2019 Sony 4K Projector Owners Thread

[stridsvognen]

I have around 60 hours on the sony now, ordered some different sunglases for the 1 eyed, and hopfully ill get time to play with it this weekend and do a final calibration.
Ill post some calibration images when im done.

[stridsvognen]

Got the filters to play with, and now have a calibration at 12fl with a ND 2 filter in front of the lens, who boosts on off measured on screen to 7900:1.
However there is now a new issue, with contrast now up at 93, vs 67 without the filter i now get quite heavy color banding/ purple bands in clouds and other bright areas, that is far less agressive with the low contrast setting.

I have been true all settings and there is nothing i could find that would change that behavior.

Its a 4K projector yes, but not realy capable of resolving a 1080P 24fps 8 bit image without quite heavy distortion, so i think ill revert back to my low contrast setting, and remove the filter.

[stridsvognen]

Calibrated the VPL VW270ES (295) today using the SONY Image Director 3 software, and got a straight 2,3 gamma.

The Sony ansi contrast performance makes for a unike image that all the JVC projectors lacks, sadly the SONY have other shortcommings.

[Dylan Seeger]

Like with all digital projection technologies, be it DILA, SXRD, 3LCD or DLP, they all have drawbacks.

[stridsvognen]

Like with all digital projection technologies, be it DILA, SXRD, 3LCD or DLP, they all have drawbacks.

The Sony seems to be panel/ driver issues, the JVC seems to be lens related/ optical issues, i would love to try put a sony lens on a JVC projector, it looks like all the JVC have some serious issues building a lens with good antireflective properties, where the sony seems close to perfect, ill expect quite a bit of the ANSI contrast performance on the JVC is lost in the lens, its to be honest very bad on JVC, very very close to CRT, to the point you cant actually see the difference.
My next mission will be to find a defective SONY 4K projector to grab the lens from.

The test JVC is ready.

[AVSMike]

The Sony seems to be panel/ driver issues, the JVC seems to be lens related/ optical issues, i would love to try put a sony lens on a JVC projector, it looks like all the JVC have some serious issues building a lens with good antireflective properties, where the sony seems close to perfect, ill expect quite a bit of the ANSI contrast performance on the JVC is lost in the lens, its to be honest very bad on JVC, very very close to CRT, to the point you cant actually see the difference.
My next mission will be to find a defective SONY 4K projector to grab the lens from.

The test JVC is ready.

Have you actually compared the sharpness of the 295 and 695 vs the RS1000 and RS2000? Everyone that I know that has made the comparison has said the JVC is sharper. By eye, you think you can tell a difference in ANSI between the 295 and the RS1000?

I don't think you can attribute much of the ANSI differences between the Sony and JVC to the lens. Heck the HW series of projectors all have higher ANSI than the JVC's and those lenes are crap. The HW series has higher ANSI than the RS4500 and RS3000. Only a fool would pick the HW lens over the 3000/4500 lens. 

[Dylan Seeger]

It's actually hard to compare them. The pixel fill on the JVCs is so much higher than the Sony 4Ks. When I first powered up my RS2000 I thought the lens couldn't focus properly because I could barely see any pixel grid. Because of this people may think the JVCs look softer, so I think subjectively many might prefer the Sony with its more pronounced pixel grid. But when you pull up test patterns you can see the JVC clearly wins. It looks perfect. The Sony 4Ks have problems with single pixel patterns.

[stridsvognen]

Have you actually compared the sharpness of the 295 and 695 vs the RS1000 and RS2000? Everyone that I know that has made the comparison has said the JVC is sharper. By eye, you think you can tell a difference in ANSI between the 295 and the RS1000?

I don't think you can attribute much of the ANSI differences between the Sony and JVC to the lens. Heck the HW series of projectors all have higher ANSI than the JVC's and those lenes are crap. The HW series has higher ANSI than the RS4500 and RS3000. Only a fool would pick the HW lens over the 3000/4500 lens.

This is not about sharpness, its about reflections, light streaking, look at a JVC with the OPPO screen saver, it looks absolutely terrible, the vertical streaking, the reflection that lights up the screen in other places, the 295 dont suffer that, so im curious if its the lens or the light engine.Antireflective coating might make the optics less transparent, but as lightoutput and sharpness is not a issue i worry about on any of the 4K projectors, its surficiant on all of them for my need.
I clearly see the difference from a JVC with a 130:1 ansi contrast, to the sony with 350:1, its just much more clean contrasty look on all scenes, even fairly dark ones.

I did a experiment with different ND filters on the 295, and it generated a similar issue the JVC optics suffer from.

If i get a SONY lens and if its possible to mount it on a JVC it would be interesting to see the ansi contrast differences, ill also try work on those reflective surfaces in the lamp engine, and the JVC lamp asembly see if that makes a difference.

If im to replace my CRT with  500.000:1 on off contrast and 100:1 ansi contrast, i need something that lifts the ansi contrast significantly above JVC level, and the SONY do that, but the on off is so god awfull on the SONY that its a joke, + the banding issues can be fairly anoying, i adore its stable solid image and high ansi contrast, and to be fair the on off contrast might only be relevant in 3% of all content, but when it is, its far more obvious.
If ansi dont matter i already have the best projector, i just think both on off and ansi contrast is important, and i would be satisfied with 100.000:1 on off with 14fl on scren and 400-500:1 ansi, black bars will be significantly darker, colors cleaner, and highlights not washing out lower level details.

[stridsvognen]

It's actually hard to compare them. The pixel fill on the JVCs is so much higher than the Sony 4Ks. When I first powered up my RS2000 I thought the lens couldn't focus properly because I could barely see any pixel grid. Because of this people may think the JVCs look softer, so I think subjectively many might prefer the Sony with its more pronounced pixel grid. But when you pull up test patterns you can see the JVC clearly wins. It looks perfect. The Sony 4Ks have problems with single pixel patterns.

I know, but as my ultimate reference is a CRT i dont have the artificial digital sharpness fetish, and i apriciate 4K more smooth and soft edges. Also why ill never use the Panasonic player on my projector setup, the sharpness ringing looks horrible in my eyes, but im well aware that lots of people prefer that look.
 And as i said before the SONY suffers from bad panel/ drive issues, and the JVC from optical streaking and flaring, so if it would be possible to combine the 2 and get the best of the SONY and the best of the JVC it would be a very nice combination. 

[Andreas21]

A 1080p JVC that only measures 130:1 in ANSI has something major wrong with it. I have had many 1080p JVC and my last in the 400 series was a 420 and it measured around 250:1 in my batcave. My Cineversum BW2 measures around 300:1 if I dont remember wrong and I dont have the numbers on this computer. 

And I have done many side by sides with Sonys measuring up to 550:1 (VW1100) and it is very difficult to find movie material where you can see a difference accordig to the ANSI difference as ANSI is a non important number when it comes to movies. Doing a side by side with the same JVCs and Sonys shows a clear difference in the dark to very dark material due to the major difference in on/off contrast.

[stridsvognen]

A 1080p JVC that only measures 130:1 in ANSI has something major wrong with it. I have had many 1080p JVC and my last in the 400 series was a 420 and it measured around 250:1 in my batcave. My Cineversum BW2 measures around 300:1 if I dont remember wrong and I dont have the numbers on this computer.

And I have done many side by sides with Sonys measuring up to 550:1 (VW1100) and it is very difficult to find movie material where you can see a difference accordig to the ANSI difference as ANSI is a non important number when it comes to movies. Doing a side by side with the same JVCs and Sonys shows a clear difference in the dark to very dark material due to the major difference in on/off contrast.

Might be a problem with your equipment then, i know my meter measures a bit lower than some others, but not that much, and in the same setup conditions its fairly good guide of the difference.
Didrik got around the same results as i did, its as simple as displaying the ansi testpattern on screen, if its not obviously better on the sony ill say you have some issues in your room. 
If you really apriciate the JVC ansi contrast and dont see the difference, you should try a good CRT, it will blow your ming with 5 times better on off contrast than you have ever seen before.

[Andreas21]

I am not going into a CRT discussion with you ever again.

The reason it is difficult to see the difference when it comes to ANSIcontrast is that it is a pattern and it is not very relevant when it comes to video material. And most rooms can not show more than 200-300:1 at the screen, not even a batcave. That is the reason I cant see much of a difference in bright material when side by side testing Sonys and JVCs.

There is not anything wrong with my equipment, but when a JVC X5900 only mesures 130:1 ANSI there is something wrong with the unit and it is not close to how a JVC in that range should measure.

ANSI is a 50% APL pattern and most movies we watch has a APL of around 10%, even The Art Of Flight has an average of 30% and it is mostly filmed outside in the snow.

And my Cineversum has an on/off at around 700000:1.

[stridsvognen]

I am not going into a CRT discussion with you ever again.

The reason it is difficult to see the difference when it comes to ANSIcontrast is that it is a pattern and it is not very relevant when it comes to video material. And most rooms can not show more than 200-300:1 at the screen, not even a batcave. That is the reason I cant see much of a difference in bright material when side by side testing Sonys and JVCs.

There is not anything wrong with my equipment, but when a JVC X5900 only mesures 130:1 ANSI there is something wrong with the unit and it is not close to how a JVC in that range should measure.

ANSI is a 50% APL pattern and most movies we watch has a APL of around 10%, even The Art Of Flight has an average of 30% and it is mostly filmed outside in the snow.

And my Cineversum has an on/off at around 700000:1.

Yeah with a dynamic iris, but that dont really work in dark scenes as it compleetly messes up your gamma performance out of black, your lucky if you have 70000:1 with auto iris turned off, im talking about true contrast not manipulated gimick contrast.True the JVC most likely measure around 150:1 using the Klein K10A but again the SONY also measure higher.
What you could do is setup your meter shoot a picture of the setup conditions and the measurements and post it here, only takes 10 min to do.

I do also remember your contrast measurements on the norwegian forum where Gorm had to correct your calculations so im fairly sceptical about your measurements, you seem to be on your own here, if i recall it was actually around 30000:1

Most of Oblivion shows quite well the superior ANSI from the SONY, even in low level scenes, and good ansi also help low level scenes remain more well defined as they elevate as it will push up the point where the bright elements effects the dark areas. Ansi works at any APL, you can try measure a 10% window on your rebadged JVC with a average image surrounding the measuring pattern, and see how it effects all your readings, HCFR have a feature like that, quite interesting. And here ANSI contrast plays a big role keeping the surrounding not poluting the testpattern. Very relevant to how movie content works out.
With CRT i measure around 100:1 ansi contrast, and all the JVC projectors are very identical except a X30 that measured 80:1 the rest is around 130:1 with my equipment, my meter is not optimal for ANSI as it most likely shoots a bit to wide cone, but its consistant, and ill think as good as your meter or maybe even better.

However ill have to take your word for it when you say you cant see the difference as its your eyes, and we all knows some see better or worse than others. Ill still apriciate the benefits of sonys high Ansi contrast, and lack of streaking and spot reflections, to the point ill like to see if i can mount a sony lens on a JVC and see if the issue is the lens itself or in the light engine.

[Andreas21]

ANSI is a testpattern with 50% APL and that is only what it is.

What you are talking about is intrascene contrast and then the JVC that is not fautly better than any Sony from 15% ADL and down. So your JVC is not a perfect unit.

I know what I am doing and I have actually learned Didrik how to do it and you seem to trust him.

My Cineversum measures over 120000:1 in the iris postition I use and the gamma modulation works perfect and you can not see it working with the DI on and it is not very measurable. With your equipment you can just dream about measuring anything under 10% anyway.

You own the worst of the JVC models and I own one of the best and I have done side by sides with 400 and 5/600 series and it is a no contest when it comes to dark material.

The time Gorm corrected a measurement you have to know the hole story, because when you measure contrast on a JVC facing the screen sometimes you get wrong readings and that is what happened in one of the screenshots I posted. To get perfect readings you have to measure facing the lens and I alway do that to check the readings from the screen. I measure at least 10 times from the screen to see and verify when measuring facing the lens. So I think you have no idea what you are accusing me of.

[Andreas21]

Here you can see my Cineversum in 2.35:1 mode in 16x9 mode it has even higher on/off as I close the iris down further.