Sony VPL-VW285ES/385ES Thread

[stanger89]

Basically what I'm trying to say here is that Sony needs a massive overhaul to it's 4K SXRD platform that spans from it's video processing solution, to I/O and all the way down the SXRD panel level if it wants to compete seriously from here on out. There are too many bottlenecks and limitations with the way things currently stand.

It was really kind of disappointing, and surprising that the VW5000 wasn't that major overhaul.  The RS4500 somewhat was for JVC.

[AVSMike]

Is it possible that the Sony 385 will be able to display 4k 60Hz HDR without banding?  I am one of those that intends to do quite a bit of gaming in all its 4k 60Hz HDR Atmos/DTS:X glory and am still on the fence about shelling out the cash for something I feel is hamstrung.

It should, since it can do 13.5Gbps, but no guarantee that Sony will fix it, but I think they will.

[Dylan Seeger]

It should, since it can do 13.5Gbps, but no guarantee that Sony will fix it, but I think they will.

The HDMI port has the capability to accept it, sure, but who knows where else bottlenecks or processing power restrictions lie inside the projector past the HDMI ports. Maybe Sony can find a workaround or fix. We'll see.

[Dylan Seeger]

It was really kind of disappointing, and surprising that the VW5000 wasn't that major overhaul.  The RS4500 somewhat was for JVC.

I was in contact with a few 5000ES owners who were disappointed with the 5000ES due to the posterization and mild banding that I've shown in close up shots. They didn't want to post publicly after seeing how much flak I received when trying to talk about it. Like I tried to point out in my comparison to the RS400, they also thought these issues wipe away a layer of fine detail. But these guys were essentially forced to keep the 5000ES because they had massive screens. There really isn't anything else out there that has the same performance metrics that the 5000ES has so they're fine with some resolution loss to gain the brightness and contrast performance it has.

Andreas mentioned earlier he sees the same issues on the 885ES. I'm really hoping we see Sony come out with a MKII .74" SXRD panel to get rid of these problems. I think JVCs 4K DiLA panels are going to blow the Sony's out of the water once we see some native 4K competition at the price points these current SXRD units are at. Hopefully next year! As I said in my comparison, there's nothing wrong with these SXRD units, but I don't think the reason you should be buying one is because it's native 4K. These issues take away some of the potential resolution increases it could have if these issues weren't present over eshift. Buy it if you like better motion, better ANSI contrast and if you like a more analog looking image.

[stanger89]

I was in contact with a few 5000ES owners who were disappointed with the 5000ES due to the posterization and mild banding that I've shown in close up shots. They didn't want to post publicly after seeing how much flak I received when trying to talk about it. Like I tried to point out in my comparison to the RS400, they also thought these issues wipe away a layer of fine detail. But these guys were essentially forced to keep the 5000ES because they had massive screens. There really isn't anything else out there that has the same performance metrics that the 5000ES has so they're fine with some resolution loss to gain the brightness and contrast performance it has.

Yup, just like the old days with the "Big Iron" DLPs, they had worse contrast than their smaller HT siblings but the folks with huge screens needed the light only the big guns had.  As we know, there's just no replacement for lumens.

Andreas mentioned earlier he sees the same issues on the 885ES. I'm really hoping we see Sony come out with a MKII .74" SXRD panel to get rid of these problems. I think JVCs 4K DiLA panels are going to blow the Sony's out of the water once we see some native 4K competition at the price points these current SXRD units are at.

Yeah, I hope so.  Competition is always good.

[Andreas21]

I calibrated a VW260 today and these new 4K models from Sony are waaay off out of the box now, I talked to a fellow calibrator and he has calibrated many of these and tells me the same thing. The grayscale is way off and it really needs a big correction via the Sony Pro Calibration tool to come close to the standards. The owner only uses it for SDR so I did not do a HDR calibration on it, and I was not able to check HDR out as he had no UHD player.

I was able to calibrate it to reference results (all Delta E under 1) after big adjustments in the Pro software. It looked good and it ended up at 72 nits (not close to HDR looking good anyway) in high lamp with the contrast at 95 on a 120" Dreamscreen V6 AT screen. It looked good, but as you all know it has it´s problems, and this unit was no exception.

[AVSMike]

How do you like the DreamScreen V6? I think it is a great AT screen fabric.

[Andreas21]

How do you like the DreamScreen V6? I think it is a great AT screen fabric.

I think it is quite good, but I am not going to go the AT screen way in the near future.

[AVSMike]

I think it is quite good, but I am not going to go the AT screen way in the near future.

I plan on changing my fabric out for V6. Just have to get motivated to do so.

[Madfloyd]

Dylan, thanks for your review - it was very well written and looks like a lot of work went into it.

Can you perhaps expand on two comparison items?

1) the more analog presentation of the Sony
    what makes it look more analog - the ANSI performance?

2) better motion on the Sony
    Is this visible in a moving object within a static scene, judder during camera pans, or both?

Thanks again.

[Dylan Seeger]

Dylan, thanks for your review - it was very well written and looks like a lot of work went into it.

Can you perhaps expand on two comparison items?

1) the more analog presentation of the Sony
    what makes it look more analog - the ANSI performance?

2) better motion on the Sony
    Is this visible in a moving object within a static scene, judder during camera pans, or both?

Thanks again.

With regards to the more analog looking image on the Sony, this is one of the more difficult qualities that the Sony possesses over the JVC to put into words. I don't think this has to do with ANSI contrast. The image on screen simply looks a little less "harsh". I don't really know how else to describe it. I would say a good analogy would be a CRT display vs LCD display, though not as extreme. There is just a very slight amount more digital look to the JVC. It's not much more, but if you compare the two images next to one another it's something you can see. The Sony's image has this analog softness where the JVC looks a bit more lively and punchy. Some people will read this and think I mean that the JVC looks noiser or has flicker or something along those lines. I don't mean lively in that sense. Simply put, the Sony just looks a little more laid back.

With regards to motion the Sony has a small amount less blur when a camera pans. Neither are DLP or Plasma good due to both projectors being LCD-based, but the Sony is a little better. This is more than likely due to the SXRD panels having a faster G2G response time than the JVCs DiLA panels. The difference is not large and I don't think most people would be upset with the JVC's native motion handling, but for the purposes of comparison it should be noted the Sony 4Ks do a slightly better job. Judder is essentially the same between the two projectors. Both will render 24p, 25p 30p or 60p cadence properly. If there is judder in the source (and a lot of movies and TV shows shot at 24p do have judder in the source) both projectors will show it. If you don't like source judder, you'll want to enable creative frame interpolation on either projector.

[rob-houston]

Interesting going to VW285ES(260) reviews at Kraine's (ww.projection-homecinema.fr) and hdtvpolska.com and then reading what they have to say about the JVC4x0(5500). Looks to me the only reason to buy the Sony is that it's 4k.

I got a HW45es in December as an interim projector. I'm happy with it. It does pretty well in my almost all black family room.

Going to be interesting to see how these websites review the new 440 with the E-shift5.

Hope seegs gets one to review. I value his opinion.

[DavidHir]

I just got my RS440 in yesterday thanks to Mike.  Very impressed with the unit overall.  I had been using the X500/RS4910 with the Linker + UB900 for UHD BD.  It's a big step up - and eshift5 is really nice.

[Dylan Seeger]

My RS400 used to compare against the 285ES was a used unit recently sent in to Mendtronix. It needed a new power supply and main board. I don't think that Mendtronix puts these units through a calibration before they leave after a mainboard swap. I could tell it was quite a bit off color/greyscale-wise, but up until the last week, I simply did not have the time to put in a proper calibration. I took some measurements last night to see what I was up against:

Sony VPL-VW285ES/385ES Thread

I have some free time this weekend. Gonna tackle the calibration tonight hopefully.

[AVSMike]

I just got my RS440 in yesterday thanks to Mike.  Very impressed with the unit overall.  I had been using the X500/RS4910 with the Linker + UB900 for UHD BD.  It's a big step up - and eshift5 is really nice.

More likely a 420, but that will be very close to the same.