Im not totaly disagreeing that on off is important, but a combination of both would make for a better image overall, small difference maybe, i still apriciate it, Hate most of the rest of what the SONY do.There is a really good reason why i overall prefer the Marquee 9500 CRT projector wich much higher native contrast than any other home cinema projector available on the market today, it just kills any JVC in low level performance, however i still see how the ansi contrast have a impact on brighter scenes, and well aware of its weak parts.It would not really make sense to mount a different lens from the same manufacture, so first ill try find a SONY lens see if it can be custum fitted on the JVC, not that it needs to be perfect, just to satisfy my curiosity, and maybe determine the lens quality, as nobody realy know where the different projectors suffers, it can just as welll be in the mirror and optical blocks in the lamp engine the biggest limitations are, sony could for that matter have the best sharpest lenses, and the worse lamp engine, and JVC the opposite, or whatever way around, all people know is the sum of it all in a factory asembled projector without beeing able to pinpoint where the weak point in the optical path is.Fact is SONY holds significantly better ansi contrast, and JVC significantly better on off contrast, i doubt anyone can dispute that, and it all holds some importance to image quality, if not you should be happy with a 50:1 ansi contrast, my bet is that above 500:1 will be fairly impossible to see, but how cool would it be if it was possible to put a lens on a jvc and get sony ansi contrast, and compare it to a identical stock JVC, i happen to have 2 old JVC X3 units, wich in most regards performs as well as the last generation 1080P models except total lightoutput, and better native panel on off contrast on the old series.I think its sad that some people feel a personal atatchment to thair equipment and need to defend it, i find it helthy to keep a open mind, experiment, also beyond normal contrast and brightness adjustment, the narow mindet mentality on forums these days are kind of limiting the objective aproach, i own JVC SONY and others, and ill not hold back discussing flaws and qualities of different manufactures just so others can feel better about their boy toys, im in this hobby to enjoy both the visual and tecnical aspects, and only by knowing the shortcommings and flaws can i try to work around them and reach a better compromise.
Just because the lens is made by the same manufacturer does not mean its the exact same lens. The Mitsubishi HC9000 (HC5) was able to hit about 450:1 ANSI contrast and uses a lens that would more easily integrate within the JVC projector chassis. I highly doubt you'll be able to fit the Sony lens inside JVC's chassis let alone figure out a way to get the motorized lens controls to work.
Ok forget about calibration reports, and forget about sharpness for a moment.What i understand from MTF is sharpness, but you guys say percived contrast, and when i look at contrast its about how the light plays out on the specifik scene in general not pr pixle sharpness, so i like to understand what MTF really means in your world, as it seems different from what i understand, to me its 2 different image parameters.If you dont think about MTF and sharpness and look more roughly on the RS2000 and RS3000 from a longer distance, do the persived contrast between bright and dark areas of a frame look the same, or do you also percive a difference there.?Here is a few samples of frames to ilustrate what contrast, specifikly ansi contrast is to me, where the sony holds better in the low light parts of the sceen and the JVC visible vashes out the dark area, even that my sony have a slightly lower gamma, 2,3 vs 2,33 on the JVC.
I was not there at that shootout, so I can't comment on if there was a difference, with increased distance. As I said, Kris speculated that it was the MTF, since it could not be ANSI nor a difference in native contrast. Also could see the difference with dynamic iris off on both. Perceived, just like a speaker comparison can fool people if one is played louder. One poster said he used to sell audio gear. Said when comparing speaker A to speaker B, sometimes he would switch from A back to A, but increase the volume a little. Everybody always commented on the louder speaker as being much better. So this is a perceived difference, because there is no actual difference. Same with the contrast we are talking about.
Here is something no Sony and no JVC can do and as it runs a fairly high gamma it will in many cases look more contrasty and dynamic, and just as a note that was measured with around 12fl so calculate the black level on screen. From this overheated discussion where most agree that ansi dont hold much importance ill guess we can all agree that the CRT must be the best projector in the world ;-) And that both SONY and JVC still only manufacture gray plastic toy projectors.
Matched lightoutput at 15fl on screen.
Of course any calibrator could adjust two projectors and select material to favor one projector, but that was not the goal here. If doing that, you would not provide any calibration reports as was done here. If you knew anything about Kris, you would know that he turns off all processing. Maybe it is the language barrier, but you seem to come across as condescending or accusing, like something was not on the up and up with that shootout. Kris does not sell projectors. While the guy that hosted the shootout does sell projectors, here in the US, Sony has higher profit than JVC, so it would not make sense to slant a shootout to a product that you made less money on. Heck the host of the shootout is my compitition and yet I am defending him. I certainly have no reason, hidden agenda to do so. Time to move on from this.
I spoke a little with Didrik as he is one of my best friends and he tells me you use the contrast slider to drop the lightoutput on your JVC, is this true? If it is it is not strange you see what you see as you have killed the projector in doing this, and if it is true you just show your ignorance. I am ok with you thinking and meaning your CRT is the best projector in the world and I also think you have a very personal connection to your CRTs. But to 99.9% of people interested in projection it is a thing of the past. I am sure it shows very dark scenes in a very good way, but not much more than that. And personally I think CRTs is a thing in the past. Enjoy your CRT and try to be a little less insulting, condescending and arrogant in the way you write and you will get a lot more positive comments.
Now that you pick up and sling around words like ignorance insulting and arogant i guess its a way of alowing me to trow a few stones back, and you might explain how the contrast effects the black level gamma and grayscale tracking, if thats not to complicated for you.?
That would explain why most of his measurements are so low. I hope he realizes he can't treat these digital projectors the same as his CRTs. Lowering the Contrast setting simply clips everything above a particular digital level to be the same, lower, brightness level. He should be using the manual iris instead.
That's way too dim. I need a minimum of 18 foot lamberts just for 1080p. CRT's are like Model A's - great back in their day. But yesterday's news. But I'm sure Thomas Edison enjoyed his.
Damn i cant find the iris adjustment on the SONY 270, and the X5900 is at -15 The basic thing the contrast adjustment do is lower lightoutput and make the projector show whiter than white, as long as the gamma still tracks all the way from 0-100% ire there is no loss of information, you can argue that i reduce contrast, as i lower lightoutput and maintain the same black level, anyway its the only way of matching these 2 projectors to a reference level lightoutput, not that i would not prefer a iris or the capability of the iris its simply not a option, and it have absolutely no effect on ansi contrast, and the conclution is the same with both projectors set to 100contrast with 18fl on screen, just that if i wach 18fl for 3 hours ill trow the projector in the bin, poor alcohol on it and set it on fire to never have to use it again.But your more than welcome to ilustrate what im clipping when everything is calibrated and tracks with a specifik contrast setting, on the JVC currently -7
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