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What's The Next "Big" Thing for Consumer Video?

Re: What's The Next "Big" Thing for Consumer Video?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2017, 02:38:49 PM »
Due to the characteristics of sound reproduction there are several aspects that will influence the actual benefit of LED or OLED "tile walls"; one of them being the obvious one in not being AT, but the fact that such a large surface is creating a bunch of acoustical issues in a small room is certainly also relevant. Both challenges can be partially solved, either by increasing the dispersion of the speakers, which is hard to do, and even if it is possible, not optimal for other reasons such as having to toe in, missing out on "audio presented from where the action takes place" and so on. The issue with the large reflective surface might be reduced by adding more acoustical treatments to the room, but will also be very challenging. Other than that, the actual REAL ESTATE of a room is compromised significantly by not using AT fabrics. Might not be that much of a challenge for some US home cinemas, but in Europe - even the "hi-end" home cinemas are seldom much larger than 10-12 x 20-25 ft. (mine, for example, is 12 x 25 ft, and I´m regarded as pretty crazy for spending that much space where I´m from...).

Yeah, it will be interesting to see where it goes.

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Another important aspect is to remember that HT is indeed a small niche and a bunch of us HT folks actually WANT the projector. Perhaps off of sentimental reasons, but be as it may; we´re the people actually spending the money right now and probably at least for the next 10 years or so will still be - and we usually get what we (or; our wallet) want... Might still be a lot of OTHER folks that would want a huge TV, and by all means, I´m sure there is space for the lot of us...

To me projection is a means to an end.  I get that there are a few folks who will "hold out" with projection, but I think the vast majority of HT folks would be just fine giving up projection and its inherent limitations for an emissive technology, assuming those acoustic issues are mitigated.

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As for projection as such, it´s certainly room for improvement. Largest concern is contrast for sure. Light output is solvable, contrast seems much harder. Really too bad Dolby / Christie got a patent on the light blocking chip idea, it´s one of those "duh, why didn´t I think of that....!", but it is indeed a brilliant one as such and should have been figured out a long time ago. Problem is that the projection developers seems to lack the "out-of-the-box" creativity that Dolby seemingly has in abundance... ;) Perhaps we´ll be as lucky as to have Dolby / Christie license out the tech? How about a D-ILA light blocking optical engine layout providing a potentially 30.000 (:1) x 30.000 (:1) = infinite contrast...... ;)

Are you talking about the tandem/stacked DMD system?  Didn't Zeiss use that in their planetarium projectors before Dolby?

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What will be the next big thingie though... Hard one. What would I LIKE to be the next thing; RGB laser, 1.000.000:1, 5000 AL (or more, as long as contrast is sufficient...), razor sharp, properly resolved 4K (much rather than some soft 8K that you´d need a 100k lens to resolve anyhow), silent, DCI +++.... AND of course - combine this with a stellar neutral gain AT screen (wonder which I´m thinking of?? ;)), speakers installed in a custom baffle wall, powered masking, Alcons audio sound system - batcave´ish of course - and I´m in HT heaven.... ;)

I think I could settle for that :D

Re: What's The Next "Big" Thing for Consumer Video?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2017, 05:10:45 PM »
Yeah, I think the next major shift will probably be video walls with stacked panels to get the desired size. But it's going to be a LONG time before these are affordable. At least 10 years out to get down to what an enthusiast like many of us here can afford. By that I mean something under $10,000 for comparable image sizes that we have now with our projection screens.

AT walls will need to be made as well. And I would like to see wall panels specifically made for home theater. I feel a lot of them will probably be made for bright viewing environments which means heavy optical coatings to help with direct sunlight or ambient room light hitting them. This is detrimental to image quality.  If not, I suspect many people will be reverting to chemicals to DIY remove the optical coatings. I see some people do that already with PC monitors.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 05:12:20 PM by Dylan Seeger »
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Re: What's The Next "Big" Thing for Consumer Video?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2017, 07:13:01 PM »
Glasses-free 3D (with UHD resolution) I think will make a big push.  It will probably be bigger in the gaming market though although I'm sure it will be with movies, as well.  Honestly, while I could change my mind, at this point it doesn't interest me but I think we'll see it.

Re: What's The Next "Big" Thing for Consumer Video?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2017, 09:50:54 PM »
Due to the characteristics of sound reproduction there are several aspects that will influence the actual benefit of LED or OLED "tile walls"; one of them being the obvious one in not being AT, but the fact that such a large surface is creating a bunch of acoustical issues in a small room is certainly also relevant. Both challenges can be partially solved, either by increasing the dispersion of the speakers, which is hard to do, and even if it is possible, not optimal for other reasons such as having to toe in, missing out on "audio presented from where the action takes place" and so on. The issue with the large reflective surface might be reduced by adding more acoustical treatments to the room, but will also be very challenging. Other than that, the actual REAL ESTATE of a room is compromised significantly by not using AT fabrics. Might not be that much of a challenge for some US home cinemas, but in Europe - even the "hi-end" home cinemas are seldom much larger than 10-12 x 20-25 ft. (mine, for example, is 12 x 25 ft, and I´m regarded as pretty crazy for spending that much space where I´m from...).

Another important aspect is to remember that HT is indeed a small niche and a bunch of us HT folks actually WANT the projector. Perhaps off of sentimental reasons, but be as it may; we´re the people actually spending the money right now and probably at least for the next 10 years or so will still be - and we usually get what we (or; our wallet) want... Might still be a lot of OTHER folks that would want a huge TV, and by all means, I´m sure there is space for the lot of us...

As for projection as such, it´s certainly room for improvement. Largest concern is contrast for sure. Light output is solvable, contrast seems much harder. Really too bad Dolby / Christie got a patent on the light blocking chip idea, it´s one of those "duh, why didn´t I think of that....!", but it is indeed a brilliant one as such and should have been figured out a long time ago. Problem is that the projection developers seems to lack the "out-of-the-box" creativity that Dolby seemingly has in abundance... ;) Perhaps we´ll be as lucky as to have Dolby / Christie license out the tech? How about a D-ILA light blocking optical engine layout providing a potentially 30.000 (:1) x 30.000 (:1) = infinite contrast...... ;)

What will be the next big thingie though... Hard one. What would I LIKE to be the next thing; RGB laser, 1.000.000:1, 5000 AL (or more, as long as contrast is sufficient...), razor sharp, properly resolved 4K (much rather than some soft 8K that you´d need a 100k lens to resolve anyhow), silent, DCI +++.... AND of course - combine this with a stellar neutral gain AT screen (wonder which I´m thinking of?? ;)), speakers installed in a custom baffle wall, powered masking, Alcons audio sound system - batcave´ish of course - and I´m in HT heaven.... ;)
Yeah, I think the next major shift will probably be video walls with stacked panels to get the desired size. But it's going to be a LONG time before these are affordable. At least 10 years out to get down to what an enthusiast like many of us here can afford. By that I mean something under $10,000 for comparable image sizes that we have now with our projection screens.

AT walls will need to be made as well. And I would like to see wall panels specifically made for home theater. I feel a lot of them will probably be made for bright viewing environments which means heavy optical coatings to help with direct sunlight or ambient room light hitting them. This is detrimental to image quality.  If not, I suspect many people will be reverting to chemicals to DIY remove the optical coatings. I see some people do that already with PC monitors.

Not as elegant as a lightsaber, but the multi quote worked.  :)

On the audio side, I believe Samsung separately and now with Harmon are working on solutions for video walls. IIRC Floyd mentioned some possible solutions in a post on AVS.

I think this may be coming faster than people think. I doubt it will take 10 years to get an affordable wall. I would guess more like five years at best. As business opt for walls over projection, there will be more options and eventually cheaper prices for the walls. It is inevitable.
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/category/blog/

And while I like projection, I am not married to it. A lot of guys were married to and nostalgic for CRT. Most have moved on. I think a lot of people see projection as a means to an end.

Re: What's The Next "Big" Thing for Consumer Video?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2017, 10:38:12 PM »
Not as elegant as a lightsaber, but the multi quote worked.  :)

On the audio side, I believe Samsung separately and now with Harmon are working on solutions for video walls. IIRC Floyd mentioned some possible solutions in a post on AVS.

I think this may be coming faster than people think. I doubt it will take 10 years to get an affordable wall. I would guess more like five years at best. As business opt for walls over projection, there will be more options and eventually cheaper prices for the walls. It is inevitable.
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/category/blog/

And while I like projection, I am not married to it. A lot of guys were married to and nostalgic for CRT. Most have moved on. I think a lot of people see projection as a means to an end.

I have my doubts as to only 5 years to get them to the point where the video quality is as good as (or better than) what we currently get from high end home theater projectors.

I will say this; video walls will probably be the only way we're going to get proper brightness for HDR at what us projector owners consider to be "normal" screen sizes. Projectors will never get there while maintaining excellent contrast. I wonder how much power these video walls will be pulling. I'm willing to be it's way more than the 300-400 watts our current Sony and JVC projectors are pulling to fill out screens.
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Re: What's The Next "Big" Thing for Consumer Video?
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2017, 11:28:54 PM »

....

I wonder how much power these video walls will be pulling. I'm willing to be it's way more than the 300-400 watts our current Sony and JVC projectors are pulling to fill out screens.

Good question. Our rates are increasing from 33 cents per kWh to 34 cents per kWh. Depending on where you live this could be a deal breaker. This is why I would like to see more LED lamp based projectors on the market. I don't see video walls being that popular in the near future to make them affordable for home use. I'd guess its at least 10 years out. I do think ultra short throw projectors will become some what popular. Pair them with a ALR screen and you have an affordable 100 inch screen.

Re: What's The Next "Big" Thing for Consumer Video?
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2017, 09:16:18 AM »
Yeah, I think the next major shift will probably be video walls with stacked panels to get the desired size. But it's going to be a LONG time before these are affordable. At least 10 years out to get down to what an enthusiast like many of us here can afford. By that I mean something under $10,000 for comparable image sizes that we have now with our projection screens.



If and when this does occur I don't think you will ever see them for under 10K from a reputable brand IMO.  I think if they could get something 110"+ minimally at 30-50k it would sell and I see that happening within the next 5 years (price I am not sure of).  If that wasn't on these companies radar I don't think that they would be showcasing similar technology at the trade shows as they already have.
JVC RS4500 projector/LG 65B7P/LG 55B7P/ Pannasonic UB900/Oppo 203/Oppo 103D/Apple tv 4K
St 130 138" scope screen
Marantz 7704 /Integra DTA 70.1
7.2.2 Atmos

Re: What's The Next "Big" Thing for Consumer Video?
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2017, 11:49:39 PM »
I for one am not hoping that projectors give way to video walls. I have a "living room" theater and don't have a room I can easily dedicate to a permanent screen. One of the great things about projection is that you can have a huge screen that's retractable! Can't beat WAF on that.

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