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Kaleidescape

SRW1000

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Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2022, 09:19:09 PM »
I was very tempted to get into K-scape recently, but for me, the main thing that held me back (after overcoming the cost, that is) was that I can only play Kaleidescape-purchased movies with a K-scape player. If K-scape had a Movies Anywhere type of relationship, I would have bought into K-scape. Often times, I'd get a movie to watch in my Home Theater, but other family members might not want to watch it until later, and want the flexibility to watch the movie outside the home theater (such as in a TV in another room in the house or even in an iPad). I like to keep TV's outside the Home Theater simple. TVs outside the Home Theater only have one source - an Apple TV, and I'm not interested, nor would I benefit from, getting a Kaleidescape player for TVs outside the Home Theater. K-scape has a FAQ that says a Movies Anywhere deal is being looked into, but nothing has changed in a while.

I use Plex for playing movies, and I've ripped all my physical media to a NAS. Works great. Plex works great (for folks who like a DIY approach). I usually know far ahead of time what movies I want, so I have time to purchase the disc and rip it. However, one main advantage of Kaleidescape for me would be those times when you don't decide what to watch until you're sitting in your Home Theater browsing what movie to watch. No need to go out and buy the movie and rip it to the NAS. Just wait 10 to 15 minutes to download the movie! Also, these days, movies are coming out for streaming and Kaleidescape a few weeks before the physical media becomes available. This usually isn't an issue for me since I have a backlog of movies to watch, but occasionally, it's hard to wait for the physical media to come out when a movie is already available online for streaming (or K-scape). For example, although I saw Top Gun Maverick in a theater, other family members missed it and wanted to watch it once it became available for streaming. Then, it would have been good to have K-scape (although I gotta say, iTunes streaming looks pretty good).

I'm somewhat of a movie collector, although it's hard to amass such a large K-scape collection given the (seemingly exponential) price increases as their server's capacities increase. One thing I saw online before (and I'm not sure if it's still true today), is: if you purchased a movie, but it's not in your local Kaleidescape server, the movie won't show up in the K-scape movie wall. I can see having a lot more K-scape movies that I've purchased but not downloaded (or downloaded in the past, but have since been removed due to capacity constraints). If so, I want to see all movies that I've purchased from K-scape, whether or not they're all available locally in the K-scape player (but maybe have some small icon to indicate that a movie needs to be downloaded). Most movies I only want to see once, which would argue for not having more capacity than is necessary. But it's good to be able to see all movies that have been purchased, whether or not a movie has been downloaded. It's especially useful for guests.
Good point about not having any portability on the movies.

David does mention his annoyance at only being able to see movies on the server, rather than all of the movies owned as well.  That seems like something that they could easily fixed.
My Room:  26’-1” X 17’-4” X 10’
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See Youthman's actual tour of my room here: https://youtu.be/PHEaG2xKVhg

Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2022, 10:12:47 PM »
I'm obviously not the target demographic for this and it's made for people with more money than sense IMO. I get PO'd at the upcharge Apple applies for storage... but holy CRAP - to go from a 6 TB server (the base model per the review) to the reviewed 48 TB server is an extra $13K?! You could build your own NAS with enterprise grade drives (Seagate Exos) with at least that much storage plus easy expansion room for well under $2500. (Synology DS-1821+ 8 bay NAS + 5 x 12TB HDs in Raid 5 or Synology's SHR = about $2200 currently.)

Yeah, the interface is nice and there's some convenience. But even at the price you're giving up some things, for example the mentioned portability of having both the disk and the ripped copy on the NAS.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2022, 10:15:01 PM by Paul Heroy »

Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2022, 08:08:26 AM »
Well, buying into K-scape is buying into its ecosystem, so it's not really fair to compare its cost to off-the-shelf NAS hardware cost. It's the content and convenience that matters. But, of course the contrast in its price compared to off the shelf hardware price is interesting, especially when the differentiator amongst their Terra servers is capacity. 

Also, when figuring out NAS hardware costs, one needs to double the price to account for backup (RAID is isn't a backup). I have a Synology DS1812+ and a DS1813+ and expansion units and they've been going strong for 10+ years. A backup is important since it's too painful to have to re-rip content from physical media (unlike K-scape, where you can just re-download the content). Of course it's still relatively cheap even with backup hardware. 


bmoney

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Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2022, 12:23:49 PM »
thats why you dont use synology as a NAS.  unRaid has a parity system built in. so all you have to do is replace the failed drive and the parity disc will rebuild the failed drive for you.  it works extremely well.  And Emby or Plex is just as sleek as K-scape.  
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Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2022, 12:47:03 PM »
thats why you dont use synology as a NAS.  unRaid has a parity system built in. so all you have to do is replace the failed drive and the parity disc will rebuild the failed drive for you.  it works extremely well.  And Emby or Plex is just as sleek as K-scape. 
I configured my Synology NAS with parity (RAID). So, if a drive goes bad, it just needs to be replaced. No data lost. But if there's a catastrophe (like human errors such as accidentally deleting a folder of movies), then a backup is good to have.

The lower capacity K-scape servers don't have redundancy, so the drive is just replaced when a disc goes bad (assuming it's under warranty). But at least it's easy enough to re-download the data. I would hope that the higher capacity K-scape servers have redundant drives. It's not clear to me what happens if the K-scape is no longer under warranty, since technically you can't just replace the drives yourself (although I haven't looked into this in detail in case there's ways to do so).

Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2022, 04:38:09 PM »
David mentioned diminishing returns being a thing for high end A/V prices, and to an extent I get that. Small volumes, hand made parts, tweaking parts throughout a design with hours and hours of work, testing, listening etc. That costs some amount of time, effort, materials, thus money. But we're just talking about adding more of a commodity here - storage - which requires zero of that. Zero. This just looks like extreme price gouging to me, unless the base model is extremely underpriced for some reason just to get users into the system. 

Fair point about backups, I assume with Kscape you don't need that since you've got the ability to re-download titles if something happens, with their store essentially being the backup. As others mentioned I've had my Synology NAS lose a single drive and just replaced it quickly with no data loss. Took a day or so to rebuild. The backup is a less expensive device, not a full NAS just a 4 bay drive unit with RAID support. Don't need a full NAS OS for that.

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Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2022, 06:55:34 AM »
I didn’t know synology could be backed up. Cool 

Yeah kscape I see zero value in it tbh. I guess if I had FU money 
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Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2022, 01:35:37 AM »
Review is up:  A Marriage Made in Movie Heaven | Sound & Vision (soundandvision.com)

Nice write up, and it does really look like a dream system, too bad it's priced beyond the budget for so many of us.  At its cheapest configuration, the hardware cost is equal to roughly 450 4K BDs priced at $20 each. 

It would be interesting to know if the audio of any of the movies will be improved over their disc counterparts.  I remember reading at one point that they do improve the picture for some titles, but the audio track remains the same.

The other concern I'd have is ownership rights.  Should the company go under, would you still have access to the content you purchased?  Will everything on the server be accessible, or at some point would need to do some kind of authorization check to allow playback?  And I's assume that you would also need to download all of those titles before the company shut down.  And after that, what if their NAS storage fails, are the drives replaceable?

All in all, if one can afford it, this would be the system to own, but that risk/reward gambit is a bit on the high side.  Maybe someday they can scale the product to be more affordable for the masses.  Until then there's always disc ripping, NAS storage, and a Sheild or other playback device for the rest of us.

Scott
Scott,

My understanding is once you buy the movie, it's yours and if K-Scape goes under, it will stay on your hard drive and you can still play it. The one problem is if you delete a title, it's gone if they are not in business. Furthermore, the hardware won't last forever and at some point, it will fail. Then again, how many movies were bought on VHS, then DVD, then HD DVD/Blu-ray, and now 4K Blu-ray? I guess my point is, it isn't like we haven't bought movies more than once before because something "new and better" always comes along at some point. 

The cost of the system is very expensive--there's no getting around that, but it's catering to a high-end customer and compared to a lot of things out there (wine, luxury cars, luxury appliances, etc.), you could make the case it isn't that expensive by comparison. I was in Phoenix this week and went into a high-end lighting/appliance store...they had bath tubs that were $10K and up---seriously--saw one for over $25K. The shop was in North Scottsdale and across the street was a Tesla dealer and across the other street was a McClaren dealership--I suspect that many of their customers own K-scape systems...just sayin'!
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Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2022, 01:42:26 AM »
The K-scape system isn't for everyone. I've tried the rip to MKV route and it wasn't for me personally. Took too much time to do and maybe I would have gotten better at it the more I did it (like anything), but it just wasn't for me. I have a Synology server that is mainly used to house pictures and music, although now with Amazon streaming at under $100 per year for their high quality stream, I took my Squeezebox out of my rack--had no use for it anymore. I just cast the music to my Shield Pro and away I go.

I get that this is out of many people's price range, but so are a lot of projectors/screens/amps etc. When people see my system they marvel at it, but when they hear what the "retail" value of the system is they think I'm batshit crazy to pay that much "just to watch movies." Then again, they always want to watch them at my house :D
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AVSMike

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Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2022, 10:53:45 AM »
Well, if our kid wasn't starting her first semester of Pharmacy school.........nah, not even then.

Maybe she will buy her old man one when she graduates. ;)
I can relate. Daughter graduated from Pharmacy school. Pharmacy school is the same cost as medical school. Son currently getting Masters in Aerospace. One more semester and I am done paying for college. :)
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Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2022, 11:28:23 AM »
I can relate. Daughter graduated from Pharmacy school. Pharmacy school is the same cost as medical school. Son currently getting Masters in Aerospace. One more semester and I am done paying for college. :)
Making the last tuition payment ranks up there with paying off my mortgage as far as great feelings go. I love the saying....Money not going out is the same as money coming in! Enjoy the much earned raise Mike!
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SRW1000

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Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2023, 01:10:51 PM »
For anyone interested in Kaleidescape, Youthman will be hosting a live stream tonight with André Floyd about their updated disc to digital program and other software updates.

His streams are a good way for viewer to connect directly with manufacturers, so if you have any questions, there's a good chance that they'll get answered.

Here's a link to the upcoming show: 

I already have a couple of questions in mind, so I'm looking forward to it even if the hardware is out of my price range at this point. There's no doubt it is the best playback system available to consumers, though.

Scott
My Room:  26’-1” X 17’-4” X 10’
Equipment:  Monolith HTP-1 feeding X7 and X9 amps, JVC RS3100, Elite Screens 135"", JBL Studio 590 for L, C, R, W, R, 580s for sides and four SCS8 for tops, JTR Captivator 1400 x 4, Panny DP-UB420K, Toshiba HD-A35. Nvidia Shield, Sonos Connect, MX-780 remote

See Youthman's actual tour of my room here: https://youtu.be/PHEaG2xKVhg

Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2023, 03:40:24 PM »
I have an article forthcoming on the Disc-to-Digital program. I've downloaded about 20 titles thus far (haven't counted) and it's worked extremely well. Only downside is Disney-owned conversions are a rip-off versus the other studios. Also, music concerts are a lot more expensive than they should be. 
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Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2023, 03:45:31 PM »
I just connected my drive today. Works great! Yeah, Disney's Black Panther Wakanda Forever discount was minimal ($3 and change). But other studios seem like they  have better discounts from what I've heard. 

Re: Kaleidescape
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2023, 04:17:43 PM »
I just connected my drive today. Works great! Yeah, Disney's Black Panther Wakanda Forever discount was minimal ($3 and change). But other studios seem like they  have better discounts from what I've heard.
I noticed the same thing...not worth it IMO (I'll get off my a$$ and put a disc in the player for $21 per movie). Anything under $5 is worth it though. I have to pause now since I'm at my bandwidth cap from Xfinity (got a nastygram email warning me I was near my limit :D). 
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