"4K UHD", "True 4K", "Real 4K", and "Native 4K"

[AVSMike]

Just finished watching Passengers again. looked great on the 4500. Even the space scenes looked good.

[Kris Deering]

Nope not worth it if you have a good sample eshift 4 machine.

Sure the picture may be more analogue, but its at a loss of pure sharpness IMO.

We LOST usable MTF by going to Eshift 5. Thats just a fact. Its clearly visible from where I sit, I see it on PC desktop things clearly, Kodi Menu's my chroma test pattern shows it too. In video the image actually appears a little flatter as a result.

If eshift 5 cannot replicate very small black line spacing between letters as well as previously I don't want anything to do with it. From the chair this is also more obvious, eshift 4 with this pattern from my seating position looks very very crisp and sharp, you actually have to look closer to see that there are truncated pixels there as we all know.

Eshift 5 from the chair looks like its slightly defocused by comparison, but obviously the lettering looks more full and complete.

Its all a step sideways at best. Some will prefer it, I dont.

9900

"4K UHD", "True 4K", "Real 4K", and "Native 4K"

9500

"4K UHD", "True 4K", "Real 4K", and "Native 4K"

Rollover

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121753

You also have to realise this overall softness (but resolution being ultimately higher) was why I sold my 4K Sony. I kept my JVC because the raw crispness and sharpness coupled with eshift 4 brought me so close to 4k that I felt it was worth giving a little in resolution to gain that, I think eshift 5 gets closer to the full resolution at 4k but it gives up some of that raw sharpness, which is the main reason I have stayed with JVC unto this point.

If I wanted that softness I would just buy a 4K Sony.

I'm working on my 885ES review right now and the few times I've compared it to the RS4500 with content, the "softness" is VERY easy to see. If you didn't have the other to compare to I could completely understand the raves, but in direct comparison with them properly setup it isn't very hard to tell the difference.

[Dylan Seeger]

I'm working on my 885ES review right now and the few times I've compared it to the RS4500 with content, the "softness" is VERY easy to see. If you didn't have the other to compare to I could completely understand the raves, but in direct comparison with them properly setup it isn't very hard to tell the difference.

Kris, do you feel this is due to how Sony is displaying information on their panels or do you feel it's due mostly to lens quality? The 285ES I had here had some issues with test patterns (even with the fine-pixel convergence software turned off in the service menu). My theory is that Sony is doing some wonky things to try and feed their 4K SXRD panels information on a discreet per-pixel basis. Some digital resolution loss seems to be occurring. Mostly chroma information. It's something I've seen as far back as the 1000ES. It would be interesting to see you touch on this comparison in your review if your word count isn't too limited. I think people would find it interesting to know why the 885ES isn't as sharp, because I think a lot of people are going to presume it's wholly based on  lens quality differences. From my experience a good lens sample in a 2xx/3xx/6xx/8xx SXRD projector can get pretty close in terms of pixel delineation to the lens found in the 1xxx/5xxx models. A 665ES I had here actually surprised me in this regard. The 285ES was not as good (despite all the talk of a "better" lens) but I'm going to assume they're handpicking better built lenses for the 6xx/8xx models.

If you get a chance, can you take a look at these 10 bit gradient tests on the 885ES? The second one I think is more revealing (the rotating one). The 285ES did not pass this test. Lots of banding could be seen. The JVC eshifters passed with flying colors. I'm wondering how the 885ES looks (and even the RS4500).

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2269338-10-bit-gradient-test-patterns.html

[ericglo]

I'm working on my 885ES review right now and the few times I've compared it to the RS4500 with content, the "softness" is VERY easy to see. If you didn't have the other to compare to I could completely understand the raves, but in direct comparison with them properly setup it isn't very hard to tell the difference.

Be prepared for the angry mob. I hear Roxie is sharpening his pitchfork as I type.

On another note, Darin said you were busy till after the first of the year. Was there any discussion about getting together with the guy from AVS that has the UHZ65?

[Dylan Seeger]

Be prepared for the angry mob. I hear Roxie is sharpening his pitchfork as I type.

On another note, Darin said you were busy till after the first of the year. Was there any discussion about getting together with the guy from AVS that has the UHZ65?

Roxiedog will claim a bad lens or something like that. I will put money on it now.

[Kris Deering]

I'm not worried about Roxie. Honestly, so far I've been pretty impressed with the 885ES from a subjective standpoint. I haven't gotten too far into the measurements and objective testing yet. I only plan on some passing comments when comparing it to the 4500, and only because they are both laser and native 4K. Their price points set them apart quite a ways, but they definitely have performance differences (especially peak brightness). I wish I had a 385ES on hand to be honest. It would help me more in evaluating value in comparison to the rest of their line.

[AVSCraig]

I'm not worried about Roxie. Honestly, so far I've been pretty impressed with the 885ES from a subjective standpoint. I haven't gotten too far into the measurements and objective testing yet. I only plan on some passing comments when comparing it to the 4500, and only because they are both laser and native 4K. Their price points set them apart quite a ways, but they definitely have performance differences (especially peak brightness). I wish I had a 385ES on hand to be honest. It would help me more in evaluating value in comparison to the rest of their line.

I think the VW885 is going to fit a lot of people's needs, and it certainly looked good at Cedia. But you're right - they don't exist in the same price catagory, and some people will have trouble physically fitting an RS4500 in their theater. I had to re-build my projector closet just to get it in! I am looking forward to reading your review !

[Dylan Seeger]

I'm not worried about Roxie. Honestly, so far I've been pretty impressed with the 885ES from a subjective standpoint. I haven't gotten too far into the measurements and objective testing yet. I only plan on some passing comments when comparing it to the 4500, and only because they are both laser and native 4K. Their price points set them apart quite a ways, but they definitely have performance differences (especially peak brightness). I wish I had a 385ES on hand to be honest. It would help me more in evaluating value in comparison to the rest of their line.

I'm sure the 885ES looks great. All the Sony 4K models I've seen looked very very good. Is it possible to test that Stacey Spears rotating 10 bit pattern for me? I'm just curious how a higher up Sony model handles it.

[ericglo]

It looks like Runt is going after Kris now.

[Kris Deering]

I'm sure the 885ES looks great. All the Sony 4K models I've seen looked very very good. Is it possible to test that Stacey Spears rotating 10 bit pattern for me? I'm just curious how a higher up Sony model handles it.

Yes, I will be evaluating how it does with those patterns.

[stanger89]

As for Ronny, I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

To be clear, I don't think he's doing anything intentional, I think he's just inexperienced, as are the folks who are using his settings. 

[ericglo]

To be clear, I don't think he's doing anything intentional, I think he's just inexperienced, as are the folks who are using his settings.

I understood that and agree.

Now Runt is really going after Kris. I am biting my tongue.

[Dylan Seeger]

Yes, I will be evaluating how it does with those patterns.

Thanks Kris, much appreciated!

[Javs]

I understood that and agree.

Now Runt is really going after Kris. I am biting my tongue.

Who is Runt? Is that Ruined?

[ericglo]

Who is Runt? Is that Ruined?

Yes, like runt of the litter. He has went after Kris in the Optoma thread for his "biased" review of the Benq. Admittedly everyone has biases, but that is like the pot calling the kettle black (or light grey in this case ).