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MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen

Barry

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MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« on: April 18, 2023, 04:13:21 PM »
 I am currently very happy with my JVC 4100 projector.  But the installers, configurers and a few others suggest that I should look into the MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen. Does anyone have experiences with these models?  What do they do exactly and do they make the images even better? They are very expensive and I am just curious about them.

In the old days these things hsed to upscale images. But I already have that. 
McIntosh MX170 Controller: Projector JVC DLA-RS4100; Screen: Stuart StudioTek130: Amps: McIntosh MC-611(center),MC1.25KW (lf&rt);  Krell S-1500 Atmos/Surround; 4kDVD Panasonic UB9000; Speakers: Revel Ultima Salon 2, Ultima Voice 2, (Surround) W 990, Atmos C763L; Subs: SVS SB-13 Ultras;  Cable: 4K Verizon; Broadcast: Mediasonic HW-150PVR; Wiring: Shunyata; Apple TV,

Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2023, 05:45:39 PM »
I am currently very happy with my JVC 4100 projector.  But the installers, configurers and a few others suggest that I should look into the MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen. Does anyone have experiences with these models?  What do they do exactly and do they make the images even better? They are very expensive and I am just curious about them.

In the old days these things hsed to upscale images. But I already have that.
Barry,

Yes, they will make the image better but also add a lot of complexity to your system. Do you find your image too dark or too bright when watching HDR? If not, I wouldn't spend the money. Yes, you will get a better image, but you're spending thousands of dollars for an incremental increase in image quality. 

Now, if you had a 2.35:1 (or 2.40:1) screen, then the auto aspect ratio is a nice feature, but again, very expensive to get this feature when the zoom method works pretty fast on these projectors. 
Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer
Sound & Vision Magazine

AVSCraig

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Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2023, 07:15:08 PM »
My Lumagen has better dynamic tone mapping, auto aspect ratio detection and sharpening, upscaling etc. I can never be without it at this point. Never. 
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:00am - 4:30pm Pacific 
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We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
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AVSCraig

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Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2023, 07:16:34 PM »
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:00am - 4:30pm Pacific 
www.avscience.com  craig@avscience.com
We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
Twitter - @AVS_Craig Sacramento CA area

bmoney

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Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2023, 08:50:23 PM »
Yes lumagen is worth every penny. It’s constantly updated and upgraded at no cost and it will come along as projectors change. Picture quality is unmatched. Aspect switching is top notch. It will never leave my theater. It’s expensive. But a buy once cry once type thing. 
SadieMax 2,0 Build thread

Nad t758v3 
7.4.4 diysoundgroup 1099's (3) 
Volt 6 (8 ) 
18" SI subs (4) 
diy 130" 2.40 spandex screen
minidsp 2x4HD
JVC rs600
Lumagen radiance pro 4242
Nvidia shield pro
Emby NAS media player

bmoney

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Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2023, 08:51:28 PM »
Also to note about adding complexity. Once it’s dialed. You forget about it. I haven’t touched any settings on mine in about two years 
SadieMax 2,0 Build thread

Nad t758v3 
7.4.4 diysoundgroup 1099's (3) 
Volt 6 (8 ) 
18" SI subs (4) 
diy 130" 2.40 spandex screen
minidsp 2x4HD
JVC rs600
Lumagen radiance pro 4242
Nvidia shield pro
Emby NAS media player

Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2023, 09:59:21 PM »
I went with the madVR Envy, and found a significant improvement over the JVC's DTM. The way I phrase it is that the JVC does a good job with most content, while the Envy does a superb job with all content. The differences with the Lumagen in this category are likely subtle, and probably wouldn't steer someone toward one or the other in any major way.

As others point out, if you have a 2.35:1 to 2.40:1 screen (as I do), the Aspect Ratio and Subtitle management is of huge importance. At least it was to me. In this area, my personal take is that the Envy has an edge here.

Envy vs Lumagen can be a hot topic, and no need to dive into this here. Both are good products, each with its own advocates. Feel free to PM me to explore further if you're interested.

Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2023, 10:00:47 PM »
I don't disagree with all of the points that you two make, but the law of diminishing returns plays into this as well. I agree that it will provide a superior picture and has some nice features (especially if one has a scape screen), but the price of entry is quite high. Plus in Barry's case, he'll need to hire someone to set it up for him. Kris Deering will do it for him for a fee. 
Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer
Sound & Vision Magazine

bmoney

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Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2023, 06:48:15 AM »
That fee is cheap relatively speaking. It’s another $400. But setting it up himself is quite easy. Just have to get used to the menu system

There is a ton of info on it all. Now if time is a factor I get it. But then just pay for Kris to do it :)
SadieMax 2,0 Build thread

Nad t758v3 
7.4.4 diysoundgroup 1099's (3) 
Volt 6 (8 ) 
18" SI subs (4) 
diy 130" 2.40 spandex screen
minidsp 2x4HD
JVC rs600
Lumagen radiance pro 4242
Nvidia shield pro
Emby NAS media player

bmoney

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Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2023, 06:49:24 AM »
Also even though I think envy is a great easy to use product it’s extremely over priced. The lumagen can be found used for $3k and even new around $4200. Whereas the envy is $9k+
SadieMax 2,0 Build thread

Nad t758v3 
7.4.4 diysoundgroup 1099's (3) 
Volt 6 (8 ) 
18" SI subs (4) 
diy 130" 2.40 spandex screen
minidsp 2x4HD
JVC rs600
Lumagen radiance pro 4242
Nvidia shield pro
Emby NAS media player

AVSCraig

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    • AV Science, Inc
Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2023, 11:04:05 AM »
I don't disagree with all of the points that you two make, but the law of diminishing returns plays into this as well. I agree that it will provide a superior picture and has some nice features (especially if one has a scape screen), but the price of entry is quite high. Plus in Barry's case, he'll need to hire someone to set it up for him. Kris Deering will do it for him for a fee.
Sure, but I can make the same points about Trinnov and Kscape. And wine - I have a pre-order of $100.00+ a bottle Grand Cru Burgundy just arrived at the wine store I ordered it from. :)
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:00am - 4:30pm Pacific 
www.avscience.com  craig@avscience.com
We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
Twitter - @AVS_Craig Sacramento CA area

Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2023, 12:29:13 PM »
Sure, but I can make the same points about Trinnov and Kscape. And wine - I have a pre-order of $100.00+ a bottle Grand Cru Burgundy just arrived at the wine store I ordered it from. :)
I don't disagree. 
Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer
Sound & Vision Magazine

Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2023, 03:04:19 PM »
Also even though I think envy is a great easy to use product it’s extremely over priced. The lumagen can be found used for $3k and even new around $4200. Whereas the envy is $9k+
It's my understanding that the higher end Lumagen models are in the $9k range as well, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Many high-end devices have high-end price tags. It's a question of whether you need and want the features it provides. Geometry Correction is perhaps a good example, to correct the barrel distortion associated with the DCR lens. If somebody wants that, the Envy Extreme is the only device that will provide that.

And while I don't yet know whether the upcoming AI-based Motion Enhancement will prove to be a must-have feature (although I am encouraged by what I've seen so far), this would also only be available in the Extreme.

There are other features that are simpler and more automatic in the Envy, easier to understand and configure.

So I'm not sure it's reasonable to just call a given device over-priced without considering the wider context of features. There are areas where they're similar, and overlap, but others were they definitely diverge. And while higher price doesn't automatically translate to a better product, in at least some situations it does.

I do wish all of these products were cheaper, but this is an extremely niche area, with no offsetting volume to contain prices. Each person needs to look at what they need, want, and can afford, and choose the product that best meets their situation.

And to Dave's point about setup, this is typically included with the Envy, and can also be handled remotely if needed.

AVSCraig

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Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2023, 03:29:43 PM »
It's my understanding that the higher end Lumagen models are in the $9k range as well, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Many high-end devices have high-end price tags. It's a question of whether you need and want the features it provides. Geometry Correction is perhaps a good example, to correct the barrel distortion associated with the DCR lens. If somebody wants that, the Envy Extreme is the only device that will provide that.

And while I don't yet know whether the upcoming AI-based Motion Enhancement will prove to be a must-have feature (although I am encouraged by what I've seen so far), this would also only be available in the Extreme.

There are other features that are simpler and more automatic in the Envy, easier to understand and configure.

So I'm not sure it's reasonable to just call a given device over-priced without considering the wider context of features. There are areas where they're similar, and overlap, but others were they definitely diverge. And while higher price doesn't automatically translate to a better product, in at least some situations it does.

I do wish all of these products were cheaper, but this is an extremely niche area, with no offsetting volume to contain prices. Each person needs to look at what they need, want, and can afford, and choose the product that best meets their situation.

And to Dave's point about setup, this is typically included with the Envy, and can also be handled remotely if needed.
The more expensive Lumagen doesn't have a better picture or features other than supposedly better audio. Most people are best served with the base model 4242. 
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:00am - 4:30pm Pacific 
www.avscience.com  craig@avscience.com
We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
Twitter - @AVS_Craig Sacramento CA area

bmoney

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Re: MadVR Envy MK2 and the Lumagen
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2023, 09:41:42 PM »
Correct the 4242 matches everythjng the envy can do and at half the price. I don’t know about you. But $5000 is a good price to learn how to setup things myself. And k did

So yes imho The envy is very overpriced since it has no performance benefits over the lumagen. Just a prettier interface. Is that worth $5000? That is in the eye of the the wallet holder
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 12:14:07 PM by bmoney »
SadieMax 2,0 Build thread

Nad t758v3 
7.4.4 diysoundgroup 1099's (3) 
Volt 6 (8 ) 
18" SI subs (4) 
diy 130" 2.40 spandex screen
minidsp 2x4HD
JVC rs600
Lumagen radiance pro 4242
Nvidia shield pro
Emby NAS media player

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