Sony VPL-VW285ES/385ES Thread

[mrtvgame]

Hi folks,

I am a long time reader here but fist time poster so go easy.

I currently have an Epson 5030UB running on a 115 inch 2.4 gain screen.  It is in a family room situation so while light can be an issue, it can be controlled.

I am having an itch to upgrade the projector to take advantage of 4k and HDR sources such as 4k blu-ray, 4k streaming services, PS4 Pro, Xbox One X and of course 3D.

I was all set and happy to jump on the 285 until the reviews and initial reactions with it having problems not doing 4k60 from sources properly.  Banding and what not.

I also consider JVC DLA-X590 or older DLA-X750R.

I am in Canada so prices are adjusted to exchange.  I can get the 285 for around $5100, the X590 for around $4250 and a demo unit X750R for around $4500.  I do not want to go must past $5200 as I will need to update the AVR receiver as well.

Or should I just hold out and see what 2018 brings?

What's important:
PQ all around
3D quality
Noise of fan

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Dylan Seeger]

The short answer I can give you is that, based on what's important to you, the X750 will be the best choice. In general, I feel that you need to step up to the high end Sony's (such as the 885ES or 5000ES) to give comparable overall image quality. The 285ES simply lacks the brightness and contrast to compete with these JVC projectors and this was something that was easy to see when I had the 285ES here. In my comparison post earlier in this thread, I tried my best to explain why I don't think eshift is giving much up in the way of on screen apparent resolution. This is mainly due to a few issues with how Sony drives their SXRD panels, which means they're not able to display the source signal faithfully. But I also think this has to do with how mature JVCs eshift technology has become.

3D is overall a better experience on the JVCs as well. There's shockingly low amounts of ghosting/crosstalk. It's to the point where it's almost indistinguishable from a DLP projector. By comparison, the 285ES still has a "typical" amount of ghosting normally associated with LCD based displays. When compared directly to the 285ES, you're getting a lot more lumens on the JVC as well which is always helpful when watching 3D due to a large loss of light when viewing through active 3D glasses.

Fan noise is also in favor of the JVCs. I mentioned in my comparison that to brightness match the JVC in low lamp mode, you have to put the Sony in high lamp mode and the difference in audible noise is massive when comparing the two. To achieve 1200 lumens of light (JVCs low lamp light output) the Sony needs to be in high lamp mode. You can hear the relative difference here with a recording I took:

The Sony does have an advantage with some 4K source material, but my findings are that 95%+ of the time, I find eshift on the JVC to give the same amount of subjective image detail on screen. The times I do notice that the Sony looks a bit sharper is almost always when there's text on screen. It's really only when the JVC needs to render things requiring square pixels, which is what text needs, that you can tell the JVC isn't native 4K. Again though, it's such a rare instance in seeing this and these moments are usually fleeting. I find the overall raw image quality of the JVCs easily makes up for the few moments where you might have a suspicion about eshift not being quite as good as a native 4K projector.

[AVSMike]

Hi folks,

I am a long time reader here but fist time poster so go easy.

I currently have an Epson 5030UB running on a 115 inch 2.4 gain screen.  It is in a family room situation so while light can be an issue, it can be controlled.

I am having an itch to upgrade the projector to take advantage of 4k and HDR sources such as 4k blu-ray, 4k streaming services, PS4 Pro, Xbox One X and of course 3D.

I was all set and happy to jump on the 285 until the reviews and initial reactions with it having problems not doing 4k60 from sources properly.  Banding and what not.

I also consider JVC DLA-X590 or older DLA-X750R.

I am in Canada so prices are adjusted to exchange.  I can get the 285 for around $5100, the X590 for around $4250 and a demo unit X750R for around $4500.  I do not want to go must past $5200 as I will need to update the AVR receiver as well.

Or should I just hold out and see what 2018 brings?

What's important:
PQ all around
3D quality
Noise of fan

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sent you an email.

[rob-houston]

Kraine has posted his review of the DLA-X5900 (DLA-RS440) here: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.projection-homecinema.fr%2F&sandbox=1.

Some quotes:
"Lcos technology generally gives a very uniform image. The X5900 is no exception to the rule, no appearance of bright corners as it could produce in the past or hot spot."

"Ultra HD support was already at a very good level on the latest generation JVC, this year some progress has been made with a slightly larger color space obtained thanks to an internal filter and a dynamic iris now operational in HDR ."
First I've seen of any mention of a slightly larger color space obtained by an internal filter!

"JVC also announces that HDMI sync has been improved and lag input has been further reduced. The manufacturer also highlights that the integrated 18Gb / s HDMI chipset supports color resolutions up to 4: 4: 4: 4: 4 or 36bit even at 50Hz and 60Hz. This is a distinct advantage in 4K compared to Sony, which is limited to 13.5 Gb / s."

"A day in the life of Billy Lynn, ultra HD HFR 60fps is read without problem by the JVC with its 18Gbps HDMI chipset ."

99% Final Rating!

Looks like a really good review of a golden sample! I wonder if I could buy it from him!

Now, Dylan, it's your turn to acquire a RS440 to evaluate!  

[Dylan Seeger]

Now, Dylan, it's your turn to acquire a RS440 to evaluate!

I'm anxious to see eshift5 in person but in the mean time something extremely similar is coming soon. Stay tuned!

[darinp]

Kraine has posted his review of the DLA-X5900 (DLA-RS440) here: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.projection-homecinema.fr%2F&sandbox=1.

Looks to me like these guys still need to figure out basic physics given this:

"The measurement of the contrast of a projector is very difficult in the case where the screen is taken into account. The role played by the environment is very important (amount of light reflected by the walls)."

which they seem to think applies to on/off CR. I don't put much faith at all in any review of a JVC projector that gets less than 7k:1 native on/off CR and especially less than 7k:1 dynamic on/off CR (in Auto1).

JVC engineers the capability for very higher on/off CR into these projectors and then some people set them up to ruin that.

Just noticed that this is a Sony thread. Anybody know if DIRECTV has 4K sports in 60p and whether that would have banding with the 285 or 385?

--Darin

[TWISM]

Looks to me like these guys still need to figure out basic physics given this:

"The measurement of the contrast of a projector is very difficult in the case where the screen is taken into account. The role played by the environment is very important (amount of light reflected by the walls)."

which they seem to think applies to on/off CR. I don't put much faith at all in any review of a JVC projector that gets less than 7k:1 native on/off CR and especially less than 7k:1 dynamic on/off CR (in Auto1).

JVC engineers the capability for very higher on/off CR into these projectors and then some people set them up to ruin that.

Just noticed that this is a Sony thread. Anybody know if DIRECTV has 4K sports in 60p and whether that would have banding with the 285 or 385?

--Darin

It should only be with 4K 60 with HDR.

I watched a college game this weekend on Dish Network and they had it in 4K. No banding on a 385.

[AVSMike]

Looks to me like these guys still need to figure out basic physics given this:

"The measurement of the contrast of a projector is very difficult in the case where the screen is taken into account. The role played by the environment is very important (amount of light reflected by the walls)."

which they seem to think applies to on/off CR. I don't put much faith at all in any review of a JVC projector that gets less than 7k:1 native on/off CR and especially less than 7k:1 dynamic on/off CR (in Auto1).

JVC engineers the capability for very higher on/off CR into these projectors and then some people set them up to ruin that.

Just noticed that this is a Sony thread. Anybody know if DIRECTV has 4K sports in 60p and whether that would have banding with the 285 or 385?

--Darin

Also we might ask Kraine, what filter he is talking about? The RS440 does not have a filter to drop in the light path.

No banding with 4K 60P source, unless it also has HDR.

[Andreas21]

I see Kraine still does not know how to measure contrast, no JVC measures this low. 4000:1 on off and 16000:1 with the DI is simply ridiculous. I have measured many many JVC X5000/5500 and RS400/420, but none of the 5900/440 yet. And all of the ones I have measured around 15-20000:1 on off with the manual iris set to 0 and 35-40000:1 with it set to -15 this is of corse dependent on zoom. With the DI on and isis set to 0 they measure around 150000:1. This is with at least 20 different units and I highly doubt the 5900 measures worse than the older models.

But this has been the case with Kraine always and he does not learn from his mistakes and still does this in the wrong way, I guess he does not know the right way to calibrate these JVC´s either. What is a little frightening is that he is a respected member of this community in France.

[Dylan Seeger]

Has he mentioned how he's measuring contrast? Based on the numbers I would guess he's measuring from the screen using a colorimeter. He should get a proper lux meter and measure from the lens very close to it.

[Andreas21]

Has he mentioned how he's measuring contrast? Based on the numbers I would guess he's measuring from the screen using a colorimeter. He should get a proper lux meter and measure from the lens very close to it.

It depends on the colorimeter, a Klein K10A is capable of measuring the contrast of a JVC even from the screen.

What I do when I want to be really accurate (this is because Calman has some issues with black readings and when they get really low as with a JVC it can give you big variations)  I turn my K10A towards the lens and use the diffusor, the K10A is much more accurate than any lux meter you can buy for a normal amount of money. I also use a lux meter sometimes, but mostly my K10A.

If you use a C6 colorimeter or something like it you will get contrast numbers of millions:1 on a JVC.

[Dylan Seeger]

It depends on the colorimeter, a Klein K10A is capable of measuring the contrast of a JVC even from the screen.

What I do when I want to be really accurate (this is because Calman has some issues with black readings and when they get really low as with a JVC it can give you big variations)  I turn my K10A towards the lens and use the diffusor, the K10A is much more accurate than any lux meter you can buy for a normal amount of money. I also use a lux meter sometimes, but mostly my K10A.

If you use a C6 colorimeter or something like it you will get contrast numbers of millions:1 on a JVC.

I seriously doubt he's using a K10A. I'm using an X-Rite i1Display Pro (EODIS3) colorimeter and I find that my Minolta CL-200 is way more accurate for contrast readings. If I remember correctly the C6 has the exact same hardware as my X-Rite, just rebranded for Spectracal and calibrated by far more accurate equipment.

[Andreas21]

X-Rite i1Display Pro is not even close to sensitive enough to read black on a JVC projector, and yes the C6 is a X-Rite with another look.

[Dylan Seeger]

I was reading that people having figured out how to use Arve's tool with these Sony 4K units. As I noted in my shootout, the 285/385ES doesn't look all that great with HDR out of the box, despite what many people on the other forum were saying (I assume they don't know what HDR is supposed to look like or have no way to measure). It was difficult to get better performance with the regular menu controls. It's a bit  funny to see Sony users using something made for JVC projectors to fix an issue.

[AVSCraig]

I was reading that people having figured out how to use Arve's tool with these Sony 4K units. As I noted in my shootout, the 285/385ES doesn't look all that great with HDR out of the box, despite what many people on the other forum were saying (I assume they don't know what HDR is supposed to look like or have no way to measure). It was difficult to get better performance with the regular menu controls. It's a bit  funny to see Sony users using something made for JVC projectors to fix an issue.

Whatever works. I did find that interesting. Everybody wants better HDR !