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JVC Autocal Software V11 calibration for 2019 RS1000/RS2000/RS3000/NX5/NX7/NX9

Manni

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It looks like one of the bugs in V1.0 might not have been fixed. [EDIT: doesn't seem to be the case after testing with SDR WCG calibration].

I tried to power the PJ off and remeasure after a restart, and the color cal (gamut and white point) results were significantly better.

Gamma and color temp was still off though, and significantly. 100% white is within 1dE, which is fine, but the color temp is very off below that. This Spyder5 used to give me good results with the rs500, so I don't think it's the culprit.

I'll make an attempt with my SDR WCG calibration (the baseline I used with madVR) to see if I get better results if I power off in between each autocal session.

If that's part of the issue and if JVC haven't corrected this, it's a bit disappointing.

There doesn't to be an issue with 4K input, one of the reported bugs in the 1.00 was that you needed a 1080p input for it to work.

I'll update the thread later if I get any interesting results with my SDR WCG calibration.

I did the SDR one selecting the new option to replicate gamma into all the other calibrations, but it's hard to know if it works or not given the poor results. I'll use individual this time.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 05:09:43 PM by Manni »

Manni

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I'm happier with the SDR WCG calibration. Maybe the Autocal struggles at -12 / 65nits with the SDR rec-709 calibration, and is happier with the iris fully open? I did check with the Rec-709 calibration that none of the gamma steps readings were zero, and none were so not sure why it struggled as the meter was positioned optimally for that iris setting.

With my SDR WCG calibration, I get a minor gain in peak brightness / contrast and improvements across the range, including a minor increase in gamut cover (from 97% to 98% of P3), though red at 100% sat is still slightly undersaturated, which likely reflects a limitation of the native gamut. There doesn't seem to be any downsides, near black seems fine, the black floor isn't raised, but I haven't had the time to do a visual check with actual content.

I still struggle to get the i1pro2 into the positioning box, even with the iris fully open, I have no idea why because I can't really bring it closer to the screen without making it read its own shadow. But I'm happy with the results.

It's late so I'll post more tomorrow, but here are the colorchecker SG screenshots before autocal, after a gamma A/C with the Spyder 5 Pro and a color Autocal with the i1pro2, and after a madVR lightning LUT (101 points, less than 10 minutes).

I think that for this calibration, the Autocal results are very decent, with a max dE of 2.2 and an average of 0.9, to compare with a max of 5.9 and an average of 1.6 before the Autocal (which isn't that bad by the way, but clearly shows the need for calibration).

I didn't do any manual adjustment, not even 100% white to D65. That way you can see out of the box measurements at 165 hours, after the JVC Autocal and after madVR, without any manual interaction. I could improve things marginally but I thought it would be more interesting to post the "raw" results, to get an idea of what each stage brings.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 05:04:25 AM by Manni »

Manni

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I've posted some advice for preparation in the basic section that should help those eager to get started to hit the ground running. I attached some screenshots and pictures to help with meter positioning.

I've added at the end of the post some advanced tips, especially for those using another software and reference meters to check a calibration and for those profiling a colorimeter to a reference spectro.

I've also updated the FAQ to reflect a couple of issues, especially regarding using the i1pro2 calibration at the beginning of a session. Make sure you read the FAQ if you hit any problem before posting. This, alongside with reading the JVC Autocal manual, should cover the most common issues and I'll keep updating it as we make progress.

Finally, I've added an important warning in the first post, so make sure you read it before doing anything else :)

Hope this helps, I'll try to post more over the week-end, hopefully to cover gamma and color calibration.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 05:02:20 AM by Manni »

bobof

One thing to keep in mind if you want to try with the i1pro2, it has to be on its plate when you select it, and you have to press the button right away to do a white calibration. Otherwise, the software will tell you it can't find the meter.

That's not ideal, it should first detect the meter, and then ask for a white calibration.

Also, with the i1pro2 about two feet from the screen and reading 65nits, it was not possible to get the meter within the box. I'll try with my HDR calibration, I might get better results with the iris fully open.
It's a shame they've not improved the meter setup for the i1pro2 when moving to V11.  It was all a bit "afterthought" in its implementation in V10.

It seems V11 behaves in the same ways with the i1pro2 as V10.  By far the most annoying behaviour for me is that you have to re-connect and re-calibrate the meter every time you go into the calibration mode, so if you've just done one calibration you have to get it back down off the tripod, put in back on the plate, and then back on the tripod again.  If you're dextrous you can just about hold the meter onto the calibration tile with the tile rotated a few degrees without taking it off the tripod.

I think the positioning box for the i1pro2 readings from screen is completely bogus and serves no purpose.  Measuring off screen without the diffuser you can't change the position of the meter within the box on screen - as you bring the meter closer to the screen it measures a smaller area of the screen, cancelling each other out.  Any change in the position witnessed within JVC autocal will just be due to the meter reading either a different area of the screen with more or less variation across it, or measuring the screen at a slightly different angle.  The only way to significantly affect the on screen "position" of the meter when facing the screen is just increase the light output somehow, which is kind of pointless as you're wanting to calibrate at a given iris setting and into a particular "slot" in the projector.

@Dominic Chan had a cute way of getting higher off screen readings by measuring using the i1pro(2)(?) off a white surface that was closer to the projector.  That way the projector is set up "correctly", you're just moving the screen closer to concentrate the light.  You'd really want that surface to be a screen sample if possible; though Dominic was using it mostly to overcome his lack of a diffuser for gamma measurements so I think he was just using any white surface.

Having said that, for just the colour autocal I'm not totally sure why it would make much difference.  Even at 65 nits peak white you should get quite reasonable quality colour measures even for blue, so it might point more towards the maths in either autocal or the projector not being great, or the projector not being linear enough for the simple algorithms the colour autocal uses to work well.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 09:35:41 AM by bobof »

Manni

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It's a shame they've not improved the meter setup for the i1pro2 when moving to V11.  It was all a bit "afterthought" in its implementation in V10.

It seems V11 behaves in the same ways with the i1pro2 as V10.  By far the most annoying behaviour for me is that you have to re-connect and re-calibrate the meter every time you go into the calibration mode, so if you've just done one calibration you have to get it back down off the tripod, put in back on the plate, and then back on the tripod again.  If you're dextrous you can just about hold the meter onto the calibration tile with the tile rotated a few degrees without taking it off the tripod.

I think the positioning box for the i1pro2 readings from screen is completely bogus and serves no purpose.  Measuring off screen without the diffuser you can't change the position of the meter within the box on screen - as you bring the meter closer to the screen it measures a smaller area of the screen, cancelling each other out.  Any change in the position witnessed within JVC autocal will just be due to the meter reading either a different area of the screen with more or less variation across it, or measuring the screen at a slightly different angle.  The only way to significantly affect the on screen "position" of the meter when facing the screen is just increase the light output somehow, which is kind of pointless as you're wanting to calibrate at a given iris setting and into a particular "slot" in the projector.

@Dominic Chan had a cute way of getting higher off screen readings by measuring using the i1pro(2)(?) off a white surface that was closer to the projector.  That way the projector is set up "correctly", you're just moving the screen closer to concentrate the light.  You'd really want that surface to be a screen sample if possible; though Dominic was using it mostly to overcome his lack of a diffuser for gamma measurements so I think he was just using any white surface.

Having said that, for just the colour autocal I'm not totally sure why it would make much difference.  Even at 65 nits peak white you should get quite reasonable quality colour measures even for blue, so it might point more towards the maths in either autocal or the projector not being great, or the projector not being linear enough for the simple algorithms the colour autocal uses to work well.

Thanks for your feedback, I'm glad to see that your observations re the i1pro2 in relation to the positioning are the same as mine. 8)

Regarding the need to recalibrate the i1pro before every calibration (I agree it's cumbersome as it is implemented), I use the following trick (undocumented as my list is already too long, but I'll add it if you find it useful): I keep the i1pro on its tripod in position, I start Teamviewer on my iPad so as not to have to move my calibration laptop, and with one hand I hold the calibration tile against the i1pro2, with the other I select the i1pro2 on the autocal (on the iPad) and quickly press the measuring button. That way, at least I don't have to move the i1pro off its tripod and lose all the profiles etc. I use Teamviewer as well to monitor progress and control the software distantly. As long as a meter action isn't needed, that allows me to get more sunlight and watch less patterns :)

The SDR WCG calibration was OK even if not great, so I'll give the SDR rec-709 calibration another try when I can.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 11:47:12 AM by Manni »

Manni

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The following additional sections are now live:
Basic: Calibration
Basic: Results and optional verification with another software
Advanced:
Using a  3D LUT for Reference Calibration after the Autocal

It's a bit of a brain dump, which I wrote fairly quickly after my initial attempts yesterday. It's likely to still contain typos and a few factual errors, so if you spot any please let me know either by PM or in the thread.

I added quite a few measurements, I'll try to add more later.

I just wanted to complete the basic section so that everyone can have a go and let us know their results. The full index is in the second post here.

Of course I'll update the thread when/if I post anything new or make any significant changes, but it might be a while as  I need to catch up with work.

Good luck with the Autocal everyone :)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 10:34:47 AM by Manni »

bobof

Regarding the need to recalibrate the i1pro before every calibration (I agree it's cumbersome as it is implemented), I use the following trick (undocumented as my list is already too long, but I'll add it if you find it useful): I keep the i1pro on its tripod in position, I start Teamviewer on my iPad so as not to have to move my calibration laptop, and with one hand I hold the calibration tile against the i1pro2, with the other I select the i1pro2 on the autocal (on the iPad) and quickly press the measuring button. That way, at least I don't have to move the i1pro off its tripod and lose all the profiles etc. I use Teamviewer as well to monitor progress and control the software distantly. As long as a meter action isn't needed, that allows me to get more sunlight and watch less patterns :)
That's what I meant by if you're dextrous; it sounds like you use the same approach I do when I've used the I1pro2 in that way.  It's a bit of a handful (at least for me with my micro-hands lol) to to grip the tile onto the meter (plus for this setup my meter is often up in the air fairly high up), and I'm always just a little bit sceptical that it is a particularly good approach (though I do it myself) because the i1pro2 does to wavelength calibration off the tile using the green LED, there is both a chance of the tile not being completely flat, and also some scope for light from the PJ to leak around as the calibration happens.

If the JVC autocal utility worked a bit more sensibly - just doing one calibration on the meter on demand - it wouldn't be so tempting to take these short cuts, it's the case of a bad workflow promoting slightly risky behaviour.  When I'm trying to do stuff properly in other SW I usually shove the meter and tile under a black piece of cloth for the calibration measure, or at least press the hide button on the PJ to make the room darker.

Manni

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That's what I meant by if you're dextrous; it sounds like you use the same approach I do when I've used the I1pro2 in that way.  It's a bit of a handful (at least for me with my micro-hands lol) to to grip the tile onto the meter (plus for this setup my meter is often up in the air fairly high up), and I'm always just a little bit sceptical that it is a particularly good approach (though I do it myself) because the i1pro2 does to wavelength calibration off the tile using the green LED, there is both a chance of the tile not being completely flat, and also some scope for light from the PJ to leak around as the calibration happens.

If the JVC autocal utility worked a bit more sensibly - just doing one calibration on the meter on demand - it wouldn't be so tempting to take these short cuts, it's the case of a bad workflow promoting slightly risky behaviour.  When I'm trying to do stuff properly in other SW I usually shove the meter and tile under a black piece of cloth for the calibration measure, or at least press the hide button on the PJ to make the room darker.
Nah, if you make sure that the tile is completely flat against the i1pro2 (which does require pressure on opposite sides) there is zero risk of light contamination. I've done this for years, without any issue. If there is any light, the software detects it and tells you the calibration is invalid.

But I do have very large hands, and the ipro2 is at a convenient height here :).

I agree 100% that it's not ideal and there are many ways to do it better, but I was just offering possible workarounds.

I also think that JVCs approach, while clearly an afterthought, is also to make sure that the meter has been calibrated before each calibration. Otherwise they would have to use a timer or some other way to enforce a calibration within the theoretical 240 minutes window (in reality, it starts drifting much faster than that). They probably wouldn't want to risk the user forgetting to do a cal.

The JVC development team is very small. I think we are very lucky to have, by far, the best free OEM calibration tool offered on any other consumer projector (possibly consumer panel, I don't use them).

As long as the software is usable, I'd rather have them concentrate on providing the best results, or improving important things such as the positioning window for the i1pro2, rather than giving them a hard time for ergonomics. When the software is 100% functional, then we can try to get them to improve interface stuff.

But if you think about it, what they are offering is already very good.

Manni

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@Bobof: I've added the i1pro2 improvements request at the end of the second section in the feedback to JVC/suggested improvements list. Please let me know if that suits you.

Once we've gathered enough feedback from everyone, I plan to ask Mike to forward this list to JVC. :)

bobof

@Bobof: I've added the i1pro2 improvements request at the end of the second section in the feedback to JVC/suggested improvements list. Please let me know if that suits you.

Once we've gathered enough feedback from everyone, I plan to ask Mike to forward this list to JVC. :)
Looks good to me; I know it is an implementation detail but if they considered just adding the hooks necessary to do readings via ArgyllCMS they'd get "free" (they should really come to an arrangement with Graeme) updated meter support, with K10A, i1d3, Jeti spectro, etc.  I think he's already working on supporting the new Spyder X.  Doesn't help with the Discus but I've pretty much concluded that it's a nice tool that's never going to get mass-market appeal.

Agree with all the previous points (as I say, I resort to the calibration tile death grip myself)... My suspicion of the technique comes from having had a few failed calibration attempts doing this, which then just raised the spectre of doubt.  But there's no doubt I'll carry on doing it that way, so I'm obviously not that bothered...! :)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 12:19:06 PM by bobof »

Manni

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Argyll support is a great idea, though unlikely to be implemented. I’ll add it to the list where I mention wider meter support. I’ll also add the possibility to use the new remote control mode in Lightspace/Colorspace as an alternative, but I can’t see these agreeing to help competition that way (Argyll more likely than Light Illusion anyway). Thanks. [EDIT:done!]
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 02:16:32 PM by Manni »

...

When I switched the PJ back on, the iris made a weird noise (hopefully a one-off) and I now have the new f/w and Autocal installed (see screenshots).

I had the same thing happen,  but also some other perhaps USB related issues; maybe order of procedure?

First USB I used was detected, and once I started the update, the three lights flashed in sequence, as expected.

Came back into the room 20 min later to find all three lights flashing. Update manual says "update error; request for repair with your authorized dealer." Gulp.

The machine wouldn't respond to the remote or to the power button. Turned off power on the power conditioner, waited 10s, turned power on ... voila, machine responded to remote and turned on: still on 1.17.

I wondered if it was the USB drive, so used a different one, but I also changed the procedure. 

In the instructions, it says plug in the drive, then turn the machine on. First time thru, it was already on to check the version, so I left it on. It had seemingly detected the update as it asked about confirming 1.17 -> 2.01. 

This time, I turned the machine off first, plugged in the usb drive, then turned it on and went thru the same procedure. Seemed identical, all three lights sequentially flashing in sequence ... but this time it completed, and turned itself off. When I turned it back on, now says 2.10.

So: was it the drive, or is it necessary to have the machine off when plugging in the drive? Not sure, but that might be something to highlight in the instructions.

Also, that the 3 flashing lights do NOT necessarily mean you need to call for service. Thank goodness.

.. Mike

Manni

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Glad you got it back to life!

I don’t think it’s necessary to have the USB drive in before powering the PJ, but it’s certainly what JVC recommends in their instructions, so I would recommend to follow them. I did try that with my first drive, and it didn’t help it to be recognised.

My second drive was detected right away and I hotplugged it. Still the f/w update went fine, and when I switched the PJ back on, 2.01 was installed.

Manni,

For color calibration, is it more accurate the i1pro2 than the spyder 5? 

JVC RS2000K, 144” Stewart Studiotek 130 Cinemascope screen, Anthem AVM 60, Oppo 203 UHD Blu ray player, Panasonic UB820, B&W 803 D2s, B&W HTM D2, B&W 805s, B&W CCM ceiling speakers.

Manni

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Manni,

For color calibration, is it more accurate the i1pro2 than the spyder 5?

Yes, discussed in detail in Which Meter to Use? and in the Preparation and Calibration sections.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 04:26:41 PM by Manni »

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