JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

[AVSCraig]

Speaking of blu-rays, I swear that mine became blurrier the more I watched UHD.  I viewed UHD titles as 'decently sharp' and blu-rays reminiscent of DVDs.      Crazy since I never used to think that Blu-rays lacked resolution before.   Honestly, I think my Sim2 gave a sharper impression overall - probably due to the high ANSI contrast (and no, I'm not suggesting that the Sim2 is the better projector in any other way and I'm very happy with my JVC).

So, after reading reports here and there about madVR 's great scaling I have been curious - but pessimistic - how good it could be.  After all, I could scale 1080p in the JVC, the Panny, or my Lumagen and the JVC was the better of all 3.  Still, I suspected that setting up madVR involves jumping through hoops upside down and praying to the video gods and I wasn't overly motivated. 

Until I learned that you can now rip UHDs.  I say 'now' but it's been a little while - I'm just late to the party.  I already have a movie server and truly appreciate how fast you can load up a movie or jump around chapters from a hard disc and not have to load discs.  I often revisit movies I've seen to watch favorite chapters etc., so my motivation escalated.   

Well it took me a couple days to put everything together but I have to say I'm very happy I made the move.  I already have 23 titles ripped.  But I'm here to say that madVR's scaling is truly top notch.  There is a VERY visible difference with 1080p titles.  I had to pick up my jaw off the floor several times yesterday when surfing around my collection.  The resulting image is very natural and film-like and no longer feels like I'm watching a DNR'd 4k disc. 

Anyways, just thought I'd share.  Not for technophobes, but if you're a PQ nut like I am and not scared of computers, it's worth it.

I've been pretty impressed with the UB900 upscaling. Anyway, I'd need to rip nearly 500 Blu - rays. 

[Madfloyd]

I've been pretty impressed with the UB900 upscaling. Anyway, I'd need to rip nearly 500 Blu - rays. 

Been there. Done that.

[DLCPhoto]

Speaking of blu-rays, I swear that mine became blurrier the more I watched UHD.  I viewed UHD titles as 'decently sharp' and blu-rays reminiscent of DVDs.      Crazy since I never used to think that Blu-rays lacked resolution before.   Honestly, I think my Sim2 gave a sharper impression overall - probably due to the high ANSI contrast (and no, I'm not suggesting that the Sim2 is the better projector in any other way and I'm very happy with my JVC).

So, after reading reports here and there about madVR 's great scaling I have been curious - but pessimistic - how good it could be.  After all, I could scale 1080p in the JVC, the Panny, or my Lumagen and the JVC was the better of all 3.  Still, I suspected that setting up madVR involves jumping through hoops upside down and praying to the video gods and I wasn't overly motivated. 

Until I learned that you can now rip UHDs.  I say 'now' but it's been a little while - I'm just late to the party.  I already have a movie server and truly appreciate how fast you can load up a movie or jump around chapters from a hard disc and not have to load discs.  I often revisit movies I've seen to watch favorite chapters etc., so my motivation escalated.   

Well it took me a couple days to put everything together but I have to say I'm very happy I made the move.  I already have 23 titles ripped.  But I'm here to say that madVR's scaling is truly top notch.  There is a VERY visible difference with 1080p titles.  I had to pick up my jaw off the floor several times yesterday when surfing around my collection.  The resulting image is very natural and film-like and no longer feels like I'm watching a DNR'd 4k disc. 

Anyways, just thought I'd share.  Not for technophobes, but if you're a PQ nut like I am and not scared of computers, it's worth it.

I've been reading the MadVR posts by Manni and others, and it does intrigue me.  I've been doing some reading, but have never had a HTPC.

Can you provide a link to an intro for dummies for the basic steps needed to set this up?  I'm not looking for comprehensive step-by-step details, but more an overview of what hardware is needed, what gets connected to what, using what kind of connection, etc.

The same with respect to ripping UHD's: what hardware/software is needed?
Is this lossless, and do you maintain access to lossless audio tracks, including Atmos?

[Dylan Seeger]

So, after reading reports here and there about madVR 's great scaling I have been curious - but pessimistic - how good it could be.

I've been using madVR for many many years now. I actually sold my UB900 about 2 weeks ago now that I can use my PC for everything (1080p, 3D and now UHD BD). I have about 30 UHD BD titles ripped to my PC. The UB900 is nice for convenience, but if you want the absolute best image quality, madVR is the way to go for all types of bluray whether it be 1080p, 3D or UHD! The quality of it's scaling, rendering and granular control over every facet of the processing, scaling and rendering process is second to none.

[AVSCraig]

I've been using madVR for many many years now. I actually sold my UB900 about 2 weeks ago now that I can use my PC for everything (1080p, 3D and now UHD BD). I have about 30 UHD BD titles ripped to my PC. The UB900 is nice for convenience, but if you want the absolute best image quality, madVR is the way to go for all types of bluray whether it be 1080p, 3D or UHD! The quality of it's scaling, rendering and granular control over every facet of the processing, scaling and rendering process is second to none.

I more or less hate computers, but what kind of money are we talking for a HTPC - full bells and whistles, fast as a falcon on meth, and storage for 400 Blu-rays and 250 4K Blu-rays ?

[Madfloyd]

I've been reading the MadVR posts by Manni and others, and it does intrigue me.  I've been doing some reading, but have never had a HTPC.

Can you provide a link to an intro for dummies for the basic steps needed to set this up?  I'm not looking for comprehensive step-by-step details, but more an overview of what hardware is needed, what gets connected to what, using what kind of connection, etc.

The same with respect to ripping UHD's: what hardware/software is needed?
Is this lossless, and do you maintain access to lossless audio tracks, including Atmos?

Some of the links I read that are guides aren't so easy to follow, but I certainly would be willing to help (and perhaps make a guide) if someone is serious about going that route.

A few quick answers:

To rip your movies (blu-rays or UHDs):

You would need to buy an optical drive and ripping software.

This is the drive to buy ($80): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DWFPDJI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The software is called MakeMKV (www.makemkv.com) and is inexpensive. 

Yes, it's totally lossless, both video and audio. 

Keep in mind that UHDs range from 40 to 80 GBs so you'd need hard drive space (e.g. a NAS).

Concept of an HTPC
This is basically a computer with a decent graphics card that outputs via HDMI just like a bl-ray player but instead of putting in discs, you browse your collection (using a different software package designed for that) and select a movie.  Movie starts playing and you watch, pause, stop etc.   

The computer would be on your network so it could access your movie files (which typically wouldn't reside in the same computer).

And of course you would typically setup a remote control so that you can do all this from your chair.

So there's a few things to consider:

- You need a PC.
- You need a decent graphics card ($400+)
- You need hard drive space - if you don't have a NAS you'll probably want to buy one and fill it with hard drives.
- You need to locate the computer within HDMI cable distance of your home theater
- You need a remote control setup of some kind
- You need to be able to install a few different software packages and follow step-by-step instructions to get them all talking to each other.

Anyways, hopefully that gives you an idea.

[Madfloyd]

I more or less hate computers, but what kind of money are we talking for a HTPC - full bells and whistles, fast as a falcon on meth, and storage for 400 Blu-rays and 250 4K Blu-rays ?

If you have an aversion to computers, I'd stay away. 

But to answer your question, the PC doesn't need to be super fast, it's the graphics card that truly matters.  It's going to cost more than your Panasonic - I dunno, maybe $1200 (wild guess, haven't bought a PC lately).

As for storage, the NAS (thing that holds the hard drives) can be expensive depending on how many hard drive bays you want (the more the merrier).  I have four of them (not all just for movies) and they range from a few hundred dollars to around 1k.   Hard drives then

If the average Blu-ray is 25GB, you would need (25x400 = 10 terabytes).   Nowadays you can get one hard drive that size for under $400, but of course you want more than that so if a hard drive dies you aren't up the creek.   I would plan on buying 4 of these or so to start.

And the UHDs average around twice the size of the Blu-rays (say 50gb) so unfortunately your 250 discs would require
1.2 terabytes (plus room to grow and have some safety etc). 

So if I haven't totally scared you away, it's going to be something like 4 thousand dollars or so.

[AVSCraig]

That $ is needed for a new 13 channel Denon X8500, but I'll certainly keep it in mind as a future possibility. As it is, Blu-ray can rival 4K now - with my current set up.

[DLCPhoto]

@Madfloyd

Thanks for your replies to both my queries, and to Craig's.  They give me exactly what I need to determine if this is something I wish to pursue.

The question I have to answer for myself is whether or not the benefit is worth the time and expense.  I'm kind of tech oriented to begin with, so can probably accomplish this, but this is a fairly formidable task, both in terms of time and expense.  But you've given me the broad outline to figure out if this is a road I want to travel!

All the best,
Don

[Dylan Seeger]

The PC would probably cost around $1000 plus harddrives. For your 250 UHD Blurays and 400 1080p Blurays I'd say you'd need 30 TB of space. Four 8TB harddrives will run you about $500-$600 total.  This would still be cheaper than a lumagen but offer even better scaling and additional functionality.

[Tom Bley]

Thanks Dylan and Floyd.   I've been wondering about this myself.   My collection is not nearly as big, maybe 250 Blu-Rays and as of now 36 UHD Blu-Rays.   If someone makes a list of the hardware for the PC I would have someone build it for me and load up the software.  What nas is popular?   A few years back when I was researching I heard of Synology.   What do you guys do for a back up?  Is that just why you buy a lot more drive space than what you need so its enough for a backup in case one of the drives goes?

This should go in the appropriate thread if we have one .

[AVSCraig]

The PC would probably cost around $1000 plus harddrives. For your 250 UHD Blurays and 400 1080p Blurays I'd say you'd need 30 TB of space. Four 8TB harddrives will run you about $500-$600 total. This would still be cheaper than a lumagen but offer even better scaling and additional functionality.

Are SSD's still recommended ? Those look to be more expensive for sure. Anyway, I'm hanging tight until I see what the new UB820's possible HDR tone mapping and the Oppo's upcoming HDR tone mapping bring to the table.   

[Madfloyd]

You wouldn't use SSDs for media storage - not necessary and way too expensive.

Tom, Synology is the brand I've gone with.  Basically how it works is you insert a number of hard drives and Synology gives you less than the total amount of space you'd expect, but you have the peace of mind knowing that if one hard drive dies, your data is still intact (you replace the hard drive and it re-builds itself). 

It's still smart to have a full backup (in case two drives died at the same time), but if you have your original discs I don't think it's vital.

[DLCPhoto]

You would need to buy an optical drive and ripping software.

This is the drive to buy ($80): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DWFPDJI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Will this allow ripping UHD Blu-rays?  The description at Amazon only indicates Blu-ray, and at least up until fairly recently, there weren't UHD-BD PC drives.

I've used MakeMKV before, so am familiar with that - apparently it's now able to handle UHD-BD as well?

In addition to MadVR, what software is needed?

What do you use for remote control?  I've got a Harmony Smart Remote and Hub, which works extremely well for controlling my current system - would this be able to control an HTPC setup, or would I need a different method?

I have to admit, I am intrigued by the idea.

[Madfloyd]

Will this allow ripping UHD Blu-rays?  The description at Amazon only indicates Blu-ray, and at least up until fairly recently, there weren't UHD-BD PC drives.

I've used MakeMKV before, so am familiar with that - apparently it's now able to handle UHD-BD as well?

In addition to MadVR, what software is needed?

What do you use for remote control?  I've got a Harmony Smart Remote and Hub, which works extremely well for controlling my current system - would this be able to control an HTPC setup, or would I need a different method?

I have to admit, I am intrigued by the idea.

Don, this drive will absolutely read and rip UHDs.  Technically UHDs are Blu-rays.  They are either BD-50, BD-66 or BD-100 (the number indicating the capacity).  The copy-protection is very different than regular Blu-rays however. 

MakeMkv will rip them (I can personally vouch for that since I've been ripping non-stop) but it does rely on having decryption keys.  Basically this is a 'key' file containing a list of known codes for all UHD titles.  It's a download available from the MakeMKV site.  It's possible that you would try to rip a UHD and the key wouldn't be in your file (e.g. not deciphered yet) and you would have to wait a bit to get an updated 'key' file.

In addition to MadVR, you need software that allows you to browse titles and all upon MadVR to play back the movie that you choose.  I am using Kodi DSPlayer.  It's free and seems pretty good.  I used to use something called Plex (for regular HD titles that I ripped) but it doesn't have the capability to use MadVR (which you really want).

I am also using Harmony smart remote and hub.  Can this control an HTPC? Yes.  You would need to get a usb bluetooth thingamajig so that Harmony could communicate with the HTPC but this is no big deal in terms of cost or installation.

Ian