AVS Discussions
  Go Down

New Sony laser 4K projectors

New Sony laser 4K projectors
« on: April 26, 2022, 11:54:52 AM »
Projector Central article is up - we all knew Sony would have to respond to JVC's great NZ lineup, and looks like they did in a big way at first glance. $6K for the entry level laser 4K VPL-XW5000ES! Going to be fun to see the comparisons between the Epson LS-12000 and the Sony. The step up models include the ARC-F lens at $12K so it looks like a big jump for that. No HDR10+ is a mild surprise, wonder if that's potentially a firmware upgrade down the road?

Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2022, 12:00:37 PM »
Looks like a UK preview dropped today along with the reveal. Not the ideal review circumstances of course as it's more of a Sony demo but some more info and hints at performance.

https://www.cameralabs.com/sony-vpl-xw5000es-4k-laser-projector-review/

AVSCraig

  • *****
  • 4105
  • Home Theater Lover / Sales / Advice
    • AV Science, Inc
Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2022, 01:00:56 PM »
Projector Central article is up - we all knew Sony would have to respond to JVC's great NZ lineup, and looks like they did in a big way at first glance. $6K for the entry level laser 4K VPL-XW5000ES! Going to be fun to see the comparisons between the Epson LS-12000 and the Sony. The step up models include the ARC-F lens at $12K so it looks like a big jump for that. No HDR10+ is a mild surprise, wonder if that's potentially a firmware upgrade down the road?
No dynamic tone mapping for HDR, 3840x2160 resolution - so hopefully one doesn't have a DCR lens already. The XW5000 has a manual lens. No HDMI 2.1, which wouldn't bother me as I don't game on a projector.
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:00am - 4:30pm Pacific 
www.avscience.com  craig@avscience.com
We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
Twitter - @AVS_Craig Sacramento CA area

Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2022, 01:08:15 PM »
No dynamic tone mapping for HDR, 3840x2160 resolution - so hopefully one doesn't have a DCR lens already. The XW5000 has a manual lens. No HDMI 2.1, which wouldn't bother me as I don't game on a projector.
I'm confused on the DTM - the PC writeup says no DTM "for HDR10+" but doesn't clarify if it's just lack for that particular HDR. This is from another writeup and sounds like it's there in some form:


Dynamic HDR Enhancer – Due to the processing power of the X1™ Ultimate for projector, the contrast in combination with the new laser output control on both models is further enhanced, making the HDR bright scenes brighter and the dark scenes darker. The newly launched object based HDR remaster allows for more powerful real-time picture processing that analyzes objects of each frame and makes for unmatched HDR imagery for any content.

The other compromises are sort of expected in some way at this price point. The XW6000 of course adds the ARC-F lens at just $12K compared to the $40K it took previously, so there are wins at each level.

AVSCraig

  • *****
  • 4105
  • Home Theater Lover / Sales / Advice
    • AV Science, Inc
Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2022, 04:32:22 PM »
I'm confused on the DTM - the PC writeup says no DTM "for HDR10+" but doesn't clarify if it's just lack for that particular HDR. This is from another writeup and sounds like it's there in some form:


Dynamic HDR Enhancer – Due to the processing power of the X1™ Ultimate for projector, the contrast in combination with the new laser output control on both models is further enhanced, making the HDR bright scenes brighter and the dark scenes darker. The newly launched object based HDR remaster allows for more powerful real-time picture processing that analyzes objects of each frame and makes for unmatched HDR imagery for any content.

The other compromises are sort of expected in some way at this price point. The XW6000 of course adds the ARC-F lens at just $12K compared to the $40K it took previously, so there are wins at each level.
The Sony rep specifically said during a dealer sneak peek webinar last week that these projectors do not have active tone mapping.
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:00am - 4:30pm Pacific 
www.avscience.com  craig@avscience.com
We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
Twitter - @AVS_Craig Sacramento CA area

AVSCraig

  • *****
  • 4105
  • Home Theater Lover / Sales / Advice
    • AV Science, Inc
Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2022, 04:53:15 PM »
In other words, that's a bit of marketing spin.
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:00am - 4:30pm Pacific 
www.avscience.com  craig@avscience.com
We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
Twitter - @AVS_Craig Sacramento CA area

Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2022, 07:44:03 PM »
Thanks for clarifying that, Craig. Good to know. Disappointing but the only direct competition at the price, the Epson, doesn't have it either so maybe not a big surprise. Obviously it'll be interesting to see how the XW5000 compares to the LS12000, and it's good to see competition increasing at least a little in that range.

Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2022, 12:06:26 PM »
Another missing feature on the XW5000 that some will care about - 3D. It wasn't clear at first as I saw conflicting claims but looking at the datasheet pdf, it has a schematic of the connector panel and there is NOT a 3D sync output. That does show up on the 6000/7000 datasheets. 

Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2022, 01:55:50 PM »
Projector Reviews has a review of the XW7000ES up.

With respect to HDR and dynamic tone mapping or active tone mapping, whatever you want to call it, Phil Jones doesn't seem to be in agreement with Craig that it's just marketing. Here are some snips:


Quote
Of all the benefits of the X1 Ultimate Processor, the most notable is the Dynamic HDR Enhancer feature which dramatically improves the look of HDR content. Thanks to the Dynamic HDR Enhancer, the XW7000ES can analyze HDR content scene by scene for precise dynamic tone mapping of HDR10 content.

HDR analysis and tone mapping might be a new concept for a lot of projector manufacturers, but Sony began blazing the trail back in 2017 when their 4K TV lineup introduced the X1 Processor. HDR scenes are brighter, with richer colors and a better black level.



Quote
In addition, the Dynamic HDR Enhancer feature utilizes frame-by-frame HDR tone mapping to deliver respectable full-screen brightness while still displaying a good amount of highlight detail.

The factory HDR Contrast setting of 50 was a little high resulting in some unnecessary highlight clipping, especially when viewing HDR content mastered above 4000nits. Once I reduced the setting to about 45, I rarely felt a need to make any additional manual tone mapping adjustments when viewing during HDR.

...

Even though the XW7000ES is utilizing frame-by-frame tone mapping, sometimes brighter highlights are occasionally clipped. This is not a sign that the XW7000ES is not dynamically tone mapping. Sony believes this is necessary to keep most of the image on the screen as close to the director’s intent as possible. Remember, you can always adjust the HDR Contrast setting to restore any clipped highlight information.


AVSCraig

  • *****
  • 4105
  • Home Theater Lover / Sales / Advice
    • AV Science, Inc
Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2022, 02:34:56 PM »
Projector Reviews has a review of the XW7000ES up.

With respect to HDR and dynamic tone mapping or active tone mapping, whatever you want to call it, Phil Jones doesn't seem to be in agreement with Craig that it's just marketing. Here are some snips:
I quoted Sony themselves. Phil Jones is spewing Sony's confusing marketing BS. There is nothing new processing wise regarding HDR tone mapping that I have read over the outgoing Sony models, and they did not have active frame by frame dynamic tone mapping. Also, damned if I could find any contrast measurements in that review. It's a puff piece light on measurements.
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:00am - 4:30pm Pacific 
www.avscience.com  craig@avscience.com
We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
Twitter - @AVS_Craig Sacramento CA area

AVSCraig

  • *****
  • 4105
  • Home Theater Lover / Sales / Advice
    • AV Science, Inc
Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2022, 02:39:05 PM »
Also, Phil Jones used to work for Sony. I'll wait for Kris Deering, Nigel of Absolute Ultimate and Dylan Seeger to review these.
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:00am - 4:30pm Pacific 
www.avscience.com  craig@avscience.com
We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
Twitter - @AVS_Craig Sacramento CA area

Re: New Sony laser 4K projectors
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2022, 02:50:51 PM »
LOL... 100% agreed we definitely need to see the thorough reviews that will come later on. That review is somewhere between a "preview" and a real review.

With respect to "nothing new processing wise", isn't extending the X1 Ultimate through the lineup, something new? That was only used in the 1025 before, from what I have seen? I'm not 100% clear on what abilities it brings over what the 915 had, for example. But it does seem to amp up the available processing power to give more granularity to image analysis.

  Go Up
 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2022, SimplePortal