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BenQ LK990 First Impressions

Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #180 on: May 22, 2020, 03:02:51 PM »
Excellent. Take your time getting familiar with the setup. And make sure to download the latest firmware if it doesn't have it already !
It came loaded with a very recent firmware, but I plan on installing the latest. 
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Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #181 on: May 22, 2020, 05:33:10 PM »
Yes, purpose built HTPC with an RTX2070 graphics card. It's a holiday weekend here and I have some plans with family, so I won't be able to set up the Lumagen 100% until next week.
Great....  very interested to hear your thoughts .

Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #182 on: May 25, 2020, 05:37:09 PM »
You talk like contrast is nothing. You know that ISF does not share that opinion.

Every year, after CEDIA someone always asks what was the best looking projector at CEDIA. For the last several years the answer has been an LCOS projector. CEDIA has DLP's there that are brighter, higher contrast and if cost is any indicator, better lenses and yet every year, they do not get the nod for best image at the show. Where DLP does get the nod is in light output.

The LK990 throws a sharp image, but LCOS is pretty good in that area also. Take a look here where Projector Central tested resolution of the RS2000 to the BenQ HT9060.https://www.projectorcentral.com/Projector-Resolution-Shootout-Part-2.htm

The LK990 may be sharper than the HT9060, but at this point we are splitting hairs, since everyone readily admits the HT9060 is very sharp. So you are trying to use light output as the big differentiator and I am using contrast. I believe ISF is on my side.

If you mention the HT9060 with regards to comparing what I am saying and doing one more time, I think I am going to scream, haha! ;);D

The LK990 is so much more than just more sharpness than the HT9060!  The black levels and contrast were clearly better and more evident.

"Light Output" is certainly not the only differentiator between them or the other techs.  I just watched Aquaman again last night using my 10,000 nit Max Luminance (nits) Dolby Vision Data Block string, Min Luminance .0005, BT2020 gamut and the low APL scenes were astonishing to see, like the scene where he and his dad just leave the bar and are driving home when the tidal wave hits.  The dark images were just incredible, with absolutely no hint of the DLP milky haze people think would be there.  Even the colors popped with such low luminance, which is one of the standout things you'll notice with this.  All of the underwater scenes, especially the final battle scenes were extraordinary too!

So answer me this question......has anyone anywhere at CEDIA, CES, INFOCOMM, IFA, etc. EVER ONCE done what I am doing on a BenQ LK990 or other possible equivalent laser phosphor or RGB laser DLP using a Max Luminance 10,000 nit Dolby Vision Data Block Custom String, .0005 nit min luminance custom string, using a BT2020 gamut DV setting with a tone mapping HDR Brightness signal curve of -2, contrast 48-50, brightness 46, wherein the first 100 nits of the signal being projected is essentially tone map (compression) free, which also then allows for the remainder of the nits available (~75-100 nits) to be used for specular highlights, which is apparently the only part of the signal now that needs compression/tone mapping when done in this manner?  This results in spectacular images, as I see here every single day, whether everyone else's uninformed, untried and untested opinion says it does or not.

All it takes is someone else with a BenQ LK990, Sony X800M2, HDFury Vertex2/DIVA/Maestro with all these settings which are super easy to replicate (as compared to my prior HV settings, which are a completely different concept) and put in.  Good initial tests would be using Aquaman as I just mentioned and Mortal Engines, among many other Dolby Vision titles.

@woofer, I see you posting here.  Does your friend still have the LK990, or was that an LK970 or am I mistaken?

Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #183 on: May 25, 2020, 05:40:59 PM »
Kris Deering really dialed back the brightness on my RS4500, but improved the shadow detail and darker scenes substantially. Even guests remarked how it looked much better. Of course the Lumagen's dynamic tone mapping helps substantially. At least on my screen, I don't need the shear brightness anymore.
So you'd prefer to do the same on your HDR flat panels as well, which have the headroom to not have to do that so much and are across the board agreed upon are better at HDR than projectors due to their limited lumen capabilities, among other things?

Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #184 on: May 25, 2020, 05:44:39 PM »
Another thing worth noting is that some of these dynamic tonemapping solutions have a highlight recovery feature. What this does is restore detail within the image that would normally be lost to clipping if just a static tone map were used so you don't lose out on picture information that's supposed to be present in the image. Honestly, I don't see too many drawbacks to dynamic tonemapping on projectors.
There doesn't appear to be a need for highlight recovering how I do it apparently, since I can set it to see all the highlights and even shadow details with great clarity and no clipping or crushing.  Maybe if you had more headroom available, all this tone mapping/compression wouldn't be as needed?

BTW, LLDV/Dolby Vision isn't using static tone mapping, if that's what you were referring to towards me?

Why is there so much off topic discussion of things like the Radiance Pro in this LK990 thread, when none of the people discussing it are using it on an LK990, or even an LK970 for that matter?

Happy Memorial Day everyone!  Please don't forget who this holiday is for, all those veteran heroes who paid the ultimate sacrifice to keep us all free!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 05:47:59 PM by HarperVision »

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Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #185 on: May 25, 2020, 07:33:32 PM »
So you'd prefer to do the same on your HDR flat panels as well, which have the headroom to not have to do that so much and are across the board agreed upon are better at HDR than projectors due to their limited lumen capabilities, among other things?
I pretty much hate watching movies on TV's - flat panels or otherwise. I've been watching a projector of one sort or another for 17 years. At Cedia I just walk on by the flat panels - all of them. I don't like the look of watching a piece of glass. Too small too. So no - I have no HDR flat panel. Just a 1080p model for watching the news. That I bought at CostCo. 
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Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #186 on: May 25, 2020, 07:43:14 PM »
There doesn't appear to be a need for highlight recovering how I do it apparently, since I can set it to see all the highlights and even shadow details with great clarity and no clipping or crushing.  Maybe if you had more headroom available, all this tone mapping/compression wouldn't be as needed?

BTW, LLDV/Dolby Vision isn't using static tone mapping, if that's what you were referring to towards me?

Why is there so much off topic discussion of things like the Radiance Pro in this LK990 thread, when none of the people discussing it are using it on an LK990, or even an LK970 for that matter?

Happy Memorial Day everyone!  Please don't forget who this holiday is for, all those veteran heroes who paid the ultimate sacrifice to keep us all free!

No, I wasn't referring to your LLDV hack as a static tonemap. However, I did misspeak. Highlights are recovered from compression, not clipping. 

As far as the Lumagen goes, I could ask you the same question. Why are you in an LK990 thread talking about an HDFury product? People use all kinds of video processors and players for their display devices. The Lumagen is one of them. 
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Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #187 on: May 25, 2020, 11:12:58 PM »
I pretty much hate watching movies on TV's - flat panels or otherwise. I've been watching a projector of one sort or another for 17 years. At Cedia I just walk on by the flat panels - all of them. I don't like the look of watching a piece of glass. Too small too. So no - I have no HDR flat panel. Just a 1080p model for watching the news. That I bought at CostCo.
Well that’s not really where I was going with it, but ok. 

Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #188 on: May 25, 2020, 11:16:27 PM »
No, I wasn't referring to your LLDV hack as a static tonemap. However, I did misspeak. Highlights are recovered from compression, not clipping.

As far as the Lumagen goes, I could ask you the same question. Why are you in an LK990 thread talking about an HDFury product? People use all kinds of video processors and players for their display devices. The Lumagen is one of them.
The difference is, I‘m using an HDFury on an actual LK990 and discussing the benefits of such a pairing.  You’re not using a Lumagen on an LK990, the subject of this thread. 

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Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #189 on: May 26, 2020, 01:12:19 AM »


@woofer, I see you posting here.  Does your friend still have the LK990, or was that an LK970 or am I mistaken?
Dave , It was the LK970 i had that i sold to a friend..

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Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #190 on: May 26, 2020, 05:48:21 AM »
If you mention the HT9060 with regards to comparing what I am saying and doing one more time, I think I am going to scream, haha! ;);D

The LK990 is so much more than just more sharpness than the HT9060!  The black levels and contrast were clearly better and more evident.

"Light Output" is certainly not the only differentiator between them or the other techs.  I just watched Aquaman again last night using my 10,000 nit Max Luminance (nits) Dolby Vision Data Block string, Min Luminance .0005, BT2020 gamut and the low APL scenes were astonishing to see, like the scene where he and his dad just leave the bar and are driving home when the tidal wave hits.  The dark images were just incredible, with absolutely no hint of the DLP milky haze people think would be there.  Even the colors popped with such low luminance, which is one of the standout things you'll notice with this.  All of the underwater scenes, especially the final battle scenes were extraordinary too!

So answer me this question......has anyone anywhere at CEDIA, CES, INFOCOMM, IFA, etc. EVER ONCE done what I am doing on a BenQ LK990 or other possible equivalent laser phosphor or RGB laser DLP using a Max Luminance 10,000 nit Dolby Vision Data Block Custom String, .0005 nit min luminance custom string, using a BT2020 gamut DV setting with a tone mapping HDR Brightness signal curve of -2, contrast 48-50, brightness 46, wherein the first 100 nits of the signal being projected is essentially tone map (compression) free, which also then allows for the remainder of the nits available (~75-100 nits) to be used for specular highlights, which is apparently the only part of the signal now that needs compression/tone mapping when done in this manner?  This results in spectacular images, as I see here every single day, whether everyone else's uninformed, untried and untested opinion says it does or not.

All it takes is someone else with a BenQ LK990, Sony X800M2, HDFury Vertex2/DIVA/Maestro with all these settings which are super easy to replicate (as compared to my prior HV settings, which are a completely different concept) and put in.  Good initial tests would be using Aquaman as I just mentioned and Mortal Engines, among many other Dolby Vision titles.

@woofer, I see you posting here.  Does your friend still have the LK990, or was that an LK970 or am I mistaken?
Except that you gave your earlier settings the same hype and several people compared your earlier settings against a high native contrast projector and every single one of them came to the same conclusion. 

You keep saying everyone is wrong and you are right and yet you have never made the comparison.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 05:51:57 AM by AVSMike »
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Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #191 on: May 26, 2020, 10:00:33 AM »
Honestly, it was no contest as to which threw the better image all around. I have serious reservations that DV into the LK990 would make enough of a difference to dramatically change the image quality. The  LK990 owner sent it back right after we concluded the shootout. I would be more than happy to attend a shootout if another one were to occur. I'd even loan my own NX9 if necessary.

The Lk990 was nice with brighter video content, but the vast majority of Hollywood video is very dark overall, with HDR content actually having a lower percent ADL most of the time compared to SDR video content. People have analyzed the two and have drawn that conclusion.

Normally high nit output is only necessary for small specular highlights within an image, which is why tonemapping isn't that big of a deal as far as image quality is concerned. Its very rare to find HDR video that requires the entire display to be at a high nit level.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 12:16:56 PM by Dylan Seeger »
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Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #192 on: May 26, 2020, 02:15:09 PM »
I pretty much hate watching movies on TV's - flat panels or otherwise. I've been watching a projector of one sort or another for 17 years. At Cedia I just walk on by the flat panels - all of them. I don't like the look of watching a piece of glass. Too small too. So no - I have no HDR flat panel. Just a 1080p model for watching the news. That I bought at CostCo.

I post over at the Blu-ray website.  It's funny, because 99% of those guys are using 65" flat panels.  They think front projection is garbage because they have never seen an excellent projector in a good room.  They have no idea how good it can look.  They are used to low quality projectors often seen in schools, business, or bars/restaurants.

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Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #193 on: May 26, 2020, 04:26:49 PM »
I post over at the Blu-ray website.  It's funny, because 99% of those guys are using 65" flat panels.  They think front projection is garbage because they have never seen an excellent projector in a good room.  They have no idea how good it can look.  They are used to low quality projectors often seen in schools, business, or bars/restaurants.

I'm converting folks on Twitter with screen shots to think projection rather than flat panels. I just like the look much better myself. 

So you'd prefer to do the same on your HDR flat panels ". 

Not MY HDR flat panel. I don't own one.
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Re: BenQ LK990 First Impressions
« Reply #194 on: May 26, 2020, 04:34:16 PM »
Except that you gave your earlier settings the same hype and several people compared your earlier settings against a high native contrast projector and every single one of them came to the same conclusion.

You keep saying everyone is wrong and you are right and yet you have never made the comparison.
It has been already shown that the settings used were not my finalized settings and some if not all weren't even the ones used for the LK990.  They tried to use the ones for the LK970, which are so far off if used on the LK990 that it isn't even funny.

You keep saying I am wrong and you are right and yet you and everyone here replying has never made the comparison or even tried what it is I am saying I am doing, let alone on an LK990!

And btw, I had high contrast projectors here at the same time (VW885ES, and before you say it, yes it had an issue and was sent back, but its black/contrast performace wasn't it.) and within a very recent period of having the LK990 and have seen them many, many times for 30+ years here in this very room and many other venues and theaters.  I know what good black levels, contrast and a great video image looks like, so you can preach at me all you want, but what you say is still incorrect.  I also have an LG OLED here to compare scenes to. 

The real question is......have you actually seen an LK990 with these settings, or even the old ones I used?  If not, you actually are the one who is not qualified to comment with any first hand knowledge here.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 05:40:56 PM by HarperVision »

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