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JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #645 on: April 16, 2017, 06:31:01 PM »
is there anyone having a SMPTE 2084 gamma measurement of the different settings.? Or what is the target for your HDR adjustments.?

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #646 on: April 17, 2017, 10:54:22 AM »
Thanks, will try! :)

I watched " Arrival " again last night on 4K Blu-ray. Looked better than ever. I had just updated the firmware on my Panasonic UB900. Wonder if that had any changes picture wise ?

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #647 on: April 18, 2017, 08:48:42 AM »
Tested X-Men: Apocalypse and I have to say (finally); WOW! Light output is still about the same as with regular SDR now, and no black crush as far as I could tell. Dynamics looks very good, for example in the factory at the start of the movie where sparks are far more dynamically reproduced than in regular SDR mode while still maintaining overall brightness. I´ll certainly try some more discs, but using the latest firmware on UB900 / Z1 seems to finally have unlocked the true HDR potential of this setup! :) I will also try the Kris Deering HDR tweak that was suggested here and see if this improves the performance any further, but again; on this particular movie at least, HDR mode introduces neither any significant loss of light output as far as I can tell and also retains details in blacks - and seems to work fine also on my 13 feet wide 0.8 gain AT screen - good riddance!! Also, I did not see the laser pulse once during my 20 minutes or so test...
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 09:04:23 AM by lygren »
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AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #648 on: April 18, 2017, 11:10:33 AM »
Tested X-Men: Apocalypse and I have to say (finally); WOW! Light output is still about the same as with regular SDR now, and no black crush as far as I could tell. Dynamics looks very good, for example in the factory at the start of the movie where sparks are far more dynamically reproduced than in regular SDR mode while still maintaining overall brightness. I´ll certainly try some more discs, but using the latest firmware on UB900 / Z1 seems to finally have unlocked the true HDR potential of this setup! :) I will also try the Kris Deering HDR tweak that was suggested here and see if this improves the performance any further, but again; on this particular movie at least, HDR mode introduces neither any significant loss of light output as far as I can tell and also retains details in blacks - and seems to work fine also on my 13 feet wide 0.8 gain AT screen - good riddance!! Also, I did not see the laser pulse once during my 20 minutes or so test...

Excellent! That's what Mike and I have been seeing. Now I need to find time to watch more 4K Blu-rays !

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #649 on: April 18, 2017, 01:22:35 PM »
Probably I should add that I adjusted the HDR mode to max light output on the UB900, a feature I do not believe was available until quite recently? Anyhow; auto HDR @ Z1 (RS4500) + max bright HDR mode @ UB900 really seems to be an excellent combo also for larger screen setups. I might not get all the "HDR dynamics" available, but there is certainly some added dynamics, but only at a very slight cost of light. Just like I "ordered", only thing that might be even better is Dolby Vision - but I guess for projectors and all variables accounted for, the DV would end up reducing the HDR-effect to just about the same level I´m using now anyhow, so why bother... ;)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 01:27:00 PM by lygren »
Proudly Representing DreamScreen.no // ScreenAcoustics.com // AT screens & more!

Founder AVforum.no // Norway´s leading AV community since 2002

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #650 on: April 19, 2017, 11:29:36 AM »
Probably I should add that I adjusted the HDR mode to max light output on the UB900, a feature I do not believe was available until quite recently? Anyhow; auto HDR @ Z1 (RS4500) + max bright HDR mode @ UB900 really seems to be an excellent combo also for larger screen setups. I might not get all the "HDR dynamics" available, but there is certainly some added dynamics, but only at a very slight cost of light. Just like I "ordered", only thing that might be even better is Dolby Vision - but I guess for projectors and all variables accounted for, the DV would end up reducing the HDR-effect to just about the same level I´m using now anyhow, so why bother... ;)

What setting are you using to do this ? If it's a new feature, I may have missed it.

Never mind - Zombie10K clarified it for me. Same slider ( in the menu anyway ) as " dynamic range conversion " ( when using SDR BT2020 ). Interesting - I need to play with this some more.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 01:47:44 PM by AVSCraig »

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #651 on: April 20, 2017, 11:44:19 AM »
Probably I should add that I adjusted the HDR mode to max light output on the UB900, a feature I do not believe was available until quite recently? Anyhow; auto HDR @ Z1 (RS4500) + max bright HDR mode @ UB900 really seems to be an excellent combo also for larger screen setups. I might not get all the "HDR dynamics" available, but there is certainly some added dynamics, but only at a very slight cost of light. Just like I "ordered", only thing that might be even better is Dolby Vision - but I guess for projectors and all variables accounted for, the DV would end up reducing the HDR-effect to just about the same level I´m using now anyhow, so why bother... ;)

I played around with this setting on the Panasonic UB900 a bit more last night. Used " Star Trek " on 4K BR - absolutely works great!

jetsen

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #652 on: April 20, 2017, 03:07:39 PM »
Quote
Probably I should add that I adjusted the HDR mode to max light output on the UB900, a feature I do not believe was available until quite recently? Anyhow; auto HDR @ Z1 (RS4500) + max bright HDR mode @ UB900 really seems to be an excellent combo also for larger screen setups. I might not get all the "HDR dynamics" available, but there is certainly some added dynamics, but only at a very slight cost of light.

Be careful with this setting, putting it to max will clip a lot of highlights in a movie with has some very bright scenes.
I added two pictures with the HDR slider to 6 and then to max with is 12, you can see that almost all of the white details in the snow and sky are gone.
It can be certainly very helpful but should be used with a lot of care, in darker movies where there is not to much of highlights you can probably afford to go a bit higher.
Just put in the Spyder man disc and put the clipping pattern on with the code on the remote, when you adjust the HDR slider on the Pan. you can seer perfectly what you are clipping.
The UHD of Everest is a good test to do this, some very good scenes with high picture level to play around with the slider.

I must say that when playing around there is definitely a lot of benefit to get, in combination with the updated software on the Z1 I will not use the trip HDR metadata with the Fury integral anymore.

I did adjust the Black gamma on the Pana. with just one click, to get some extra detail in the blacks, the HDR slider is on 7 (what is actually already a bit high for this movie, 5 would be better) laser is on mid with max setting and auto dimming on 2.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 04:24:21 PM by jetsen »

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #653 on: April 20, 2017, 04:08:45 PM »
Be careful with this setting, putting it to max will clip a lot of highlights in a movie with has some very bright scenes.
I added two pictures with the HDR slider to 6 and then to max with is 12, you can see that almost all of the white details in the snow and sky are gone.
It can be certainly very helpful but should be used with a lot of care, in darker movies where there is not to much of highlights you can probably afford to go a bit higher.
Just put in the Spyder man disc and put the clipping pattern on with the code on the remote, when you adjust the HDR slider on the Pan. you can seer perfectly what you are clipping.
The UHD of Everest is a good test to do this, some very good scenes with high picture level to play around with the slider.

I must say that when playing around there is definitely a lot of benefit to get, in combination with the updated software on the Z1 I will not use the trip HDR metadata with the Fury integral anymore.

I did adjust the Black gamma on the Pana. with just one click, to get some extra detail in the blacks, the HDR slider is on 7 and laser is on mid with max setting and auto dimming on 2.

Everest is a great test disc - several snow scenes to watch to make sure that details in the glacier / snow scenes aren't being lost.

jetsen

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #654 on: April 20, 2017, 04:26:38 PM »
Everest is a great test disc - several snow scenes to watch to make sure that details in the glacier / snow scenes aren't being lost.

It is, you can find some good scenes to play with the HDR slider and see how far you can go before things get worse instead of better :-)


AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #655 on: April 20, 2017, 05:10:06 PM »
It is, you can find some good scenes to play with the HDR slider and see how far you can go before things get worse instead of better :-)

I've got a top notch calibrator coming in a little over 2 weeks, so I will just play with this until he gets here, and then the two of us can drill down to the best settings to use !

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #656 on: April 21, 2017, 06:08:56 AM »
Thanks for the heads up Jetsen, will try lower it to avoid clipping. I hope this new UB900-feature does not introduce issues in the greyscale-tracking which is clearly the case when reducing HDR-level on the Epson E-shift projectors for example... HDR is seemingly a rather tough beast to tame....! ;)
Proudly Representing DreamScreen.no // ScreenAcoustics.com // AT screens & more!

Founder AVforum.no // Norway´s leading AV community since 2002

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #657 on: April 21, 2017, 01:18:33 PM »
Thanks for the heads up Jetsen, will try lower it to avoid clipping. I hope this new UB900-feature does not introduce issues in the greyscale-tracking which is clearly the case when reducing HDR-level on the Epson E-shift projectors for example... HDR is seemingly a rather tough beast to tame....! ;)

On the other hand, how does it look on your screen ?  :)

jetsen

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #658 on: April 21, 2017, 01:29:07 PM »
Thanks for the heads up Jetsen, will try lower it to avoid clipping. I hope this new UB900-feature does not introduce issues in the greyscale-tracking which is clearly the case when reducing HDR-level on the Epson E-shift projectors for example... HDR is seemingly a rather tough beast to tame....! ;)

I did not have te time to measure yet because I threw in about 8 movies to test a lot of different scenes in relation to the use of the new feature.
I must say overall I am very pleased with the results so far, i did however put on a grey scale ramp and moved the slider and I think there is some difference in white balance.
I will try to do some measurements tomorrow to see what and how things work out.
Alos exited about the news that HDR10+ is coming soon, Samsung told on the press conference that the 2016 models will get a firmware update to make them compatible. I do hope that the hardware in the Z1 is also capable of supporting HDR10+ via firmware update. I know that dynamic metadata in a projector is a lot more problematic than on a flat panel because it relates to the max light output of the devise but still, one can only hope :-)

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #659 on: April 21, 2017, 04:57:54 PM »
Are you guys feeding the projector SDR from the player letting it do the HDR to SDR convertion?
If so what SDR gamma are you running.?

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