2018 CEDIA projector thread

[Dylan Seeger]

I noticed a post on the other forum that got relatively unnoticed. Someone posted a video (that was in German) which discussed the new 4K panels found in these new JVC models. Luckily Madshi is German and gave us a paraphrased account of what was said.

He said:

Interesting. He's saying the new 4K panels are so different to the previous generation that they couldn't just put them into the Z1/RS4500, although they would have liked to. So it seems it will take some work to create a Z2 with the new panels.

Also, the new models are 24db instead of 21db, so a bit louder. However, the frequency of the noise is supposed to be less annoying, so subjective noise levels should be roughly identical to previous models.

JVC realized to make these projectors sell well they needed to increase contrast performance. Hence the new "3rd" generation panels I heard mentioned by Chris Deutsch of JVC in an interview given at CEDIA. I really appreciate JVC hearing our concerns and making sure what we want becomes a reality.

I also noticed someone say they think these new panels are internally refreshing at 480hz now based on some high frame rate slow motion footage they took of the new models at CEDIA. I wonder if we can confirm this?

So we're seeing upgrades in:

ANSI contrast
Native resolution
Panel Refresh
Lens quality
Video processing (HDR and CMD)
Input sync times
USB port for updates

All of these have been criticisms towards JVC so it's nice to see them directly address them. I'm hoping these panels are a little better with native motion handling too. Yes, we see a hit in native contrast, but it's still better than Sony and Epson and I fully expect JVC to continually increase contrast in the coming years. I think once we get a small increase in native contrast and a laser light source I'll be pretty close to owning my "perfect" projector...at least as far as foreseeable future goes for the type of content I'll be watching (UHD Bluray).

[Pultzar]

I wonder if the Z1 limitation on taking the new chips is optics/light path or electronics.  I was really hoping to see a new laser based design even if it is $$$.

[Dylan Seeger]

I would imagine JVC needed to find a way to reduce the cost of these new 4K panels and associated hardware to make them feasible at the current MSRPs we're seeing the new models at. I would image the panel drivers and video processing solution aren't quite as high quality as what was found on the Z1 and this is where the cost savings come in. The Z1's panels are probably not compatible with these new panel drivers and other control hardware/software, thus not being able to be retrofit into the Z1. Just my guess.

[Dylan Seeger]

Looks like a new remote design this year:

[AVSCraig]

Looks like a new remote design this year:

I saw that new remote in the RS3000 presentation. Looks clean and uncluttered.

[ARROW-AV]

JVC DLA-RS1000 / NX5

With respect to the following photos please note that this is an uncalibrated pre-production unit.

Therefore this has not been calibrated for accurate D65 white balance and there is a slight blue push.

Also, the projector was/is installed high up on ceiling with a large degree of vertical lens shift being applied.

And due to being a prototype unit with beta firmware, the dynamic contrast functionality was turned off; meaning this is with the projector operating at only 1/10th of its capability (max 40,000:1 ON/OFF versus 400,000:1)

Consequently, as impressive as is the performance as shown in these professional photography screenshots taken on the projector on demo at CEDIA 2018, the production units will produce even better performance than this.

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HERE'S A SINGLE PIXEL NATIVE 4K CHECKERBOARD TEST PATTERN:

The JVC DLA-RS1000/NX5 RESOLVES THIS PERFECTLY!:

2018 CEDIA projector thread

AND HERE'S A FEW MOVIE SCREENSHOTS:

2018 CEDIA projector thread

2018 CEDIA projector thread

2018 CEDIA projector thread

 

[Tom Bley]

Seen this in the other forum but, it's impressive to look at again    Thanks for posting, Nigel.

[Dylan Seeger]

Can't wait to see one in person! It's good to hear production units are expected to be even better.

[Archibald1]

I wonder if this tone mapping functionality took Sony and Epson by surprise? I wonder if we'll see this functionality set the standard among higher-end projectors in the industry and all subsequent models from all of these companies will have it. It's definitely something that's needed due to the variable nature of projection setups and their limited brightness capabilities. I wonder how it will compare to using MadVR's tone mapping functionality. I plan on playing around with both to see which one looks better.

In lieu of being caught with their pants down, Sony should start catching up by updating every projector from the last 2 years with every enhancement they can lever out of the hardware and then they need to develop an entirely new platform for their next generation projectors that NEED to have resolved every ancient underlying issue that has ever been brought up/fed back to them. 

………If they don't want to hand the market over to JVC that is.
I can imagine some short sighted Sony exec in a meeting saying that they are too big in the market, so they will never lose enough of their market share to JVC to worry about it...

Well, unless things change, JVC will be my next purchase if the results from the projector comparisons go the way that everyone is expecting! 

[Dylan Seeger]

In lieu of being caught with their pants down, Sony should start catching up by updating every projector from the last 2 years with every enhancement they can lever out of the hardware and then they need to develop an entirely new platform for their next generation projectors that NEED to have resolved every ancient underlying issue that has ever been brought up/fed back to them. 

………If they don't want to hand the market over to JVC that is.
I can imagine some short sighted Sony exec in a meeting saying that they are too big in the market, so they will never lose enough of their market share to JVC to worry about it...

Well, unless things change, JVC will be my next purchase if the results from the projector comparisons go the way that everyone is expecting! 

From what I've personally seen Sony has already given JVC the market. That's the case when we look at overall image quality. I'm not lying or embellishing at all when I say that I would rather own a JVC DLA-RS440 over a Sony VPL-VW885ES. I think in many objective and subjective ways the $3999 JVC projector beats the $25,000 Sony projector. And now the $3999 model is the RS540 which is an even better projector. These new native 4K models simply widen the gap even further in my opinion. But obviously I will wait to make a final judgement call on that once I get my RS2000 and can do a proper comparison.

Sony has one big thing going for it and that's brand appeal. People simply like owning a product with the Sony name on it. Now, I'm not saying their projectors look bad, on the contrary, they look excellent. I would own a Sony projector right now if JVC weren't making projectors. Sony is only beaten out by JVC in my opinion. Epson could be doing better in the enthusiast market if they wanted to but for some reason aren't producing more higher end models. I do think Sony goes about manufacturing projectors based upon knowing they have a much more widely known and trusted brand name. They know they don't have to give as much for the money (or even charge more) and people will still buy their projectors. This is one of the main reasons why you see more enthusiasts own JVC projectors over Sony models. Enthusiasts don't care about the brand name as much. They're more about performance and bang for the buck, which is why most of us own JVCs.

[ericglo]

The only DLP faux k that I thought looked pretty good was the Hisense dual laser.

The 3000 looked good, but I felt I saw a "vibrating" to the image. Not sure if this was the eshift or what it was. Someone else said he saw the same. Hopefully this is isolated to the pre-production unit.

The JVC 1000 looked really good and hopefully will be that much better when the production units come out.

[Dylan Seeger]

I've contemplated about going to CEDIA a few times, but my impression is that you never really get a good look at anything while you're there. Plus, the nature of pre-production units makes it difficult to really judge performance. I live vicariously through you guys during CEDIA each year.

Good to hear about the HiSense model. I hope I can see one at some point. You're not the first person who I've heard that from with this model.

[ARROW-AV]

Absolutely agree regarding the $13,000 Hisense 120L10E Dual Laser projector

I would love to see the likes of JVC and SONY introduce dual red and blue laser projectors 

[Dylan Seeger]

Looking at the spec sheet now for the HiSense. I like how straight forward they are with the numbers. Listing a truthful 1500:1 native contrast ratio but also what they acheive dynamically.

I assume part of the magic with this projector is the screen they include? DLP can be greatly helped with a nice ALR and grey (or black) base color screen.

[ARROW-AV]

Looking at the spec sheet now for the HiSense. I like how straight forward they are with the numbers. Listing a truthful 1500:1 native contrast ratio but also what they acheive dynamically.

I assume part of the magic with this projector is the screen they include? DLP can be greatly helped with a nice ALR and grey (or black) base color screen.

There isn't really any magic. The contrast and blacks with low APL content look terrible. But the chroma performance is superb due to the dual laser. Reds and skin tones in particular are a noticeable step up in performance, not unexpectedly!