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UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?

flyinion

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UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« on: July 09, 2020, 12:02:49 AM »
Hey guys looking for recommendations for a Dolby Vision capable UHD player, hopefully around 250-300 max.  My X800 is the original version that didn't do Dolby Vision (didn't understand about the formats at the time and didn't have a 4K TV 2 years ago when I bought it).  I was looking at the X700 or maybe the LG UBK90 but it seems like the X700 you have to toggle Dolby Vision on and off which seems like a bad call because then I have to try to figure out if the disc has it or not.  The UBK90 seemed good but I read about an issue which may or may not have been a firmware bug (vs intended behavior) where you had to toggle between 60 and 24p manually.  
LG 65" CX OLED | Denon AVR-X4500H | Panasonic UB820 | Chane A2.4 L/C/R | Chane A1.4 SR | SVS Elevation Atmos/height | SVS PB-2000 | Logitech Harmony 950 | Arris MX011ANM (Xfinity X1) | Apple TV 4K

flyinion

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Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2020, 11:59:25 AM »
Well, I've been poking around and it seems neither of those are really great choices between the Sony needing DV manually toggled, and the LG still having a 60/24p manual toggle.  Apparently I should be targeting the Panasonic 820.  Kind of a shame, a local Best Buy has an open box on sale for like 299 (normal retail is 499, current new price is 399) but I blew all my money on the TV this month so it will have to wait.  Not even sure it's worth it just to get Dolby Vision.  Couldn't see a ton of difference in some scenes of Infinity War testing HDR10 on my X800 with the TV's dynamic tone mapping turned on (LG's version of what Dolby Vision does) and the DV stream from Disney+ of the same scenes.
LG 65" CX OLED | Denon AVR-X4500H | Panasonic UB820 | Chane A2.4 L/C/R | Chane A1.4 SR | SVS Elevation Atmos/height | SVS PB-2000 | Logitech Harmony 950 | Arris MX011ANM (Xfinity X1) | Apple TV 4K

flyinion

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Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2020, 10:57:11 AM »
Did some more reading especially on the tech differences between Dolby Vision and HDR10 modes especially the bit depth, nit mastering, and amount of colors they're capable of displaying.  Decided I do want to get a DV capable player, so it's looking like it will be the 820.  Guess I should have spent the extra 150 for an Oppo 203 back at the time instead of getting the x800 1st gen oh well.  I get to pay for it now.
LG 65" CX OLED | Denon AVR-X4500H | Panasonic UB820 | Chane A2.4 L/C/R | Chane A1.4 SR | SVS Elevation Atmos/height | SVS PB-2000 | Logitech Harmony 950 | Arris MX011ANM (Xfinity X1) | Apple TV 4K

Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2020, 11:33:10 AM »
Did some more reading especially on the tech differences between Dolby Vision and HDR10 modes especially the bit depth, nit mastering, and amount of colors they're capable of displaying.  Decided I do want to get a DV capable player, so it's looking like it will be the 820.  Guess I should have spent the extra 150 for an Oppo 203 back at the time instead of getting the x800 1st gen oh well.  I get to pay for it now.
I sold my Oppo to get the 820 because of the tone mapping...I regret my decision. The 820 isn't a bad player, but it doesn't have the built quality of the Oppo. I'd be concerned about long-term support from Oppo though...at some point, firmware updates will no longer come. Then again, the Panasonic has needed a firmware update for a while due to some minor disc issues, but they don't seem to be interested. 
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Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2020, 11:40:58 AM »
I did the same - sold my Oppo 203 for $400 more than I paid after Oppo killed their BD players, and got the 820 due to the tone mapping. That has been really helpful for my projection setup, until I get a projector with it built in.

The 820 is not built the way you'd like a $500 disk player to be and I'm also disappointed in the lack of features compared to the Oppo, and the ergonomics - the eject/load button being on top in particular. But that one feature - for projectors - makes up for a LOT. For the OP it doesn't matter though b/c he's using a TV.

You have to go into the $1k range now to get the build quality and close to the features of the Oppo. The Pioneer UDP-LX500 seems to be the closest.

flyinion

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Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2020, 11:55:15 AM »
I did the same - sold my Oppo 203 for $400 more than I paid after Oppo killed their BD players, and got the 820 due to the tone mapping. That has been really helpful for my projection setup, until I get a projector with it built in.

The 820 is not built the way you'd like a $500 disk player to be and I'm also disappointed in the lack of features compared to the Oppo, and the ergonomics - the eject/load button being on top in particular. But that one feature - for projectors - makes up for a LOT. For the OP it doesn't matter though b/c he's using a TV.

You have to go into the $1k range now to get the build quality and close to the features of the Oppo. The Pioneer UDP-LX500 seems to be the closest.
Well, hopefully the 820 will last long enough for me to benefit from the tone mapping via getting a projector.  We don't plan to live in this house forever and I definitely want to be able to add a projector into the mix in the next house.  The current house just doesn't really work for something like that.
LG 65" CX OLED | Denon AVR-X4500H | Panasonic UB820 | Chane A2.4 L/C/R | Chane A1.4 SR | SVS Elevation Atmos/height | SVS PB-2000 | Logitech Harmony 950 | Arris MX011ANM (Xfinity X1) | Apple TV 4K

flyinion

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Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2020, 11:59:10 AM »
I sold my Oppo to get the 820 because of the tone mapping...I regret my decision. The 820 isn't a bad player, but it doesn't have the built quality of the Oppo. I'd be concerned about long-term support from Oppo though...at some point, firmware updates will no longer come. Then again, the Panasonic has needed a firmware update for a while due to some minor disc issues, but they don't seem to be interested.

Yeah it's too bad Sony didn't allow the X700/x800m2 to auto switch dolby vision.  The X800 is actually built pretty well other than the buttons being a bit flimsy.  The overall box is solid.
LG 65" CX OLED | Denon AVR-X4500H | Panasonic UB820 | Chane A2.4 L/C/R | Chane A1.4 SR | SVS Elevation Atmos/height | SVS PB-2000 | Logitech Harmony 950 | Arris MX011ANM (Xfinity X1) | Apple TV 4K

Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2020, 12:07:30 PM »
I sold my Oppo to get the 820 because of the tone mapping...I regret my decision. The 820 isn't a bad player, but it doesn't have the built quality of the Oppo. I'd be concerned about long-term support from Oppo though...at some point, firmware updates will no longer come. Then again, the Panasonic has needed a firmware update for a while due to some minor disc issues, but they don't seem to be interested.
I think Oppo said they would offer support on the players for 7 years, that would leave a little under 6 years of support available. Not a forever solution by any means but still offers a decent bit of coverage. 

Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2020, 12:18:32 PM »
Well, hopefully the 820 will last long enough for me to benefit from the tone mapping via getting a projector.  We don't plan to live in this house forever and I definitely want to be able to add a projector into the mix in the next house.  The current house just doesn't really work for something like that.
Might depend on the budget you set for a projector. More projectors now have some kind of TM built in and that's really where you want it so that it works with all sources, but I'm not sure what the "entry level" for that is in current projectors. (Obviously Craig & Mike can speak to that more.)

I end up watching a lot of movies on my AppleTV from a streaming source these days* and sometimes it's noticeably an issue without TM. I have a JVC RS-500 which is 3 generations behind the current 4k lineup. Won't have budget to upgrade for a while yet so the 820 helps some.

*I was buying a fair number of 4K BDs but ran out of space so I need to get rid of some, but as streaming quality has increased significantly my desire to own all but the most cherished movies in physical form has waned.

AVSCraig

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Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2020, 12:19:02 PM »
I think Oppo said they would offer support on the players for 7 years, that would leave a little under 6 years of support available. Not a forever solution by any means but still offers a decent bit of coverage.

It's not like Oppo is out of business, seeing as they are one of the largest cell phone makers in the world. 
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flyinion

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Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2020, 02:03:30 PM »
Might depend on the budget you set for a projector. More projectors now have some kind of TM built in and that's really where you want it so that it works with all sources, but I'm not sure what the "entry level" for that is in current projectors. (Obviously Craig & Mike can speak to that more.)

I end up watching a lot of movies on my AppleTV from a streaming source these days* and sometimes it's noticeably an issue without TM. I have a JVC RS-500 which is 3 generations behind the current 4k lineup. Won't have budget to upgrade for a while yet so the 820 helps some.

*I was buying a fair number of 4K BDs but ran out of space so I need to get rid of some, but as streaming quality has increased significantly my desire to own all but the most cherished movies in physical form has waned.
Yeah I do stream a lot, but some movies it's totally worth it.  Stuff like the hi res audio codecs just can't be matched by streaming.  Or maybe  it could, but they chop off the sound when encoding them for their servers.  Just one of many examples, Cloverfield Paradox.  Sounds really good on bass in streaming through Netflix in Atmos.  The lossless Atmos on the blu-ray is on another level though.
LG 65" CX OLED | Denon AVR-X4500H | Panasonic UB820 | Chane A2.4 L/C/R | Chane A1.4 SR | SVS Elevation Atmos/height | SVS PB-2000 | Logitech Harmony 950 | Arris MX011ANM (Xfinity X1) | Apple TV 4K

Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2020, 04:06:42 PM »
Might depend on the budget you set for a projector. More projectors now have some kind of TM built in and that's really where you want it so that it works with all sources, but I'm not sure what the "entry level" for that is in current projectors. (Obviously Craig & Mike can speak to that more.)

I end up watching a lot of movies on my AppleTV from a streaming source these days* and sometimes it's noticeably an issue without TM. I have a JVC RS-500 which is 3 generations behind the current 4k lineup. Won't have budget to upgrade for a while yet so the 820 helps some.

*I was buying a fair number of 4K BDs but ran out of space so I need to get rid of some, but as streaming quality has increased significantly my desire to own all but the most cherished movies in physical form has waned.
The biggest drop off for me with streaming is the audio quality....whenever I do direct A-B comparisons for people they always pick out the streaming due to the drop off in audio depth. Videophiles can see a difference but it has gotten a lot harder over the years, that's for sure. 
Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer
Sound & Vision Magazine

flyinion

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Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2020, 01:53:14 PM »
The biggest drop off for me with streaming is the audio quality....whenever I do direct A-B comparisons for people they always pick out the streaming due to the drop off in audio depth. Videophiles can see a difference but it has gotten a lot harder over the years, that's for sure.
Yeah I have a hard time picking out the video differences, but the audio can be really obvious as in my Cloverfield Paradox example above.  I also watched the Episode IV disc from the Star Wars 4K box set the other night and compared to the 4K/Atmos streaming version on Disney+ you could hear the difference there as well.  Especially some of the bass in the early scenes boarding the vessel.  Streaming was a more hollow/boomy sound and didn't reach as low.  Though I just remembered I do run with Audyssey's Dynamic EQ on for most of my inputs except discs with a -10 offset.  However, while that might account for some of the boomy bass, if the really low end frequencies were there those would have been boosted as well.  That wasn't the case so they were just missing.  On that old of a track even with the remixing, it was subtle but if you've listened to both versions it's definitely obvious.
LG 65" CX OLED | Denon AVR-X4500H | Panasonic UB820 | Chane A2.4 L/C/R | Chane A1.4 SR | SVS Elevation Atmos/height | SVS PB-2000 | Logitech Harmony 950 | Arris MX011ANM (Xfinity X1) | Apple TV 4K

Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2020, 04:50:07 PM »
Yeah I have a hard time picking out the video differences, but the audio can be really obvious as in my Cloverfield Paradox example above.  I also watched the Episode IV disc from the Star Wars 4K box set the other night and compared to the 4K/Atmos streaming version on Disney+ you could hear the difference there as well.  Especially some of the bass in the early scenes boarding the vessel.  Streaming was a more hollow/boomy sound and didn't reach as low.  Though I just remembered I do run with Audyssey's Dynamic EQ on for most of my inputs except discs with a -10 offset.  However, while that might account for some of the boomy bass, if the really low end frequencies were there those would have been boosted as well.  That wasn't the case so they were just missing.  On that old of a track even with the remixing, it was subtle but if you've listened to both versions it's definitely obvious.
Agreed...if you listen to the streaming version first you'd say..."damn, that sounds pretty good." Then you go to the disc and it's a definite "ah ha" moment (at least for me). For dramas and light comedies, I don't really care, but for action/adventure and musicals, the better audio is definitely missed. 
Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer
Sound & Vision Magazine

flyinion

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Re: UHD player recommendations for Dolby Vision?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2020, 11:01:11 AM »
So now that I'm looking at the ~$500 Panasonic UB-820, I'm wondering if maybe I should just wait and buy an XBox Series X in a few months.  Anyone have any thoughts on that?  I had thought about getting a new console anyway though I have been gaming on PC some of my friends also game on Xbox and are planning to get it.  I know it will support 4k UHD discs and I assume it would support Dolby Vision playback.  Of course it will also probably cost around 500 as well.
LG 65" CX OLED | Denon AVR-X4500H | Panasonic UB820 | Chane A2.4 L/C/R | Chane A1.4 SR | SVS Elevation Atmos/height | SVS PB-2000 | Logitech Harmony 950 | Arris MX011ANM (Xfinity X1) | Apple TV 4K

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