AVS Discussions
Home Theater Setups => Work in progress => Topic started by: Ginky Weeds on February 16, 2021, 04:06:33 PM
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I started my basement home theater design and project in 2014, then got sidetracked with life. Now I’m excited to be restarting the project. I've been consulting with Mike and have my plans pretty well solidified. I'll post status and progress here if you all don't mind. I'll appreciate any and all comments and information that you can share. Current plan basics include:
- 23' x 18.5' soundproofed room within a room using clips & channels & double drywall with Green Glue on the ceilings and double stud walls with isolation clips on 24" centers.
- Dolby Atmos 9.4.6 audio configuration with Klipsch LaScala LCR and two Tuba HT subwoofers behind an acoustically transparent screen wall.
- Klipsch Heresy wides & surrounds in columns; Klipsch in-ceiling Atmos top speakers.
- Equipment rack, Klipsch Heresy rear surround speakers and two PSA XV15 subwoofers in a rear alcove.
- 130" wide 2.35:1 AT Scope screen with 10' first row viewing distance.
- JVC RS1000 projector, or newer model if available when ready.
- Usage will be for both movies and TV.
- Sources will be UHD, Bluray and DVD discs and satellite TV. No streaming as we live in the country and are on satellite internet. Low speed and bandwidth coupled with expensive data caps are prohibitive.
A couple of Sketchup renderings of the design are attached. Also a few pictures of the messy workspace. The stack of drywall was previously installed and had to be taken down to install a basement waterproofing system. Also "debris" from the steel studs used. Basic framing is complete and I've begun electrical wiring and creating plans for routing of speaker cables, network cables, etc. All of that will be located in false soffits around three sides of the room. The rack will be fed by two separate 20A circuits.
A few pictures of the work in progress are attached.
Enough for now. I appreciate you sharing this journey with me and hope to learn from the experience of others.
Cheers!
Chuck
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Looks like it’s gonna be outstanding. Can’t wait to see it come along!
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Looks like that'll be a great room and lots of enjoyment!
One note just about the post - the font size is very small and a bit harder to read for some of us "older eyes", would be helpful to use a larger size.
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Nice !
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I noticed the font size was small but didn't know how to increase it. I'll pay attention to that in the future.
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Now that I've posted a second time and confirmed the larger font, let me ask a question or two.
HVAC: Since this will be a "sealed" room, I know I need to add provisions for air movement. I have an ideal spot for a dead vent right behind the equipment rack in the rear alcove. It's the empty space below the stairwell from above. I'm thinking I should build two dead vents, one each for supply and exhaust. Not knowing how to balance the air flow, I would simply install the same inline fans in both, each with a speed control. So air in would theoretically equal air out. But what happens when the HVAC system kicks on with heat or cool? I assume the added air would pressurize the room. Am I correct? Should I connect a relay to the HVAC fan that turns off the supply air dead vent when it's on? Also, I'd love to place the two dead vents both under the stairwell, but I'm concerned about the potential to "short circuit" the air flow. I'm sure it would be more ideal to place supply and exhaust at opposite ends of the room. Any suggestions on resources to answer these questions? I haven't tried consulting a local HVAC company as I live in the country and doubt they would have much experience with a sealed home theater room.
Cable routing and conduit: As stated in the initial post, I plan to run speaker wires through a false soffit on the two sides and the rear of the room. Is there any reason to run them in conduit? I don't foresee adding speakers at this point, but could run the conduit if there's a compelling reason to do so. Same question for HDMI. Since the equipment rack and the projector will both be located at the rear of the room, the length of the HDMI cable from processor to projector will be relatively short, no more than 15'. I don't see any reason to ever relocate the equipment rack to the front of the theater, so can't see a reason to run conduit with a pull string for that purpose. The only possibility I can see is if I changed to a UST projector at the front of the theater. But it's hard to imagine a UST throwing a better picture than a capable standard throw projector. Again, any thoughts?
Thanks!
Chuck
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The HVAC company can install dampers so that they can balance the supply and the return. Yes, best if supply is on opposite sides of the room.
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I love build threads so thank you for posting. I also love the idea of building a home theater around Klipsch Heritage speakers.
Are you into music as well? I would assume so given your speaker choice.
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I'm most definitely into music as well. I see myself enjoying the theater with no video image often. My last home theater had Klipsch KLF speakers and I loved them. Someone on this forum a long time ago suggested building a theater around the Heritage speakers and after I heard (and bought) a pair of LaScalas, I was sold. Definitely looking forward to both video and audio experiences.
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Thoughts on HVAC system. From everything I've read on the subject, and confirmed by the Soundproofing Company, I was planning on installing the two dead vents, one for supply and the other to move air out of the room. I engaged a HVAC contractor and after explaining the plan to him, he looked at me and asked if I'm an engineer. Guilty! He says I'm overthinking the system. Since I'll have two supplies into the room from the furnace/AC, his recommendation is to simply install a dead vent that does not contain a fan. That way if the room needs to expel air when the HVAC system is running it can. And when the HVAC system is not engaged, if the room needs a supply of air it has a path to pull it from. That simple dead vent would be easy to do using flex duct run in a circuitous path to absorb noise from both sides of the room.
Any thoughts on this approach? I'm thinking of getting a second opinion, but thought there might be some experience and know how here to help with the question.
Cheers!
Chuck
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And a brief update. Nothing that shows up much in pictures, but I've removed existing drywall on the theater side of the bedroom walls to avoid the triple leaf affect. Then I rewired the outlets in the bedrooms so that 1) they are on a different circuit than the HT and 2) to correct how they were wired originally. Since that was expected to be the finished wall before the HT was planned, the outlets on both sides of the wall were wired together on the same circuit. If left that way, the existing outlets on the theater side would have to be covered and left in the wall...a big no-no. So I ran new wire for the bedrooms only to solve the problem. The previous owner went cheap on them, putting all the bedroom outlets on one 15 amp circuit run with 14 ga romex. The outlets on the theater side will be on a 20 amp circuit run in 12 ga wire. And there will be two additional 20 amp circuits to feed the equipment rack and projector.
I also installed wood framing into the steel studs in the door openings to attached the door jambs to. Next up is installing the soffits around the HVAC ducts behind the screen wall and around plumbing on one of the side walls. Also designing and wiring the lighting for the room, running speaker wire (1000' of Monoprice 12 ga in the house), then installing clips and channel for the ceiling. It sounds so simple, doesn't it?
Cheers!
Chuck
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Oh, and the six speakers for the Atmos tops arrived last week. I now have all audio gear in house. My 90- year old mother-in-law who lives with us thought they were ceiling tiles. When I told her they were speakers, she asked why I needed six of them. My reply was because I only had 13 and needed more.:P
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Would you mind sharing which Monoprice 12AWG wiring you went with? Following your project and ours mirrors closely but a little behind your schedule! Also an audiophile so want to make sure we get the right 1000' of cable :-). Thanks in advance! Scott
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Hi Scott,
Thanks for following along. I hope to have more progress to report soon.
The cable is Monoprice Access. I bought two 500 foot spools and found them less expensive on Amazon than on the Monoprice site. Go figure....
Picture attached...worth a thousand words :)
Cheers!
Chuck
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I have a bunch of that wire in my room. :)
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It's been awhile since the last update. I've been busy with other projects and even though some progress was made on the HT, it was kind of minor. Solid core doors have been purchased and installed. A bulkhead has been built around the ductwork behind where the screen will be installed. I'm in the process of completing wiring and then will complete the rest of the soffits, insulate and be ready to begin drywall hanging. Hopefully in the next month.
A question as I'm working on wiring. For the speaker wire that will run from the rack at the rear of the HT to the front, how should that be done? Does it need to be in conduit or can I just run it against the bottom of the ceiling joists above the clip and channel ceiling? I won't need conduit for HDMI since the rack will be at the back of the room, so just need to address the speaker wires for L, C, R, and two subwoofers. Also for the six in ceiling speakers. Wires for the surrounds will be run in soffits at the sides of the room. And I guess I should ask about them as well...conduit or no conduit?
Thanks for your comments and advice. I'm hoping to post more often in the coming weeks!
Cheers!
Chuck
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Does not have to be in conduit. Just run plenum rated wire.
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That's what I've got. Thanks Mike!
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Conduit just helps if you ever need to fish wires for some reason. Wit that I did not install conduit. Except for hdmi runs
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And duh, after reviewing my plans again, I forgot that all the speaker wires can be installed in soffits. So no need to run them over the clips and channel on the ceiling. Bonus!!
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Working on electrical circuits. Should the projector be on it's own 15A circuit? Or can it go on a circuit with some lights?
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Working on electrical circuits. Should the projector be on it's own 15A circuit? Or can it go on a circuit with some lights?
I have mine on a separate circuit. But might be overkill
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If the projector is going to be ceiling mounted, I would run the romex from the receptacle back to the equipment rack and plug it into the surge protector(s) with the other equipment. This creates a romex 'extension cord' and will pass electrical inspection. The projector you are considering (JVC DLA-RS1000) only draws 3.4 amps. This way all of your components are on the same phase in the electrical panel (make sure to put all circuit breakers that feed the theater equipment on the same phase). I would not put the projector on the same circuit as any lights because the lights may cause electrical 'noise' on the power line. I hope this helps.
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Agree with Jeff.
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Is there new 'best practice' on what type of recessed lighting to use in a home theater and how to soundproof them? Old practice was using incandescent repair fixtures with backer boxes, but with the advent of very thin LED fixtures, are backer boxes still the best approach? Would installing the thin fixtures with acoustic caulk around them be effective? Or are surface mounted fixtures now used with simple junction boxes and putty pads instead of the backer boxes? Heat is obviously not a problem, so this is a question of how to most efficiently do soundproofing with the lights.
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You can seal them with acoustic putty. I didn’t and have no rattles. Ymmv
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Any recommendations on system automation? I plan to use a Harmony remote to control the AV electronics and would like to be able to control lighting as well. This won't be a really large, fancy theater, but I'd like to turn the lights on from a wall switch when I enter the room and then control dimming when a movie starts. Or, go super whizzy and use motion detection to automatically turn the lights on when entering the room. I'm looking at a few recommendations online such as GE C-Start Smart Switch Motion Sensing Dimmer, Leviton Decora Smart Wi-Fi Dimmer (2nd gen), and Lutron Caseta. I don't currently have or use a smart hub like Alexa or Google Assistant, but would consider this as well, if desired.
Any experience to share? I'm computer savvy, but a total rookie with system automation.
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Any recommendations on system automation? I plan to use a Harmony remote to control the AV electronics and would like to be able to control lighting as well. This won't be a really large, fancy theater, but I'd like to turn the lights on from a wall switch when I enter the room and then control dimming when a movie starts. Or, go super whizzy and use motion detection to automatically turn the lights on when entering the room. I'm looking at a few recommendations online such as GE C-Start Smart Switch Motion Sensing Dimmer, Leviton Decora Smart Wi-Fi Dimmer (2nd gen), and Lutron Caseta. I don't currently have or use a smart hub like Alexa or Google Assistant, but would consider this as well, if desired.
Any experience to share? I'm computer savvy, but a total rookie with system automation.
This may be overkill for your purposes, but after using (and liking) Harmony for several years, I made the switch to Control4 for my Theater and my Home as well. (And I imagine you're aware, but Harmony is now out of the remote control business, so it's unclear how viable that will be as a long-term solution.)
What I like about Contol4 is that it is incredibly robust, reliable, and customizable. I liked Harmony, but absolutely love Control4. You can add any systems that you want, and fully integrate their operation: AV, Lights, HVAC, Locks, Cameras, etc.
It can also be integrated with Alexa or Google. So currently, I walk into my Theater and tell Alexa "Turn on the Blu-ray" and all the electronics get turned on, with correct input selections, the Blu-ray Player tray is ejected, the Envy selects the appropriate 'Profile' for that device, the lights are dimmed, and the thermostat is adjusted. When I'm ready and hit Play, the movie starts, the lights are completely dimmed down, and the volume is slowly ramped up. Hitting Pause for a bathroom or snack break brings up the lights enough to see on the way out, with Play turning them back off again.
Control4 is Dealer-centric, so it is not a full DIY option. But they do have software available to any interested end-user, that will allow you to customize the programming for perhaps 95% of the things you would want to do.
The power, versatility, and expandability does come with a price, but then what doesn't.
Anyway, thought I'd just make you aware of this as an option, even if it might be more than you want. But if you wanted to add Home Automation for other areas or systems in the Home, this would be an ideal way to do it.
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Quick update on planned equipment. I've decided to take a big step forward with the video side and have pre-ordered one of the new JVC RS2100/NZ7 laser projectors. And changing the screen to 120" wide 2.37:1 scope aspect, still in Dreamweave V7. Unless reviews of actual production models disappoint, this should provide a very versatile approach with much better video quality than my original plan.
Also, finished the electrical runs, just need to add the final run for the projector, now that I've determined it's location. I'm going to put the outlet and accessory cable feed in the vertical surface of the rear false soffit that will run nearby behind the projector. One less hole in the ceiling and a direct route to the equipment rack. Based on a great tip received here, the projector run will be a 14 ga Romex wire from the outlet that will terminate with a plug on the rack end to be plugged into a surge protector. The outlet in the soffit will have a built-in surge suppressor. So I'll have three levels of protection for the projector, whole house, Panamax 5300-PM and at the outlet.
Started insulating in the ceiling. I won't finish until I build and install a duct muffler for the HVAC run and also install new water tubing from the Reverse Osmosis unit to the refrigerator and kitchen sink. Both currently are installed with tees and couplers that would end up in the ceiling and bulkhead and would be worrisome as potential leak paths. I'll replace the tubing with direct runs from the RO unit to each with one tee placed near the RO unit where it can be addressed easily and without damage to the HT if it ever leaks.
Next supply planning will be to determine drywall needs and get it on order. A local supplier will deliver and place it where I want it. I've moved all the audio equipment out of the area by the walkout door to create a space for the drywall. The difficulty will be getting it into the HT through the entry door working by myself. Once the ceiling is up, the drywall could be in the HT, but it would be nearly impossible to work around it to install the ceiling..
Also will determine accessory cable needs and locations and create a shopping list for those items. I see HDMI from rack to projector, Ethernet from upstairs modem to switch at rack. Plus a run of HDMI, Ethernet and USB from the rack to outlets at the front of the riser.
Still need to build the bulkhead around the water and sewer pipes on the north wall, run speaker cables throughout the HT, build the dead vent and build backer boxes for speakers and recessed lights.
Long way to go for this one-man construction crew, but feels like it's coming together and I’m enjoying the journey.
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After more research on automation, I think I'm going upgrade from the Harmony 900 remote to a Harmony Elite with hub. The Elite will control all the AV equipment and interface with the Lutron Caseta bridge to control the lights (and thermostat and fans, if desired). I know that Logitech has stopped manufacture of the Harmony remotes, but hope that this approach will serve me for several years until something better comes along.
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Latest update...got my backer boxes cut out and assembled. I'm fortunate to have a good friend across the street with a wood shop. We collaborated on the boxes after I designed them. They are cut from 5/8 particle board and I'll be lining them with 5/8 drywall and Green Glue over the next few days.
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Backer boxes finished. Good first experience with applying Green Glue. Toughest part was cutting and fitting the drywall in the boxes.
Ceiling speaker boxes
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/ceiling-speaker-boxes-jpg.3182029/)
Ultrathin recessed light fixture boxes:
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/recessed-light-boxes-jpg.3182030/)
Combo boxes. These will accommodate both a speaker and a recessed light placed next to each other in one box .
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/combo-boxes-jpg.3182031/)
The sealant isn't pretty, but won't be visible. I plan to use the approach of mounting them with supports fastened to the ceiling channels. After doing the small replumbing job, I'll install DD + GG under the two HVAC supply runs and be ready to locate the backer boxes and finish the ceiling insulation. Then on to building one last bulkhead before running speaker wiring. I also need to run a LAN cable from my upstairs modem to the theater. What do you recommend? CAT 5, 6, 7, 8? I'm totally unfamiliar with network cabling and will appreciate your advice. It will be about a 50' run.
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PS: Should I put insulation in the tops of the boxes to add dampening? Inside the boxes, not outside.
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PS: Should I put insulation in the tops of the boxes to add dampening? Inside the boxes, not outside.
I would put a square of insulation at one end of the box for some absorption so that is not completely hollow. That is really all you need.
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A bit of progress to report. All of the electrical wiring is done except what will be installed in the false soffits after the drywall is hung on the ceiling and walls. The bulkhead has been built around the plumbing pipes on one wall.
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/img_20211015_190255587e-jpg.3185838/)
I've installed a short conduit for the HDMI cables to the projector.
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/img_20211015_190113189e-jpg.3185839/)
I've also provided for a Romex cable power connection to the projector. The white wire coiled at the middle of the wall will be wired into the outlet box in the soffit above and the coiled cable will have a 110 V plug installed that will be plugged into a Panamax M5300-PM Power Conditioner/Surge Suppressor. This will provide double surge protection for the projector. Also provided power for a dead vent fan in the area underneath the stairs directly behind this wall. And ran a thermostat cable between the furnace room and the dead vent in case I decide to run the vent fan from a relay that triggers when the HVAC fan starts.
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/img_20211014_161302716e-jpg.3185840/)
Today I installed the recessed lights and backer boxes in the two bulkheads. Took me awhile, but I got them installed and tested. Love the small footprint of the entire light assembly and the ability to select light temperature. And they are bright! I think I'm going to really enjoy the dimmers on the switches. Thinking about starting speaker wire runs tomorrow afternoon.
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/img_20211016_184358578e-jpg.3186212/)
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/img_20211016_184422606e-jpg.3186213/)
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Question on speaker cable runs. I know at the speaker ends, holes in drywall where the cables go through are sealed with acoustical sealant. What's best practice at the rack end? All of my cables will be run in soffits (except where the Atmos speaker cables traverse the ceiling from the soffits to the backer boxes). The rack will be in an alcove that will be hidden from the rest of the room by the rack itself and by fabric panels on either side of it. There will be two bundles of speaker cables, each coming from a side of the room. To preserve the soundproof shell, I think the speaker cables should drop into the rack area from the soffit above rather than penetrating the double drywall shell. How to finish this entry into the soffit? If I use a low voltage bracket, it will create a pretty large opening into the soffit. Or should I drill a hole in the "ceiling" of the soffit just large enough for the bundle to pass through, then seal with acoustical sealant? Then finish with a wall plate designed to accommodate wire bundles? I've seen them both open and with what look like brush bristles or even a rubber panel that the cables pass through. Other options? Guess I'd better think this through before running the cables. Advice is appreciated!
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After more thought, I've settled on strategy for cable runs. Since the rear alcove where the rack will be located will be hidden from view except when working on the equipment, I'm going to essentially treat it as an electronics closet. So I'm going to move the conduit in the above picture from inside the wall to on the surface of the wall to avoid that opening in the soundproofing envelope. And my speaker cables will be in two separate bundles that will run in the false soffits with two holes to drop them to the rack, finished with recessed cable access wallplates. In the riser, I'll install a conduit that will poke through the top of the riser near the rack and run to the front of the riser for HDMI, USB, RCA and LAN cables. They'll be terminated in the appropriate keystone inserts for each cable. I'm toying with adding speaker cables as well, but not really a fan at this point. They would be for Buttkickers if I chose to use them, but think it's very unlikely that I'll add them.
With those decisions made, I'm getting ready to run the speaker cables, finish insulation, install clips and channel on the ceiling, install remaining backer boxes and be ready for drywall.
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/img_20211020_184445645e-jpg.3187783/)
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(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/img_20211020_184508931e-jpg.3187784/)
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looks great! really coming along!
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Got the insulation finished today. Will take a break over the weekend as we'll be visiting family. I'll be ready to restart on Monday. A great weekend to all!
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Making some progress. Clips and channel installed on the ceiling. Backer boxes installed and lights wired. Really like these new ultrathin recessed lights and their selectable color temperature. Played with that a bit and found at this point I like the light on the warmer spectrum. But they'll be accessible after installed in the ceiling and soffits, so I can adjust if I change my mind after the room is finished. Insulation is completed in the theater. I'm finishing insulation in the hallway and then will be ready for drywall. Hoping to order drywall today. Going to take a break to enjoy some unseasonably warm temperatures here in Michigan to get everything ready for winter.
Just bought a batch of Blurays and 4K UHD discs, so getting prepared to enjoy the theater when finished.
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Looking good. What are the recessed lights? I couldn't see a specific brand/model mentioned - are they a smart light (i.e. Philips Hue) or just able to be controlled via dimmer that's smart?
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Hey Paul,
These are not smart lights, just thin LEDs. They'll be controlled by Lutron Caseta smart dimmer switches that will integrate with the Harmony Elite remote. I'll also be adding a motion sensor to automatically turn them on and off when entering/exiting the theater.
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Finished insulation and drywall will be delivered tomorrow. So hoping to get to that milestone of hanging and finishing the drywall soon. I was going to hire the hanging out and have a friend in the business do the finishing. But he's not working right now, so I'm planning to do the hanging with him to provide some additional income for him.
The next update should include pictures of OSB and drywall covering the bare studs and insulation.
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86 sheets of drywall delivered. Will start hanging it next week.
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I have a love hate relationship with theater building. It’s fun and exciting yet long and tedious at times. Yours is looking great!!
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Lumber for stage and riser is in the house. My wallet's a lot lighter....>:(
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Has wood not come down in price?
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Supposedly, but it sure seemed expensive yesterday. Still stings....
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While waiting for my drywall amigo to break free, I've been designing my stage and riser. And I'm torn on what fill to use in each. I've read lots of dialogue on the other forum debating between the two. My conclusion is that those that have been building home theaters for some time all recommend filling the stage with sand and the riser with insulation. There are others, even one that measured vibrations and SPLs in the process, that couldn't measure a difference or simply don't want to lay out the cash and effort to schlep bags of play sand. I'm leaning toward stuffing both with insulation and using isolation feet on my four subwoofers, two on the stage and two on the riser. Have any of you built stages or risers with subwoofers on them and not used sand as an acoustic absorber? Hoping to hear some actual experience.
Thanks!
Chuck
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Ive never seen anything OTHER than sand being used. I dont have a stage so cant directly comment but from all Ihave seen its sand or nothing. never heard of insulation being used tbh
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It appears some people are using insulation to avoid the cost and labor intensity of the sand. And I agree that sand in the stage is "best practice". So I'm coming around to filling the stage with sand.
The riser is a different story. I haven't seen any reports of sand used there, just "pink fluffy". I'm still studying if I want to and can use the riser as a bass trap. I will either fill with sand under the two subwoofers and use insulation in the remaining cavities or use insulation all the way and attempt to design it as a bass trap. That requires venting of the riser from what I read and I haven't absorbed all that yet to come to a conclusive design.
Chuck
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The riser most use it as a bass trap so def no sand. If mine was taller I would have cut vents into it to make it a bass trap. But…
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Sorry I didn’t read your post all the way through lol
Yeah you have to design it ahead of time a s a trap. Using hangars. And cutting vents around the edges. They work extremely well. Risers are so expensive Now to build with 3/4” plywood being 100$ a sheet
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I spent a lot of time yesterday searching and reading about risers as bass traps and concluded that it's not worth pursuing since my riser isn't tall enough to have much affect. That's according to the Erskine group. So I'm just going to stuff the riser with insulation with no vents. I do plan to stack insulation blocks above each of the four subs to function as bass traps. And with isolation feet on the subs, I think I'll be good to go.
Yesterday I ordered 160 60 lb. bags of play sand for the stage. Hope my old bones endure the 'rite of passage'...
Happy Thanksgiving all!!
Chuck
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I'm just about to start my home theater in the basement. Home Theater will be built on concrete. Subs in front and riser in rear wall. This is the first I've heard about risers being used as bass traps. I'm wondering how the effectiveness of a riser is driven by insulation versus vents. For example, what if I pink insulation, but not vents (since vents would me more labor intensive in terms of installing them and then getting carpeting around them). Wondering how much help the vents will help. Insulation, on the other hand, seems much simpler to add. So, trying to see is the insulation would be a bigger bang for the buck approach. Or do we have to worry about vents, and which direction the studs in the riser face, etc. Any enlightenment?
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By the way, the 3/4" plywood wasn't $100 a sheet, 'only' about a third of that. $100 would qualify as 'sticker shock' for sure!!
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randman, my understanding of the intended effects of the two approaches to riser design are different. Filling with insulation without vents I believe is simply intended to quiet vibrations and remove hollowness as impacted by footfalls or sound. The broadband absorber approach uses the entire cavity filled with insulation to absorb and deconstruct sound waves, with primary interest in low frequencies. To create the large cavity in this design, the riser is built with stringers that are a size smaller than the frame. In my case, 2 x 8 stringers in a 2 x 10 frame. This allows sound waves to pass throughout the insulation in the entire cavity. How effective are they? I don't know...I'm still struggling with the whole concept of stage and riser design and why they are not designed in the same way.
This morning I took advantage of the opportunity to send questions to Peter Aylett on the other forum. Peter is introduced as an integrator of over 30 years and now a partner at HTE Acoustic Interior Design, Peter currently chairs the CTA/CEDIA R10 Standards Committee as well as one of its workgroups currently re-writing best practice for entertainment space/cinema/theatre audio design. Here are the questions I asked:
Peter, I’m interested in your comments on stage and riser construction. I’m currently designing them for my HT (in progress; hanging drywall next week) and have read extensively the discussions on the AVS forums regarding both. And I come away with no clear approach. I understand that ‘best practice’ for stages is to fill them with sand to absorb sound and prevent vibration of the stage and the surrounding structure. I also understand that many like to design risers as ‘broadband absorbers’ using vents to allow sound waves to enter the structure and be deconstructed by the insulation filling the large cavity. I see both as sound (pun intended) approaches, but have the following questions about my design that includes large LCR speakers and two subwoofers on a 17’ x 6’ x 10” stage and the equipment rack and two large subwoofers on the 10’ x 10’ x 10” riser:
- Do you agree that the stage should be filled with sand? If not, what do you recommend instead?
- Do you promote the design of a riser as a broadband absorber? If not, what do you recommend?
- In thinking about the applications of each, if the broadband absorber is desirable in the riser, why shouldn’t the stage be designed as a broadband absorber as well? It will have similar impact from and equal number of subwoofers as the riser, right? Conversely, if sand is more beneficial, why not use it as fill in the riser as well?
- Do you recommend use of corner bass traps in both front and rear (both will be concealed in my design), regardless of construction of riser (and stage?) as broadband absorbers?
I hope to get a response that helps to guide my design decisions on the stage and riser. Obviously, I'm still struggling.
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Def looking forward to his response
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randman, my understanding of the intended effects of the two approaches to riser design are different. Filling with insulation without vents I believe is simply intended to quiet vibrations and remove hollowness as impacted by footfalls or sound. The broadband absorber approach uses the entire cavity filled with insulation to absorb and deconstruct sound waves, with primary interest in low frequencies. To create the large cavity in this design, the riser is built with stringers that are a size smaller than the frame. In my case, 2 x 8 stringers in a 2 x 10 frame. This allows sound waves to pass throughout the insulation in the entire cavity. How effective are they? I don't know...I'm still struggling with the whole concept of stage and riser design and why they are not designed in the same way.
This morning I took advantage of the opportunity to send questions to Peter Aylett on the other forum. Peter is introduced as an integrator of over 30 years and now a partner at HTE Acoustic Interior Design, Peter currently chairs the CTA/CEDIA R10 Standards Committee as well as one of its workgroups currently re-writing best practice for entertainment space/cinema/theatre audio design. Here are the questions I asked:
Peter, I’m interested in your comments on stage and riser construction. I’m currently designing them for my HT (in progress; hanging drywall next week) and have read extensively the discussions on the AVS forums regarding both. And I come away with no clear approach. I understand that ‘best practice’ for stages is to fill them with sand to absorb sound and prevent vibration of the stage and the surrounding structure. I also understand that many like to design risers as ‘broadband absorbers’ using vents to allow sound waves to enter the structure and be deconstructed by the insulation filling the large cavity. I see both as sound (pun intended) approaches, but have the following questions about my design that includes large LCR speakers and two subwoofers on a 17’ x 6’ x 10” stage and the equipment rack and two large subwoofers on the 10’ x 10’ x 10” riser:
- Do you agree that the stage should be filled with sand? If not, what do you recommend instead?
- Do you promote the design of a riser as a broadband absorber? If not, what do you recommend?
- In thinking about the applications of each, if the broadband absorber is desirable in the riser, why shouldn’t the stage be designed as a broadband absorber as well? It will have similar impact from and equal number of subwoofers as the riser, right? Conversely, if sand is more beneficial, why not use it as fill in the riser as well?
- Do you recommend use of corner bass traps in both front and rear (both will be concealed in my design), regardless of construction of riser (and stage?) as broadband absorbers?
I hope to get a response that helps to guide my design decisions on the stage and riser. Obviously, I'm still struggling.
I plan on having wall-to-wall carpeting and 1/2" padding under the carpet, so I'm not sure how much more insulation will help regarding minimizing vibrations and footsteps. Carpet/pad will go over the concrete floor in the front of the riser and on the riser itself. Putting insulation in the risers doesn't seem like it would require much labor and cost, so it may be good to just do it without more "analysis paralysis" :-).
But adding vents would be a bit more labor/time/cost intensive, and from my quick perusal of this topic, it has to be done mathematically correctly in order to determine the ideal places to put the vents? Not sure how much I would gain by doing the vents.
Your other questions are very interesting. Wow. Sand is so much heavier and messier than insulation. I recall making a mess when I added sand to some speaker stands in the past, and decided not to do it again when I got new stands later :D.
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I'd encourage using the insulation in the riser. For the same reason that most speakers contain fill and why drummers put pillows in their kick drums. Should knock down the hollow sounds and help to keep it from resonating. And as you say, it's relatively inexpensive and easy to do.
Adding vents sounds like an effective approach as a bass trap. I wouldn't know where to start to make it a tuned chamber. But I like the idea of making it a broadband absorber using vents placed at the wall boundaries. In my case I can add vents that will be concealed from the theater area. So I will likely do that. But still waiting to hear an opinion from Peter Aylett before making that decision.
Chuck
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I'm still waiting to start hanging drywall, but meanwhile, I hung the first panel on the ceiling - the OSB panel over the area where the projector will be mounted. Backed up the 5/8" OSB with 1" plywood to give the lag screws more to bite into when I install the projector. Hoping that my friend will be free next week to start installing drywall.
Also located the pipe for the exhaust dead vent. It will be behind the equipment rack and concealed from view along with subwoofers, speakers, cabling, etc. The dead vent enclosure will be the area under the stairwell and will exhaust into the space outside the HT toward where the return ducts are situated.
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I’m not sure it can be used as a broadband absorption. I’ve only known it as a bass trap.
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Maybe I misinterpreted what I read about the vents in the riser. Maybe it's a bit of semantics. I think intuitively a broadband absorber would at least partially function as a bass trap, since it's arguably most important function is to absorb those long wavelengths. The best description of the intended function of bass traps I've seen is this:
Bass traps don't strictly "trap bass" and reduce the bass level. You easily could do that with equalization. What they do is help minimize standing waves and make the frequency response SMOOTHER and more predictable throughout the room. When standing waves collide from different directions they either "stack up" or (partially) "cancel each other out". This leads to some areas of the room where the bass is louder and boomy, and other areas where it is shallower and lacking in volume. What you want is for a more consistent frequency response anywhere in the listening area, to which you can apply equalization as necessary for the proper overall frequency response.
So I've probably been using the wrong terms, but the vented, insulated riser is intended to function as above and I will probably pursue it. Thanks for clarifying!
Cheers!
Chuck
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Has wood not come down in price?
The price of 2x4s and plywood has dropped a bit but it's still more expensive than pre-pandemic.
For example, I bought some 2x4x8' back in early 2020 for around $2.48 each. That same 2x4 went up to over $7 and stayed there throughout late 2020 up until this summer. It is about $3.78 now.
As for 3/4" plywood, I bought a couple of sheets in early 2020 for just under $30. I didn't track the high but have noticed it's now around $42.
I can't imagine the increased cost of building a house right now. I've been wanting to add a storage building on my property but I think that project will have to wait.
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when i rebuilt my theater last august it was 5.75 per stud. this past summer it was $8.85
so crazy...good to see it coming back down
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Put some drywall up today. Started with the easy part...the hallway is done. Wednesday will start on the theater.
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man do i hate drywall. luckily my wifes cousin does it for a living and cut us a deal...$400 to install it in and outside the theater.
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That is a deal! I don't mind hanging it, but happy to have a friend that does finishing for a living! And that knows a few tricks of the trade on laying it out and hanging it.
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From my experience, drywall finishing is an art and I am not that kind of artistic. ::)
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Can’t. Stand. Mud and taping. I’m so bad at it. Grrrrrr
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I can't stand drywall dust...you'll be finding it lying in places for years after the work is completed!
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Yeah, it will mix well with the dust from the road we live on. I hate it!
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are you doing fabric panels?
those are fun. till you get to the 20th one..then you cant wait for them to be done..lol
I still (a year+ later) havent made my atmos speaker grills. maybe ill tackle them during xmas break
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Yep, planning fabric panels as well. Looking forward to getting there, but it sounds tedious!
Hung the first layer of ceiling today. Managed to remember to apply acoustical sealant before installing over the backer boxes!
Feels good to be making progress!
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really moving along!!
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More progress. Installed OSB in the areas where the surround speakers will be mounted. Ready for first layer of drywall on the walls. Test fit the surround speaker backer boxes and all fits well.
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The question of stage and riser design has been rumbling around in my mind and making me hesitant to proceed with my previous decision. I had hoped that Peter Aylett would shed some light on the questions I posed, but alas, he chose not to respond. The biggest unanswered question for me is why treat the stage differently from the riser (at least in my case); and if designing the riser as a bass trap, why not do the same with the stage? So, and this is my final answer, I'm proceeding with insulation in both the stage and riser and holding the possibility to design either or both as traps. I have all the materials, so will proceed to build them as soon as the drywall is finished. The sand that I had purchased has been returned before I picked it up. So my back is thanking me as well.
I'm at peace now! :)
And today I took the first step toward coming up with a color palette for the theater. I don't want anything bright and do want most of it dark hues. The ceiling will be black, possibly using Rosco. Currently looking at greens and grays for the theater. Carpet will be a challenge since I can't use traditional carpet and pad since some of the walls are not mechanically anchored to the floor. So no stretching can be done. Looking for acceptable colors and patterns in carpets with integrated padding. I expect choices to be slim....
Finally, I can report that the projector that I pre-ordered arrived at AVS yesterday and will be directly shipped to Kris Deering for calibration before it makes it's trip home to Michigan. I also have purchased a 120" wide Dreamscreen V7 scope screen and frame to pair with the JVC DLA-RS2100.
I'd better get busy! :P
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Awesome
I think the idea of the riser vs stage is the subs are on the stage so you don’t want any rattling. Vs being on the riser you are at the opposite end of the room from the subs so want the bass trap.
In my setup I have subs in both locations. So it’s moot.
But my honest opinion. You will be 100% fine. I think alot of these things are over thought and over engineered. We are talking tiny tiny improvements . I did my best to properly treat my room. And I guarantee the sound in my room bs one designed by paying an acoustic room designer thousands of dollars for a plan are minimal. Would it sound better. Probably but not enough to justify the $$. Diminished returns for sure
Also very jealous of your PJ purchase :)
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I will have subs in both places as well, which is primarily why I believe they should be designed similarly. A major factor in my selection of insulation vs. sand. That and cost and physical stress! :-[
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The question of stage and riser design has been rumbling around in my mind and making me hesitant to proceed with my previous decision. I had hoped that Peter Aylett would shed some light on the questions I posed, but alas, he chose not to respond. The biggest unanswered question for me is why treat the stage differently from the riser (at least in my case); and if designing the riser as a bass trap, why not do the same with the stage? So, and this is my final answer, I'm proceeding with insulation in both the stage and riser and holding the possibility to design either or both as traps. I have all the materials, so will proceed to build them as soon as the drywall is finished. The sand that I had purchased has been returned before I picked it up. So my back is thanking me as well.
I'm at peace now! :)
And today I took the first step toward coming up with a color palette for the theater. I don't want anything bright and do want most of it dark hues. The ceiling will be black, possibly using Rosco. Currently looking at greens and grays for the theater. Carpet will be a challenge since I can't use traditional carpet and pad since some of the walls are not mechanically anchored to the floor. So no stretching can be done. Looking for acceptable colors and patterns in carpets with integrated padding. I expect choices to be slim....
Finally, I can report that the projector that I pre-ordered arrived at AVS yesterday and will be directly shipped to Kris Deering for calibration before it makes it's trip home to Michigan. I also have purchased a 120" wide Dreamscreen V7 scope screen and frame to pair with the JVC DLA-RS2100.
I'd better get busy! :P
Maybe a commercial carpet that can be glued down?
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That's right Craig. I was introduced to this type of carpet after finishing two bedrooms in the basement with the same restrictions. All glued down with no stress on the walls. I'm hoping I can find a pattern and color I like. As I recall, alternatives were very limited when we did the bedrooms.
I wonder what commercial carpets are installed in movie theaters? Might be an interesting Internet search?
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That's right Craig. I was introduced to this type of carpet after finishing two bedrooms in the basement with the same restrictions. All glued down with no stress on the walls. I'm hoping I can find a pattern and color I like. As I recall, alternatives were very limited when we did the bedrooms.
I wonder what commercial carpets are installed in movie theaters? Might be an interesting Internet search?
A good carpet contractor should be able to find you something. And, it has to be something that is actually available.
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First layer of drywall is nearly complete. Just need to finish it out under the large bulkhead after using some of the drywall that's stacked there. Everything else is complete including caulking all the seams with acoustic sealant.
We'll hang the second layer of ceiling tomorrow. Green Glue time!! I put the walls up myself this week since my friend was called back to work. We'll work together tomorrow on the ceiling.
Started thinking about decor in the room. Looking at some paint colors and carpets, as well as acoustical panel fabrics. It will all be dark, for sure, but I need to find the right balance of black and other color, probably dark green. Still noodling on this.
The projector was shipped to Kris for calibration earlier this week. I told him to take his time and work on others first since I won't be ready to install mine for awhile. The screen shipped today and is due on Tuesday. Starting to come together!
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Second layer installed on the ceiling and in the areas where false soffits needed to be built. Those were structured today and the speaker wires have been routed to the equipment rack area. Hoping to be ready for mud and tape this weekend.
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Getting there! :)
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Wow. A ton done. Great job
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Another milestone reached...all the drywall is hung, both layers. Hoping to begin mud & tape next week. Feels good to cross another one off the list!
Still considering color scheme and carpets. And have started looking at HT seating. I wish we had access to a place where I could actually sit in some of them rather than ordering willy nilly off the Net.
So to recap, received the screen, the projector is still with Kris for calibration, projector mount and HDMI cables ordered. Next step will be riser and stage construction after drywall finishing.
Merry Christmas to me...I'm happy with the status of the project.
And Merry Christmas to you all as well!
Chuck
ps: Tried to load pictures but getting some kind of GoDaddy error. I'll try again later....
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The GoDaddy Website Firewall doesn't like me tonight...
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And have started looking at HT seating. I wish we had access to a place where I could actually sit in some of them rather than ordering willy nilly off the Net.
Yeah, I'm building an HT as well. Unfortunately, no place near me where I can try the seats, so I'll be ordering 6 of them without trying them. One thing that I've noticed after looking at seating online on and off for the past 6 months or so... it seems that the online sellers constantly are on sale (but the [fill-in-the blank] occasion for the sale differs), and the sale prices are actually their "normal" prices.
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Trying again with the pictures....
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Yeah, I'm building an HT as well. Unfortunately, no place near me where I can try the seats, so I'll be ordering 6 of them without trying them. One thing that I've noticed after looking at seating online on and off for the past 6 months or so... it seems that the online sellers constantly are on sale (but the [fill-in-the blank] occasion for the sale differs), and the sale prices are actually their "normal" prices.
Thanks for the feedback on the seating prices. I just started looking and find that there's a sale that ends tomorrow. I appreciate your comments. They will probably save me some stress about missing out on a sale.
Have you narrowed down your choice? HTMarketplace, perhaps? Seems quite popular.
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Looks so awesome ! That moment when it’s actually a room :)
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Have you narrowed down your choice? HTMarketplace, perhaps? Seems quite popular.
By HTMarketplace, do you mean HTMarket? I was looking in 4Seating and Theaterseatstore. So far, I like Seatcraft (based on specs, since so can't sit on any of them). Another thing to think about that may affect cost is whether you want white glove delivery. I don't want to carry the chairs from my front door to the basement (a long ways away), so I'll probably get the service. One store chargers per seat, while another store charges by the order, which is cheaper.
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By HTMarketplace, do you mean HTMarket? I was looking in 4Seating and Theaterseatstore. So far, I like Seatcraft (based on specs, since so can't sit on any of them). Another thing to think about that may affect cost is whether you want white glove delivery. I don't want to carry the chairs from my front door to the basement (a long ways away), so I'll probably get the service. One store chargers per seat, while another store charges by the order, which is cheaper.
Yes, HTMarket. I find a couple of models interesting. I've also looked briefly at Seatcraft and also RowOne, which appears to be a Michigan based company and perhaps at least in part locally made. Lots to consider...
Regarding the issue of moving the chairs into the HT space, I wonder how heavy each piece is when disassembled? In other words, how heavy are the backs and the bases? I expect the bases to be heavier, but wonder if they would be light enough to enlist the help of a friend to move. Good opportunity to have friends over for reward drinks after the event! :D
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Yes, HTMarket. I find a couple of models interesting. I've also looked briefly at Seatcraft and also RowOne, which appears to be a Michigan based company and perhaps at least in part locally made. Lots to consider...
Regarding the issue of moving the chairs into the HT space, I wonder how heavy each piece is when disassembled? In other words, how heavy are the backs and the bases? I expect the bases to be heavier, but wonder if they would be light enough to enlist the help of a friend to move. Good opportunity to have friends over for reward drinks after the event! :D
I didn't see specific weight specs in Seatcraft's web site, but going to Amazon will give you an idea of how much the recliners weigh (granted, the specified weights may be the entire shipping package, so actual weight would be less). Still, $200 white glove delivery which seems to be what one site charges is a reasonable price (assuming $200 covers ALL the chairs in one order), but another site that charges $99 per chair seems a bit much (in which case strong friends would be welcome if all they want is pizza and beer).
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The room is ready for mud & tape. All the gaps are sealed, all the holes are cut, all the lights are wired. My friend will be starting the finishing tomorrow morning.
Meanwhile, I plan to work on the dead vent while he's finishing.
I also test fit the speakers and lights to be sure they fit into their holes. And I was asked if the speaker retainers will accommodate the two layers of drywall in the ceiling. Kudos to Klipsch for designing the CDT-5800-CII with 1 3/4" reach on the retainers. And I test fit the side surround backer boxes to confirm their fit. All is well!
Sorry, but GoDaddy still doesn't like me and my PC. It errors out when I try to attach pictures. I'll keep trying...
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Drywall taping is complete. Finishing will begin on Monday.
Happy New Year!
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Pictures.....
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GoDaddy finally let me post some pictures. Go figure...
Maybe Daddy is starting the new year with a new attitude! :D
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That's what they call "light at the end of the tunnel!" Now the real fun begins :)
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Narrowing my decor design. Ready to put this out there for comments. Note only one of the columns is shown in detail, the black one is just a placeholder.
Initial thought is flat black ceiling and soffits; flat dark green walls; satin black wood trim; medium green fabric panels. Haven't settled on carpet yet.....
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nice nice nice
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mud..then sand...mud then sand. uggg not a fan lol
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Speed bump encountered...my friend might have been exposed to COVID at work today. So no drywall finishing until he's clear to be here. I'll have to work on other things that were farther down the list....
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Ugh. I feel that. Wife and daughter just got it. And wife and son are immunocompromised. So tough going round here
What’s on your to do list?
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Build dead vent, paint lights and speaker grilles, build riser and stage, perhaps a bit of added drywall in the furnace room. Enough to keep me busy for awhile...
Also settling on room decor, including carpet.
And I should be receiving my projector next week. Kris plans to start the calibration tomorrow. Too bad it will be awhile before I can mount it and the screen and have the first WOW visual experience.
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Build dead vent, paint lights and speaker grilles, build riser and stage, perhaps a bit of added drywall in the furnace room. Enough to keep me busy for awhile...
Also settling on room decor, including carpet.
And I should be receiving my projector next week. Kris plans to start the calibration tomorrow. Too bad it will be awhile before I can mount it and the screen and have the first WOW visual experience.
Don’t mount the Pj! Everyone says all other construction will Halt hahah
i always mounted it to see. Never stoped me from finishing ;) although I am a year and a half “done” with my theater but still haven’t built the grills for the atmos speakers lol.
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Hooked the lights up until it's time to paint. What a difference!
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Looks great. Are you using fabric panels?
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Yes, but not everywhere. For sure between the columns on each side wall with absorbers. There will also be AT fabric only panels around the screen and on both sides of the rack in the rear. And over the speakers in the columns.
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COVID averted, my friend was back to work here yesterday applying the first coat of finish compound after taping the drywall. Tomorrow he plans to apply the second coat and hopes to have it sanded and ready for paint by early next week.
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So awesome. Getting exciting :)
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I also worked with my neighbor (who does woodworking as a hobby) to build the four columns to cover the side surround speakers. The are built, filled, sanded and will get first coat of primer tomorrow. We'll install them after the room is primed.
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I also worked with my neighbor (who does woodworking as a hobby) to build the four columns to cover the side surround speakers. The are built, filled, sanded and will get first coat of primer tomorrow. We'll install them after the room is primed.
Did you make them out of mdf?
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Only the sides are MDF. I didn't like the process of filling MDF end-grain, so we built them kind of like cabinets with the faces done in select pine. A little more expensive, but not terribly, since MDF is so expensive now. I tried to attach a photo to the previous post, but GoDaddy is censoring me again. I can't figure out why I was able to post with a photo of the drywall finishing, but not the column. I'll keep trying....
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First coat of primer on columns this morning.
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What color will they be?
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Dark Green
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Still working on priming the columns. We found that the primer takes a LONG time to dry to the point that it can be sanded. First coat is on and sanding will probably begin tonight.
In other news, I think I've settled on the room decor. A combination of dark green walls with medium green fabric panels and all black trim. The ceiling will be flat black. The carpet is a commercial grade with and commercial pad that can be glued and not stretched. Being a Spartan alumnus, the green really satisfies my eye!
Also, my projector has still not arrived after calibration by Kris. Seems to be stuck in the Chicago area for the last couple of days. It was shipped from Washington a week ago Tuesday. Hoping I don't get a ransom note from FedEx....
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That’s a really nice color combo. Def not the run of the mill. And love the black trim
Gina be so nice
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I just compared the FedEx tracking with the rail lines and have concluded that it made the majority of the trip by rail. And makes sense why it's been sitting in North Riverside for two days. Tracking now says it will be delivered tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.
I honestly never thought about UPS and FedEx using rail services. I learned something today! :)
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The projector finally made it home this afternoon. It was double boxed (thank you AVS) and the outside box showed signs of the long journey that it made. But the shock sensor wasn't red and the inner box was in good shape except for a small ding on one side that I'm sure hasn't penetrated to the projector. Going to leave it in the box for a few days to acclimate and then will probably check it out more closely.
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The projector finally made it home this afternoon. It was double boxed (thank you AVS) and the outside box showed signs of the long journey that it made. But the shock sensor wasn't red and the inner box was in good shape except for a small ding on one side that I'm sure hasn't penetrated to the projector. Going to leave it in the box for a few days to acclimate and then will probably check it out more closely.
Wait they have a shock sensor on them?
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Yep. AVS thinks of everything!
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Wait they have a shock sensor on them?
Yes we do. 8)
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Backer boxes finished. Good first experience with applying Green Glue. Toughest part was cutting and fitting the drywall in the boxes.
Ceiling speaker boxes
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/ceiling-speaker-boxes-jpg.3182029/)
Ultrathin recessed light fixture boxes:
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/recessed-light-boxes-jpg.3182030/)
Combo boxes. These will accommodate both a speaker and a recessed light placed next to each other in one box .
(https://www.avsforum.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/combo-boxes-jpg.3182031/)
The sealant isn't pretty, but won't be visible. I plan to use the approach of mounting them with supports fastened to the ceiling channels. After doing the small replumbing job, I'll install DD + GG under the two HVAC supply runs and be ready to locate the backer boxes and finish the ceiling insulation. Then on to building one last bulkhead before running speaker wiring. I also need to run a LAN cable from my upstairs modem to the theater. What do you recommend? CAT 5, 6, 7, 8? I'm totally unfamiliar with network cabling and will appreciate your advice. It will be about a 50' run.
Ooh. Love these backer boxes. Right above my home theater is the master bedroom. I'm putting 4 speakers on the ceiling and 4 to 6 puck-style LED lights, so I was looking for the best way to minimize sound leaking through the speakers and LED lights. I will have insulation and QuietRock on the ceiling. Are your backer boxes for just speakers or also for lights?
I just read your above post above. I'm putting CAT 6a on my home theater (one to equipment rack and another to the projector in the ceiling). CAT 5e is sufficient, but CAT 6a is ideal since it allows 10 Gbps connectivity. I have 10Gbps switches between my home theater, main server room, and other rooms. I don't see CAT 7 or later useful.
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Yes, all speakers and the lights that penetrate the soundproof shell will be installed in backer boxes. The lights in the false soffit installed inside the soundproof shell have no backer boxes.
Thanks for your comments on the LAN cables. I ran CAT 8 in the wall from the source to the switch in the HT in an effort to futureproof, if needed. I'll use CAT 6 from the switch to the PJ, processor and to the seating area.
Did I see that you've ordered Seatcraft chairs? I'm leaning toward them as well. The only downside is it appears a several month wait to receive them.
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Columns are primed and ready to install. Drywall is sanded and ready for primer. Priming is scheduled for Tuesday or Wednesday.
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Yes, all speakers and the lights that penetrate the soundproof shell will be installed in backer boxes. The lights in the false soffit installed inside the soundproof shell have no backer boxes.
Thanks for your comments on the LAN cables. I ran CAT 8 in the wall from the source to the switch in the HT in an effort to futureproof, if needed. I'll use CAT 6 from the switch to the PJ, processor and to the seating area.
Did I see that you've ordered Seatcraft chairs? I'm leaning toward them as well. The only downside is it appears a several month wait to receive them.
Yes, I ordered 6 of the Seatcraft Equinox seats. I ordered them a week ago and they shipped the next day. I'm in NY and it took about a week to get from CA to NY. I got white glove delivery so I hope to get the seats by the end of the week. I have a very long driveway, and with the cold, snowy weather I just had to get the white glove service. The normal service just drops the seats in the curb. The trucks won't go into the driveway.
My Home Theater isn't in the drywall stage yet (framing still being worked on). However, I wanted to get the seats to confirm that the riser and screen position will be ideal.
I just saw that 4Seating now has a multi-week wait for the black Seatcraft Equinox. If you like brown, they can ship in 24 hours. I liked the Seatcraft Mantra too but it was too long a wait. theaterseat.com also sells Seatcraft so check them out as well.
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Coming right along!
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I just saw that 4Seating now has a multi-week wait for the black Seatcraft Equinox. If you like brown, they can ship in 24 hours. I liked the Seatcraft Mantra too but it was too long a wait. theaterseat.com also sells Seatcraft so check them out as well.
Brown won't work with the decor planned in my theater. I plan to call them tomorrow and get more detailed information on black chairs. I also plan to buy a second row of cinema rocker chairs and 4Seating has them in the Seatcraft brand that I thought might better match the recliners. We'll see what they have to say.
What was the deciding factor for the Equinox for you? All brands in this price range seem to have very similar features. For me, it's the controls on the Equinox that differentiated it from the rest. Unlike some that have reviewed them, I like the automotive style control (I'm a car guy) and also the memory and home buttons. The rest of the components like leather, recline mechanism, motors, accessories, etc. seem very similar.
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Coming right along!
Thanks Craig! I've designed the riser and am working on the stage design now. I also plan to order finish paint this week so that it's here when my painter is ready for it. And I'll be ordering carpet as well. I guess it's starting to come together!
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What was the deciding factor for the Equinox for you? All brands in this price range seem to have very similar features. For me, it's the controls on the Equinox that differentiated it from the rest. Unlike some that have reviewed them, I like the automotive style control (I'm a car guy) and also the memory and home buttons. The rest of the components like leather, recline mechanism, motors, accessories, etc. seem very similar.
Before Seatcraft, I also liked Octane, but I didn't see any advantages of getting them for a higher price. Then, power headrest and power lumbar narrowed down the choices. I liked the Mantra in terms of aesthetics, but is firmer than the Equinox. Availability was also a deciding factor. You should call up 4Seating since they can give you their opinions on differences that aren't apparent from looking at the specs online.
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Thanks Craig! I've designed the riser and am working on the stage design now. I also plan to order finish paint this week so that it's here when my painter is ready for it. And I'll be ordering carpet as well. I guess it's starting to come together!
For me this is the super fun exciting part but also tedious. Exciting cause all the finishing makes it soooo close and each addition looks awesome. But so tedious cause so much attention to detail takes forever.
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For me this is the super fun exciting part but also tedious. Exciting cause all the finishing makes it soooo close and each addition looks awesome. But so tedious cause so much attention to detail takes forever.
Amen! Hopefully the attention to detail that has partially caused planning for this project to span over 7 years will serve me well at this stage! ;)
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Do any of you use tactile transducers in addition to your subwoofers? Soundshaker or others? I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on Seatcraft chairs that come with the transducers included. Wondering if it would be worth the additional $360 to order the amp required. With four subwoofers in the system and one pair set for LFE, I'm curious if this would add much.
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Do any of you use tactile transducers in addition to your subwoofers? Soundshaker or others? I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on Seatcraft chairs that come with the transducers included. Wondering if it would be worth the additional $360 to order the amp required. With four subwoofers in the system and one pair set for LFE, I'm curious if this would add much.
Crowson transducer are worth every penny if admission. Pricey but again at this point I’d rather add more of them than more subwoofers.
they give you the true traction feeling down to low single digits. And it’s real feeling unlike bass shakers etc
I’d advise against using ones built into seats.
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Thanks for sharing your experience!
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Do any of you use tactile transducers in addition to your subwoofers? Soundshaker or others? I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on Seatcraft chairs that come with the transducers included. Wondering if it would be worth the additional $360 to order the amp required. With four subwoofers in the system and one pair set for LFE, I'm curious if this would add much.
Short story: YMMV.
Long story: In my previous home, I placed Clark Tactile Transducers under each chair. My wife and I really liked them in the beginning, and it was always entertaining when unsuspecting guests first sat on the seats and big bass scenes occurred, causing the seats to vibrate.
However, in the long term, the "gimmicky" factor might wear off.
The challenge is to set the crossover and volume of the transducer amp low enough so that the seats only shake when there is very low frequency content. You don't want the seats to vibrate when someone with a low voice (e.g. James Earl Jones) starts talking. You only want the seats shaking when there's explosions and other low bass content. I dialed the content pretty low (somewhere south of 40 Hz), so most of the time, the transducers complemented the subwoofers. But occasionally, the seats would shake when they shouldn't, making the experience seem less natural. To prevent this unnatural effect entails lowering the crossover and volume even more, but then it would be too low for explosions and car crashes. So it was a challenge dialing the crossover and volume to be "just right".
For now, I didn't order the SoundShaler amp. The seats come with the transducer anyway, so I can add the amp in the future if I need a new toy to play with. Fortunately, the amp is wireless, so there's no need to pre-wire the seats for the SoundShakers.
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That’s exactly why j recommend and ONLY recommend crowsons. All other “shakers” are gimmicky. The crowson doesn’t Shake the seat it actually slightly lifts and lowers the couch/chairs at the exact frequency wobble as a real wave would shake the seat. So no gimmick there
I’ve never heard of a single person return or not like the effect of the crowson
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That’s exactly why j recommend and ONLY recommend crowsons. All other “shakers” are gimmicky. The crowson doesn’t Shake the seat it actually slightly lifts and lowers the couch/chairs at the exact frequency wobble as a real wave would shake the seat. So no gimmick there
I’ve never heard of a single person return or not like the effect of the crowson
Better not top off the wine glasses or they'll spill!
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OK Randman, I just joined you in the Seatcraft club. Talked with Alex at 4Seating.com and confirmed that their next shipment of Equinox chairs is expected at the end of January. I ordered a row of three Equinox for the front row and a row of four auditorium style chairs for the back row on the riser. The HT will be mostly used by my wife and me, so putting more expensive recliners in the back doesn't make economic sense. Plus, it provides more room on the riser.
I'll probably receive the auditorium chairs in a couple of weeks and the Equinox in mid-February. Hope to have the theater ready for them by then. Timing of carpet might be the determining factor. Thanks for the recommendation!
In other news, the theater will be primed this afternoon. Not sure if he'll do two coats or not, but at least the first will be done today.
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OK Randman, I just joined you in the Seatcraft club. Talked with Alex at 4Seating.com and confirmed that their next shipment of Equinox chairs is expected at the end of January. I ordered a row of three Equinox for the front row and a row of four auditorium style chairs for the back row on the riser. The HT will be mostly used by my wife and me, so putting more expensive recliners in the back doesn't make economic sense. Plus, it provides more room on the riser.
I'll probably receive the auditorium chairs in a couple of weeks and the Equinox in mid-February. Hope to have the theater ready for them by then. Timing of carpet might be the determining factor. Thanks for the recommendation!
In other news, the theater will be primed this afternoon. Not sure if he'll do two coats or not, but at least the first will be done today.
Congratulations! I also thought of using a row of three recliners for one row and something else (maybe a couch) for another row. There's 4 people in my family. Most of the time, only 3 people or less are watching at the same time. However, in order to minimize bickering when all 4 people watch at the same time, I just had to get the same seats in the two rows. I even thought of maybe getting massage/heated chairs for the non-center seats so there will be less clamoring for the center seats, but I wasn't convinced the massage/heat features were very good (not that they were available for the Equinox).
Well, the seats made it from the CA to NY in about a week. I contacted the white glove delivery agent (JB Hunt Final Mile). Unfortunately, the earliest that they can schedule the delivery is 2.5 weeks from now. Oh well. My HT room is still being framed, so at least the seats won't consume space in the finished part of my basement. But hope they come on time to help ensure that riser, etc. are built properly.
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I also worked with my neighbor (who does woodworking as a hobby) to build the four columns to cover the side surround speakers. The are built, filled, sanded and will get first coat of primer tomorrow. We'll install them after the room is primed.
I can see some required guest invites, once theater is finished. :)
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Amen Mike! He and his family will be some of the first!
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The theater has been primed and sanded. And a few touchups made. My friend and I will begin building the stage and riser tomorrow. We'll also install the columns on the side walls. Then hoping to begin finish painting early next week. The paint was purchased today, so we're ready with materials!
Medium gray primer was used to provide a good base for the very dark finish colors that will be applied.
I plan to order carpet next week.
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Good idea of tinting the primer gray. Hopefully your finish coat is going to be high-quality Benjamin Moore Paint :D
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Sorry David. It will be high quality Sherwin-Williams paint. I too have had really good experience with Benjamin Moore paint, but my friend that's doing the painting gets a large discount on the top grade S-W paints, so I couldn't pass it up and expect performance to be similar.
Are you a Benjamin Moore employee?
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The carpet is a commercial grade with and commercial pad that can be glued and not stretched.
Is commercial grade less prone to stains? What's the advantage of glued and not stretched?
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Is commercial grade less prone to stains? What's the advantage of glued and not stretched?
My reason for needing glued carpet is that several years ago we had a problem with water entering the basement through cracks in the floor. We live on a very high water table and the house tends to try to float sometimes. So, we had a basement waterproofing system installed that included breaking out the concrete floor all around the outside walls and placing drainage pipe in pea gravel, then covered with concrete. So when framing walls in the basement, they can't be mechanically anchored to the floor around the outside walls or it would create potential entry points for water intrusion. Which means the wall sill plates are glued instead and I don't think it would be wise to test the shear strength of the glue by pressing on the walls with a carpet stretcher. Sorry for the long answer, but it's a bit of a unique carpet application.
The commercial carpet is designed for high traffic wear and stain resistance. Our theater won't be a truly high traffic area, but it's nice to know that carpet should be very durable and stain resistant.
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Sorry David. It will be high quality Sherwin-Williams paint. I too have had really good experience with Benjamin Moore paint, but my friend that's doing the painting gets a large discount on the top grade S-W paints, so I couldn't pass it up and expect performance to be similar.
Are you a Benjamin Moore employee?
Yes I am...28 years. I'm our director of sales for the western region. You now know my secret identity.
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Yes I am...28 years. I'm our director of sales for the western region. You now know my secret identity.
Where’s the discount codes?! 😜 Might be building a house soon if lumber and other commodities cooperate (with a golf sim, reminds me I don’t think you responded to my inquiry on yours in another thread, as well as a dedicated theater space).
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Where’s the discount codes?! 😜 Might be building a house soon if lumber and other commodities cooperate (with a golf sim, reminds me I don’t think you responded to my inquiry on yours in another thread, as well as a dedicated theater space).
I don't remember seeing your question regarding golf sims. Send me a PM and I'll give you my personal gmail account. I have a SkyTrak set up in my garage and love it! (Although I haven't used it lately because it's been so damn cold in the garage :)).
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Got the stage base built today. Moving on the the riser tomorrow and will probably do the decking on both last.
It's a super simple stage design and unusual in that it tapers back on the sides to provide clearance for the door to the hallway on the left. All because the screen wall must be mounted outside the large bulkhead. So nothing special at all, just a little added character.
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The big surprise of the day was I received a shipping notice for the front row recliners. I wasn't expecting them to ship until the end of the month. They must have arrived early. Good thing my lumber pile is shrinking so I'll have room to store them for awhile!
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The big surprise of the day was I received a shipping notice for the front row recliners. I wasn't expecting them to ship until the end of the month. They must have arrived early. Good thing my lumber pile is shrinking so I'll have room to store them for awhile!
Great!!
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Looks awesome
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Got the stage base built today. Moving on the the riser tomorrow and will probably do the decking on both last.
It's a super simple stage design and unusual in that it tapers back on the sides to provide clearance for the door to the hallway on the left. All because the screen wall must be mounted outside the large bulkhead. So nothing special at all, just a little added character.
Nice stage! What's the black material under the stage?
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Roofing felt. Rather than using treated lumber, the felt protects the untreated lumber from moisture in the concrete.
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Made good progress today. The riser has been framed, the surround speaker backer boxes have been installed and the columns that cover them have been installed. Tomorrow I'll put insulation in the stage and we will put the decking on. I'm in the middle of wiring the riser, so can't install the insulation until that's done. Hoping to have it ready for decking on Monday. When that's done, it will be ready for finish paint.
I'm really pleased; it's all starting to come together!
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Man yin are making great progress !!
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Made good progress this week. Wired the riser and installed the conduit for the LV cables. Stuffed both the riser and stage with 10" insulation. Decked both with two layers of 3/4" plywood with Green Glue in between. Caulked the columns, so the room will be ready for color after I refresh the masking.
Taking a short break to attend a funeral in Ohio tomorrow, then back at it this weekend!
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The theater seats were also delivered in the last couple of days. They'll have to hang out in the garage until I have space for them in the basement. And figure a way to move them from the garage to the basement in the snow. I wonder if I still have the old toboggan? :D
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And the final bit of news for today. I test fit a vintage Klipsch Heresy I surround speaker in a column and it fits well. Almost time for a rename...the Ginky Weeds Heritage Theater. Can't wait to get the LaScalas and the rest of the speakers and subwoofers hooked up! Tunes will be great as I finish the build!
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We have color! The Green was painted yesterday evening and I really like it. We plan to paint the ceiling Tricorn Black on Thursday, which will complete paint (except for trim) in the theater. I also decided to paint the flanges on all the recessed lights flat black. Carpet has been ordered and is scheduled for installation on February 21. The theater seats have been moved from the garage to the basement today. A snowstorm is forecast for tomorrow into Thursday and I wanted to get them moved before getting a foot or more of snow to deal with. Bought the lumber for the screen wall today so that can be built and installed before the carpet installation.
Happy with the boxes that have been checked recently!
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Man this build is flying. Great work
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Looks great!
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Walls and ceiling painted. Starting on "assembly". Installed recessed lights and ceiling speakers. With the flat black ceiling and down lights, it's nearly impossible to see speaker grilles in the ceiling. Getting ready for the 9.6.4 experience!
Started electrical finishing. Connected the two dedicated 20A circuits to the panel and wired the outlets behind the rack. Plan to continue wiring tomorrow and then install surround speakers. Might have to detour into setting up a basic stereo system for some work tunes.
Carpet installation is scheduled for February 21.
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Nice! Now the fun part begins, and the countdown to the first movie!
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Yes Craig, the fun has begun. After doing the finish electrical in the room yesterday I dragged out an old processor and 7 channel amp with a CD changer to test the ceiling speakers. And ended up sitting on the riser and just listening for an hour or so. I'm thinking if it sounds this good with just the ceiling speakers, it's sure to wow when the full system is installed and calibrated!
The projector will probably be going up in the next couple of weeks. After carpet install and audio system setup, the fun really begins!
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Home stretch!
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Heresy speakers installed in surround positions and sound good. Can't wait to install the La Scalas and the subs!
Need to install thresholds in the door jambs, and paint the jambs and build the screen wall before carpet. Seems very doable in the next two weeks. Then it will be time for trim.
Equipment rack is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. That will have to wait until the carpet is in, then I can get it all installed and wired.
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Man those are some serious surrounds. You should hang some from the ceiling for atmos. Don’t laugh I’ve seen it done
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Man those are some serious surrounds. You should hang some from the ceiling for atmos. Don’t laugh I’ve seen it done
I actually toyed with that. Thought about trying to fit them between the floor joists. But just wouldn't quite fit and I didn't want speakers hanging from the ceiling, I went with the 8" in-ceiling speakers with the magnetic grills that simply disappear into the black ceiling. They have a little less sensitivity than the Heresys and La Scalas, so I'll probably have to run them a little hotter when I get to setting up the audio.
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I actually toyed with that. Thought about trying to fit them between the floor joists. But just wouldn't quite fit and I didn't want speakers hanging from the ceiling, I went with the 8" in-ceiling speakers with the magnetic grills that simply disappear into the black ceiling. They have a little less sensitivity than the Heresys and La Scalas, so I'll probably have to run them a little hotter when I get to setting up the audio.
those will be fine! i always bump my atmos speakers up +3db from where dirac sets them. i like them a little hot
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I actually toyed with that. Thought about trying to fit them between the floor joists. But just wouldn't quite fit and I didn't want speakers hanging from the ceiling, I went with the 8" in-ceiling speakers with the magnetic grills that simply disappear into the black ceiling. They have a little less sensitivity than the Heresys and La Scalas, so I'll probably have to run them a little hotter when I get to setting up the audio.
In my previous house, I had used all box speakers for my surrounds and Atmos speakers (Paradigm Signature S2 speakers). I had black metal mounts custom made by a local metal fabricator. I had six speakers mounted on the ceiling. They sounded great, but they didn't look that great (well, hard-core home theater enthusiasts may appreciate them, but in general, I think in-ceiling speakers have a cleaner look). So, in my new home, I'm going with all in-ceiling speakers. Much cleaner look.
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So annoyed... my Seatcraft Equinox seats were supposed to arrive last weekend, but the driver didn't want to enter the neighborhood due to not much snow :-X. They were about 1 minute from the house, and maybe 2" of snow only... Now, they said the next delivery won't be for another 3 weeks.... so they'll try to call other folks if they can do earlier.... Doesn't seem reasonable that I get put in the back of the queue instead of the front of the queue...
I was hoping to get the seats to help with designing the riser. My room only has about 18' of depth, so trying to maximize the space for 2 rows). I plan on having a 16" riser, so I'm wondering if the armrest of the front row of seats can be placed directly against the 16" riser or if I need to leave 6" or so between the riser and the back of the armrests.
If you get to open your seats anytime soon, maybe you can take a couple of measurements for me.
In the diagram below, I'm interested in knowing:
1. The length of the red line: This is the vertical distance from the floor to the seat back, where the seat back starts extending behind the armrest.
2. The length of the blue line: This is the horizontal distance from the armrest to the back of the seat.
(https://i.imgur.com/kjwBwV0.png)
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So annoyed... my Seatcraft Equinox seats were supposed to arrive last weekend, but the driver didn't want to enter the neighborhood due to not much snow :-X. They were about 1 minute from the house, and maybe 2" of snow only... Now, they said the next delivery won't be for another 3 weeks.... so they'll try to call other folks if they can do earlier.... Doesn't seem reasonable that I get put in the back of the queue instead of the front of the queue...
I was hoping to get the seats to help with designing the riser. My room only has about 18' of depth, so trying to maximize the space for 2 rows). I plan on having a 16" riser, so I'm wondering if the armrest of the front row of seats can be placed directly against the 16" riser or if I need to leave 6" or so between the riser and the back of the armrests.
If you get to open your seats anytime soon, maybe you can take a couple of measurements for me.
In the diagram below, I'm interested in knowing:
1. The length of the red line: This is the vertical distance from the floor to the seat back, where the seat back starts extending behind the armrest.
2. The length of the blue line: This is the horizontal distance from the armrest to the back of the seat.
(https://i.imgur.com/kjwBwV0.png)
I'll be happy to get some measurements for you. But the seats won't be assembled until after the carpet is installed on February 21. We'll see. If I can free up some space to temporarily assemble one, I might get it done sooner.
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I'll be happy to get some measurements for you. But the seats won't be assembled until after the carpet is installed on February 21. We'll see. If I can free up some space to temporarily assemble one, I might get it done sooner.
Well, I spoke with the delivery folks again yesterday, and I was able to talk to them into moving their delivery from 3 weeks out to this Friday. So, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there won't be a snow issue this Friday. Otherwise, if delivery is further delayed, then I would need the measurements.
Looks like your theater is coming along great! You better start queuing up movies to watch in your Home theater! I've been purchasing Ultra HD DVDs of recent releases that I didn't get to watch in a movie theater. I'll see if I can hold out watching them on my HT instead of watching them in the family room (which has an 85" LED, but I'm holding out for my 2.40:1 screen - before this screen, I've only had 16:9 screens).
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A little more progress today. Stuffed the surround columns with insulation. Now I know why I saved all the scraps!
Then sat down and listened to a CD. This is going to be good!
Also built the components for the screen wall. I primed them tonight and they'll be painted black tomorrow. Then ready for installation.
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Got the screen wall components painted and the goalposts installed. The crossbar is cut to length and waiting to confirm at what height I want to install the screen. After placing a recliner and an auditorium seat on the riser I will determine sight lines and then mount the goal post. And the screen!
Picked up some surplus acoustic panels today. The light colored panels against the back wall are 3/4" rigid fiberglas with fabric covers that I assume are acoustically transparent. I plan to install those in the alcove behind the screen. I'll probably cover them with landscape fabric since they'll be behind the screen to make them black in color. Hidden behind them are six Tectum "shredded wheat" panels that are 2' x 5'. I think I'll put one on each of the doors that are near the stage. Then probably two between the columns on each side wall. Then one on the entry door and one on the rear wall opposite the entry. The bonus, besides them being free, is they are painted flat black. Will fit the decor perfectly! Of course, I'll test them around the room to confirm most beneficial locations.
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Great build! Just a quick note on the pinky fluffy. If you’re looking for the columns to provide broadband absorption probably not an issue but if you wanted to take advantage of lower frequencies, not compressing the insulation is required. Pink fluffy drops off quickly under compression. For what it’s worth, I treated my entire front stage with it hung and saw no appreciable differences in response (more likely due to location than anything else).
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Great build! Just a quick note on the pinky fluffy. If you’re looking for the columns to provide broadband absorption probably not an issue but if you wanted to take advantage of lower frequencies, not compressing the insulation is required. Pink fluffy drops off quickly under compression. For what it’s worth, I treated my entire front stage with it hung and saw no appreciable differences in response (more likely due to location than anything else).
Thanks for the comments on the insulation. Are you saying that if I take some of the insulation out of the columns and leave what's left loose, I should improve low frequency response of the Heresys?
interesting that you found no appreciable difference with the entire front stage treated with insulation. Makes me wonder why it's recommended in seemingly all of the build threads over at AVS Forum. I'm going to use the panels that I have, assuming that they won't impede audio quality. And planned to install some corner bass traps as well. I won't be aware of issues until I get the audio gear placed and hooked up. I'd like to do some basic tweaking of distances, etc. before running Dirac.
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On the front soundstage it’s not to effect the FR but to eliminate reflection. So it eliminates combing effect. Not measurable with FR
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On the front soundstage it’s not to effect the FR but to eliminate reflection. So it eliminates combing effect. Not measurable with FR
Correct, supposed to eliminate SBIR but no appreciable difference in time domain either. My point is spend the effort “in room” if it’s a trade off.
@Ginky Weeds: yes, I’m saying less is more in this case. Allow the insulation to expand naturally and you’ll see more absorption in the lower frequencies (assuming that’s what you want). Some people like more diffusion so…
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Correct, supposed to eliminate SBIR but no appreciable difference in time domain either. My point is spend the effort “in room” if it’s a trade off.
@Ginky Weeds: yes, I’m saying less is more in this case. Allow the insulation to expand naturally and you’ll see more absorption in the lower frequencies (assuming that’s what you want). Some people like more diffusion so…
well it at least fixes the sound bouncing off the rear wall too....i would never NOT do insulation on the screen end of the room
but i know what your saying. not critical
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Theater is looking great! Stage and columns are really nice!
Hey, I got my seats today. Same people who a week earlier didn't want to drive the last couple of minutes into the neighborhood with only 1" to 2" of snow on the ground. This time, they only wanted to put the seats on the driveway. I had to argue with them that I paid for white glove delivery. They said they're only going to drop it off. So, we looked at their work order, which said "room of choice", as expected. They started to argue that a basement doesn't count as "room of choice". Eventually, I think they realized their arguments were hollow, and so they brought the seats in the basement and assembled them. They're in the room right outside my HT (under construction).
So, I took measurements. With a 16" riser, the base of the chair needs to be 2" to 4" from the riser. With a shorter riser (< 14") it would be possible to put the base of the seats right up against the riser and still fully recline.
Anyway, seats are nice. Love the smell of new leather... They are firmer than the old HT seats I have (the old seats are about 20 years old, so that could explain part of the difference in firmness). Power recline, headrest, and lumbar are nice.
One thing that I knew when I ordered the seats: the cup light and the base light are controlled by one switch. It would be nice to be able to leave the cup lights on but the base lights off. The base lights are too bright, particularly for the seats in the front row. I need to determine a way to darken the lights or cover them altogether. Or maybe there's a way to disconnect them without a brute force method.
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Correct, supposed to eliminate SBIR but no appreciable difference in time domain either. My point is spend the effort “in room” if it’s a trade off.
@Ginky Weeds: yes, I’m saying less is more in this case. Allow the insulation to expand naturally and you’ll see more absorption in the lower frequencies (assuming that’s what you want). Some people like more diffusion so…
What's not obvious from the pictures is that the majority of the insulation in each column is totally uncompressed, just sitting in place. There are a few places where I compressed it to fit it into tight places, but it's mostly uncompressed. So maybe I'm getting a little of both diffusion and absorption??
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Theater is looking great! Stage and columns are really nice!
Hey, I got my seats today. Same people who a week earlier didn't want to drive the last couple of minutes into the neighborhood with only 1" to 2" of snow on the ground. This time, they only wanted to put the seats on the driveway. I had to argue with them that I paid for white glove delivery. They said they're only going to drop it off. So, we looked at their work order, which said "room of choice", as expected. They started to argue that a basement doesn't count as "room of choice". Eventually, I think they realized their arguments were hollow, and so they brought the seats in the basement and assembled them. They're in the room right outside my HT (under construction).
So, I took measurements. With a 16" riser, the base of the chair needs to be 2" to 4" from the riser. With a shorter riser (< 14") it would be possible to put the base of the seats right up against the riser and still fully recline.
Anyway, seats are nice. Love the smell of new leather... They are firmer than the old HT seats I have (the old seats are about 20 years old, so that could explain part of the difference in firmness). Power recline, headrest, and lumbar are nice.
One thing that I knew when I ordered the seats: the cup light and the base light are controlled by one switch. It would be nice to be able to leave the cup lights on but the base lights off. The base lights are too bright, particularly for the seats in the front row. I need to determine a way to darken the lights or cover them altogether. Or maybe there's a way to disconnect them without a brute force method.
Happy that you got your seats and were able to do measurements. I have a 10" riser, so sounds like they'll snug right up to it if I want. These are my first HT seats, so I didn't think about desirability of independently switching the cupholder and base lights. My initial thought is I don't want either of them on while watching the screen. But who knows? I might change my mind after I've used them a few times.
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Happy that you got your seats and were able to do measurements. I have a 10" riser, so sounds like they'll snug right up to it if I want. These are my first HT seats, so I didn't think about desirability of independently switching the cupholder and base lights. My initial thought is I don't want either of them on while watching the screen. But who knows? I might change my mind after I've used them a few times.
I was using Carlton Bale's excellent spreadsheet to estimate riser height (https://carltonbale.com/home-theater/home-theater-calculator/). I can probably use a shorter riser (< 16"), but I'm accounting for the possibility that someone might want to sit reclined in the back row, while the seat in front isn't reclined. But, the riser height won't be too forgiving for tall (> 6' 4") people.
I thought I might want the cup holder lighting on, but not the base lighting. I figured it might help prevent spilled drinks. However, I just checked in a completely darkened room, and even just the cup holder light is too bright. So, I guess they'll only be good for momentary usage.
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I thought I might want the cup holder lighting on, but not the base lighting. I figured it might help prevent spilled drinks. However, I just checked in a completely darkened room, and even just the cup holder light is too bright. So, I guess they'll only be good for momentary usage.
That was my thought as well. Thanks for confirming!
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We have color! The Green was painted yesterday evening and I really like it. We plan to paint the ceiling Tricorn Black on Thursday, which will complete paint (except for trim) in the theater. I also decided to paint the flanges on all the recessed lights flat black. Carpet has been ordered and is scheduled for installation on February 21.
I had also chosen Tricorn Black a few weeks ago. I was planning to paint my walls a version of gray, but after looking yesterday, my wife didn't like any of the various colors of gray I had chosen. Leading candidates so far are SW Smoky Blue (7604), or some greenish color. The room outside my HT is Svelte Sage, which we really like, but it's too light for a HT. So I was thinking a darker share of Svelte Sage. The green that you chose looks pretty good. What is the name of the green?
(And David V., I don't have to get SW and can get similar BM paint :-) ).
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What's not obvious from the pictures is that the majority of the insulation in each column is totally uncompressed, just sitting in place. There are a few places where I compressed it to fit it into tight places, but it's mostly uncompressed. So maybe I'm getting a little of both diffusion and absorption??
I think you had me at “stuffed”! Haha
Yeah, if it’s not compressed you’ll get the full impact (depending on the depth).
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I had also chosen Tricorn Black a few weeks ago. I was planning to paint my walls a version of gray, but after looking yesterday, my wife didn't like any of the various colors of gray I had chosen. Leading candidates so far are SW Smoky Blue (7604), or some greenish color. The room outside my HT is Svelte Sage, which we really like, but it's too light for a HT. So I was thinking a darker share of Svelte Sage. The green that you chose looks pretty good. What is the name of the green?
(And David V., I don't have to get SW and can get similar BM paint :-) ).
It's SW 2847 Roycroft Bottle Green
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Yeah, if it’s not compressed you’ll get the full impact (depending on the depth).
The columns are 10" deep and much of the insulation is 10" batt insulation.
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Question on how to treat the area behind the screen.
Referring to the picture of the stage with screen wall above, I plan to install acoustic panels on the back wall, but not sure if all walls need to be treated or not. What about the side walls under the bulkhead? And what about the underside of the bulkhead? Should they all have acoustic treatments or will treating the back wall suffice to avoid reflections and comb filtering? The La Scala LCRs will be installed inside the goal posts and I plan to locate the two Tuba HT subs outboard of the goal posts, somewhere between the back wall and the screen wall. Suggestions appreciated!
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Think I'm ready for carpet on Monday. The solid surface thresholds are installed to provide a flat surface for the automatic door seals that should arrive in a week or so.
Also thinking about how to use the acoustical panels that were given to me. Since I'm going to have speakers and subwoofers both behind the screen and in the rear alcove, I plan to treat them both. I'm having trouble finding linacoustic, at least at a not highway robbery price. Seriously considering wedge foam, ala anechoic chamber treatment. Not quite as absorptive as linacoustic, but way cheaper. I'll probably install the Tectum panels on the two doors and maybe between the columns. Interesting stuff, made from Alder wood fibers and very absorptive. Used mostly in commercial applications. With a fresh coat of black paint, I think they'll add character to the space.
Starting to plan for fabric panels. Hobby Lobby velvet around the screen and probably GOM in the columns.
Lots to do after carpet install, but looking forward to it!!
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Question on how to treat the area behind the screen.
Referring to the picture of the stage with screen wall above, I plan to install acoustic panels on the back wall, but not sure if all walls need to be treated or not. What about the side walls under the bulkhead? And what about the underside of the bulkhead? Should they all have acoustic treatments or will treating the back wall suffice to avoid reflections and comb filtering? The La Scala LCRs will be installed inside the goal posts and I plan to locate the two Tuba HT subs outboard of the goal posts, somewhere between the back wall and the screen wall. Suggestions appreciated!
Just to clarify, for me and others:
1. Will the screen be mounted on the crossbar and goal posts?
2. What is distance between the screen and the back wall?
3. What do you plan on putting right above and below screen?
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The solid surface thresholds are installed to provide a flat surface for the automatic door seals that should arrive in a week or so.
I'm having trouble finding linacoustic, at least at a not highway robbery price.
Can you provide more details on the automatic door seals?
I got my Linacoustic RC from https://www.ferguson.com. Still much cheaper than buying similarly effective materials that are targeted for the audiophile market. For me, I need the Linacoustic for behind and around my screen. But most of the roll will be used for actually putting around HVAC trunks (I assume for HVAC trunk use, it's okay to put around the trunks rather than inside of them. Then, QuietRock will cover the Linacoustic.
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dont waste your time or money on the wedge foam. it does close to zero to treat a room. (at least the consumer product)
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Just to clarify, for me and others:
1. Will the screen be mounted on the crossbar and goal posts?
2. What is distance between the screen and the back wall?
3. What do you plan on putting right above and below screen?
- Yes, the metal frame will be mounted on the crossbar and lay against the goalposts.
- At the screen 61". At the ends of the stage 56". I plan to put fabric panels on each side of the screen to the side walls.
- All fabric panels around the screen. Above, below and to each side. Currently thinking Hobby Lobby Black Velvet fabric. According to tests done by PixelPusher on the AVS Forum, it is as acoustically transparent as any of the screens and backings. I for sure want velvet above and below the velvet covered screen frame and think it would look best on the sides as well.
I'm trying to decide if the LCRs should be close to the screen or close to the back wall. With the relatively large distance I have between the screen and the back wall, I might be better with them close to the back wall to minimize quarter wavelength SBIR. I need to review numbers again before I decide. Any downside to placing the speakers 5 feet behind the screen? I assume a bit of volume reduction, but that can be handled with EQ. And is placement of the subwoofers more or less important than placement of the mains?
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Can you provide more details on the automatic door seals?
I got my Linacoustic RC from https://www.ferguson.com. Still much cheaper than buying similarly effective materials that are targeted for the audiophile market. For me, I need the Linacoustic for behind and around my screen. But most of the roll will be used for actually putting around HVAC trunks (I assume for HVAC trunk use, it's okay to put around the trunks rather than inside of them. Then, QuietRock will cover the Linacoustic.
Bought adjustable door seals and automatic door bottom seals from the Soundproofing Company. Not cheap, but I expect them to be very effective. See attachments.
Thanks for the lead on Ferguson for Linacoustic PC. I'll check it out. I'll need it or some other treatments on the walls behind the screen and the walls in the rear alcove.
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dont waste your time or money on the wedge foam. it does close to zero to treat a room. (at least the consumer product)
Thanks for your insight Brian. I'll rethink that plan....
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- Yes, the metal frame will be mounted on the crossbar and lay against the goalposts.
- At the screen 61". At the ends of the stage 56". I plan to put fabric panels on each side of the screen to the side walls.
- All fabric panels around the screen. Above, below and to each side. Currently thinking Hobby Lobby Black Velvet fabric. According to tests done by PixelPusher on the AVS Forum, it is as acoustically transparent as any of the screens and backings. I for sure want velvet above and below the velvet covered screen frame and think it would look best on the sides as well.
I'm trying to decide if the LCRs should be close to the screen or close to the back wall. With the relatively large distance I have between the screen and the back wall, I might be better with them close to the back wall to minimize quarter wavelength SBIR. I need to review numbers again before I decide. Any downside to placing the speakers 5 feet behind the screen? I assume a bit of volume reduction, but that can be handled with EQ. And is placement of the subwoofers more or less important than placement of the mains?
I think general rule is as close as possible to the screen. Otherwise you get a lot of sound bouncing off the the screen material. Mine are less than 6”
have you thought of a baffle wall?
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Thanks for your insight Brian. I'll rethink that plan....
No worries. Of course I have looked into it. But ended up dropping $400 on linacoustic lol. But it built two theaters so I go my monies worth.
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- All fabric panels around the screen. Above, below and to each side. Currently thinking Hobby Lobby Black Velvet fabric. According to tests done by PixelPusher on the AVS Forum, it is as acoustically transparent as any of the screens and backings. I for sure want velvet above and below the velvet covered screen frame and think it would look best on the sides as well.
I'm trying to decide if the LCRs should be close to the screen or close to the back wall. With the relatively large distance I have between the screen and the back wall, I might be better with them close to the back wall to minimize quarter wavelength SBIR. I need to review numbers again before I decide. Any downside to placing the speakers 5 feet behind the screen? I assume a bit of volume reduction, but that can be handled with EQ. And is placement of the subwoofers more or less important than placement of the mains?
I'm using GOM FR701 around my screen to go on top of Linacoustic. I also got a sample of GOM Felt 9900 (Ebony 3059). It has good light absorption. I think it's acoustically transparent too but best to confirm.
My screen will be on a baffle wall with cutouts for my LCR. Behind my baffle wall is the exterior concrete wall of my basement, already covered with very thick insulation (the kind with plastic over it). The exterior wall is just under 10' from the baffle wall. I was wondering what to do about absorption with this space too. For now, I'll leave it alone. Maybe the existing insulation is good.
Sounds like you'll have the freedom to experiment with moving the speakers closer or further away from the screen. They'll just be mounted so they can be easily moved, I suppose?
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No worries. Of course I have looked into it. But ended up dropping $400 on linacoustic lol. But it built two theaters so I go my monies worth.
I'm only going to build one theater! 8)
Having trouble finding pricing on Linacoustic RC. Saw a 100' roll of 1" for almost $800. Don't want to go there and only need 50'.
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Lol I THOUGHT. I was only building one. Till we had a washing machine mishap 🤦
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I'm using GOM FR701 around my screen to go on top of Linacoustic. I also got a sample of GOM Felt 9900 (Ebony 3059). It has good light absorption. I think it's acoustically transparent too but best to confirm.
My screen will be on a baffle wall with cutouts for my LCR. Behind my baffle wall is the exterior concrete wall of my basement, already covered with very thick insulation (the kind with plastic over it). The exterior wall is just under 10' from the baffle wall. I was wondering what to do about absorption with this space too. For now, I'll leave it alone. Maybe the existing insulation is good.
Sounds like you'll have the freedom to experiment with moving the speakers closer or further away from the screen. They'll just be mounted so they can be easily moved, I suppose?
I've just started reading this piece on SBIR: SBIR Info.
N (http://arqen.com/acoustics-101/speaker-placement-boundary-interference/)eed to absorb it and figure if my situation will be best with the LCR closer to the screen or the back wall.
Hadn't planned on a baffle wall. Not sure how difficult it would be with Klipsch La Scalas due to their size. And I think I'd like the freedom to toe them and don't think that would work well with a baffle wall.
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Lol I THOUGHT. I was only building one. Till we had a washing machine mishap 🤦
Hoping to avoid mishaps, but one never knows....:-X
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I've just started reading this piece on SBIR: SBIR Info.
N (http://arqen.com/acoustics-101/speaker-placement-boundary-interference/)eed to absorb it and figure if my situation will be best with the LCR closer to the screen or the back wall.
Hadn't planned on a baffle wall. Not sure how difficult it would be with Klipsch La Scalas due to their size. And I think I'd like the freedom to toe them and don't think that would work well with a baffle wall.
You would frame the baffle wall around the speakers as if framing around a window. Then stuff w insulation then cover with drywall then cover w linacoustic. I believe.
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Bought adjustable door seals and automatic door bottom seals from the Soundproofing Company. Not cheap, but I expect them to be very effective. See attachments.
Interesting. I saw this in some other forum a while back and didn't quite get how it works. Please take some pictures on your install if you can.
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I'm only going to build one theater! 8)
Having trouble finding pricing on Linacoustic RC. Saw a 100' roll of 1" for almost $800. Don't want to go there and only need 50'.
I paid $263 for 100' 1". Before shipping and tax:
https://www.ferguson.com/product/johns-manville-linacoustic-rc-1-in-duct-liner-fiberglass-r42-j90005512/_/R-1671914
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After reviewing all your comments (thank you!) and doing more reading on SBIR, etc. I've decided to install the rigid fiberglas panels that I have behind the screen and hopefully in the alcove. Then place speakers, look for first reflection points to be treated with the Tectum panels, and then determine if I think I need more.
Is it common practice to treat every square inch of walls behind the screen? Or would it be acceptable to have bare wall exposed above and below the panels, maybe 6-7"? This would result in about 75% coverage of those walls. If it needs to be totally covered, I can cut some of the panels to fill those spaces, but not interested in making more work if not necessary.
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general practice is the entire wall covered, but i doubt there would be a HUGE difference is a little bit is left exposed.
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After reviewing all your comments (thank you!) and doing more reading on SBIR, etc. I've decided to install the rigid fiberglas panels that I have behind the screen and hopefully in the alcove. Then place speakers, look for first reflection points to be treated with the Tectum panels, and then determine if I think I need more.
Is it common practice to treat every square inch of walls behind the screen? Or would it be acceptable to have bare wall exposed above and below the panels, maybe 6-7"? This would result in about 75% coverage of those walls. If it needs to be totally covered, I can cut some of the panels to fill those spaces, but not interested in making more work if not necessary.
Are you going to measure with a mic? If not, I’d suggest it. Can be intimidating at first but learning REW is a great way to maximize your investment!
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Are you going to measure with a mic? If not, I’d suggest it. Can be intimidating at first but learning REW is a great way to maximize your investment!
Yes, I'll be doing measurements. I have a UMIK-1 calibrated by Cross Spectrum, a mic stand and an old version of REW on the laptop. I'll update the software and then get familiar with REW. I understand it can have quite a learning curve, but hope to persevere.
I'll be using the mic and stand for running Dirac later.
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Exciting times here in the Ginky Weeds. Tomorrow is carpet installation day. At the end of the day I'll be on the downhill run to completing the theater. Really excited to see how it gives a finished look and to hear what it does for sound absorption. Expecting to have a big smile on my face by tomorrow night. Pictures will be forthcoming!
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Exciting times here in the Ginky Weeds. Tomorrow is carpet installation day. At the end of the day I'll be on the downhill run to completing the theater. Really excited to see how it gives a finished look and to hear what it does for sound absorption. Expecting to have a big smile on my face by tomorrow night. Pictures will be forthcoming!
Great! I'm also curious how the carpet is installed when you're using an adjustable door stop.
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Great! I'm also curious how the carpet is installed when you're using an adjustable door stop.
Each door jamb has a smooth solid surface threshold installed. So the carpet will be cut to the threshold and the automatic door seal will have a smooth surface to seal against.
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Each door jamb has a smooth solid surface threshold installed. So the carpet will be cut to the threshold and the automatic door seal will have a smooth surface to seal against.
Thanks. I assume the door opening inwards to the carpeted HT should be ok then? Door jamb looks like a good idea.
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Thanks. I assume the door opening inwards to the carpeted HT should be ok then? Door jamb looks like a good idea.
In the case of the door in the picture, yes the door opens into the theater. But that's not a requirement. Since the threshold is cut to the same width as each door jamb, the automatic door bottom will seal no matter which orientation the door is in. I have four such thresholds installed in the theater and hallway. One opens into the theater, one into the furnace room, one into the storage room off the hallway and one between the theater and the hallway. All of the door bottom seals will work just fine.
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Carpet is complete. I'm happy with it and ready to move on to the finishing stage. I moved speakers into position on the stage and riser this evening and will be wiring soon as I assemble equipment in the rack.
Also received the door seals today, so those will be installed soon as well.
The carpet colors are not shown well in the pictures. The main carpet is predominantly green and the stage and riser are black. Not tan and brown...>:(
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Speakers have been placed. Now to load and wire the rack so music can inspire finishing the project!
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Looks outstanding! So exciting :)
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Speakers have been placed. Now to load and wire the rack so music can inspire finishing the project!
Wow. Those speakers are huge!
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Wow. Those speakers are huge!
That they are, but they put out some great audio. Especially impressive considering they're over 40 years old!
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Got all the audio components hooked up and have a big smile on my face. The rack is substantial and is not finished, but is going to work out well.
Next is hanging the screen and projector, then installing the seating followed by trimming it out. Velvet is on order for the wall around the screen. Door seals will be painted soon and installed. Then learning REW and using it to optimize that audio output. Sounds like a few months of work...looking forward to it!
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Got the low voltage cables run for he projector and the seating area. Also assembled and hung the Dreamscreen v7. Hoping to hang the projector tomorrow.
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is your rack IN the theater?
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is your rack IN the theater?
Yes. It's in the alcove behind the seats on the riser. Between the PSA XV15s.
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Yes. It's in the alcove behind the seats on the riser. Between the PSA XV15s.
interesting. was there a reason for it being in the theater?
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interesting. was there a reason for it being in the theater?
Why not have it in the theater? My equipment rack is right behind me. Allows for as short as a 12' HDMI run to my projector.
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Why not have it in the theater? My equipment rack is right behind me. Allows for as short as a 12' HDMI run to my projector.
Lights. Fan noise etc
My rack is outside the theater and my hdmi to my pj is 10’
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interesting. was there a reason for it being in the theater?
My original plan was to locate it outside the theater. But as my plans evolved, I decided to locate it in the back of the theater for two reasons. One, the HDMI run to the projector is 10-15' instead of 40-50'. And second, living in the country, it's impossible to stream video over the Internet, so I'll be making a lot of trips to the disc player. It's a shorter walk within the theater. Old School, I know, but it is what it is.
I know you see three cooling fan units in the rack, but I doubt that I'll be turning them on. The amps don't seem to throw much heat and when I complete the dead vent with the duct fan in it pulling air out of the room, that air will go right through the rack. So I expect the fans will be spaceholders only.
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My original plan was to locate it outside the theater. But as my plans evolved, I decided to locate it in the back of the theater for two reasons. One, the HDMI run to the projector is 10-15' instead of 40-50'. And second, living in the country, it's impossible to stream video over the Internet, so I'll be making a lot of trips to the disc player. It's a shorter walk within the theater. Old School, I know, but it is what it is.
I know you see three cooling fan units in the rack, but I doubt that I'll be turning them on. The amps don't seem to throw much heat and when I complete the dead vent with the duct fan in it pulling air out of the room, that air will go right through the rack. So I expect the fans will be spaceholders only.
I have a couple Aircom T8 fans in my rack - never hear them, even 2 1/2' from my head.
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I have a couple Aircom T8 fans in my rack - never hear them, even 2 1/2' from my head.
Good to know. If I find the Sherbourn fans are too loud and I need direct cooling, I'll check those out.
Thanks!
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My original plan was to locate it outside the theater. But as my plans evolved, I decided to locate it in the back of the theater for two reasons. One, the HDMI run to the projector is 10-15' instead of 40-50'. And second, living in the country, it's impossible to stream video over the Internet, so I'll be making a lot of trips to the disc player. It's a shorter walk within the theater. Old School, I know, but it is what it is.
I know you see three cooling fan units in the rack, but I doubt that I'll be turning them on. The amps don't seem to throw much heat and when I complete the dead vent with the duct fan in it pulling air out of the room, that air will go right through the rack. So I expect the fans will be spaceholders only.
All valid points :)
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So yesterday my neighbor helped me lift the 50 lb. beast of a projector onto its ceiling mount. I got it hooked up and adjusted image location on the screen. Then I decided to check various Blurays with different aspect ratios to see how they appeared on the screen and made some minor tweaks. Then I discovered that I had no center channel audio and found that I hadn't connected the XLR cable from the XMC-2 to the amp. Whoa, did that make a difference?
My friends have asked me what would be the first movie I'd watch when the theater was done. Well, it wasn't a movie. The last aspect ratio I checked was 16x9 and happened to be with the Bluray of the Eagles Farewell Tour Live from Melbourne. And I thought it might be good to sample the audio since I had just added the center channel to the mix. Well, I sampled nearly the entire concert. The projector throws a spectacular image, but the audio was unbelievable. With DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1, I've never heard a more realistic concert audio track or one that is as percussion-forward as this. The 40+ year old Klipsch Heritage speakers performed beautifully and the capability of the Tuba HT DIY subwoofers was more than confirmed. Tight, punchy bass was fabulous. And all I've done in audio setup was to set speaker distances. I haven't gotten the dB meter out yet to set levels and haven't even thought about setting up Dirac. Or experienced a movie with a Dolby Atmos soundtrack. And none of the room treatments have been added. So this is going to be a really fun journey!
I still have lots of finishing to do in the theater and I'll look forward to very high quality work tunes along the way. Still haven't decided on a first movie yet.....
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So yesterday my neighbor helped me lift the 50 lb. beast of a projector onto its ceiling mount. I got it hooked up and adjusted image location on the screen. Then I decided to check various Blurays with different aspect ratios to see how they appeared on the screen and made some minor tweaks. Then I discovered that I had no center channel audio and found that I hadn't connected the XLR cable from the XMC-2 to the amp. Whoa, did that make a difference?
My friends have asked me what would be the first movie I'd watch when the theater was done. Well, it wasn't a movie. The last aspect ratio I checked was 16x9 and happened to be with the Bluray of the Eagles Farewell Tour Live from Melbourne. And I thought it might be good to sample the audio since I had just added the center channel to the mix. Well, I sampled nearly the entire concert. The projector throws a spectacular image, but the audio was unbelievable. With DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1, I've never heard a more realistic concert audio track or one that is as percussion-forward as this. The 40+ year old Klipsch Heritage speakers performed beautifully and the capability of the Tuba HT DIY subwoofers was more than confirmed. Tight, punchy bass was fabulous. And all I've done in audio setup was to set speaker distances. I haven't gotten the dB meter out yet to set levels and haven't even thought about setting up Dirac. Or experienced a movie with a Dolby Atmos soundtrack. And none of the room treatments have been added. So this is going to be a really fun journey!
I still have lots of finishing to do in the theater and I'll look forward to very high quality work tunes along the way. Still haven't decided on a first movie yet.....
That's a great concert and a very good choice for your first viewing. Glad everything is coming together for you.
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i would def be sneaking in a movie or two if i were you after a long day of building wall panels etc. :) but thats how i did it hahah
congrats
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That's a great concert and a very good choice for your first viewing. Glad everything is coming together for you.
Thanks David. Being a movie reviewer, do you have a recommendation on first movie to watch?
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i would def be sneaking in a movie or two if i were you after a long day of building wall panels etc. :) but thats how i did it hahah
congrats
Yep, I'll definitely be watching some movies in the evenings!
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Thanks David. Being a movie reviewer, do you have a recommendation on first movie to watch?
Dune or No Time to Die. Both look and sound excellent.
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Dune or No Time to Die. Both look and sound excellent.
I also have these same 2 movies in my to-watch queue for when my HT is complete. I've always had 16:9 screen in the past and it's the first time I'm getting a 2.40:1. Also in my queue: American Underdog, Ghostbusters: Afterlife, and Encanto (although this isn't Cinemascope).
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I also have these same 2 movies in my to-watch queue for when my HT is complete. I've always had 16:9 screen in the past and it's the first time I'm getting a 2.40:1. Also in my queue: American Underdog, Ghostbusters: Afterlife, and Encanto (although this isn't Cinemascope).
All great choices.
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Just ordered No Time to Die 4K UHD Bluray. It will arrive tomorrow.
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Just ordered No Time to Die 4K UHD Bluray. It will arrive tomorrow.
You won't regret it. Great movie and the 4K presentation is outstanding (both audio and video).
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Getting closer to the finish line. Wood trim has been installed. Second row seats have been installed. First of three automatic door seals has been painted and installed. Aligned the four subwoofers with REW yesterday and set levels in the processor. Having friends over tonight to watch No Time to Die, the first 'public" viewing. Planning to run Dirac soon. That will leave building and upholstering the fabric panels and installing the other two door seals. Then it's play time!
I've listened to quite a bit of music and will definitely enjoy that aspect of the theater. And I've watched a few movies that have wowed as well. The only 4K Atmos movie I've seen so far is Spiderman Homecoming. Very impressive. I love the image from the JVC projector!
A great weekend to all!
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So happy you're at the finish line. This has been a blast to read!
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Awesome!! Theater looks great!! Like those doors :). Speaking of Spider Man, I pre-ordered Spider Man: No Way Home. Release date is mid April, I believe. I'm hoping my HT will be done by then.
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Not a ton of progress to report this weekend. I spent most of the week getting familiar with REW and then Dirac and running scans. The audio needs more tweaking, but work well on movies using a couple of manual tweaks to the Dirac equalization. More scanning and tweaking in my future!
I plan to fit and paint the remaining two door seals today. I played with placing the acoustic panels behind the front and rear speakers, but REW scans indicated absolutely no changes. So I'm obviously doing something wrong with REW. Need to dig deeper on that. Finally decided to use GOM FR701 fabric in all my fabric panels and ordered it Thursday night. It will arrive today. I thought I preferred acoustically transparent stretch velvet for the panels surrounding the screen, but just couldn't get comfortable with the degree of wrinkles in the locally available materials and in my ability to remove them. So plan to start building frames and upholstering the panels next week.
Found a problem with the fiber optic HDMI cable that was feeding the source from the processer to the projector. It started dropping video regularly. All the drops went away after substituting some cheap generic HDMI cables. Mike G. shared the info on problem and troubleshooting with TechLogix and they will replace the cable.
And in the process of setting up for the REW and Dirac scans I found that I have problems with my laptop PC. The HDMI audio stopped working and troubleshooting hasn't found the problem. It's about 5 years old and has a broken hinge, so it's time to upgrade. Did some web shopping yesterday and plan to make a decision and order one today.
With spring arriving tomorrow I want to get the construction phase of the theater wrapped up as the outdoors will be calling my name soon.
A blessed weekend to all!
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Don’t be fooled just by FR in REW the treatments are for timing and getting rid of reflections (aka slap echo) which isn’t shown in the frequency sweeps. It’s shown in the timing and decay graphs.
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Don’t be fooled just by FR in REW the treatments are for timing and getting rid of reflections (aka slap echo) which isn’t shown in the frequency sweeps. It’s shown in the timing and decay graphs.
Waterfall plots?
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Waterfall plots?
Waterfall is mostly for subs FR. You want to use the impulse response for reflections
It’s the ETC plots i believe
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https://gearspace.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/808952-how-do-i-find-my-rooms-reflections-impulse-graph.html
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Waterfall is mostly for subs FR. You want to use the impulse response for reflections
It’s the ETC plots i believe
Thanks. My lack of knowledge on all things audio measurement is showing!
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https://gearspace.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/808952-how-do-i-find-my-rooms-reflections-impulse-graph.html
Looks like a great resource. I'll need a clear head to absorb and understand the concept before diving in.
Thanks!
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Looks like a great resource. I'll need a clear head to absorb and understand the concept before diving in.
Thanks!
No problem. :) it’s a steep curve but once you learn it. It’s super easy
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Well, I think it's time to call it finished. Still have lots of calibrating to do with the audio, but the room itself is finished. Feels good to have it done and I'm really enjoying watching movies and TV on the big screen. I can honestly say that both the Klipsch Heritage audio and JVC video have exceeded my expectations. And the professional calibration of the projector by Kris Deering was one of my smarter decisions.
Thanks for all the advice and positive comments along the way!
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Congratulations!! Looks great! I'm hoping my HT will be done at the end of the month (well it's never really done, right)?
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Congratulations.
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Outstanding. Congrats. Thanks for taking us along with you!
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Congrats as well. Very nice!