Banned at AVSForum

[Tom Bley]

Joerod has always been a Sony boy even if he owned a JVC or two many years ago. He does not calibrate or measure when he reviews projectors, and to me his reviews is simply not interesting at all. It is 100% clear he is sponsored by Sony and he should not be allowed to link to his reviews on the other forum.

Is VGI still able to post after the very insulting post towards Mike G and John Schuermann?? If he is it is a disgrace, he should be banned for life!

I agree.  VGI should be banned if he isn't already, I don't know. I don't pay any attention to any of Joerods posts as you say they are not interesting.

I have several people I trust to give unbiased reviews of projectors.  They tell it like it is and know who they are.

[Dylan Seeger]

Yes, both guys doing the comparsome are dealers for both brands. Nobody should have expected the 885 to beat the 4500. That was not reasonable to expect. Just like people were unreasonable, when they expected the 4500 to beat the VW5000. There is a reason for the price difference. Compete with it, yes, but not beat it.

You say that but a lot of people were under the assumption (and posting as if) they would perform essentially the same. I haven't seen the 885ES or RS4500 so I can't comment on them specifically, but I can presume to know why the 885ES looked subjectively less sharp. It's the same reason why eshift can look just as good as the Sony 4Ks. No, it's not the lens on the RS4500 (though that may play a very small role), it's that the Sony's aren't native 4K when we factor in color information. Sure there may be 8.8 million pixels, but the Sony's can't map discreet color information to all of those pixels. There is a TON of information lost in color due to the posterization and banding issue that all Sony 4K models have. All you need to do is walk up close to the screen when any Sony 4K model is on projecting video content and you'll see what I'm referring to. It's a mess up close and a ton of information is smeared and blotched together into swaths of same color nothingness. The JVCs, from that I've been told, do not have this issue and I'm fully confident this is the reason why people saw the RS4500 as being noticeably sharper with better image detail over the 885ES.

[Baseball0618]

You say that but a lot of people were under the assumption (and posting as if) they would perform essentially the same. I haven't seen the 885ES or RS4500 so I can't comment on them specifically, but I can presume to know why the 885ES looked subjectively less sharp. It's the same reason why eshift can look just as good as the Sony 4Ks. No, it's not the lens on the RS4500 (though that may play a very small role), it's that the Sony's aren't native 4K when we factor in color information. Sure there may be 8.8 million pixels, but the Sony's can't map discreet color information to all of those pixels. There is a TON of information lost in color due to the posterization and banding issue that all Sony 4K models have. All you need to do is walk up close to the screen when any Sony 4K model is on projecting video content and you'll see what I'm referring to. It's a mess up close and a ton of information is smeared and blotched together into swaths of same color nothingness. The JVCs, from that I've been told, do not have this issue and I'm fully confident this is the reason why people saw the RS4500 as being noticeably sharper with better image detail over the 885ES.

makes sense and I think the people that thought they would perform the same were the fanboys that already pre-ordered the 885es sight unseen.   However, I think that the lens might play somewhat of a larger role than you are alluding to.  We will know for sure in the future b/c I am hearing rumblings that the 1100 replacement is coming w/ laser engine and upgraded optics. 

I think the Sony's clearly have convergence and focus uniformity issues though.  My 665es was pretty horrific along both of those lines and sounds like that has been an ongoing theme for many Sony 4k's since they have been released.  Seems as though RC is used to try to remedy some of their panels shortcomings, but I think they do as much bad as they do good.  At least that's what I felt w/ my previous 665es.

[Andreas21]

I see people talking of 50 in the RC settings not giving any visible defects, I saw a screenshot posted by the 885 owner SoulOfUniverse and it looked very overcooked and very bad and he says he uses high RC settings. I have not seen the 885 and I did not test the RC very detailed when I calibrated a couple of the new 265/365 I just set them low.

What is also funny is a comment from Roxiedog13 that the Lumagen Pro will take care of any ringing caused by RC, I hardly believe that the Lumagen will do this when it is the Sony prosessing causing the ringing/edge enhancement.

I also think the lens of the 885 is a very weak point, to put the same lens in a 25000$ unit as a 5000$ unit is very bad I think. The lens in the RS4500 is in a hole different league, I even think the lens in my BW2 is better.

[DavidHir]

What is also funny is a comment from Roxiedog13 that the Lumagen Pro will take care of any ringing caused by RC, I hardly believe that the Lumagen will do this when it is the Sony prosessing causing the ringing/edge enhancement.

That is funny.  Yeah, I've never heard of the ability of a tool to remove ringing and even if it were possible it would surely have its own artifacts in doing so.  As we know in video, there are no free lunches.

[stanger89]

There are dering filters out there (madVR can do it), but obviously it's best to not introduce ringing in the first place.  No idea if the Radiance Pro has such a filter, of course I don't know how it could fix something that happens after it sees the video.  Only way to do that would be to add blur or something to the edges or something so that RC would then "undo".

Seems awfully Rube-Goldberg to me.   

[AVSMike]

I see people talking of 50 in the RC settings not giving any visible defects, I saw a screenshot posted by the 885 owner SoulOfUniverse and it looked very overcooked and very bad and he says he uses high RC settings. I have not seen the 885 and I did not test the RC very detailed when I calibrated a couple of the new 265/365 I just set them low.

What is also funny is a comment from Roxiedog13 that the Lumagen Pro will take care of any ringing caused by RC, I hardly believe that the Lumagen will do this when it is the Sony prosessing causing the ringing/edge enhancement.

I also think the lens of the 885 is a very weak point, to put the same lens in a 25000$ unit as a 5000$ unit is very bad I think. The lens in the RS4500 is in a hole different league, I even think the lens in my BW2 is better.

Yep, the lumagen can't do anything to correct any ringing caused by RC, since the projector processing occurs after the lumagen.

[Andreas21]

Yep, the lumagen can't do anything to correct any ringing caused by RC, since the projector processing occurs after the lumagen.

When I wrote hardly belive I was just kind, of corse the Lumagen can not correct what is happening in the projector.

[AVSMike]

When I wrote hardly belive I was just kind, of corse the Lumagen can not correct what is happening in the projector.

I know. I was agreeing with you. I just stated the obvious reason, why it was stupid to think it could.

[coderguy]

I've been walking on egg shells in that other forum lately. At least there is at least one reasonable MOD still at AVSForum. I have been reported a few times by Sony and Optoma users, but the Mods have all taken my side thus far...

That said, I no longer feel complete freedom about sharing my opinions about potential deficiencies in units for fear of being banned there. I have stopped posting about Sony and Optoma for the most part for fear of being banned

I understand the UHZ-65 is a good light cannon and LASER if you can stand the 2x color wheel (I probably couldn't), but the NON-LASER UHD-65 is 800/1200 calibrated lumens or so, and that is just no comparison and no reason to really even look at a UHD 65 over the JVC when the pricing is this close to the low-end JVC.

[AVSCraig]

I've been walking on egg shells in that other forum lately. At least there is at least one reasonable MOD still at AVSForum. I have been reported a few times by Sony and Optoma users, but the Mods have all taken my side thus far...

That said, I no longer feel complete freedom about sharing my opinions about potential deficiencies in units for fear of being banned there. I have stopped posting about Sony and Optoma for the most part for fear of being banned

I understand the UHZ-65 is a good light cannon and LASER if you can stand the 2x color wheel (I probably couldn't), but the NON-LASER UHD-65 is 800/1200 calibrated lumens or so, and that is just no comparison and no reason to really even look at a UHD 65 over the JVC when the pricing is this close to the low-end JVC.

It's a shame that people can't discuss things without all the BS over there.

Ya, this week an RS420 and an Optoma UHD65 are the exact same price. The UHD60 I had did throw a nice image in some ways, but the light spill out the vent, lack of powered anything and occasional rainbows were enough to turn me off .

[Dylan Seeger]

I've been walking on egg shells in that other forum lately. At least there is at least one reasonable MOD still at AVSForum. I have been reported a few times by Sony and Optoma users, but the Mods have all taken my side thus far...

That said, I no longer feel complete freedom about sharing my opinions about potential deficiencies in units for fear of being banned there. I have stopped posting about Sony and Optoma for the most part for fear of being banned

I understand the UHZ-65 is a good light cannon and LASER if you can stand the 2x color wheel (I probably couldn't), but the NON-LASER UHD-65 is 800/1200 calibrated lumens or so, and that is just no comparison and no reason to really even look at a UHD 65 over the JVC when the pricing is this close to the low-end JVC.

It's sad for sure. I got banned but it's quite nice now that I don't have to deal with people like Roxiedog and Ruined anymore. These types of people have destroyed any sense of objectiveness on that forum. They water down factual things to suspend belief that an issue or performance level  might not be as bad as it seems after all.

[ericglo]

Stereodude called out Runt and I knew it was a matter of time before the posts were deleted. In the one post I saw, Runt basically said he was technology agnostic and trying to bring balance to all of the JVC promotion.

[Stereodude]

Stereodude called out Runt and I knew it was a matter of time before the posts were deleted. In the one post I saw, Runt basically said he was technology agnostic and trying to bring balance to all of the JVC promotion.

Yeah, but they left the call out, and deleted his responses. I didn't get to read any of them though because I didn't make it back to the forum for a while.

[stanger89]

So I see now that Brilliant Color (with RGB/RGBY) color wheels now expands gamut and is more accurate for Rec.2020 content, and increases brightness too!    I suppose on an RGBY wheel it might expand it a tad (depends on how saturated the Yellow is) but some folks clearly don't understand how these things work.

Surely if BC actually produced a wider, more accurate gamut while being brighter, everyone would be using it all the time...