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The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build

The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« on: January 04, 2021, 09:55:54 AM »
Hi everyone,

I'm in the planning phases of my first dedicated 7.2.4 home theater, with construction set to begin in Feb 2021.  The Tiny Dutchman is an odd name but an ode to my mother and father (nicknames were "Tiny" for my mom and "Dutch" for my dad.) Here's where we are at so far:

Room

  • Dimensions: 16'6"x21'x8'
  • Construction: Room-within-a-room with double 5/8" drywall, green glue in between drywall layers and Roxul behind the drywall.
  • Seating: Two rows of seating, with 5 seats in each row (two love seats and one captain chair centered on the screen). Second row will be on a riser. Seats are the Southampton model from HTMarket.com.
  • Acoustics: 16 acoustic panels designed by GiK and exterior-grade door with sound absorbing panels
  • Lighting: Fully light-controlled with 6 sconce lights (2 on each wall except for the screen wall) and LED lighting around the edge of the riser and under each seat


Equipment

  • Projector: JVC NX5
  • Blu-ray Player: Panasonic DP-UB820
  • Game player: PS4 (will be upgraded to a PS5 when I can find one!)
  • Screen: Screen Innovations 125" AT 1.3 Gain 
  • Receiver: Marantz SR-8015
  • Speakers: LCR = Sonance R1 x3 ; Rears and Surrounds = Sonance R1SUR x4 ; Atmos = Sonance R1CSUR x4
  • Subs: SVS PB-3000 x2
  • Control: 1-room Control 4 system with SR260 remote
  • Network: Araknis 210 web series Gigabit Websmart series switch with 16 ports
  • Rack: SR-FS-SYSTEM-DC-35U
  • Power: WB-700CH-IPV-12 IP Power Conditioner and SurgeX® UPS + Surge Elimination

Use case will be 80% movies and the rest will be a mix of games and major sporting events.  I have a 65" LG OLED that I'm happy with for normal TV viewing.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I know that in-wall speakers come with a huge sacrifice in sound quality.  However, we all deal with constraints, and my constraint at this point is that my wife doesn't want to see a bunch of speakers.  I'm considering in-wall speakers a win just for the fact that she's letting me build this room!  So, please save the comments on how much my speakers suck...she's letting me put two subs on the floor which I'm quite pleased with!

Questions at this point:
  • Do I need the UP820 disc player or should I go for a lower-end model considering the NX5 doesn't do DV or HDR10+?
  • Do I need the surge protector if the house already has a whole-home surge protector wired to the main breaker box?
  • I opted to go with regular 5/8" drywall and not any special sound absorbing drywall since I'm using the green glue.  Should I rethink that and pay the extra 2k for the sound absorbing drywall?
  • The SR8015 does 11 channels of amplification.  Do I need to think about an external amp to drive the front sound stage for sound quality reasons or should I be set with the all-in-one solution provided by the Marantz?

Anything else I should consider?


bmoney

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Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2021, 10:21:24 AM »
-the Panasonic 420 will be more than enough, let the NX5 do the heavy lifting

-5/8 drywall double layered is all you need, the rest is snake oik

-what is the sensativity of your speakers? that will help know if the marantz will be enough, but my guess is with your sized room you will need additional amplification

-as far as subs.  i feel you will need more than the 2 3000's to full that larger room.  have you considered diy?  or do you already own the 3000's?

welcome aboard.  looking forward to following your build!

SadieMax 2,0 Build thread

Nad t758v3 
7.4.4 diysoundgroup 1099's (3) 
Volt 6 (8 ) 
18" SI subs (4) 
diy 130" 2.40 spandex screen
minidsp 2x4HD
JVC rs600
Lumagen radiance pro 4242
Nvidia shield pro
Emby NAS media player

Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2021, 10:22:22 AM »
Looks to be an excellent theater - congrats!

I'm using the UB820 in mine - bought before the DTM of the current JVC generation - but would likely get the UB420 or possibly a Sony 4k player if I were to get one now.  I'm also a Control4 guy, and the Panasonics (other than the UB9000) generally require an IR Driver, rather than an IP Driver.  It works reliably, but does require an IR emitter attached to the unit.  A Sony might be able to use an IP Driver, which wouldn't need this.

One thing you didn't mention - what is the aspect ratio of your screen?  This is a personal choice, but in my case, my room is primarily for movies, the vast majority of which are 2.35:1 to 2.40:1 so I went with a scope screen (2.35:1).  If I were doing this now, I might go with one closer to 2.40:1 since that is the more common format for modern movies.

Where are you located?

Don

Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2021, 10:35:07 AM »
Also - I'm not a gamer, so don't know how the PS4 functions for streaming Netflix, Amazon and all the rest, or how well it integrates with Control4.

If this is something you'd want, I'd consider getting the new Roku Ultra.  Roku integrates extremely well with Control4.  Nvidia Shield and ATV are other viable options, but their Control4 integration is not nearly as good as Roku, from what I've read.

Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2021, 10:36:11 AM »
The speaker sensitivity is 90dB SPL (2.83V/1 meter).  The Marantz says it does 150 per channel, so I'm not sure how to gauge whether or not I'll need an amp.  Is this a case where I start with the Marantz and upgrade later if I feel I'm not getting what I need?

Which Sony player would you recommend? My installer actually recommended a Sony (the UBPX1100ES) but I pushed back because I had read the Panasonics offer better HDR processing...but with the NX5 it sounds like I won't need that.

I don't already own the SVS's but I have heard them and really like the sound - I can feel the bass in my chest which is exactly what I'm looking for.  I'm having the installer wire all 4 corners for subs so I can expand in the future.  Right now, I'm already over budget, so two is the max unless I cut somewhere else.  Open to recommendations here.

The screen is 2.35...I was doing some reading here and it seems like 2.35 is the way to go but am open to suggestions if you feel differently.  My understanding is the NX5 will do 2.35 natively but 2.40 will require a lens, which I don't currently have the budget to afford.

And I forgot to mention I'll have a Roku Ultra for streaming based on the recommendation of my installer.

I'm located in the northern burbs of Chicago.

Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2021, 11:07:53 AM »
I have a Sony X800 in my family room, used with a Sony 4k/HDR (non Dolby Vision) TV, and while I don't use it a lot, it has worked well.  The 1100 is certainly a good player, but you won't benefit from the Dolby Vision it provides, and I'm not sure what else it offers over the X800 or similar player, for your needs.  You're not using it for anything but discs, since the Ultra will take care of the streaming needs.

And you're correct - with the NX5's Frame-to-Frame Dynamic Tone Mapping, and the new Theater Optimizer, you only need the disc player to send an accurate signal, and not do any processing, tone mapping, etc.

2.35:1 screens are generally more 'stock' and might be more available than 2.40:1, so cost could potentially be an issue.  But there's no need for an Anamorphic Lens for one vs the other; you just zoom the JVC's Optical Lens to fill the screen's width.  Anything wider than 2.35:1 would just spill over onto the screen's frame width, with 2.40:1, so wouldn't be a concern.

I used my RS400 and then NX7 for a while without the DCR lens, with a 2.35:1 screen, and it's not an issue.  The DCR lens adds up to a 38% brightness bump, and can be added down the road, since it is not a cheap way to go.  There are Projector-specific DCR lenses that are less costly, but still not cheap.

I imagine your installer has checked, but make sure your throw distance is enough to fill the full width of your screen, and hopefully be 1.4x screen width or more, in case you do want to add an Anamorphic Lens down the road.

AVSCraig

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Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2021, 11:18:19 AM »
The speaker sensitivity is 90dB SPL (2.83V/1 meter).  The Marantz says it does 150 per channel, so I'm not sure how to gauge whether or not I'll need an amp.  Is this a case where I start with the Marantz and upgrade later if I feel I'm not getting what I need?

Which Sony player would you recommend? My installer actually recommended a Sony (the UBPX1100ES) but I pushed back because I had read the Panasonics offer better HDR processing...but with the NX5 it sounds like I won't need that.

I don't already own the SVS's but I have heard them and really like the sound - I can feel the bass in my chest which is exactly what I'm looking for.  I'm having the installer wire all 4 corners for subs so I can expand in the future.  Right now, I'm already over budget, so two is the max unless I cut somewhere else.  Open to recommendations here.

The screen is 2.35...I was doing some reading here and it seems like 2.35 is the way to go but am open to suggestions if you feel differently.  My understanding is the NX5 will do 2.35 natively but 2.40 will require a lens, which I don't currently have the budget to afford.

And I forgot to mention I'll have a Roku Ultra for streaming based on the recommendation of my installer.

I'm located in the northern burbs of Chicago.
Good call on wiring for subs in all 4 corners. Get the 2 SVS subs now. Later, if you want better bass, get 2 more and a Mini DSP HD and mic, and you'll have even better bass. 
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:00am - 4:30pm Pacific 
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We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
Twitter - @AVS_Craig Sacramento CA area

Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2021, 01:02:39 PM »
I'll second the 2.40:1 screen over the 2.35:1. Unfortunately I had just ordered by 2.35:1 and it was too late the change my mind. It's not a HUGE deal since it's just a bit of overscan on the sides of the screen, but I know it's there :)

In regard to a DCR lens, it depends on the size screen you go with. In your case, 125" isn't huge, but having it being an AT screen may lose a bit of brightness, but as DLC said, go with the Zoom method for now and you can always add a lens in the future. In my case, my screen is only 110" and I don't have any issues with brightness at all. My only "upgrade" I'm even considering right now would be a Lumagen, but I'm having a difficult time justifying the cost to my CFO (the wife). We are very pleased with the RS2000's picture as is, but I know the Lumagen would be a bump up but damn that's a lot of cheddar :)

I think you're on the right track with what you've shown thus far. 
Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer
Sound & Vision Magazine

Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2021, 08:53:25 AM »
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. With your input, I'm going to go with the 2.40 screen instead of the 2.35 and will also look harder at the Sony players since my installer seems to have more expertise with those and their integration into the Control4 platform.  

I'm still curious on using the Marantz to power all speakers or if anyone has strong rationale to using a separate amp to power at least the front soundstage.  Any recommendations here?  Again, the 11 Sonance in-wall speakers are all 90 db SPL and the Marantz outputs 140 W (8 Ω, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 2 channel driven) with 11 channels of amplification.  

Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2021, 09:06:21 AM »
Sounds good.

There's probably no way to know for sure as far as the Marantz power being sufficient.  90dB is pretty sensitive, so you make be okay.  You can certainly just go with that to begin with, and see/hear what you think.

But if you do, I'd make sure the Installer wires and configures the room so that adding an additional amp or two would be simple.

bmoney

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Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2021, 09:09:51 AM »
your looking at about 60 wpc all channels driven but how often are all channels driven that hard.  almost never!

IMHO separates are nice and important if you have low sensitive speakers.  but with HS speakers you will not notice a difference

What are you normal listening habits?  loud moderate etc? also how far from the mains will your MLP be.

these all have a factor in what you choose to do.  sound quality wise at moderate levels you wont hear a difference.  only reason I have one is to power the speakers the current avr doesn't have enough internal amps to power.  but again all my speakers are 99db sensitive

let me find the online calculator to help you

EDIT: here you go:

Speaker amplifier calculator

SadieMax 2,0 Build thread

Nad t758v3 
7.4.4 diysoundgroup 1099's (3) 
Volt 6 (8 ) 
18" SI subs (4) 
diy 130" 2.40 spandex screen
minidsp 2x4HD
JVC rs600
Lumagen radiance pro 4242
Nvidia shield pro
Emby NAS media player

Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2021, 07:31:14 AM »
Sounds good.

There's probably no way to know for sure as far as the Marantz power being sufficient.  90dB is pretty sensitive, so you make be okay.  You can certainly just go with that to begin with, and see/hear what you think.

But if you do, I'd make sure the Installer wires and configures the room so that adding an additional amp or two would be simple.
Thanks.  Didn't realize additional wiring would be necessary for future amp additions. 

Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2021, 07:34:21 AM »
your looking at about 60 wpc all channels driven but how often are all channels driven that hard.  almost never!

IMHO separates are nice and important if you have low sensitive speakers.  but with HS speakers you will not notice a difference

What are you normal listening habits?  loud moderate etc? also how far from the mains will your MLP be.

these all have a factor in what you choose to do.  sound quality wise at moderate levels you wont hear a difference.  only reason I have one is to power the speakers the current avr doesn't have enough internal amps to power.  but again all my speakers are 99db sensitive

let me find the online calculator to help you

EDIT: here you go:

Speaker amplifier calculator
Thanks. My normal listening habits aren't representative of my future listening habits with this theater!  I'm hoping to listen at near-reference volume because, to me, the majority of the immersive feeling i get in a theater is due to the sound.  The screen is a cool wow factor, and definitely important to me that it's large enough, but I'm most excited about cranking the volume when watching some of my favorite films.  

I will be sitting about 8 feet from the screen and, when plugging the numbers into the calculator you provided, it seems the Marantz will have more than enough power to get the job done.  I think I'll have the installer wire for potential future additional amps but I'll start with just the Marantz and see how it goes.

Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2021, 08:07:53 AM »
Thanks.  Didn't realize additional wiring would be necessary for future amp additions.
I don't know that it will, not knowing the specifics of how your room is being designed.  But obviously, now is the time to raise the question with your installer, to make sure the design will easily accommodate the amps should you want to go that route.

bmoney

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Re: The Tiny Dutchman Home Theater build
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2021, 09:02:49 AM »
Yeah additional wiring isn’t necessary. You will be using the same speaker wire that would already be there. But I stead of them originating at the marantz they will originate from the amp. With I interconnects going from the marantz to the amps. 

Does that make sense?
SadieMax 2,0 Build thread

Nad t758v3 
7.4.4 diysoundgroup 1099's (3) 
Volt 6 (8 ) 
18" SI subs (4) 
diy 130" 2.40 spandex screen
minidsp 2x4HD
JVC rs600
Lumagen radiance pro 4242
Nvidia shield pro
Emby NAS media player

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