes. That is really a good argument of how good the projector is. I am actually happy I am banned at the other forum so I dont have to spend time arguing with those idiots.

It is so clear the three people mentioned in this post is totally clueless when it comes to AV and it is a disgrace they are allowed to keep it up at a so called Science forum.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 08, 2018, 04:07:41 PM
No dynamic iris is ideal or perfect. They will all, no matter the brand, be visible on occasion (or often if it's a bad one). On the eshift units, as I don't know about the RS4500, I often notice some micro-flicker. This has been an "issue" since the first generation of JVCs with auto-irises. I took these videos a few years back when I had the X500, but this issue still happens on the 2018 models. You'll notice brightness flicker:

What the issue looks like on screen:


This is exactly what I saw the other night. 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 08, 2018, 04:11:59 PM
This is exactly what I saw the other night.

The flicker is much less noticeable on the dual iris models. On my RS420 I see it all the time, on my Cineversum BW2 (RS520) I see it very rearly.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 08, 2018, 04:12:41 PM
Yeah, it is unfortunate. I'm finding more and more that it just isn't worth it to post anything on AVS anymore. For what little good it does it is met with overwhelming crap from posters that really don't have a clue about anything. From Ruined to Roxie to JoeRod. It has completely sucked out any enjoyment for me. Here I thought I was actually providing useful data on the 885 thread to help clear up why people were seeing what they were seeing and then it turns into a downward spiral of accusations and BS. There is a reason that 99.9% of reviewers just don't post on forums. I might be one of them very soon.

I was banned for life for squabbling with these guys. Honestly though, it's been nice not having to deal with all that nonsense. The only issue is that when people like yourself don't post, all the purposeful misinformation that these guys spout gets presented as fact. No one is there to call out the BS.

I agree with you in that the Sony projectors are excellent overall. Part of the problem with Sony fanboys is that they have a hard time accepting any issues at all with the projectors they own. If they'd just accept the issues, the arguments wouldn't go on for as long as they do. I also think them arguing about the issues does them a disservice because the longer the arguments go on the more the issues (no matter how small or big) get more attention and it makes them seem bigger than they really are.
 
I don't think you're going to have an issue posting here. No one here is going to give you the same troubles. I'm always interested in hearing your thoughts, especially when they confirm what I'm also seeing and experiencing.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 08, 2018, 04:17:56 PM
I was banned for life for squabbling with these guys. Honestly though, it's been nice not having to deal with all that nonsense. The only issue is that when people like yourself don't post, all the purposeful misinformation that these guys spout gets presented as fact. No one is there to call out the BS.

I don't think you're going to have an issue posting here. No one here is going to give you the same troubles. I'm always interested in hearing your thoughts, especially when they confirm what I'm also seeing and experiencing.

I think discussions is healthy and I have learned a lot after having discussions with both you, @Kris Deering and others, discussing with people like Roxiedog is not something anyone learns from and it only ends up in the wrong people getting banned. The way thing are developing at the other forum now is that the misinfo soon will become "facts" and then that forum is a total disaster.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 08, 2018, 07:58:19 PM
Yeah, it is unfortunate. I'm finding more and more that it just isn't worth it to post anything on AVS anymore. For what little good it does it is met with overwhelming crap from posters that really don't have a clue about anything. From Ruined to Roxie to JoeRod. It has completely sucked out any enjoyment for me. Here I thought I was actually providing useful data on the 885 thread to help clear up why people were seeing what they were seeing and then it turns into a downward spiral of accusations and BS. There is a reason that 99.9% of reviewers just don't post on forums. I might be one of them very soon.

You are very much welcome here. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DonH58 on January 08, 2018, 08:04:23 PM
Would it be possible to rename or modify the title of this thread to reflect the projector dialogue? There is a lot of useful, interesting discussion but it is lost under the title "Banned at AVSForum"...

IMO! - Don
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 08, 2018, 08:23:48 PM
Would it be possible to rename or modify the title of this thread to reflect the projector dialogue? There is a lot of useful, interesting discussion but it is lost under the title "Banned at AVSForum"...

IMO! - Don

How about " As The Color Wheel Turns - A Projector Soap Opera " .   ;D

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 08, 2018, 11:26:01 PM
Would it be possible to rename or modify the title of this thread to reflect the projector dialogue? There is a lot of useful, interesting discussion but it is lost under the title "Banned at AVSForum"...

IMO! - Don

I started this tread in frustration over being unfairly banned (now I see it as a blessing) for life at the other forum, and even if the tread has derailed into other discussions (like most treads do) it it still mostly about the reason so I dont see the point in modify the title. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 09, 2018, 05:17:59 AM
Would it be possible to rename or modify the title of this thread to reflect the projector dialogue? There is a lot of useful, interesting discussion but it is lost under the title "Banned at AVSForum"...

IMO! - Don

What would we call it? Might be better if we would make the projector posts in the projector threads. Might help jump start some of them.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on January 09, 2018, 06:01:55 AM
What would we call it?

AVSForum Anonymous?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 09, 2018, 09:31:42 AM
The last post of Roxiedog13 simply shows his complete ignorance and how completely clueless he is.

Roxiedog13 wrote in the Sony 885 owners tread.
Quote:
Actually ,I totally disagree. I wouldn't buy a panel van to drive to work alone and then expect it to yield the same efficiency as a compact car. Product are made to work in a given range, outside that range there will be compromises . Any salesmen that recommends a panel van to their customer when a econobox is a perfect fit, cheaper, and absolutely more efficient is doing the customer a disservice . Expecting the panel van to operate efficiently is unrealistic .

The compromise you refer to sounds like every new design coming . The focus is on increased detail it would seem , and all manufacturers are headed in the same direction. Sharpness, detail , motion and color are improving, native contrast is not the priority any longer, I wonder why ? Quote end. LOL
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on January 09, 2018, 09:38:18 AM
The last post of Roxiedog13 simply shows his complete ignorance and how completely clueless he is.

Roxiedog13 wrote in the Sony 885 owners tread.
Quote:
Actually ,I totally disagree. I wouldn't buy a panel van to drive to work alone and then expect it to yield the same efficiency as a compact car. Product are made to work in a given range, outside that range there will be compromises . Any salesmen that recommends a panel van to their customer when a econobox is a perfect fit, cheaper, and absolutely more efficient is doing the customer a disservice . Expecting the panel van to operate efficiently is unrealistic .

The compromise you refer to sounds like every new design coming . The focus is on increased detail it would seem , and all manufacturers are headed in the same direction. Sharpness, detail , motion and color are improving, native contrast is not the priority any longer, I wonder why ? Quote end. LOL

I don't know half of what most of you guys and others know but this guy takes the word moron to a new level!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on January 09, 2018, 09:47:53 AM
...native contrast is not the priority any longer, I wonder why ? Quote end. LOL

Probably because they can't reasonably do anything to improve it.

Would be fun to see these "contrast denier"s comments if their preferred brand came out with a game-changing improvement in contrast.  I'm sure they'd all say contrast is the most important thing ever, whatever their adopted children do well is always the most important thing in the world, and everything else is always irrelevant with these guys.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on January 09, 2018, 11:35:25 AM
The last post of Roxiedog13 simply shows his complete ignorance and how completely clueless he is.
He's so clueless that he claims he wasn't talking about the iris and has no idea about it, yet the post he claimed to disagree with was clearly about the lack of manual control of an iris that is already in the projector. R & R over there would probably make the best of friends.

--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 09, 2018, 12:33:21 PM
The way ccool96 defends Sony in the 885 tread is simply pathetic, he should be neutral as he is claiming to be a dealer of many projector brands. But it is not difficult to se he is simply a Sony fanboy.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on January 09, 2018, 06:51:45 PM
The way ccool96 defends Sony in the 885 tread is simply pathetic, he should be neutral as he is claiming to be a dealer of many projector brands. But it is not difficult to se he is simply a Sony fanboy.

I haven't been able to figure him out.

The last post of Roxiedog13 simply shows his complete ignorance and how completely clueless he is.

Roxiedog13 wrote in the Sony 885 owners tread.
Quote:
Actually ,I totally disagree. I wouldn't buy a panel van to drive to work alone and then expect it to yield the same efficiency as a compact car. Product are made to work in a given range, outside that range there will be compromises . Any salesmen that recommends a panel van to their customer when a econobox is a perfect fit, cheaper, and absolutely more efficient is doing the customer a disservice . Expecting the panel van to operate efficiently is unrealistic .

The compromise you refer to sounds like every new design coming . The focus is on increased detail it would seem , and all manufacturers are headed in the same direction. Sharpness, detail , motion and color are improving, native contrast is not the priority any longer, I wonder why ? Quote end. LOL

I don't even understand how this is even close to an analogy about projectors. Is the Sony a panel van or an econobox? :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DonH58 on January 09, 2018, 09:14:27 PM
What would we call it? Might be better if we would make the projector posts in the projector threads. Might help jump start some of them.

I understand how the thread changed focus, just felt a title enhancement would help the info here not get lost. I came from AVSForum and am interested in projectors but not in the market at the moment.

Maybe "Banned at AVSForum/4K Projector Talks"?

Not a big deal to me except someone coming here to research projectors will have no idea to look for this thread and may ironically be a victim of whatever misinformation is on AVSForum.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 09, 2018, 10:27:41 PM
I guess I can put it back on subject. I do not know what I can and can't post on AVSF and not get an infraction. I got three points for this post:

I will tell you that anyone saying the Sony is sharper is being biased or did not notice ringing from RC being turned up. The Sony 885 is a fantastic projector, but it does not quite have the sharpness of the JVC 4500. The advantages of the Sony are: size, weight, noise level and price.

Added
Maybe I took this wrong and you are talking about the lamp based JVC vs the native 4K Sony? If so, I agree the Native 4K is sharper than the E-shift JVC's, but they are pretty close and will be hard to tell a difference with video content. Just like they are close with motion, but the edge goes to the Sony.

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Stereodude on January 09, 2018, 11:19:42 PM
FWIW, I mentioned to Scott W. and Mark H. in person today when I ran into them at CES that AVSForum has turned into a complete joke with the wrong people being banned and what not simply for posting facts and correcting misinformation.  Mark seemed aware of it and thanked me for bringing it to the forefront of his mind, but Scott wasn't aware.  They thanked me for the feedback and said they would discuss it with others.  No idea if anything will change, but I tried to do my part.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on January 10, 2018, 02:19:55 AM
I guess I can put it back on subject. I do not know what I can and can't post on AVSF and not get an infraction. I got three points for this post:

I will tell you that anyone saying the Sony is sharper is being biased or did not notice ringing from RC being turned up. The Sony 885 is a fantastic projector, but it does not quite have the sharpness of the JVC 4500. The advantages of the Sony are: size, weight, noise level and price.

Added
Maybe I took this wrong and you are talking about the lamp based JVC vs the native 4K Sony? If so, I agree the Native 4K is sharper than the E-shift JVC's, but they are pretty close and will be hard to tell a difference with video content. Just like they are close with motion, but the edge goes to the Sony.

That is ridiculous, did this happen today or earlier? I dont remember seeing that post.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on January 10, 2018, 02:20:13 AM
FWIW, I mentioned to Scott W. and Mark H. in person today when I ran into them at CES that AVSForum has turned into a complete joke with the wrong people being banned and what not simply for posting facts and correcting misinformation.  Mark seemed aware of it and thanked me for bringing it to the forefront of his mind, but Scott wasn't aware.  They thanked me for the feedback and said they would discuss it with others.  No idea if anything will change, but I tried to do my part.

Good stuff, thanks.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 10, 2018, 03:15:10 AM
I guess I can put it back on subject. I do not know what I can and can't post on AVSF and not get an infraction. I got three points for this post:

I will tell you that anyone saying the Sony is sharper is being biased or did not notice ringing from RC being turned up. The Sony 885 is a fantastic projector, but it does not quite have the sharpness of the JVC 4500. The advantages of the Sony are: size, weight, noise level and price.

Added
Maybe I took this wrong and you are talking about the lamp based JVC vs the native 4K Sony? If so, I agree the Native 4K is sharper than the E-shift JVC's, but they are pretty close and will be hard to tell a difference with video content. Just like they are close with motion, but the edge goes to the Sony.

This clearly shows how stupid the moderation on the other forum has become, how can that post qualify for infraction points?

Did you get an explanation why you got 3 points for that post?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on January 10, 2018, 04:27:06 AM
I guess I can put it back on subject. I do not know what I can and can't post on AVSF and not get an infraction. I got three points for this post:

I will tell you that anyone saying the Sony is sharper is being biased or did not notice ringing from RC being turned up. The Sony 885 is a fantastic projector, but it does not quite have the sharpness of the JVC 4500. The advantages of the Sony are: size, weight, noise level and price.

Added
Maybe I took this wrong and you are talking about the lamp based JVC vs the native 4K Sony? If so, I agree the Native 4K is sharper than the E-shift JVC's, but they are pretty close and will be hard to tell a difference with video content. Just like they are close with motion, but the edge goes to the Sony.

This is ridiculous and I remember reading that post Mike.  It's clear they are getting ad money or something from Sony and allowing the Sony bias to encompass that forum. 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 10, 2018, 05:30:57 AM
F--- that place already! lol
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 10, 2018, 05:49:11 AM
That is ridiculous, did this happen today or earlier? I dont remember seeing that post.

I was banned for a day for a PM I made. Then when the ban was lifted last night, I have several notices from AVSF with infractions.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 10, 2018, 05:52:05 AM
This clearly shows how stupid the moderation on the other forum has become, how can that post qualify for infraction points?

Did you get an explanation why you got 3 points for that post?

Reason: Spammed Advertisements
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on January 10, 2018, 06:11:15 AM
I was banned for a day for a PM I made. Then when the ban was lifted last night, I have several notices from AVSF with infractions.

PM's aren't PRIVATE?  :o  ???  ;D  ;)

They are ruining the forums. I came/go there to learn something. The new Panasonic 4k player thread had 1 or 2 useful post and then turned into a Panasonic bashing. The "Warner Bros. Announces HDR10+ Support" immediately turned into bunch of malcontent children wanting everything now!   :(  >:(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 10, 2018, 06:25:17 AM
PM's aren't PRIVATE?  :o  ???  ;D  ;)

Apparently not on AVSF.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 10, 2018, 06:57:56 AM
Apparently not on AVSF.

I hope that's not true!  :-X :o
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Stereodude on January 10, 2018, 07:52:09 AM
I hope that's not true!  :-X :o
I'm not sure if they really are from the forum software perspective or not.  It's also possible he's being trolled and people are reporting the PMs.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 10, 2018, 07:52:29 AM
I hope that's not true!  :-X :o

The reason for the ban stated I had asked a poster to contact me outside of the forum. In a PM I asked a poster to call me. Only way to get that information is to have read my PM's.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 10, 2018, 07:53:36 AM
I'm not sure if they really are from the forum software perspective or not.  It's also possible he's being trolled and people are reporting the PMs.

Not trolled. When I got back on, the same poster was thanking me for the help and asking additional questions. Also for the last year, I have not contacted people by PM, other than a couple of friends. I only respond to PM's sent to me. I have now turned off PM's.

One of the posts that they gave me an infraction for:

Question by another poster:
Is there a JVC model coming soon to directly compete with the new Sony VW885ES?

"There is one now. It is called an RS4500 B-stock. Better lens, more lumens and same 3 year warranty. I do not know of anything new coming at the 885 MSRP price point."
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Peter Parker on January 10, 2018, 08:38:22 AM
Blimey, I think a lot of people qualify for an infraction if that's what you were penalised for as it's accurate and you're not the only one who has said it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 10, 2018, 09:42:53 AM
Blimey, I think a lot of people qualify for an infraction if that's what you were penalised for as it's accurate and you're not the only one who has said it.

yes but even though they qualify...some posters can get reported and reported and nothing happens...a select few (myself included) got infractions and bans for close to nothing (as in replied to a question in a for sale thread...and calling an MBM a "ghetto blaster").

I was also a member since 2001 and was part of their "tagging team" which i basically worked for them...but they didnt care
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on January 10, 2018, 10:32:24 AM
I guess I can put it back on subject. I do not know what I can and can't post on AVSF and not get an infraction. I got three points for this post:

I will tell you that anyone saying the Sony is sharper is being biased or did not notice ringing from RC being turned up. The Sony 885 is a fantastic projector, but it does not quite have the sharpness of the JVC 4500. The advantages of the Sony are: size, weight, noise level and price.

Added
Maybe I took this wrong and you are talking about the lamp based JVC vs the native 4K Sony? If so, I agree the Native 4K is sharper than the E-shift JVC's, but they are pretty close and will be hard to tell a difference with video content. Just like they are close with motion, but the edge goes to the Sony.

I don't see anything remotely "advertisey" about that post.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 10, 2018, 10:41:43 AM
I inquired about the infractions and was told:

"Your relationship with any manufacturer would be irrelevant on AVS Forum as you are always to be posting as an individual, not a seller. Best to not discuss products you sell at all in that case."

So How do I post anything at all. I guess I could go into the TCL TV threads and post or the DIY speaker area.

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 10, 2018, 11:25:48 AM
I hope that's not true!  :-X :o

Oh I can tell you it is true. If I link this discussion site in my Pm's to people over there, they will give me an infraction. And  they have. It's like having the NSA watching you !  >:(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on January 10, 2018, 11:32:59 AM
I inquired about the infractions and was told:

"Your relationship with any manufacturer would be irrelevant on AVS Forum as you are always to be posting as an individual, not a seller. Best to not discuss products you sell at all in that case."

So How do I post anything at all. I guess I could go into the TCL TV threads and post or the DIY speaker area.

I assume Cleveland Plasma, Dave Harper and the others have all paid the protection money so they can post about stuff they sell?

I mean Dave's all over the Optoma threads talking about his distributors/availability, and his clients.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 10, 2018, 11:49:11 AM
I assume Cleveland Plasma, Dave Harper and the others have all paid the protection money so they can post about stuff they sell?

I mean Dave's all over the Optoma threads talking about his distributors/availability, and his clients.

Does seem to be a little one sided, doesn't it. Supposedly you can get infractions from people complaining about your post. About a year and a half ago, I complained about a post with blatantly low street pricing. I received a warning that I could get an infraction for making the complaint. They said it was not against the rules. Ever since then, I have not touched the complaint button.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 10, 2018, 11:55:41 AM
Lee Weber, one of the mods, has a store in Boston I believe.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: woofer on January 10, 2018, 01:58:48 PM
Apparently not on AVSF.

Yes, they are definitely NOT private..  >:(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stanger89 on January 10, 2018, 02:39:34 PM
Yes, they are definitely NOT private..  >:(

FWIW, I don't really expect PMs to be truly private on a forum.  But there's just something wrong about automatically scanning every PM for keywords/phrases, or worse, what appears to be going on there, mods/admins actually reading every PM from a select group of individuals just for justification to ban them.  That's just terrible.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 10, 2018, 02:42:07 PM
Lee Weber, one of the mods, has a store in Boston I believe.

Yeah, AVS carries his speakers.  They remind me of Triad.  Mike G posted them on this forum.

It's Next Level Acoustics.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: BlackRiderX on January 10, 2018, 04:09:23 PM
Hi guys. I finally joined up on here when I read the info on the email that was sent out today. I thought I was the only one who had a bad experience with a mod over there lately.

Sometime during the last year, I want to say last spring, I got an infraction and email claiming I had two accounts. They took it upon themselves to delete the one I have used since the site opened, and left me with a second account that was barely used. I was not sure what was going on and did not remember having any other accounts. Perhaps it was someone else in my house, or maybe I had a different account back in the day. I honestly did not remember, but I sent a very nice email to the mod asking if there was anyway they could reinstate the account I always used and had history with, instead of the barely used account. I got a nasty email back threatening to ban me in response.

I pretty much gave up on that forum, save for when I needed to buy my JVC from Craig.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 10, 2018, 04:19:59 PM
I assume Cleveland Plasma, Dave Harper and the others have all paid the protection money so they can post about stuff they sell?

I mean Dave's all over the Optoma threads talking about his distributors/availability, and his clients.

Yes, and ccool96, he is pushing the Sony brand for all it is worth. Does it say he is a Sony dealer in his signature? No... A dealer should not be able to post like ccool96 in my opinion.

I think it is very bad the way they are treating their users differently at the other forum.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 10, 2018, 04:22:58 PM
Hi guys. I finally joined up on here when I read the info on the email that was sent out today. I thought I was the only one who had a bad experience with a mod over there lately.

Sometime during the last year, I want to say last spring, I got an infraction and email claiming I had two accounts. They took it upon themselves to delete the one I have used since the site opened, and left me with a second account that was barely used. I was not sure what was going on and did not remember having any other accounts. Perhaps it was someone else in my house, or maybe I had a different account back in the day. I honestly did not remember, but I sent a very nice email to the mod asking if there was anyway they could reinstate the account I always used and had history with, instead of the barely used account. I got a nasty email back threatening to ban me in response.

I pretty much gave up on that forum, save for when I needed to buy my JVC from Craig.

That's pretty sad. Let's get this forum more active and we won't have to worry what they do over there. And you know where I'm at now ( here ) !! 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 10, 2018, 04:46:52 PM
Hi guys. I finally joined up on here when I read the info on the email that was sent out today. I thought I was the only one who had a bad experience with a mod over there lately.

Sometime during the last year, I want to say last spring, I got an infraction and email claiming I had two accounts. They took it upon themselves to delete the one I have used since the site opened, and left me with a second account that was barely used. I was not sure what was going on and did not remember having any other accounts. Perhaps it was someone else in my house, or maybe I had a different account back in the day. I honestly did not remember, but I sent a very nice email to the mod asking if there was anyway they could reinstate the account I always used and had history with, instead of the barely used account. I got a nasty email back threatening to ban me in response.

I pretty much gave up on that forum, save for when I needed to buy my JVC from Craig.

Wow, that's a real shame!  If they play games with me like that I'm telling them where to go and they can ban me.  After the things I've heard today I would rather spend most of my time on this forum.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 10, 2018, 05:25:01 PM
uh oh!  Sony fanyboy alert! lol   ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Ccool96 on January 10, 2018, 05:32:55 PM
Yes, and ccool96, he is pushing the Sony brand for all it is worth. Does it say he is a Sony dealer in his signature? No... A dealer should not be able to post like ccool96 in my opinion.

I think it is very bad the way they are treating their users differently at the other forum.

I can't help but comment, since you seem desperate to talk about me. Have you ever taken the time to read all of my post? Clearly not. I hate that you have been banned, and you are having some sort of pity party, but I didn't have anything to do with you being banned.

Actually if you look at my post, just recently I said how ridiculous it is that so many good people are being banned. And the AVS will regret it when everyone there is gone.

But please elaborate on how I push Sony?? Do I like Sony projectors, Yes! Do I personally own them and use them, Yes. Do i think they have issues, absolutely!

I also own or have owned multiple JVC projectors, RS1, RS2, RS4810, RS600, and RS4500. I praised the RS600 for almost a solid year, for how great it was even compared to my Sony 5000ES, especially considering the cost difference.

I guess you were fine with my post, as long as they favored JVC?

And I don't push any product on AVS. I don't ever write "PM me or Call me" In my 10+ years on AVS I have only sold a handful of items.

I am on AVS, because I have a passion for AV, not because I need the money. I have been financially secure since the day I was born. I have befriended a small group of AVS guys over the years, and I have worked with that small group whenever approached, but thats really not the issue at hand.

But so you don't look and sound uneducated on the facts, I suggest you go back and read thru my 1000+ post. I have no Sony agenda. I have had many Sony projectors, many JVC projectors, many DPI and Sim2 projectors, and Barco projectors. I have no loyalty to any one brand. And I try to buy units that best fit my install.

But by all means feel free to continue to talk about how "I push Sony for all its worth". If you would even read back just a little ways you would see where I spent a month bashing Sony over a bad firmware they sent out for 5000ES projectors, which bricked many units. And how horrible and slow their response was to that issue. Oh, and that I have said numerous times that the dynamic laser dimming on the 885, is just flat out broken and doesn't work. Yep, thats a way to push products!

I have come to understand that Mike is emailing all his clients saying how he is being targeted at AVS for selling products, but again that has nothing to do with me.

But by all means, continue.....
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 10, 2018, 05:44:37 PM
To be fair, I've talked to Chris before via email and PM at AVS (before I was banned) and he was very candid and honest about answering questions I had about the 5000ES. The questions were specifically about issues that previous 4k SXRD models had and if they were still there on the 5000ES. He more or less confirmed that they were still there to some degree. That's the complete opposite with some other members over there who knowingly lie and defend Sony simply because they want to protect the brand image of the projector brand they own.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 10, 2018, 05:57:55 PM
I have no problems with Chris.  He used to be very active in the JVC RS-500/600 thread.  :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 10, 2018, 06:02:03 PM
I also want to add that there is nothing wrong with preferring Sony over JVC. I think many people get the impression that JVC fanboys (and vice versa) won't accept the opinion from pro-Sony people that the image they're seeing is "better". Everyone has the right to prefer any brand or technology over any other. Who am I to say that you don't prefer the image from a Sony projector? The only issue I take with most of the pro-Sony members on the other forum is that most will not admit to or accept some of the inherent issues that all 4K SXRD projectors have. This is where most of the problems and arguments stem from on that forum. You just don't see the same kind of conscious refusal of issues on the JVC side and this is what bothers me. From the conversations I've had with Chris, he doesn't seem to be like most of the pro-Sony guys over at AVS when it comes to this. I actually had no idea he was a dealer before today. I assumed he was just an enthusiast like most of us here.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 10, 2018, 06:02:39 PM
I can't help but comment, since you seem desperate to talk about me. Have you ever taken the time to read all of my post? Clearly not. I hate that you have been banned, and you are having some sort of pity party, but I didn't have anything to do with you being banned.

Actually if you look at my post, just recently I said how ridiculous it is that so many good people are being banned. And the AVS will regret it when everyone there is gone.

But please elaborate on how I push Sony?? Do I like Sony projectors, Yes! Do I personally own them and use them, Yes. Do i think they have issues, absolutely!

I also own or have owned multiple JVC projectors, RS1, RS2, RS4810, RS600, and RS4500. I praised the RS600 for almost a solid year, for how great it was even compared to my Sony 5000ES, especially considering the cost difference.

I guess you were fine with my post, as long as they favored JVC?

And I don't push any product on AVS. I don't ever write "PM me or Call me" In my 10+ years on AVS I have only sold a handful of items.

I am on AVS, because I have a passion for AV, not because I need the money. I have been financially secure since the day I was born. I have befriended a small group of AVS guys over the years, and I have worked with that small group whenever approached, but thats really not the issue at hand.

But so you don't look and sound uneducated on the facts, I suggest you go back and read thru my 1000+ post. I have no Sony agenda. I have had many Sony projectors, many JVC projectors, many DPI and Sim2 projectors, and Barco projectors. I have no loyalty to any one brand. And I try to buy units that best fit my install.

But by all means feel free to continue to talk about how "I push Sony for all its worth". If you would even read back just a little ways you would see where I spent a month bashing Sony over a bad firmware they sent out for 5000ES projectors, which bricked many units. And how horrible and slow their response was to that issue. Oh, and that I have said numerous times that the dynamic laser dimming on the 885, is just flat out broken and doesn't work. Yep, thats a way to push products!

I have come to understand that Mike is emailing all his clients saying how he is being targeted at AVS for selling products, but again that has nothing to do with me.

But by all means, continue.....

I have only told a small percentage of people.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Ccool96 on January 10, 2018, 06:13:16 PM
Dylan and Tom,

I truly appreciate both of your comments.

Im not in the RS600 thread much anymore, but I still have my RS600.

Once I loaded the custom gamma curves it fixed the main issue I had with the unit which was the default HDR performance. Now it looks great with HDR.

Its hanging in my master bedroom and I use it every single night.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: JoeRod on January 10, 2018, 06:14:37 PM
So this is where the gang is all hanging out? I actually miss our dust-ups. Seegs, Andreas, Kris, etc... And I don’t mind everyone talking about me. I am excited I was included in some of the discussions here. I do find it interesting that the majority here are jvc owners. That is an odd trend. Anyway, I won’t jump in here on my first post and start a war... I just wanted to say Happy New Year to everyone and yes I do miss you all...

Carry on...
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Ccool96 on January 10, 2018, 06:15:38 PM
I have only told a small percentage of people.

Gotcha.

I just meant that I was just hearing about what was happening. I do think its ridiculous, but my point was that I certainly had nothing to do with that.

I actually had been wondering why I haven't seen many post from you on AVS.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 10, 2018, 06:24:00 PM
Dylan and Tom,

I truly appreciate both of your comments.

Im not in the RS600 thread much anymore, but I still have my RS600.

Once I loaded the custom gamma curves it fixed the main issue I had with the unit which was the default HDR performance. Now it looks great with HDR.

Its hanging in my master bedroom and I use it every single night.

Yes, I remember all of us trying to get a good HDR picture once the Samsung 8500 UHD player was released and buying the HD Fury Integral to get SDR2020.  So long ago! lol  Then Manni & Arve come along and take it to the next level. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 10, 2018, 07:59:13 PM
Yeah, AVS carries his speakers.  They remind me of Triad.  Mike G posted them on this forum.

It's Next Level Acoustics.

Gotcha - I had been curious about that.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 10, 2018, 08:04:44 PM
I am excited about the next (hopefully) firmware update for the Oppo, giving it HDR tone mapping along the lines of the Lumagen. That will make the Oppo the player to have in my opinion.

Added
I should have quoted the post about the Samsung 8500. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 10, 2018, 10:11:00 PM
I can't help but comment, since you seem desperate to talk about me. Have you ever taken the time to read all of my post? Clearly not. I hate that you have been banned, and you are having some sort of pity party, but I didn't have anything to do with you being banned.

Actually if you look at my post, just recently I said how ridiculous it is that so many good people are being banned. And the AVS will regret it when everyone there is gone.

But please elaborate on how I push Sony?? Do I like Sony projectors, Yes! Do I personally own them and use them, Yes. Do i think they have issues, absolutely!

I also own or have owned multiple JVC projectors, RS1, RS2, RS4810, RS600, and RS4500. I praised the RS600 for almost a solid year, for how great it was even compared to my Sony 5000ES, especially considering the cost difference.

I guess you were fine with my post, as long as they favored JVC?

And I don't push any product on AVS. I don't ever write "PM me or Call me" In my 10+ years on AVS I have only sold a handful of items.

I am on AVS, because I have a passion for AV, not because I need the money. I have been financially secure since the day I was born. I have befriended a small group of AVS guys over the years, and I have worked with that small group whenever approached, but thats really not the issue at hand.

But so you don't look and sound uneducated on the facts, I suggest you go back and read thru my 1000+ post. I have no Sony agenda. I have had many Sony projectors, many JVC projectors, many DPI and Sim2 projectors, and Barco projectors. I have no loyalty to any one brand. And I try to buy units that best fit my install.

But by all means feel free to continue to talk about how "I push Sony for all its worth". If you would even read back just a little ways you would see where I spent a month bashing Sony over a bad firmware they sent out for 5000ES projectors, which bricked many units. And how horrible and slow their response was to that issue. Oh, and that I have said numerous times that the dynamic laser dimming on the 885, is just flat out broken and doesn't work. Yep, thats a way to push products!

I have come to understand that Mike is emailing all his clients saying how he is being targeted at AVS for selling products, but again that has nothing to do with me.

But by all means, continue.....

Thank you. Lack of communication - which is sometimes the norm on the internet, due to long intervals and easy misunderstandings, is IMO the cause of 90% of the problems on forums etc. Thanks for chiming in. I'm sure this is exactly why you and Kris chatted on the phone - easy to clear the air talking. Not so easy typing.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 10, 2018, 10:16:43 PM
So this is where the gang is all hanging out? I actually miss our dust-ups. Seegs, Andreas, Kris, etc... And I don’t mind everyone talking about me. I am excited I was included in some of the discussions here. I do find it interesting that the majority here are jvc owners. That is an odd trend. Anyway, I won’t jump in here on my first post and start a war... I just wanted to say Happy New Year to everyone and yes I do miss you all...

Carry on...

Welcome Joe. Some of the gang can't say hi at AVS forum anymore, so glad to see you. We don't need to " start a war ". We just need to remember why we do get so passionate at times - we all love home theater. You have a cool theater, and you love having friends over for movie nights just like I do. And you've got one hell of a cool projector.   8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 10, 2018, 10:18:51 PM
I am excited about the next (hopefully) firmware update for the Oppo, giving it HDR tone mapping along the lines of the Lumagen. That will make the Oppo the player to have in my opinion.

Added
I should have quoted the post about the Samsung 8500. :)

You may be right about the Oppo. Panasonic is adding some cool new features to their new player, so at least there are going to be some very good choices shortly - a lot better than 2 years ago !
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 11, 2018, 12:30:05 AM
I can't help but comment, since you seem desperate to talk about me. Have you ever taken the time to read all of my post? Clearly not. I hate that you have been banned, and you are having some sort of pity party, but I didn't have anything to do with you being banned.

Actually if you look at my post, just recently I said how ridiculous it is that so many good people are being banned. And the AVS will regret it when everyone there is gone.

But please elaborate on how I push Sony?? Do I like Sony projectors, Yes! Do I personally own them and use them, Yes. Do i think they have issues, absolutely!

I also own or have owned multiple JVC projectors, RS1, RS2, RS4810, RS600, and RS4500. I praised the RS600 for almost a solid year, for how great it was even compared to my Sony 5000ES, especially considering the cost difference.

I guess you were fine with my post, as long as they favored JVC?

And I don't push any product on AVS. I don't ever write "PM me or Call me" In my 10+ years on AVS I have only sold a handful of items.

I am on AVS, because I have a passion for AV, not because I need the money. I have been financially secure since the day I was born. I have befriended a small group of AVS guys over the years, and I have worked with that small group whenever approached, but thats really not the issue at hand.

But so you don't look and sound uneducated on the facts, I suggest you go back and read thru my 1000+ post. I have no Sony agenda. I have had many Sony projectors, many JVC projectors, many DPI and Sim2 projectors, and Barco projectors. I have no loyalty to any one brand. And I try to buy units that best fit my install.

But by all means feel free to continue to talk about how "I push Sony for all its worth". If you would even read back just a little ways you would see where I spent a month bashing Sony over a bad firmware they sent out for 5000ES projectors, which bricked many units. And how horrible and slow their response was to that issue. Oh, and that I have said numerous times that the dynamic laser dimming on the 885, is just flat out broken and doesn't work. Yep, thats a way to push products!

I have come to understand that Mike is emailing all his clients saying how he is being targeted at AVS for selling products, but again that has nothing to do with me.

But by all means, continue.....

I am not desperate to write about you (I have posted about you twice).

I just think it is the way you defend Sony and that you are a dealer that is not a good combination, I know about your history with projectors and you own and have owned many brands, but that does not change your defence. I also known you have bashed Sony for many things, but that does not change your defence now.  I think all dealers of AV equipment should identify themselves as a dealer if they need the money selling or not, but that is a forum problem. The biggest AV forum in Norway has very strict dealer rules and all dealers have to identify themselves as a dealer, if not and it gets out it will result in a ban.

But to me it gets a little silly when people (you included) say there must be something wrong when people can prefer the Z1 before the 885 in the tests done earlier. I have actually done the same earlier when it came to the VW1000/1100 compared to JVC models of the time, but when I bought a JVC and compared I had to admit I was wrong. And yes I know you had a couple of Z1/RS5400 earlier.

I also know you have nothing to do with me getting banned, and the way some are now there is not much of a reason needed to get the lifetime ban. I never got a reason after many emails trying to get an answer, I only got the message I insulted a lot of members. In Norway nothing I wrote would be considered insults, but that is another story. I have actually received threats (threatening to kill me) in PM´s at AVS and the sender is still posting there and I did report it I can assure you. I am not after pity, but I think the way the other forum is runned now is not the way to run a forum, I am actually glad I am not allowed to post there anymore. :)

This is an answer to the bolded/underlined sentence. If you read my posts over the years at AVS you would also see that I am not a fanboy of any brand, I have owned more Sonys than JVC´s during the years and also many DLP´s and Epsons. So you implying I am a JVC fan like many of the others at AVS is simply far from the truth.

After reading Dylans and others posts about you I am sure I was wrong so I apologize calling you out, but I think you as a dealer should be a little more careful about how you speak about brands. It can be misinterpreted by people, me included.

Do you have a company/store or do you just sell for fun not needing the money?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Ccool96 on January 11, 2018, 06:39:00 AM
I am not desperate to write about you (I have posted about you twice).

I just think it is the way you defend Sony and that you are a dealer that is not a good combination, I know about your history with projectors and you own and have owned many brands, but that does not change your defence. I also known you have bashed Sony for many things, but that does not change your defence now.  I think all dealers of AV equipment should identify themselves as a dealer if they need the money selling or not, but that is a forum problem. The biggest AV forum in Norway has very strict dealer rules and all dealers have to identify themselves as a dealer, if not and it gets out it will result in a ban.

But to me it gets a little silly when people (you included) say there must be something wrong when people can prefer the Z1 before the 885 in the tests done earlier. I have actually done the same earlier when it came to the VW1000/1100 compared to JVC models of the time, but when I bought a JVC and compared I had to admit I was wrong. And yes I know you had a couple of Z1/RS5400 earlier.

I also know you have nothing to do with me getting banned, and the way some are now there is not much of a reason needed to get the lifetime ban. I never got a reason after many emails trying to get an answer, I only got the message I insulted a lot of members. In Norway nothing I wrote would be considered insults, but that is another story. I have actually received threats (threatening to kill me) in PM´s at AVS and the sender is still posting there and I did report it I can assure you. I am not after pity, but I think the way the other forum is runned now is not the way to run a forum, I am actually glad I am not allowed to post there anymore. :)

This is an answer to the bolded/underlined sentence. If you read my posts over the years at AVS you would also see that I am not a fanboy of any brand, I have owned more Sonys than JVC´s during the years and also many DLP´s and Epsons. So you implying I am a JVC fan like many of the others at AVS is simply far from the truth.

After reading Dylans and others posts about you I am sure I was wrong so I apologize calling you out, but I think you as a dealer should be a little more careful about how you speak about brands. It can be misinterpreted by people, me included.

Do you have a company/store or do you just sell for fun not needing the money?

Andreas,

First of all, thank you for the apology. I have always tried to be careful about how I post, especially knowing how people take things out of content. I never post a lie or purposely try to mis-lead anyone. 

I have never praised Sony as the "end all / be all" of the projector world. I have spoke about the pros and cons of the 885, which I do believe is a very good projector. Just as I have spoke about the pros and cons of the RS4500,  RS600, or other previous JVC models. Each have their own strength and weaknesses but again both are fantastic projectors. 

I spoke with Kris Deering on Tuesday and we are both on the same exact page regarding the 885. Just as I said then, which he agreed, that I don't believe a "manual" iris setting will ever be added to this unit. It was never listed as a feature of the unit and no one even knew the unit had one until someone caught a video of it. Would it be great if they "turned it on"? Absolutely. But I think people are fooling themselves if they are just waiting for this to happen.

But I do think Sony can offer a few firmware updates which would fix some of these issues, without the need of this iris.

I believe they should increase the "dimming range" of the laser power setting. If the laser power is set to 0, it needs to put out even less light, so those with small or high-gain screen can easily target their desired fL for SDR. Even though from the best I can tell, this really isn't an issue except for a couple people with fairly small, high-gain screens.

I also believe Sony should be able to issue a firmware update to address the "non-functioning" dynamic dimming. There currently is no benefit to this feature at all. They have done a good job in with their "Dynamic Iris" systems, so I believe Sony can improve on this "Dynamic Laser Dimming".

I never said any A/B (Sony - JVC) demo was biased, or rigged in JVC's favor. I never weighted in at all on the John Schuermann's shootout. I did weigh in when Arrow demo'd a JVC RS4500 against the Sony 885, especially when one unit was calibrated and the other wasn't, to which he stated. I did say that I couldn't understand how Bandyka could say the JVC RS4500 "killed" the 885 in contrast, when Arrow confirmed they were both setup with a Native contrast between 16-17K:1 with matched light output. Now it seems clear the "Dynamic dimming" is broken on the 885, so the RS4500 should certainly preforms better in low APL scenes, especially if the DI features were enables on both units.

Both of these shootouts had guys who favored each of the units. I think a lot of these things come down to a person's budget and what aspects of an image are most important to them.

I run a 5000ES stack, so I can light up my 17' wide Stewart Vistascope 2-way masking screen at one house. I have a single 5000ES on a 14' wide 2.0 4-way masking screen at another house. Both of these units look great, especially on these large screens. But do I want even brighter units, and even higher native contrast? Heck Yes I do!

I am not a huge fan of DI tricks, and one reason I have always enjoyed my RS600 in my bedroom. It has incredible native contrast, and I don't have to deal with any trade-offs of DI.

And no, I do not have a storefront, and I don't push products on any AVS members. I am a dealer mainly so I can buy products for myself, and for other family and friends. I have been a member of AVS for about 13 years. I can tell you I haven't sold 13 projectors on AVS in all my years online. So thats less than one projector a year.

I hope within the next few years I will be able to move away from projectors completely, and have some sort of huge "LED Micro-Tile" display. 

Thanks,
Chris







Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Ccool96 on January 11, 2018, 06:47:34 AM
I also want to add to what @Javs said.

This site needs to be compatible with Tapatalk. It is all but unusable on my phone.

I told Alan Gouger the same exact thing just a couple weeks ago in regards to his dci-forum website.

I understand Mike's point about not wanting for them to having access to all the data, but if people can't easily follow this site, it will never grow.

Even if it never works with Tapatalk, it certainly needs a "Mobile-Friendly" version!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 11, 2018, 07:00:44 AM
I also want to add to what @Javs said.

This site needs to be compatible with Tapatalk. It is all but unusable on my phone.

I told Alan Gouger the same exact thing just a couple weeks ago in regards to his dci-forum website.

I understand Mike's point about not wanting for them to having access to all the data, but if people can't easily follow this site, it will never grow.

Even if it never works with Tapatalk, it certainly needs a "Mobile-Friendly" version!

I agree. Not everybody is sitting at a desk with a computer handy.

Added
Hope to have an answer on this in a few days. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 11, 2018, 07:23:25 AM
Andreas,

First of all, thank you for the apology. I have always tried to be careful about how I post, especially knowing how people take things out of content. I never post a lie or purposely try to mis-lead anyone. 

I have never praised Sony as the "end all / be all" of the projector world. I have spoke about the pros and cons of the 885, which I do believe is a very good projector. Just as I have spoke about the pros and cons of the RS4500,  RS600, or other previous JVC models. Each have their own strength and weaknesses but again both are fantastic projectors. 

I spoke with Kris Deering on Tuesday and we are both on the same exact page regarding the 885. Just as I said then, which he agreed, that I don't believe a "manual" iris setting will ever be added to this unit. It was never listed as a feature of the unit and no one even knew the unit had one until someone caught a video of it. Would it be great if they "turned it on"? Absolutely. But I think people are fooling themselves if they are just waiting for this to happen.

But I do think Sony can offer a few firmware updates which would fix some of these issues, without the need of this iris.

I believe they should increase the "dimming range" of the laser power setting. If the laser power is set to 0, it needs to put out even less light, so those with small or high-gain screen can easily target their desired fL for SDR. Even though from the best I can tell, this really isn't an issue except for a couple people with fairly small, high-gain screens.

I also believe Sony should be able to issue a firmware update to address the "non-functioning" dynamic dimming. There currently is no benefit to this feature at all. They have done a good job in with their "Dynamic Iris" systems, so I believe Sony can improve on this "Dynamic Laser Dimming".

I never said any A/B (Sony - JVC) demo was biased, or rigged in JVC's favor. I never weighted in at all on the John Schuermann's shootout. I did weigh in when Arrow demo'd a JVC RS4500 against the Sony 885, especially when one unit was calibrated and the other wasn't, to which he stated. I did say that I couldn't understand how Bandyka could say the JVC RS4500 "killed" the 885 in contrast, when Arrow confirmed they were both setup with a Native contrast between 16-17K:1 with matched light output. Now it seems clear the "Dynamic dimming" is broken on the 885, so the RS4500 should certainly preforms better in low APL scenes, especially if the DI features were enables on both units.

Both of these shootouts had guys who favored each of the units. I think a lot of these things come down to a person's budget and what aspects of an image are most important to them.

I run a 5000ES stack, so I can light up my 17' wide Stewart Vistascope 2-way masking screen at one house. I have a single 5000ES on a 14' wide 2.0 4-way masking screen at another house. Both of these units look great, especially on these large screens. But do I want even brighter units, and even higher native contrast? Heck Yes I do!

I am not a huge fan of DI tricks, and one reason I have always enjoyed my RS600 in my bedroom. It has incredible native contrast, and I don't have to deal with any trade-offs of DI.

And no, I do not have a storefront, and I don't push products on any AVS members. I am a dealer mainly so I can buy products for myself, and for other family and friends. I have been a member of AVS for about 13 years. I can tell you I haven't sold 13 projectors on AVS in all my years online. So thats less than one projector a year.

I hope within the next few years I will be able to move away from projectors completely, and have some sort of huge "LED Micro-Tile" display. 

Thanks,
Chris

The problem with going brighter and get even more contrast is normally not what happens, but I think JVC and Sony has done a good job keeping the contrast as high as they have with the brightness increase. But for people with normal size screens and SDR the brightness has been enough for some years, not if you prefer 100+ nits when watching SDR though (personally I like around 16-18fl). Now that HDR has come we need more brightness, but for me personally I will not accept a big increase in blacklevel so I am stuck with a Cineversum BW2 (JVC RS520) and not bright enough for the specular highlights for HDR as I can only manage around 80-90 nits in 2.35:1 mode and the iris at 0. I think blacklevels and contrast is as important or even more important than brightness even when it comes to HDR. It is not called High Dynamic Rage for nothing. I also don´t think 15000:1 is enough contrast to call it HDR.

To get something we can call "real" HDR on really big screens we need to wait for things like Samsungs The Wall or we need to get a personal Dolby Cinema at home. :)

I am impressed when I read about the new 85" Sony TV with 10000nits in the spec, I actually did not think we would see that in many years. I have not had the pleasure yet to visit a Dolby Cinema as no such thing exist in Scandinavia. But I actually think we would have a much better HDR experience at home with projectors if the same standard was implemented for HT and then "only" 100nits would be enough. But for people like you that prefers brightness that would not do it. Personally I think 30fl and 100IRE at full screen when coming from a dark scene (it happens sometimes) is way to bright even with my puny 10 feet wide screen and when the size increases the same brightness looks even brighter. There is a reason for both THX and ISF has set a "standard" at around 50nits, but it is only a recommendation and when I calibrate for customers I always listen to their preference and calibrate to the brightness they want.

I also think the "LED Micro-Tile" is the future of HT, but I think it will be a while before normal people with normal wallets can afford one. And we also have the problem with it being non acoustical for people using AT screens. For me that is not a problem as I don´t use AT screens.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on January 11, 2018, 07:30:41 AM
So this is where the gang is all hanging out? I actually miss our dust-ups. Seegs, Andreas, Kris, etc... And I don’t mind everyone talking about me. I am excited I was included in some of the discussions here. I do find it interesting that the majority here are jvc owners. That is an odd trend. Anyway, I won’t jump in here on my first post and start a war... I just wanted to say Happy New Year to everyone and yes I do miss you all...

Carry on...

Where's the IGNORE button?  :) ;) :D ;D :( :o 8) ::) :'(
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 11, 2018, 07:36:05 AM
Where's the IGNORE button?  :) ;) :D ;D :( :o 8) ::) :'(

I asked myself the exact same question when I read his post. ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on January 11, 2018, 08:05:37 AM
Dylan and Tom,

I truly appreciate both of your comments.

Im not in the RS600 thread much anymore, but I still have my RS600.

Once I loaded the custom gamma curves it fixed the main issue I had with the unit which was the default HDR performance. Now it looks great with HDR.

Its hanging in my master bedroom and I use it every single night.

I too have appreciated Chris's participation over at AVS and he has always been a poster whose opinion I valued.   However that place just gets overrun w/ misinformation and complete and utter blind brand loyalty.  I have owner Sony and now JVC projectors and I am only loyal to one entity, me and my happiness w/ my equipment.  Every-time I post over there I accuse do being a troll as if I talk about the RS4500 all the time and how great it is and if you go back and read the posts that's not the case at all.  Anytime a few obvious posters post over there blatantly post incorrect info and you try to bring it to light they are afforded free reign to dismiss anything that's said and criticize people who are just trying to make sure all the info being put forth in that thread is factual so that people that might be in the market aren't give false representation of a given unit.   Some people will just gloss over a projectors faults just because the want to think they have the best projector on the face of the earth or so that they think there's is better than another unit it's constantly compared to.  It's so stupid.  No projector is perfect and I'll be the first to be open about the the fan noise on the RS4500, the poor hdmi sync times and the want for more native (which applies to just about everyone that has a projector). 

If  AVS wanted to make their forum more informative they should put post restrictions on some people that constantly flood the threads w/ misinformation and personal attacks.   I am guilty of the attacks too to one individual (bark,bark) b/c there is absolute no reasoning with them and it tends to push you over the edge.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on January 11, 2018, 08:06:37 AM
I am excited about the next (hopefully) firmware update for the Oppo, giving it HDR tone mapping along the lines of the Lumagen. That will make the Oppo the player to have in my opinion.

Added
I should have quoted the post about the Samsung 8500. :)

I saw this, but if you have custom gamma curves already loaded up will you use it?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 11, 2018, 08:10:54 AM
I saw this, but if you have custom gamma curves already loaded up will you use it?

No.  The Oppo is outputting a 2.4 gamma, so that is ideally what you would target while using the feature/tone map.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 11, 2018, 08:22:06 AM
I saw this, but if you have custom gamma curves already loaded up will you use it?

Do not know, but will be interesting to see. I believe Kris uses the tone mapping of the Lumagen over custom gamma curves. So if oppo's implementation is good, then it will be very welcome. Especially so that owners do not have to go through the learning process of custom curve design.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 11, 2018, 08:23:00 AM
Honestly, I think everyone here is pretty much on the same page.  I think everyone in this thread wants the best projector for his purpose and needs along with price factored into it, of course.  I also think everyone here wants the REALITY about the positives and negatives of every projector which is opposite to what is going on at the other forum among too many people there. 

I too am not brand loyal as I've owned A LOT of Sony displays (LCD, SXRD RPTV, direct view CRT, SD CRT RPTV, HD CRT RPTV), Toshiba CRT, Samsung plasma, Insignia LCD, Panasonic (ST30, VT60 plasmas), Epson (LS10000) and several JVC projectors.  I simply go with what I feel is the best based on my preferences, reliability, and money I am willing to spend at that time.     
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 11, 2018, 08:43:07 AM
I saw this, but if you have custom gamma curves already loaded up will you use it?

The new Panasonic, being able to re-map 4000 nit movies to 1000 nits sounds more useful to me with the custom gamma curves, but I may wind up with both players at some point. Maybe the Oppo will gain that feature too.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 11, 2018, 09:03:42 AM
Yep, rather than push one brand over the other, I usually list the positive and negatives for each model. But, you also have to take into account the screen and screen gain, along with throw. Reason being, if let's say we are comparing a VW385 with an RS640. If the screen is small enough or has enough gain, the DCI P3 filter can be a pretty big advantage for the JVC with HDR. If the screen is going to be big enough that it will not be able to be used, then the DCI P3 filter is a smaller factor. Just like I do not count the DCI P3 filter in the Epson 5040 as a huge factor. The 5040 has so little light output with filter engaged, that I do not know a single person that uses it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 11, 2018, 09:19:16 AM
The new Panasonic, being able to re-map 4000 nit movies to 1000 nits sounds more useful to me with the custom gamma curves, but I may wind up with both players at some point. Maybe the Oppo will gain that feature too.

The new Panasonic does sound very interesting.  I just sold my UB900 as I figure it will take a big drop with the new units coming out soon - will ride it out with my Oppo for a while and see how the Panasonic 420/820 turn out in reliable hands.  Chad will be out Tuesday for my RS440. :)  I have about 20-plus UHD BDs waiting here.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on January 11, 2018, 10:28:08 AM
Just as I said then, which he agreed, that I don't believe a "manual" iris setting will ever be added to this unit.
...
I also believe Sony should be able to issue a firmware update to address the "non-functioning" dynamic dimming.
You think it is more likely that Sony will change their DI algorithms to be like their other projectors (where it did help intra-image CR in low level scenes) than to allow the user to pick the iris position? I'm not so sure about that.

I think there is a pretty good chance that adding the iris option would take less time to implement and test, and would get more bang for the buck as far as selling this projector model. It would be pretty easy to explain to people how adding the adjustable iris feature brought something good to the user, as opposed to basically admitting that the dynamic dimming didn't work very well in the first release. That is, marketing a new feature like the iris should be easier than marketing that they have now fixed something that was poorly implemented.

Even if Sony doesn't enable iris position choices in this model, I think it is good if people keep reminding them why it would be advantageous for many people (including those who want very different white levels for SDR than for HDR), so that in follow-on models they think about enabling this feature.

--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Ccool96 on January 11, 2018, 04:43:07 PM
You think it is more likely that Sony will change their DI algorithms to be like their other projectors (where it did help intra-image CR in low level scenes) than to allow the user to pick the iris position? I'm not so sure about that.

I think there is a pretty good chance that adding the iris option would take less time to implement and test, and would get more bang for the buck as far as selling this projector model. It would be pretty easy to explain to people how adding the adjustable iris feature brought something good to the user, as opposed to basically admitting that the dynamic dimming didn't work very well in the first release. That is, marketing a new feature like the iris should be easier than marketing that they have now fixed something that was poorly implemented.

Even if Sony doesn't enable iris position choices in this model, I think it is good if people keep reminding them why it would be advantageous for many people (including those who want very different white levels for SDR than for HDR), so that in follow-on models they think about enabling this feature.

--Darin

Yes, that’s my personal opinion.  I had a long talk with Kris Deering yesterday, and he also thinks it’s a long shot that Sony will ever do anything with the iris.

If they would increase the dimmable range of the laser, so people can target a lower fL for small or high-gain screens, I would consider that a reasonable solution. And personally I think that should be super simple, unless the laser doesn’t function properly at a lower power. 
 
But again, I would love for Sony to add manual control of the iris, I’m just not holding my breath. Even better, enable the dynamic abilities of the iris, especially if the dynamic laser dimming isn’t easy to improve.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: JoeRod on January 11, 2018, 06:06:00 PM
Where's the IGNORE button?  :) ;) :D ;D :( :o 8) ::) :'(
I asked myself the exact same question when I read his post. ;D

No worries. I will stay over there and leave this site to you guys. Though we know a few of you are posting over there under different names. This means you. Lol

Take care and good luck. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 11, 2018, 06:37:46 PM
Yes, that’s my personal opinion.  I had a long talk with Kris Deering yesterday, and he also thinks it’s a long shot that Sony will ever do anything with the iris.

If they would increase the dimmable range of the laser, so people can target a lower fL for small or high-gain screens, I would consider that a reasonable solution. And personally I think that should be super simple, unless the laser doesn’t function properly at a lower power. 
 
But again, I would love for Sony to add manual control of the iris, I’m just not holding my breath. Even better, enable the dynamic abilities of the iris, especially if the dynamic laser dimming isn’t easy to improve.

My guess is, to save costs, the control board for the laser may actually be less refined than what's found in the 5000ES. This may be the cause for the crudeness of the laser dimming on the 885ES. We saw the same thing happen with LED control. Only OSRam with their RAPCUR module offered a powerful competent LED control module that offered fine step gradation and the speed necessary to act as a suitable replacement for a physical dynamic iris. The RAPCUR module was only found in the most costly LED based projectors.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 11, 2018, 08:00:34 PM
My guess is, to save costs, the control board for the laser may actually be less refined than what's found in the 5000ES. This may be the cause for the crudeness of the laser dimming on the 885ES. We saw the same thing happen with LED control. Only OSRam with their RAPCUR module offered a powerful competent LED control module that offered fine step gradation and the speed necessary to act as a suitable replacement for a physical dynamic iris. The RAPCUR module was only found in the most costly LED based projectors.

Except ccool96 said the dynamic dimming is also not very good on the 5000 and that nobody used it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Ccool96 on January 11, 2018, 08:25:53 PM
Except ccool96 said the dynamic dimming is also not very good on the 5000 and that nobody used it.

Correct on the dynamic laser dimming. Not usable in my opinion.

But there is one major difffence between the two units.

With the 5000ES there is a huge Reduction in light output from max laser power to min laser power.  About a 75% reduction.  Max power, OOTB you can easily get 4800. At min power I got around 1200 lumens. So you can decrease the light output by 75% from max to min.  On the 885, this range is far far narrower.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 11, 2018, 08:38:49 PM
Chris I know you dislike dynamic contrast systems, but subjectively do you find the RS4500 or 5000ES better of in terms of visibility and artifacts. I know JVC has released several firmware updates that have helped performance with the laser dimming. If you HAD to use one, which would it be?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Ccool96 on January 11, 2018, 09:02:13 PM
Chris I know you dislike dynamic contrast systems, but subjectively do you find the RS4500 or 5000ES better of in terms of visibility and artifacts. I know JVC has released several firmware updates that have helped performance with the laser dimming. If you HAD to use one, which would it be?

If I had to use one today, I would use the JVC.

It does provide a visual increase in contrast and helps lower black floor, but I can see it working.

The Sony “dynamic dimming” is only good for total fade to black. That’s it. 

The Sony “dynamic iris” definitely works better than the “dynamic laser dimming”.

But since the 5000ES is really the commercial GTZ270, which didn’t offer some of these features originally, I think Sony spent very little time on the “dynamic dimming”.

I do believe they have the ability to offer top-notch “dynamic laser dimming” system, if they were to put effort into it, like they did for their “dynamic iris” system.

Hopefully the 885, being solely designed for home cinema and not the commercial market, will cause Sony to really invest the time and effort needed to improve the dynamic laser dimming. 

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 11, 2018, 09:43:34 PM
Good to know. I really need to get around seeing the RS4500. It's really the only projector that's piqued my interest that I haven't had the chance to view here in my theater. I've kind of written off the Sony 4Ks. Personally I find the banding and posterization artifacts too much of an oversight on Sony's part especially considering they've had since the 1000ES to fix it. Having had a 285ES here recently, I know the issue is still present. I find that it takes away too much potential fine detail from the image.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 12, 2018, 05:43:47 AM
Good to know. I really need to get around seeing the RS4500. It's really the only projector that's piqued my interest that I haven't had the chance to view here in my theater. I've kind of written off the Sony 4Ks. Personally I find the banding and posterization artifacts too much of an oversight on Sony's part especially considering they've had since the 1000ES to fix it. Having had a 285ES here recently, I know the issue is still present. I find that it takes away too much potential fine detail from the image.

Sounds like you need to take a short trip to Rochester. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on January 12, 2018, 07:01:21 AM
Sounds like you need to take a short trip to Rochester. :)

Or buy one from Amazon, test it and return it!  ;) All 85.9 lbs of it!!   ::)

I WANT loan you my credit card!  :D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 12, 2018, 07:46:43 AM
Or buy one from Amazon, test it and return it!  ;) All 85.9 lbs of it!!   ::)

I WANT loan you my credit card!  :D

I doubt you can find a new RS4500 for sale on Amazon. The way that projector has to be sold, probably makes it so that it can't be sold on Amazon. I just did a search on Amazon and got zero hits. You also get zero hits for a VW5000.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 12, 2018, 11:44:59 AM
Sounds like you need to take a short trip to Rochester. :)

Haha I know! But I always have a hard time judging relative performance in a different room, on a different screen, with different source hardware and with different (often never before seen) source material.  However,  if I'm in the Rochester area I'll definitely stop by.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 12, 2018, 12:30:17 PM
Haha I know! But I always have a hard time judging relative performance in a different room, on a different screen, with different source hardware and with different (often never before seen) source material.  However,  if I'm in the Rochester area I'll definitely stop by.

You ever get out to Northern CA ? You're welcome to come see mine.  :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Burnsze15 on January 13, 2018, 10:49:30 AM
Does anyone know if “FattyKid” ever made it over here with us from the AVS Banned Club? I’ve got a question for him on a DIY build he did last year.

Thx!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 13, 2018, 11:43:05 AM
Does anyone know if “FattyKid” ever made it over here with us from the AVS Banned Club? I’ve got a question for him on a DIY build he did last year.

Thx!

I don't think so.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 14, 2018, 12:41:27 PM
this aimed at you guys??  this is in classifieds stickied.....i get a kick out of "our members are treated this way" lol hat a joke

"It has come to our attention that despite agreeing to our forum rules when joining, several members have been violating these by trolling the site for potential customers preying on our membership for a buck.

The ONLY avenue for self-promotion on this site is with paid advertising through VerticalScope.

Report all veiled attempts at marketing such as "PM/email/call me", "I sell these" and "see my site" to staff for immediate action. As always, this includes both public posts as well as private messages.

We've had to terminate accounts in the last year and will continue to do so moving forward.

Our members are not to treated this way. AVS Forum is and always has been a safe place for people to share information without the burden of used car salesmen tactics."
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 14, 2018, 12:52:51 PM
this aimed at you guys??  this is in classifieds stickied.....i get a kick out of "our members are treated this way" lol hat a joke

"It has come to our attention that despite agreeing to our forum rules when joining, several members have been violating these by trolling the site for potential customers preying on our membership for a buck.

The ONLY avenue for self-promotion on this site is with paid advertising through VerticalScope.

Report all veiled attempts at marketing such as "PM/email/call me", "I sell these" and "see my site" to staff for immediate action. As always, this includes both public posts as well as private messages.

We've had to terminate accounts in the last year and will continue to do so moving forward.

Our members are not to treated this way. AVS Forum is and always has been a safe place for people to share information without the burden of used car salesmen tactics."

What do you think?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 14, 2018, 01:18:45 PM
this aimed at you guys??  this is in classifieds stickied.....i get a kick out of "our members are treated this way" lol hat a joke

"It has come to our attention that despite agreeing to our forum rules when joining, several members have been violating these by trolling the site for potential customers preying on our membership for a buck.

The ONLY avenue for self-promotion on this site is with paid advertising through VerticalScope.

Report all veiled attempts at marketing such as "PM/email/call me", "I sell these" and "see my site" to staff for immediate action. As always, this includes both public posts as well as private messages.

We've had to terminate accounts in the last year and will continue to do so moving forward.

Our members are not to treated this way. AVS Forum is and always has been a safe place for people to share information without the burden of used car salesmen tactics."

It's aimed at everyone that is a dealer - Arrow, Javs, anybody. It's like a trip wire. Be careful.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 14, 2018, 03:52:54 PM
AVS Discussions on mobile phone. Try it on your mobile devices. I have tested it a little bit and it appears to work very well.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 14, 2018, 03:56:10 PM
YES! works awesome!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 14, 2018, 05:10:06 PM
Much better now. :)

Edit: One thing I found with phone - Galaxy 8 : when I click on who "liked" my post, the name of the person doesn't show - it just shows a blank blue bar.  No biggie, but just noting.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: darinp on January 14, 2018, 06:39:12 PM
AVS Forum is and always has been a safe place for people to share information without the burden of used car salesmen tactics."
Yet we still have the "burden" of people who aren't actually making money on their posts, but post pretty much the same thing they would if they were working for one of the marketing departments.

--Darin
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on January 15, 2018, 09:24:44 PM
What do you think?

I saw that... interesting, will be careful.

Meanwhile, anyone read the RS600 thread over there lately, geez that Manni is infallible apparently!

Im sure he reported me to a mod when I started questioning/asking about a couple things then being the nice guy he is goes off on an epic rant attacking my credibility essentially. You cant say a single thing to that guy without his glass shield breaking and sending him into shutdown mode.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 16, 2018, 01:31:14 AM
I saw that... interesting, will be careful.

Meanwhile, anyone read the RS600 thread over there lately, geez that Manni is infallible apparently!

Im sure he reported me to a mod when I started questioning/asking about a couple things then being the nice guy he is goes off on an epic rant attacking my credibility essentially. You cant say a single thing to that guy without his glass shield breaking and sending him into shutdown mode.

Tell me about it! ;D

Manni hates me after I reported a flaw in the JVC Autocal system for the RS400/500/600 and was so insulted when I told him I personally don´t like bt1886 gamma on the JVC´s. He reported every post I posted and he will not even talk to me.  LOL

There is still a link in the Autocal tread that says why he is not contributing anymore courtesy Andreas21. I asked him to remove it when he started posting again and then he threatened to stop posing again... 8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 16, 2018, 04:06:13 AM
i am thinking there are ALOT of people (especially on HT boards) that are socially awkward...and thrive at being "good" at something i.e. home theater knowledge (typing on a keyboard).  then the truth comes out of who they are when faced with adversity....
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 16, 2018, 05:16:34 AM
Yup, I've noticed Manni can be a bit touchy.  :o ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Peter Parker on January 16, 2018, 06:38:00 AM
Manni a bit 'touchy'? Lol, he can be a complete ar$e for no real reason - he has a huge ego. Someone once posted thanks to various people regarding something, and Manni then went into one about how helpful he has been etc - he was upset he wasn't being thanked. I think he also threatened to stop posting there too - he sees his leaving a thread as a punishment to those who desperately need his skills...

He will also point out that he has posted stuff earlier in a thread if someone later posts something similar. I tested that out on another forum just to see, and sure enough he said that he'd already mentioned that and posted a link to his previous post.

I've seen him go into complete meltdown trashing Sony projectors to Sony owners and telling them how much better his JVC is etc, and again with the Epson laser.

As useful as he can be, it's got to the stage now that i usually just scroll past his posts as they're often just so much noise, which is a shame.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 16, 2018, 09:32:59 AM
well when your SN is part of what women love to get done weekly...its no wonder he acts that way hahahah

pm me if you cant figure it out
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: SOWK on January 17, 2018, 10:35:37 AM
So this is where all the naughty people hang out. :D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 17, 2018, 10:39:05 AM
So this is where all the naughty people hang out. :D

No, not me!  ;D ::) :-X :P
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 17, 2018, 11:06:19 AM
So this is where all the naughty people hang out. :D

Welcome SOWK.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: SOWK on January 17, 2018, 11:21:02 AM
Welcome SOWK.

I feel silly that I just found out about this forum a few days ago.

Thank you for the welcome Mike.

I made a general "finished" theater so we can condense all the "finished" theater pictures into one super cool thread.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: SOWK on January 17, 2018, 11:25:19 AM
I hear anyone that joins this forum gets products at cost!... Is that right Mike? :D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 17, 2018, 12:41:57 PM
I hear anyone that joins this forum gets products at cost!... Is that right Mike? :D

Sometimes below cost. Ask the guys that got in on the RS400 and RS600 deal a few weeks ago. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on January 17, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
I hear anyone that joins this forum gets products at cost!... Is that right Mike? :D

Yes, that's right. And Mike and Craig's second job paid for their RS4500's!  ;)  ::)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 17, 2018, 03:06:55 PM
Yes, that's right. And Mike and Craig's second job paid for their RS4500's!  ;)  ::)

This is my first and second job !  ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 17, 2018, 03:18:13 PM
Yes, that's right. And Mike and Craig's second job paid for their RS4500's!  ;)  ::)

I do not have a second job. I work 60 to 80 hours a week at this one. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on January 18, 2018, 09:49:01 AM
I do not have a second job. I work 60 to 80 hours a week at this one. :)

Not surprised to hear that! I'm sure you pay a lot more for phone and internet service than I do (I'm cheap! (real cheap!!))!   ;)

When I'm ready for a JVC, I will be calling avscience.  :) I've blacked out my room so much, I can see the black floor of my Hw45es!  :o I need a projector with a manual iris.  ;)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on January 20, 2018, 02:40:10 PM
Apparently I have now sent Manni away from the forums...

Gee, what a loss. I don't know what I will do with myself now that I don't have his arrogance around.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 20, 2018, 02:49:24 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT90D0GKZRM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT90D0GKZRM)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 21, 2018, 01:20:25 AM
Apparently I have now sent Manni away from the forums...

Gee, what a loss. I don't know what I will do with myself now that I don't have his arrogance around.

Manni is just acting like a diva and he gets what he wants, people beg him to stay and it makes him feel important. He is only after recognition and he takes all credit himself even if others contribute.

You are now his enemy. ;D

I really liked your All hail Manni comment... 8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stridsvognen on January 21, 2018, 02:41:09 AM
Dont you people think its a bit low slandering people like that..
Andreas im sure you would not like me to express my opinion about you here, and i doubt the forum would benefit from personal bickering and dispute in full public.. There is always 2 sides to a story, so i would recommend the moderators here to shut down this kind of activity, so that the forum might be taken serious.

This thread/ toppic takes a hole lot of attention on this forum, and i dont really see how it benefits our hobby.. I dont like that forum any better than any of you guys, but the personal attacks on people not represented here will have to stop, and if not ill like to be removed from this site. Its shaefull, and i have no intentions beeing a part of it.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on January 21, 2018, 03:38:02 AM
Dont you people think its a bit low slandering people like that..
Andreas im sure you would not like me to express my opinion about you here, and i doubt the forum would benefit from personal bickering and dispute in full public.. There is always 2 sides to a story, so i would recommend the moderators here to shut down this kind of activity, so that the forum might be taken serious.

This thread/ toppic takes a hole lot of attention on this forum, and i dont really see how it benefits our hobby.. I dont like that forum any better than any of you guys, but the personal attacks on people not represented here will have to stop, and if not ill like to be removed from this site. Its shaefull, and i have no intentions beeing a part of it.

If that person were here I would tell them the same thing to their face so to speak without a seconds hesitation.

Do it over there and I would end up banned, and that would be before I even said half of what I have to say to them... Sounds familiar, at least 2 people I know of were banned for the same thing, and ended up here. Both cases for putting arrogant a-holes back in their place.

This particular story has no two sides, sorry, but it really doesn't.

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 21, 2018, 04:42:24 AM
Dont you people think its a bit low slandering people like that..
Andreas im sure you would not like me to express my opinion about you here, and i doubt the forum would benefit from personal bickering and dispute in full public.. There is always 2 sides to a story, so i would recommend the moderators here to shut down this kind of activity, so that the forum might be taken serious.

This thread/ toppic takes a hole lot of attention on this forum, and i dont really see how it benefits our hobby.. I dont like that forum any better than any of you guys, but the personal attacks on people not represented here will have to stop, and if not ill like to be removed from this site. Its shaefull, and i have no intentions beeing a part of it.

:eyeroll

Manni is that you?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 21, 2018, 06:22:12 AM

Andreas im sure you would not like me to express my opinion about you here,

Feel free to do that if you want to... ;)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 21, 2018, 06:27:06 AM
I personally think this tread is releasing a lot of frustration for people and the moderation on the other forum is not something we want in here. I think the freedom of speach in here are quite pleasing and it is not that somehing really insulting is said, and I am sure all of the people mentioned is following this tread anonymously and they are free to come in and comment. What I also notice is that there is absolutely zero bickering in here and that is a very good thing. :D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 21, 2018, 06:37:09 AM
I don't have a problem with complaints about a forum, since that is not a specific person. No problem with stating a disagreement and why, regarding another poster, the line needs to be drawn at personal name calling. That really should be left out of it. I definitely understand how people feel. I can't count the times I have typed up a post with what I wanted to say, only to then edit it so that it was not an attack or counter attack.

I have met a lot of people on that forum over the years, some in person and many just from posts, phone calls and emails. Many that I call friends. I would love for all of them to come over here so that we could talk like we used to.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stridsvognen on January 21, 2018, 07:28:22 AM
when things gets personal it always bring in emotions and logic or reational behavior ends.. different people handles that differently, i have no issue picking on a product or a specifik forum, but i dont like the wich hunt that seems to acellerate pointing out specifik people, the acusations might be right or wrong, but a forum like this is not a justice system, so no justice will be found, and there is to many personal feelings and interests involved to let stuff like that continue.. It will simply take the forum with it down.

In the end this forum will be reduced to the place where the loosers hang out to bitch about people they dont like, ill hate to see that happen..
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on January 21, 2018, 12:25:20 PM
It should also be remembered what the purpose of the avscience website is.

"Home theater discussion topics relating to equipment purchases, construction questions, setup, and support from the AVS community."
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 21, 2018, 01:33:55 PM
I don't have a problem with people saying, what (insert name here) is saying is not correct or is misinformation. Especially if the poster provides the proof or if it is something that is obviously so wrong that most everyone else in the thread knows it. Sometimes it is just someone misinformed, but often times it is not. Often times it is someone trying to justify their purchase. or they are a fanboy of a brand or technology and blindly defend it against all comers.

I am a fanboy of LCOS. Right now, I think that is the best projector technology. But I am not the type of fanboy that is going to defend it no matter what. For example if DLP ever gives us high contrast, DLP motion and high brightness, DLP will become my favorite projection method. Just like it used to be my favorite years ago. I am for whatever gives me the best image at a price that I can afford.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Javs on January 21, 2018, 03:31:58 PM
I do agree that indefensible personal insults should be reconsidered, I don't believe I have done such things in this thread, I have commented on attitudes though, that's a very different thing.

I have never once personally attacked a forum member here, or on the other forum. I have argued with plenty about straight facts though, and misinformation, and other than that, with one particular person I had enough of the utter rudeness and condescension towards myself and every other person that ever asks them a question that is below his 'intelligence and competency' level.

If you cannot talk to people on a forum with the same manner of respect across all knowledge levels, you don't belong on a forum, I couldn't care less who you are or how much knowledge you have. Its completely unacceptable.

There is genuinely something wrong when I read a comment by a user, and I actually think to myself, wow, I really hope they don't treat their kids like that, because its frankly unacceptable to talk to human beings that way when at least one person has the good intentions of trying to collaborate or gain information on something only to be shot down and talked down to needlessly.

Andreas is right, the discussion here is just venting for those who have been building frustration over there for some time... Pretty soon this thread will fade, and the discussions here will get more interesting and on point.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: JoeRod on January 21, 2018, 06:09:23 PM
when things gets personal it always bring in emotions and logic or reational behavior ends.. different people handles that differently, i have no issue picking on a product or a specifik forum, but i dont like the wich hunt that seems to acellerate pointing out specifik people, the acusations might be right or wrong, but a forum like this is not a justice system, so no justice will be found, and there is to many personal feelings and interests involved to let stuff like that continue.. It will simply take the forum with it down.

In the end this forum will be reduced to the place where the loosers hang out to bitch about people they dont like, ill hate to see that happen..

You may as well save your breath. These guys don’t care which is why they are over here venting their frustrations. This “thread” is great entertainment. I actually opened up with a friendly post only to be hit with where’s the ignore button questions. Which is fine but that is one of the reasons why this forum will never be taken seriously. It’s an obvious theme here with all the banned people. Same story, same reasons same type of person... And brand has absolutely nothing to do with it!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 22, 2018, 05:45:25 AM
You may as well save your breath. These guys don’t care which is why they are over here venting their frustrations. This “thread” is great entertainment. I actually opened up with a friendly post only to be hit with where’s the ignore button questions. Which is fine but that is one of the reasons why this forum will never be taken seriously. It’s an obvious theme here with all the banned people. Same story, same reasons same type of person... And brand has absolutely nothing to do with it!

Have to call BS on that statement, because I have seen that same comment ("where is the ignore button") on AVSF and many other forums. So using your logic AVSF and pretty much every other forum will never be taken seriously.

Joe, you say with you brand does not have anything to do with it, but let me ask you a question. When was the last time you reviewed a projector that was not a Sony. You are a Sony fan. Nothing wrong with that, unless you try to come off as being neutral. Anybody that says the 885 throws a better image than the RS4500 is either a fanboy or has not had enough experience with both projectors. The 4500 is brighter, can be set up to have higher contrast and has a better lens. Now there certainly are reasons to pick an 885 over a 4500, but image quality is not one of them. And this is no knock on the 885, because it is a good projector and it does throw a very nice image. I admit, I certainly would be tempted,because it is cheaper than a new 4500.

Also did you come over here to contribute or only because "This “thread” is great entertainment." If here to contribute, you are welcome.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 22, 2018, 06:18:39 AM
You may as well save your breath. These guys don’t care which is why they are over here venting their frustrations. This “thread” is great entertainment. I actually opened up with a friendly post only to be hit with where’s the ignore button questions. Which is fine but that is one of the reasons why this forum will never be taken seriously. It’s an obvious theme here with all the banned people. Same story, same reasons same type of person... And brand has absolutely nothing to do with it!

yet your here....and posting...hmmmm

your entire statement is doing exactly what your complaining about
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Baseball0618 on January 22, 2018, 07:42:05 AM
You may as well save your breath. These guys don’t care which is why they are over here venting their frustrations. This “thread” is great entertainment. I actually opened up with a friendly post only to be hit with where’s the ignore button questions. Which is fine but that is one of the reasons why this forum will never be taken seriously. It’s an obvious theme here with all the banned people. Same story, same reasons same type of person... And brand has absolutely nothing to do with it!

Your post was not friendly at all, it is layered with passive aggressive overtones which is your MO.   You are one of, if not, the most biased fourm posters that I have ever seen and that is fine to prefer one brand over the other, but when you and others whom are clearly biased spew false information to discredit a brand you don't prefer it just comes off as ignorance to people who know what's what.  This is clearly preferred and encouraged over there so it's a nice fit for you.  Enjoy the circus. 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 22, 2018, 01:20:55 PM
So this is where the gang is all hanging out? I actually miss our dust-ups. Seegs, Andreas, Kris, etc... And I don’t mind everyone talking about me. I am excited I was included in some of the discussions here. I do find it interesting that the majority here are jvc owners. That is an odd trend. Anyway, I won’t jump in here on my first post and start a war... I just wanted to say Happy New Year to everyone and yes I do miss you all...

Carry on...

Yes, this was Joerods friendly post... 8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: SOWK on January 23, 2018, 12:01:40 PM
Sony is the best....


JVC Sucks....


Discuss.... :D



*Joerod is such a Sony Fanboy that I told him I would do an even trade of my X790 for his 885ES and he said NO!!!!*

 8)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: JoeRod on January 23, 2018, 01:28:44 PM
I have no problem owning a JVC projector but you have to admit besides the 4500 the past few years they have all been 1080p with eShit. No thank you. I want 4K. And what did jvc do again? In 2018 besides the 4500 they release all new rebadged 1080p models. Seriously?

And for the record I have absolutely no issue owning a Z1. Mike, I would even buy one from you. Craig too.

And I stand by my statement. This thread is awesome entertainment. And I only read Sowk and Mike’s comments. I chose to ignore the others on my own.

:)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 23, 2018, 02:41:43 PM
I have no problem owning a JVC projector but you have to admit besides the 4500 the past few years they have all been 1080p with eShit. No thank you. I want 4K. And what did jvc do again? In 2018 besides the 4500 they release all new rebadged 1080p models. Seriously?

And for the record I have absolutely no issue owning a Z1. Mike, I would even buy one from you. Craig too.

And I stand by my statement. This thread is awesome entertainment. And I only read Sowk and Mike’s comments. I chose to ignore the others on my own.

:)

Well look at it this way: eShift has to be decent "sh*t" if people couldn't tell the difference in A/B comparisons on real content between the JVC and Sony 385 at John S's recent shootout...or it just says something about Sony not optimizing 4K with their cheap plastic lens and questionable processing with their notorious overpricing.  Keeping fingers crossed for new Sony owners their panels don't degrade either - glad I am not a gambler.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 23, 2018, 03:25:12 PM
Sony is the best....


JVC Sucks....


Discuss.... :D


*Joerod is such a Sony Fanboy that I told him I would do an even trade of my X790 for his 885ES and he said NO!!!!*

 8)

Past up a real opportunity there didn't he. To keep in the same spirit, I will trade you an RS15 for your X790. :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on January 23, 2018, 03:28:33 PM
I have no problem owning a JVC projector but you have to admit besides the 4500 the past few years they have all been 1080p with eShit. No thank you. I want 4K. And what did jvc do again? In 2018 besides the 4500 they release all new rebadged 1080p models. Seriously?

And for the record I have absolutely no issue owning a Z1. Mike, I would even buy one from you. Craig too.

And I stand by my statement. This thread is awesome entertainment. And I only read Sowk and Mike’s comments. I chose to ignore the others on my own.

:)

Yep, for those that want native 4K, your options are limited in the JVC line up. At some point that is going to have to change. I can't imagine JVC and Epson conceding the 4K market completely (under 35K MSRP for JVC) to Sony.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 23, 2018, 04:58:32 PM
Sorry JoeRod, your antics aren't going to work here. You also have no one to complain to when the conversation isn't going your way. No mods to cry to when the JVC folks are spouting too many facts.

I want 4K too, but I don't want a SXRD 4K projector plagued with banding, posterization and with the potential for irreversible contrast loss, gamma droop and brightness loss through panel degradation. Sorry Sony, I've given you a chance with a 1000ES, 1100ES, 665ES and a 285ES. All of these models have the aforementioned problems. The first two issues take away enough digital resolution on the panel level that all but removes 95% of the advantage in resolution these projectors could have. If you check out the recent shootout held in Colorado you'll hear everyone there sharing the same experience that I've had for the last several years. The eshift models look equal to the Sony 4K models in terms of image detail and sharpness. They also mentioned that the RS4500 was CLEARLY a step ahead of all the other projectors there in terms of image detail, including the Sony 4Ks, and that's no surprise because the RS4500 is a 4K projector that isn't plagued with image artifacts that take away digital resolution like all Sony 4K models have.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 23, 2018, 05:39:03 PM
Does anyone have any settings for an rs600 for 4K Blu-rays without HDR?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 23, 2018, 05:51:00 PM
Does anyone have any settings for an rs600 for 4K Blu-rays without HDR?

You want to do SDR BT2020?  Do you have an Oppo 203 or Panasonic UDP900 with an HD fury Integral or Linker?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 23, 2018, 05:56:24 PM
I have a 203. But what I Need is settings for the rare movie that is 4K but no hdr. Aka. Brawl in block 99

Or stranger things.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 23, 2018, 06:00:27 PM
I have a 203. But what I Need is settings for the rare movie that is 4K but no hdr. Aka. Brawl in block 99

Or stranger things.

I thought I read Brawl is actually rec 709 on UHD BD.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 23, 2018, 06:00:56 PM
I have a 203. But what I Need is settings for the rare movie that is 4K but no hdr. Aka. Brawl in block 99

Or stranger things.

Oh, wouldn't you just use your standard gamma settings that you use for Blu-ray?  If those movies & tv shows are only resolution increase and no WCG or HDR I would think you use the settings that you use for Blu-ray unless I'm not understanding.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Tom Bley on January 23, 2018, 06:02:35 PM
I thought I read Brawl is actually rec 709 on UHD BD.

If that's the case he would just use the settings that he has set up for Blu-rays. Simple.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 23, 2018, 06:04:52 PM
That’s what I thought. But those setting look terrible. At least for cell block 99
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 23, 2018, 06:18:31 PM
That’s what I thought. But those setting look terrible. At least for cell block 99

Even with the Oppo outputting rec 709 and turning off HDR?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 23, 2018, 06:38:49 PM
Even with the Oppo outputting rec 709 and turning off HDR?

The movie isn’t encoded with hdr
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 23, 2018, 06:57:50 PM
I think the movie was just filmed in a poorly done fashion
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on January 24, 2018, 08:41:42 AM
I meant make sure the HDR is turned off and outputting 709 - all in the Oppo.

The regular Blu-ray looked excellent.

 
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 26, 2018, 12:45:02 PM
Interesting to see this:

http://www.avsforum.com/2017-sony-buyers-guide/

Gee, I wonder who's sponsoring that forum?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Andreas21 on January 26, 2018, 02:59:35 PM
Yes, and it has been shining though for a long time...
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on January 26, 2018, 07:15:32 PM
You know Scott and Mark don't hang out there for free! ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 27, 2018, 12:02:35 AM
I don't care that Sony has a special sponsor page relaying that models are in their lineup. I just get worried with the thought that their sponsorship is influencing who and what gets hushed on that forum. Let's not forget that VerticalScope only owns that forum to make money. Sony has plenty of money to shell out for these sponsorships. Make no assumptions that they care about what or who gets removed. Over the last several months I've read and heard about some pretty shady dealings over there with many posts being deleted and members being banned for reasons that really didn't warrant a ban.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on January 27, 2018, 11:51:10 AM
If you wanted to test your theory, then you would create two accounts. One account would be pro-JVC and the other pro-Sony. Bash each brand equally and see which account gets banned first.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 27, 2018, 04:22:17 PM
I'm not nearly deceptive enough to pull something like that off.  ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: bmoney on January 27, 2018, 04:33:35 PM
Eh. They have a bot that reads ip addresses and insta bans multiple accounts
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on January 27, 2018, 04:47:38 PM
Eh. They have a bot that reads ip addresses and insta bans multiple accounts

Only post the 2nd account from a friends house or the library !  ;D
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on January 28, 2018, 01:00:09 PM
Eh. They have a bot that reads ip addresses and insta bans multiple accounts

That is what VPNs are for.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: stridsvognen on January 28, 2018, 02:54:09 PM
Dynamic IP rules.. ;)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: SOWK on February 23, 2018, 12:07:20 PM
Damn... Just learned Seegs was banned from AVSForum a while ago.


Wow, what happened to that place. :(

Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on February 23, 2018, 12:10:31 PM
Damn... Just learned Seegs was banned from AVSForum a while ago.


Wow, what happened to that place. :(



It boils down to Sony fanboys complaining enough to the point where the mods got sick of it and they banned me. This was last November iirc.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: SOWK on February 23, 2018, 12:13:43 PM
It boils down Sony fanboys complaining enough to the point where the mods got sick of it and they banned me. This was last November iirc.

You have always been a level headed and straight forward guy. They are losing some good people and that is pretty ridiculous.

Glad to see you still have an outlet to communicate with people in this industry and hobby.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rob-houston on March 01, 2018, 07:57:24 AM
Anyone thinking that Coderguy needs a full time job?!   ;)

... his own screen thread??!!  ;)  ;)

... his own projector thread???!!!  ;)  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on March 01, 2018, 08:41:03 AM
Well, just think, he's going to recreate the HP screen.  :-X  ???
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: DavidHir on March 01, 2018, 08:41:39 AM
Well, just think, he's going to recreate the HP screen.  :-X
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on March 01, 2018, 09:00:01 AM
Well, just think, he's going to recreate the HP screen.  :-X  ???

Good luck with that. I know the 2.8 HP screen was loved, but frankly, it wasn't perfect. It had it's place back in the day when DLP projectors were lucky to muster 500 lumens at best. Not so much today.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on March 01, 2018, 10:28:39 AM
In an era where most high contrast projectors were only outputting ~600 lumens they made a lot of sense to be able to go bigger on screen size while still retaining a decent ftL. I still have my roll down 2.4 gain version screen. It's been a while since I've used it, but I plan on keeping it around. A semiportable screen can come in handy.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ericglo on March 05, 2018, 09:58:41 PM
I remember Darin telling me what the issues with the High Power were, but I don't recall. What were they?


Some may recall that a company out of China had a retroreflective fabric. I bought some, because it was cheap. Unfortunately, it wasn't that great.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on March 06, 2018, 11:26:27 AM
I remember Darin telling me what the issues with the High Power were, but I don't recall. What were they?


Some may recall that a company out of China had a retroreflective fabric. I bought some, because it was cheap. Unfortunately, it wasn't that great.

There was a lot of inconsistency in the optical coating so quality control was difficult for Da-lite. This was mostly when they switched to the 2.4 gain material. I went through 3 screens myself before I got a sample I was happy with. I think the attrition rate was so high that Da-Lite couldn't make a lot of money from them anymore and stopped selling it. I think there was an issue with supply too from China.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on March 06, 2018, 11:58:57 AM
There was a lot of inconsistency in the optical coating so quality control was difficult for Da-lite. The was mostly when they switched to the 2.4 gain material. I went through 3 screens myself before I got a sample I was happy with. I think the attrition rate was so high that Da-Lite couldn't make a lot of money from them anymore and stopped selling it. I think there was an issue with supply too from China.

I don't think it was because DaLite could not make a lot of money. I think they were losing money. I think I had at least one return on every one of them I sold. Some more than one return.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on March 09, 2018, 12:07:57 PM
Unless you really really want/need a huge screen (12+ feet wide) I just don't see the appeal of a High Power screen or really any high gain (>1.3) material in 2018. With so many high brightness, high contrast projectors out there now at ridiculously low prices using a unity gain screen material, or any other non-intrusive screen, is the way to go. Image quality overall is so much better that way. I just can't see myself ever going back to a screen with texture, sheen, sparkles or any other inherent artifact.

How does the Ultra-weave V6 material look? Better than the Enlightor 4K material?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on March 09, 2018, 12:26:35 PM
Unless you really really want/need a huge screen (12+ feet wide) I just don't see the appeal of a High Power screen or really any high gain (>1.3) material in 2018. With so many high brightness, high contrast projectors out there now at ridiculously low prices using a unity gain screen material, or any other non-intrusive screen, is the way to go. Image quality overall is so much better that way. I just can't see myself ever going back to a screen with texture, sheen, sparkles or any other inherent artifact.

How does the Ultra-weave V6 material look? Better than the Enlightor 4K material?

You want a sample ? You get a Seymour NEO sample too, while you are at it !
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on March 09, 2018, 12:39:47 PM
Yes please! Once I get a proper dedicated space I want to make the switch to acoustically transparent. That should be happening within the next 12-18 months. I'd even try and do a nice writeup on the screen I go with compared to my EluneVision Reference 4K material screen, ie a nice non-AT fabric to see how it compares visually.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSCraig on March 09, 2018, 01:07:38 PM
I'm arranging sample to be sent !  :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSMike on March 09, 2018, 06:49:54 PM
Unless you really really want/need a huge screen (12+ feet wide) I just don't see the appeal of a High Power screen or really any high gain (>1.3) material in 2018. With so many high brightness, high contrast projectors out there now at ridiculously low prices using a unity gain screen material, or any other non-intrusive screen, is the way to go. Image quality overall is so much better that way. I just can't see myself ever going back to a screen with texture, sheen, sparkles or any other inherent artifact.

How does the Ultra-weave V6 material look? Better than the Enlightor 4K material?

On bright scenes, like snow or white clouds, I could see some shimmer with EN4K. I don't see that with V6. Also image is slightly sharper, due to the V6 being smoother.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: HarperVision on March 17, 2018, 05:55:47 PM
Wouldn't the primary colors need to be filtered by a yellow notch filter? I don't see how that can happen with the yellow portion of the color wheel is fixed in position and never actually "filters" the primary colors. Brilliant color on most DLP units simply allows for color wheel segment overlap to occur. More mirror "on" time at the expense of color accuracy to boost brightness. Real brilliant color is rare. There have only been a handful of real RGB-RGBY color wheel DLP units released. Most of them were when Brilliant Color was first released and most were found in 1080p single chip DLP Sim2 units. When's the last time anyone had released a DLP unit with such a color wheel?

What is Ruined's explanation at how this would work?
I'm pretty sure that Ruined thought that BC with a yellow segment on the colorwheel and a yellow notch filter did similar things, but they are complete opposites. One lets more yellow light through and one lets less yellow light through.There are 2 kinds like you say. Colors other than RGB on the colorwheel, and turning the mirrors on during the spoke time.

It looks to me like the new laser 1528p+eShift (what some call 4K UHD) projectors have RGBY colorwheels and reports I've read are that they run at 2x.

Sometimes it is hard for me to tell if Ruined is mostly clueless, or if he is just trying to keep from having to admit that he was wrong.

He keeps repeating that BC gives you more light for HDR, but ignores the part where I point out that only some colors get brighter. Adding a yellow segment on a colorwheel and then tightening up the filters for R and G actually results in less light for R and G. It helps push the R and G on the triangle out further, but at the expense of luminance for them.

He seems to have completely ignored the part where I mentioned that HDR isn't just about making white and yellow brighter, HDR is supposed to have brighter R, G, and B also. That isn't to say that these BC techniques might not be worth it overall, but they come at a cost.

--Darin
The way BC can expand gamut, is you can put in a yellow segment that's more saturated than the result of the green and red.  Of course you end up with a quadrilateral shaped gamut instead of a triangle.

And of course yellow really isn't where gamut needs to be expanded.  Most of the new area that DCI P3 and Rec.2020 bring are in the green and cyan areas.

It seems the new laser "4K" DLPs are using RGBY wheels.  At least the Optoma is.  For some reason I thought the Acer was RGBRGB but now people are saying it's RGBY too.

He doen't have an explanation, it's just the typical, anything DLP does is better.  Or more accurately anything Optoma does is better.  Like how low contrast is better because it's more like the theater.

Funny, see I was still giving him the benefit of the doubt...  I was assuming he meant that the yellow segment could pull yellow out (more saturated), but you might be right, he might think that RGBY is the same as RGB+Yellow Notch.  Or, more likely, he doesn't have a clue and will just say anything that his favored DLP projector does is better.  It will be funny when the UHZ75 comes out next year with a 4x RGBRGB wheel and his story changes completely.

I think it's both, I think he's clueless, and will say anything to make DLP sound good/viable.  When you can tease out of him what he really thinks, his personal position seems to be that the only things that matter are Laser, Brightness, and Sharpness, and probably in that order.  He seems to really think his priorities are "right" and that everyone else should follow them, and he'll say anything to make those priorities seem best/right.......

I thought maybe it had something to do with the yellow phosphor wheel or something?  The way I recall seeing the dual wheel design was that it starts with the blue laser diodes, then that light goes through a yellow infused (?) phosphor wheel, which has an opening for the native blue laser light to pass through as well.  (In essence giving us blue and yellow).  Then that passes through the next color wheel that has the red and green segments, plus two clear segments, one for the native blue to pass through and one for the yellow that is created by the yellow infused portion on the first phosphor wheel.  Here is an image taken from the BenQ LK970's page, but I believe I saw something similar for the UHZ65 as well:

(https://business-display.benq.com/content/bb/en-us/index/findproduct/projector/installation-projectors/lk970/_jcr_content/detailItem/feature/featureItem/textimagea_143840367_97507943/image.img.jpg/1510740990832.jpg)

It sounds like that is how they're getting the deeper yellows (and blue) to give the same end result as using a yellow DCI-P3 filter.  This seems like a different technology than you guys are referencing.  It sounds like this is how they do it for laser DLPs as opposed to lamp based ones that have to use a yellow segmented color wheel.  I would have to investigate further to be sure though.

.....In "defense" of Dave, who seems to be the sole basis for Runt's whole treatise on BC, my guess is this:

The UHZ65 isn't terribly bright when calibrated correctly, both the UHD60 and UHD65 lost about 2/3 of their rated brightness when calibrated and were under 1000 Lumens.  That's OK for SDR, but not near enough for HDR.  So my guess is, Dave (who seems to calibrate mainly by eyerometer) found that the extra brightness with BC on was more beneficial for HDR than the negative of having the colors out of balance.
" calibrate mainly by eyerometer " - I like it. Although I think the correct term is " Eye - O - Meter " .  ::)

Thanks for your offer of "defense", but no thanks!  I have the appropriate tools and use them almost daily to great affect, thank you very much.  I just don't like to be a trained sheep or drone that can't think out of the box and experiment with new ideas, techniques, or other things.  I personally don't care if some engineer tells me what a certain compromised (which ALL standards are btw) standard should be.  I can use those as a baseline and churn those calibrations out all day everyday if that is what someone wants from me and tells me to do.  In my spare "fun time" I like to build on the spec and then experiment and come up with what I feel are in some ways great improvements and some eye candy.  If you have seen some of what I do personally (not what others have done taking my settings and trying it themselves!), then I think your tune would be changed, but as with everything, not everybody agrees on what looks good to them, so who knows. :)

Again, see my reply above about what appears to be a different color wheel tech than what you guys are thinking....I think.

All I remember is that the first UHZ65 I had here, when I tried to calibrate it (yes with a METER, not my eye-0-meter, haha!) after turning off all the "enhancement" crap, which I saw BC as, then the numbers just jumped all over and weren't stable at all.  I was so alarmed since nothing I did helped, that I contacted Optoma and the product manager then told me that BC must be set to 8-10 on the scale for it to be stable for HDR BT2020/P3.  Sure enough I set it to 9 and it was pretty rock solid after that.  Don't ask me why, maybe it has something to do with that color wheel/phosphor wheel design for laser DLPs, but he was right on the money with his advice.  Go ask Ruined, maybe he can enlighten us? ;)


I inquired about the infractions and was told:

"Your relationship with any manufacturer would be irrelevant on AVS Forum as you are always to be posting as an individual, not a seller. Best to not discuss products you sell at all in that case."

So How do I post anything at all. I guess I could go into the TCL TV threads and post or the DIY speaker area.

I got the same infraction messages over there too. I think I am one step from being banned there myself!

I assume Cleveland Plasma, Dave Harper and the others have all paid the protection money so they can post about stuff they sell?.....

Wrong again, but thanks for playing! ;)  I personally think it has to do with whether you're a paid gold or silver or whatever member there, because it seems after I decided to do that for whatever reason I can't remember, I all of the sudden didn't get as may infractions it seemed.  Very weird, but maybe that is it, they just want our annual money?

......I mean Dave's all over the Optoma threads talking about his distributors/availability, and his clients.

Not anymore, because I got infractions and warnings just like Mike mentioned.  I didn't even know we couldn't drop hints like that as long as it wasn't blatantly selling and that's all you're doing without helping too.  I didn't realize it until I got the infractions and warnings and then have stopped.  I seem to recall it being ok there from folks like Mike and Craig when AV Science owned it, but I guess that isn't the case any longer and now I know.  I haven't been a dealer for long, only since Nov, so I never knew.

Does seem to be a little one sided, doesn't it. Supposedly you can get infractions from people complaining about your post. About a year and a half ago, I complained about a post with blatantly low street pricing. I received a warning that I could get an infraction for making the complaint. They said it was not against the rules. Ever since then, I have not touched the complaint button.
this aimed at you guys??  this is in classifieds stickied.....i get a kick out of "our members are treated this way" lol hat a joke

"It has come to our attention that despite agreeing to our forum rules when joining, several members have been violating these by trolling the site for potential customers preying on our membership for a buck.

The ONLY avenue for self-promotion on this site is with paid advertising through VerticalScope.

Report all veiled attempts at marketing such as "PM/email/call me", "I sell these" and "see my site" to staff for immediate action. As always, this includes both public posts as well as private messages.

We've had to terminate accounts in the last year and will continue to do so moving forward.

Our members are not to treated this way. AVS Forum is and always has been a safe place for people to share information without the burden of used car salesmen tactics."

I agree.  I am very confused on what you can and can't do over there now.  You have to walk on eggshells with every single post it seems!  We have all had our differences over there, but I think it is an utter travesty that all of you were banned!!!  There is so much knowledge lost over there I don't think they can ever recover.  I personally liked some of the heated discussions.  It is what prompted me to think more out of the box and know more of what is in the box too.  It really helped fuel my passion, but now I don't run there passionately everyday, waiting to read the next cool thing.  I just do it when I get the time and want to see what's up.  I do hope this site builds to the level that AVS "used to be"!  I thought differences and diversity were all the rage now, but I guess not.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: ellisr63 on April 02, 2018, 07:59:43 PM
I did not know where to Post this so I posted it where I post the most in forums.

Lately there has been quite heavy discussions at AVSForum regarding the Sony degradation and lately the JVC not firmware upgrading the RSx00 line. This has resulted in heavy Sony Vs JVC discussions that are simply stupid. I personally have tried to keep it professional and scientific, but it has not been easy.

Today I got a lifetime ban on that forum and I see that the other members in the discussion that have been much more personal and insulting than me is still able to post.

I find that to be highly unfair and the mods are not treating members equally.

Do you guys agree with me?

I know some dont and are just happy to get rid of me, but I think when I was banned others should have been to.

If the mods find this tread unfit for this forum they can just delete it.
I agree with you. I had a temp ban  last year for posting that my price for some for sale items had been lowered. When the ban expired I told them to delete the account, and a few months later I created a new account since it had been deleted. Today I went in and saw that the thread had not been updated, and asked if a mod could please update the thread since the original poster bad been banned. The response was another person had updated it today. I responded it had not been updated, and that I was the original poster. The response was i must be a Trump supporter, and you are banned. What a professional response. I then receive a email that said I was banned for having multiple accounts! If I had 2 accounts then it was their fault as I had requested them to delete my account.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rcapprotti on April 05, 2018, 08:27:35 PM
Is there a club for being banned from the AVS Forum because if there is I'm a new member LOL
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: rcapprotti on April 05, 2018, 08:39:08 PM
I agree with you. I had a temp ban  last year for posting that my price for some for sale items had been lowered. When the ban expired I told them to delete the account, and a few months later I created a new account since it had been deleted. Today I went in and saw that the thread had not been updated, and asked if a mod could please update the thread since the original poster bad been banned. The response was another person had updated it today. I responded it had not been updated, and that I was the original poster. The response was i must be a Trump supporter, and you are banned. What a professional response. I then receive a email that said I was banned for having multiple accounts! If I had 2 accounts then it was their fault as I had requested them to delete my account.
 
You got banned for the exact same thing I was banned for, I told them to delete my account went back on there about a month later set up a new account posted about three times the next day I was permanently banned for having multiple accounts, I've had infractions for the stupidest things and there's no warning no Second Chance basically the mod tell you to bad live with it, and if you ask a question you better phrase it just right or you better not miss spell a single word or the grammar police will come out and won't be just one of them that attacks you it'll be a half a dozen of them they're like little children over there
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on April 06, 2018, 06:21:08 AM
 
You got banned for the exact same thing I was banned for, I told them to delete my account went back on there about a month later set up a new account posted about three times the next day I was permanently banned for having multiple accounts, I've had infractions for the stupidest things and there's no warning no Second Chance basically the mod tell you to bad live with it, and if you ask a question you better phrase it just right or you better not miss spell a single word or the grammar police will come out and won't be just one of them that attacks you it'll be a half a dozen of them they're like little children over there

*cough* It's too bad, not to bad. hahaha

But on a more serious note, it seems to be getting worse over there on a daily basis. We should all be thankful there's a refuge here for us who've either been banned or who are sick of the nonsense over there.

I've recently thought about asking to have my account re-instated over there. But solely for the purpose to post in the classified section. I sell a lot of stuff that comes through here and a lot more eyeballs see their classified section than ours.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: apgood on April 06, 2018, 07:30:20 PM
Sounds like the US one has gotten as bad as the UK site.

I got banned from the UK one because I replied to someone having HDCP issue and suggesting they try something like a HDfury and providing link to their website.

No warning instant ban.  Didn't even know what it was for at first.  When I finally worked out why, I sent an email to the moderators that I was just trying to help the poster since I  had the same issue.  Also said I'd refrain from posting links or mentioning specific products in future, but never got a response or my ban lifted.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Pultzar on May 12, 2018, 01:50:48 PM
Eh. They have a bot that reads ip addresses and insta bans multiple accounts

Perhaps they can be stopped with the new GDPR restrictions :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: cinneramax on May 13, 2018, 08:09:11 PM
This is my first visit to the therapy session of Banned  From AVSFORUM  anonymous, Id just like to sit around listen, thank you.

I had posted this earlier not knowing you guys were here:

https://twitter.com/CINERAMAX/status/995670637250338816

LOL!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Dylan Seeger on May 14, 2018, 07:08:31 PM
This is my first visit to the therapy session of Banned  From AVSFORUM  anonymous, Id just like to sit around listen, thank you.

I had posted this earlier not knowing you guys were here:

https://twitter.com/CINERAMAX/status/995670637250338816

LOL!

Thanks for the shoutout!  ;D

What was the excuse they used when they banned you? I was told the reason I was banned for life, without any sort of preliminary warning or temporary ban mind you, was for using bad language. The irony was that the forum auto-censored the bad language with asterisks so no one could even read my swear word anyways. It seemed to me that they were looking for any excuse to ban me.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: AVSLaurie on May 17, 2018, 10:58:15 AM
They may have wanted to ban you Dylan, but we're mighty glad to have you.  :)
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: muzz on May 28, 2018, 02:53:43 PM
Hey Guys!  :D
Is this a new forum from the Sale of AVS? I'm a bit confused!
Edit: Ok, I take it only AVSForum was sold?
And do we really have to do that robot nonsense after every post?
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: HomeTheaterGuy on May 28, 2018, 09:13:54 PM
Hey Guys!  :D
Is this a new forum from the Sale of AVS? I'm a bit confused!
Edit: Ok, I take it only AVSForum was sold?
And do we really have to do that robot nonsense after every post?

Muzz - No need to worry, you only have moderation for your first 2 posts.

AVS started the other forum, but sold it a while ago. Our retail business and this forum is run by the original friendly AVS guys.

Welcome aboard!
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: muzz on May 29, 2018, 05:11:37 AM
Took awhile to realize, then again, all I had to do was think back on how things are over there, and this thread makes a ton of sense! ;D
I was like "I'm on AVS, why is there a discussion about BFAVSF"... then I noticed the difference in the name.
I was googling when I came across this thread.

Thanks
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: Mogrub on September 06, 2018, 10:39:42 AM
... AVS started the other forum, but sold it a while ago. Our retail business and this forum is run by the original friendly AVS guys. Welcome aboard!
I'd been on the old AVS forum for over a decade, and a AVScience customer for much of that time, but never knew that history.  The old forum is a mere shadow of what it used to be, so I'm happy to discover this renaissance site.    👍
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: lorjam on September 13, 2018, 08:14:26 AM
Was a long time member on the other forum under this user ID.  About 10 months ago I was catching up on posts at a motel and got kicked off.  Tried to contact the mods to fix it, but no luck.  After a month I finally created a new account with a new user ID.  I think when I got kicked off at the motel my IP address got changed so I was able to create a new user account and not get banned for multiple accounts.  So I'm here under my old AVS user name and over there I'm under a new user name as a newbie.  Good to find this thread with a lot of the posters I enjoyed reading.  Now I know what happened to them.
Title: Re: Banned at AVSForum
Post by: tigerhonaker on December 09, 2018, 04:09:37 PM
Now this has been an interesting read guys.  ;)

Terry