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JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

AVSMike

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #360 on: January 26, 2017, 02:50:14 PM »
I concur with Arrow's observations.  This projector CAN put out a huge amount of noise if room temperature goes up.  I've had to reactivate my cooling feed and ensure the room is up to temperature before running the projector to avoid the aircon dumping super heated air into the room and upsetting it.  Once the film is running it tends to get lost in the background until the soundtracks goes quiet.

Light output is poor - I measure ~1600 lumens @D65 from a 26' throw with iris wide open.

BUT, it's also the best image I've seen so far in my room, and the constant brightness light source means no dimming, like bulbs, so I'll probably be keeping it.  Need more viewing.

Mark, remind me screen size, aspect ratio and fabric?
My Baffle Wall System: https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=124.msg902#msg902

Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Da-Lite, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan & more.

mark_h

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #361 on: January 26, 2017, 03:54:15 PM »
Screen size is 180" 2.35, screen research CP2 gain 0.86.  Throw 26'.  Lux measured at screen with CA183 and off screen with Klein K10A. 
My cinema: The Cave

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #362 on: January 26, 2017, 04:01:02 PM »
Screen size is 180" 2.35, screen research CP2 gain 0.86.  Throw 26'.  Lux measured at screen with CA183 and off screen with Klein K10A.

That's a pretty good sized screen !

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #363 on: January 26, 2017, 04:27:51 PM »
That may be true. I have a feeling this could be a reference projector for smaller screens. Kris's screen is higher gain and much smaller than the one you used. I'll bet he had the iris closed much more, so that the dynamic dimming doesn't work as hard. That said, it sure lit up a big screen at Cedia.
Bingo! That is precisely why we are recommending this projector for use with screens of circa 2.7 metres / 9 feet wide or less which is the size that allows you you make use of the various options that significantly positively influence image contrast such as closing down the iris... Where like I have said, this projector does produce a very nice looking image when it is NOT operating balls-to-the-wall maximum everything minimum contrast with no lumens headroom and (again speculating) negatively affecting the performance of the laser dynamic dimming... In other words, with the right application, namely 'sensible'/appropriate screen size in a low ambient light level room you can achieve a lovely looking image with this projector... But if you want high brightness and deep blacks on a giant sized screen then this projector is not the correct choice. :)

This does beg the question, what is the demand for a $35,000 reference projector for small-to-medium sized screens? I honestly have no idea what is the answer to that question... Thoughts?

AVSMike

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #364 on: January 26, 2017, 04:39:49 PM »
Screen size is 180" 2.35, screen research CP2 gain 0.86.  Throw 26'.  Lux measured at screen with CA183 and off screen with Klein K10A.

Based on the screen gain you gave, that is 2,000 lumens at your throw.
My Baffle Wall System: https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=124.msg902#msg902

Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Da-Lite, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan & more.

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #365 on: January 26, 2017, 04:56:41 PM »
Based on the screen gain you gave, that is 2,000 lumens at your throw.

Mike, all I see is where he posted lumen output. Did he post fL measurement somewhere?

I don't see how you calculated 2000 lumens based on the info he provided.

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #366 on: January 26, 2017, 04:59:43 PM »
Bingo! That is precisely why we are recommending this projector for use with screens of circa 2.7 metres / 9 feet wide or less which is the size that allows you you make use of the various options that significantly positively influence image contrast such as closing down the iris... Where like I have said, this projector does produce a very nice looking image when it is NOT operating balls-to-the-wall maximum everything minimum contrast with no lumens headroom and (again speculating) negatively affecting the performance of the laser dynamic dimming... In other words, with the right application, namely 'sensible'/appropriate screen size in a low ambient light level room you can achieve a lovely looking image with this projector... But if you want high brightness and deep blacks on a giant sized screen then this projector is not the correct choice. :)

This does beg the question, what is the demand for a $35,000 reference projector for small-to-medium sized screens? I honestly have no idea what is the answer to that question... Thoughts?

Well, my Sim2 Lumis Host ( ( $35K ) never achieved over 1100 lumens in low lamp ( no point in starting in high lamp as it won't be that bright but for a moment in time ). It also had about 6.9K:1 native and 12- 15K:1  dynamic contrast. I did a few shoot outs between that projector and my then new Sony VW600. Quite a few people preferred the Lumis. The Lumis was supposed to hit 3000 lumens, but I never saw even close to that. That $35K projector sold quite well ( and is still selling I imagine ).

I have a feeling that the RS4500 is having some initial QC teething pain. I say that because things are all over the place lumen / db / dynamic dimming wise. Was the unit at CES as loud as the one you have now? Certainly didn't seem loud at CES, even in full power for HDR. Mike and I will be getting ours next week it sounds like, so we will be able to add the the knowledge base.

jetsen

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #367 on: January 26, 2017, 05:51:33 PM »
Everyone that is going to ISE, I would very much like it if we could have a schort (or long ;-) meeting(meaning a drink and a nice chat) in Amsterdam.
I also think it would be good if at some point, we got together at the JVC booth, not to start a war but just to give som insight of what kind of remarks the different users like ourselves have.

I know they are always been very informative an willing to cooperate with me in all those years as a client, i think everyone can benefit from giving as much info and user remarks as possible.

And arrow still has to buy me a drink, so I will not take no for an answer ;-)

 

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #368 on: January 26, 2017, 05:52:04 PM »
I am very happy I never even considered this projector, as it sound like a real flop from JVC that is not delivering even close to specs. I am very disappointed with this and at the same time I am happy I did not preorder and spent all that cash on a projector performing worse than the 1080p e-shift models (and then I am talking about my own HT)...

A RS620 is most likely being ordered in a couple of weeks... :)
Regards
Andreas                                                           

Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #369 on: January 26, 2017, 06:16:41 PM »
Everyone that is going to ISE, I would very much like it if we could have a schort (or long ;-) meeting(meaning a drink and a nice chat) in Amsterdam.
I also think it would be good if at some point, we got together at the JVC booth, not to start a war but just to give som insight of what kind of remarks the different users like ourselves have.

I know they are always been very informative an willing to cooperate with me in all those years as a client, i think everyone can benefit from giving as much info and user remarks as possible.

And arrow still has to buy me a drink, so I will not take no for an answer ;-)

Always good to give feedback. I'm also curious as to why one unit measures 1600 lumens and another 2400 lumens ( Cine4Home on the other site ). Seems like some QC issues with the very first units. Hopefully this gets straightened out as more get manufactured.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 06:20:02 PM by AVSCraig »

Javs

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #370 on: January 26, 2017, 06:40:17 PM »
I am very happy I never even considered this projector, as it sound like a real flop from JVC that is not delivering even close to specs. I am very disappointed with this and at the same time I am happy I did not preorder and spent all that cash on a projector performing worse than the 1080p e-shift models (and then I am talking about my own HT)...

A RS620 is most likely being ordered in a couple of weeks... :)

I have an X9500 on order now too :)

Yeah this is kind of alarming regarding the Z1... IF this was actually shooting 3000lm in Rec709 near calibrated I don't think I would take as much issue, but it sounds like my incoming 9500 may be brighter in some circumstances, and have considerably more contrast, definitely giving up some sharpness, but that's a high cost indeed.
JVC X9500 (RS620) | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Emotiva 5175 | Rotel RMB-1555B | iNuke 3000DSP | Javelin Audio 7.4.2 System

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #371 on: January 26, 2017, 06:48:05 PM »
I have an X9500 on order now too :)

Yeah this is kind of alarming regarding the Z1... IF this was actually shooting 3000lm in Rec709 near calibrated I don't think I would take as much issue, but it sounds like my incoming 9500 may be brighter in some circumstances, and have considerably more contrast, definitely giving up some sharpness, but that's a high cost indeed.

With Cine4Home measuring over 2400 lumens, there has to be something wrong with some of these units. Someone speculated that maybe some of the laser diodes got jarred in shipping. With 8 banks of 6 diodes, that's 300 lumens per bank for 2400 lumens.

I really didn't want to drive to Southern CA to get mine, but I hate the thought of FedEx beating the snot out of it !

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #372 on: January 26, 2017, 07:24:44 PM »
I have an X9500 on order now too :)

Yeah this is kind of alarming regarding the Z1... IF this was actually shooting 3000lm in Rec709 near calibrated I don't think I would take as much issue, but it sounds like my incoming 9500 may be brighter in some circumstances, and have considerably more contrast, definitely giving up some sharpness, but that's a high cost indeed.

I am not giving up the contrast of the RS600/620 for a little sharper image and a lot more $, the RS4500 costs about 35000$ more than the RS620 in Norway... :)
Regards
Andreas                                                           

Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #373 on: January 26, 2017, 07:28:37 PM »
I am not giving up the contrast of the RS600/620 for a little sharper image and a lot more $, the RS4500 costs about 35000$ more than the RS620 in Norway... :)

It would be ironic if JVC's RS4500's strongest competitor, was their own RS620. But my RS600 has been a stunning projector over the last year, that's for sure.

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #374 on: January 26, 2017, 07:55:35 PM »
It was suspicious when the JVC product page for the RS4500 only mentioned the infinity:1 dynamic contrast ratio...

I'm curious if it is the chips themselves or the fact that they are larger which makes things more difficult to achieve higher ratios.

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