Banned at AVSForum

[DavidHir]

That's exactly what I was seeing (when my aperture was working, that is! ), and what led to my eventually just turning it off.  It made me much more conscious of the equipment, and not the movie.

But after it's fixed, I'll probably give it another try, and see if the benefits outweigh the negatives, especially if the DI works a bit more smoothly than it did before.

It's interesting because I thought it was the scene of the movie or the photography - but it wasn't.  This just happened last night in particular after I was praising the fades (which are nice though).

Also, I realized something else; my manual iris right now is almost all of the way closed down for SDR which is what I have been watching lately (holding off on HDR titles until Chad B comes out next week).   The more the manual iris is closed down, the less difference one is likely to see between it and the auto 2 as I understand it.  The more the manual is open, the more the potential for variance compared to the auto iris.  On the other forum, check out Mozen's thread about the iris functioning....quite interesting.  I'm going to experiment with it more.

[Dylan Seeger]

No dynamic iris is ideal or perfect. They will all, no matter the brand, be visible on occasion (or often if it's a bad one). On the eshift units, as I don't know about the RS4500, I often notice some micro-flicker. This has been an "issue" since the first generation of JVCs with auto-irises. I took these videos a few years back when I had the X500, but this issue still happens on the 2018 models. You'll notice brightness flicker:

What the issue looks like on screen:

What the iris actually does to cause it:


It seems like there is something in the algorithm that's sensitive to certain APL changes and the iris just can't make up it's mind on where to set the iris position. Or maybe it's hardware related where the iris device itself is extremely sensitive to voltage differences and the voltage regulator has coarse control over voltage and it's freaking the iris mechanism out a bit until it get the voltage right and this is what's causing the flicker. I don't know, it could be either. This is my only gripe with the DI implementation. I put issue in quotes before because this issue only happens on occasion and I don't think it's particularly bad. Overall it's one of the best DI implementations i've seen and I've seen a LOT of them.

[DLCPhoto]

It's interesting because I thought it was the scene of the movie or the photography - but it wasn't.  This just happened last night in particular after I was praising the fades (which are nice though).

Also, I realized something else; my manual iris right now is almost all of the way closed down for SDR which is what I have been watching lately (holding off on HDR titles until Chad B comes out next week).   The more the manual iris is closed down, the less difference one is likely to see between it and the auto 2 as I understand it.  The more the manual is open, the more the potential for variance compared to the auto iris.  On the other forum, check out Mozen's thread about the iris functioning....quite interesting.  I'm going to experiment with it more.

I know a lot more about photography than I do about projectors, so tend to think in those terms.

A typical camera will have sensors to detect light levels in a given scene, and it has a variety of algorithms to calculate an exposure based on those readings (matrix, center-weighted, spot, etc.).  My impression with DI is just as Dylan Seeger indicates, that small, essentially imperceptible fluctuations in brightness for certain 'key' areas (as defined by the algorithm in use) cause the aperture adjustment to tip one way or the other.

And since the iris adjustments are 'quantum' in nature, rather than providing a continuous adjustment, and possibly with some time lag as well, the scene will show corresponding visible changes in brightness.

For me, I didn't notice any obvious difference in black level during dark scenes, or fade to black, and only saw the iris pumping when it was present in other scenes.  So it seemed I was getting the side effects only, and none of the desirable primary effect, with DI, so I ended up turning it off.

I hope that this may have been due to a mechanical problem with my iris from the beginning, so maybe my experience will be better the next time around.

[Baseball0618]

Roxie and his sidekick Mori are taking a disliking to Kris in the VW885 thread.  Rather comical!

[AVSCraig]

Roxie and his sidekick Mori are taking a disliking to Kris in the VW885 thread.  Rather comical!

The messenger seems to get killed on that forum frequently. I need to head back over with some popcorn.....

[Dylan Seeger]

roxiedog is an idiot. I really hope no one (other than his gang of know-nothings) falls for his childish attempt at making Kris's comments less true than they actually are. Kris not only has both projectors there, but he actually knows what he's talking about and how to properly measure and evaluate the projectors. I always find it funny when Sony fanboys think because they started an "owners" thread that no one other than an owner can comment, especially when (untrue) shade is being thrown at another brand. How deluded do you need to be to convince yourself that issues are not real? Even if the price is cheaper in Europe, 15,000 Euros is a lot for such issues to still be present. As Kris point out, if no one complains about them then they'll never get fixed. Are people like Roxiedog naive enough to think that Sony cares enough about something that they'll just fix it if no one is complaining about it? They act as if think Sony can do no harm.

[Kris Deering]

Yeah, it is unfortunate. I'm finding more and more that it just isn't worth it to post anything on AVS anymore. For what little good it does it is met with overwhelming crap from posters that really don't have a clue about anything. From Ruined to Roxie to JoeRod. It has completely sucked out any enjoyment for me. Here I thought I was actually providing useful data on the 885 thread to help clear up why people were seeing what they were seeing and then it turns into a downward spiral of accusations and BS. There is a reason that 99.9% of reviewers just don't post on forums. I might be one of them very soon.

[AVSCraig]

Yeah, it is unfortunate. I'm finding more and more that it just isn't worth it to post anything on AVS anymore. For what little good it does it is met with overwhelming crap from posters that really don't have a clue about anything. From Ruined to Roxie to JoeRod. It has completely sucked out any enjoyment for me. Here I thought I was actually providing useful data on the 885 thread to help clear up why people were seeing what they were seeing and then it turns into a downward spiral of accusations and BS. There is a reason that 99.9% of reviewers just don't post on forums. I might be one of them very soon.

You are more than welcome to post information here. We will keep things civil. The more information, the better. It's just a matter of helping folks make an informed decision regarding projector purchases.  We have no reason to not help everyone get the best out of whatever projector they buy - regardless of brand. 

[Andreas21]

Yeah, it is unfortunate. I'm finding more and more that it just isn't worth it to post anything on AVS anymore. For what little good it does it is met with overwhelming crap from posters that really don't have a clue about anything. From Ruined to Roxie to JoeRod. It has completely sucked out any enjoyment for me. Here I thought I was actually providing useful data on the 885 thread to help clear up why people were seeing what they were seeing and then it turns into a downward spiral of accusations and BS. There is a reason that 99.9% of reviewers just don't post on forums. I might be one of them very soon.

Roxiedog13, Joerod and Mori are so clearly Sony fanboys and they will never admit any of the weaknesses, I really did a big LOL when Roxie came up with the point that the VW885 is selling like hotcakes. That is really a good argument of how good the projector is. I am actually happy I am banned at the other forum so I dont have to spend time arguing with those idiots.

It is so clear the three people mentioned in this post is totally clueless when it comes to AV and it is a disgrace they are allowed to keep it up at a so called Science forum.

[DavidHir]

No dynamic iris is ideal or perfect. They will all, no matter the brand, be visible on occasion (or often if it's a bad one). On the eshift units, as I don't know about the RS4500, I often notice some micro-flicker. This has been an "issue" since the first generation of JVCs with auto-irises. I took these videos a few years back when I had the X500, but this issue still happens on the 2018 models. You'll notice brightness flicker:

What the issue looks like on screen:

This is exactly what I saw the other night. 

[Andreas21]

This is exactly what I saw the other night.

The flicker is much less noticeable on the dual iris models. On my RS420 I see it all the time, on my Cineversum BW2 (RS520) I see it very rearly.

[Dylan Seeger]

Yeah, it is unfortunate. I'm finding more and more that it just isn't worth it to post anything on AVS anymore. For what little good it does it is met with overwhelming crap from posters that really don't have a clue about anything. From Ruined to Roxie to JoeRod. It has completely sucked out any enjoyment for me. Here I thought I was actually providing useful data on the 885 thread to help clear up why people were seeing what they were seeing and then it turns into a downward spiral of accusations and BS. There is a reason that 99.9% of reviewers just don't post on forums. I might be one of them very soon.

I was banned for life for squabbling with these guys. Honestly though, it's been nice not having to deal with all that nonsense. The only issue is that when people like yourself don't post, all the purposeful misinformation that these guys spout gets presented as fact. No one is there to call out the BS.

I agree with you in that the Sony projectors are excellent overall. Part of the problem with Sony fanboys is that they have a hard time accepting any issues at all with the projectors they own. If they'd just accept the issues, the arguments wouldn't go on for as long as they do. I also think them arguing about the issues does them a disservice because the longer the arguments go on the more the issues (no matter how small or big) get more attention and it makes them seem bigger than they really are.
 
I don't think you're going to have an issue posting here. No one here is going to give you the same troubles. I'm always interested in hearing your thoughts, especially when they confirm what I'm also seeing and experiencing.

[Andreas21]

I was banned for life for squabbling with these guys. Honestly though, it's been nice not having to deal with all that nonsense. The only issue is that when people like yourself don't post, all the purposeful misinformation that these guys spout gets presented as fact. No one is there to call out the BS.

I don't think you're going to have an issue posting here. No one here is going to give you the same troubles. I'm always interested in hearing your thoughts, especially when they confirm what I'm also seeing and experiencing.

I think discussions is healthy and I have learned a lot after having discussions with both you, @Kris Deering and others, discussing with people like Roxiedog is not something anyone learns from and it only ends up in the wrong people getting banned. The way thing are developing at the other forum now is that the misinfo soon will become "facts" and then that forum is a total disaster.

[AVSMike]

Yeah, it is unfortunate. I'm finding more and more that it just isn't worth it to post anything on AVS anymore. For what little good it does it is met with overwhelming crap from posters that really don't have a clue about anything. From Ruined to Roxie to JoeRod. It has completely sucked out any enjoyment for me. Here I thought I was actually providing useful data on the 885 thread to help clear up why people were seeing what they were seeing and then it turns into a downward spiral of accusations and BS. There is a reason that 99.9% of reviewers just don't post on forums. I might be one of them very soon.

You are very much welcome here.

[DonH58]

Would it be possible to rename or modify the title of this thread to reflect the projector dialogue? There is a lot of useful, interesting discussion but it is lost under the title "Banned at AVSForum"...

IMO! - Don