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JVC DLA-20LTD projector

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2018, 07:50:31 AM »
Any updates Kris ?   :)

Hopefully Kris didn't get pulled into that presumably 200,000:1 native contrast black hole.  :D

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2018, 03:00:37 PM »
Hey guys. Sorry for the lack of updates. This just all turned out to be horrible timing for looking at a projector. I've started a new position at work and I've been on extensive and last minute travel A LOT, which was unforseen when the projector was shipped to me. I am going to try and get all the contrast measurements done this week and get some posts up. Combining those with my comments before would give you an idea of the projector overall, since it is basically a hand picked RS640. So far it is living up to that expectation in terms of uniformity, pixel focus, focus uniformity, and streaking, which are the areas that getting a "hand picked" unit make the most difference in. I'll try and get the measurements for contrast up by week's end. Thanks for your patience!!
Technical Editor/Writer
Sound and Vision

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2018, 08:59:00 PM »
No worries, Kris. Life comes first.

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2018, 02:40:38 PM »
Hello Everyone. I finally got the chance to spend some more time with the projector. The similarities to the x20 and x40 series continue. Out of the box calibration is in line with what I've seen from previous models, but I sometimes find this to be a bit of a misnomer. While you can get a very good calibration with very little tweaking out of the box, within about 150 hours or so the gamma issues start to really kick in. This requires a full calibration including the use of the JVC calibration software to correct the mid-range of the gamma curve, which can't be resolved with the normal user menu. So anyone buying a JVC, keep this in mind!!

The biggest thing I looked at was contrast performance. I know this is the key area that JVC separates themselves from the pack and with this "special edition" model I know a lot of big numbers have been thrown out there.

With that said, I tested the projector in both high and low lamp, but the differences between the two for contrast were too small to make a difference. Obviously lamp mode comes more into play on how much light you need or how aggressive you'd like to be with the manual dual iris system. I did test through the range of zoom (max and min) and three iris positions (fully open, mid (-8), and fully closed down).

For minimum zoom the numbers were 41K:1, 78K:1, and 115K:1. So around 40K is about the worst contrast number you should expect from this projector regardless of setup (unless you damage the black floor in your grayscale calibration or set brightness incorrectly).

For max zoom the numbers were 58K:1, 100K:1, and 196K:1. So overall contrast for this projector (without the use of the dynamic iris) should be somewhere between about 40K:1 on the low end and 200K:1 on the high end.

To put that in perspective the best native contrast I've measured from the new "4K" DLPs was around 2000:1 and with the Sony 4K projectors I got somewhere in the mid-teens (though I have not measured their newer models that have an iris to increase contrast performance).

With the dynamic iris contrast was much tougher to measure with values near 1,000,000:1 and higher for the most part. Obviously this will always give the best contrast performance but there are some subtle artifacts that vary with content, so the decision to use it is solely based on the end user preference. I've gotten more and more in the habit of not using it due to the higher native contrast we see from these projectors. Yes, it makes the black floor much better, but I see enough artifacts from time to time that I'm more inclined to be bothered by them than the native contrast performance once I'm absorbed by the content I'm watching. If I feel like the content is REALLY demanding, I just turn it on.

Technical Editor/Writer
Sound and Vision

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2018, 05:14:21 PM »
Very nice. Unreal native contrast measurement. This is a really sweet projector. :)
Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Carada, Da-Lite, Vutec, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan, Def Tech, RBH, M&K and many other brands.

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2018, 06:11:17 PM »
Great write up Kris!

In my RS520 review I talked a bit about how great the native contrast is on these units. In my haste setting up the RS520 before a friend came over to watch a movie with me, I accidentally forgot to turn the DI on. We watched Spiderman Homecoming. There was plenty of darker content in this film. I genuinely thought the DI was on because of how good the contrast appeared in these darker scenes. JVC is really a cut above in the native dynamic range department over other display manufacturers. While I haven't personally seen much, if any, difference in apparent resolution between Sony 4Ks and JVC eshift units, contrast is always something that I find to be obviously better on the JVC eshifters. I think that's why so many people are choosing JVC.

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2018, 06:33:58 PM »
Great write up Kris!

In my RS520 review I talked a bit about how great the native contrast is on these units. In my haste setting up the RS520 before a friend came over to watch a movie with me, I accidentally forgot to turn the DI on. We watched Spiderman Homecoming. There was plenty of darker content in this film. I genuinely thought the DI was on because of how good the contrast appeared in these darker scenes. JVC is really a cut above in the native dynamic range department over other display manufacturers. While I haven't personally seen much, if any, difference in apparent resolution between Sony 4Ks and JVC eshift units, contrast is always something that I find to be obviously better on the JVC eshifters. I think that's why so many people are choosing JVC.

Agree, native contrast really shines and honestly, I bet if most turned off the DI and didn't know it, they wouldn't notice unless they were really thinking about it or looking for problems (which people in this hobby always tend to do).

Native resolution vs the Sony is a tough one. Having a native 4K device is nice, and when you compare them side by side you can pick apart the little (and I do mean little) differences, but we don't watch content that way. The resolution on these has gotten so good that I doubt most would know the difference if they walked in a room and viewed the image without being told which was which. Not that I don't want JVC to move onto native 4K, but it isn't the nagging issue.

The nagging issues that I think JVC needs to focus on more than anything else are:

- HDMI synch time (this is LONG overdue for improvements and is IMHO their most frustrating issue)
- Gamma stability (we shouldn't be seeing this massive gamma shift in the mid range that requires special firmware to fix)

The things I want to see in future models (in order of my preference):

- Laser light source (stable light output over time and not worrying about power cycling EVER is nice)
- Lower noise level in high lamp (or higher laser modes)
- Native 4K panels
- Increases in native contrast (don't want them resting on their laurels!!!!)
- Increases in performance for dynamic contrast system (the both their lamp and laser models are good, but both could be improved)
- Improvements in HDR tone mapping (still not as good as Arve or Lumagen Intensity Mapping!)

Technical Editor/Writer
Sound and Vision

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2018, 02:00:40 PM »
I'm tempted more by native 4K than a laser light source.  I fear that having both at once will keep prices artificially high. I want to see native 4K from JVC at around $7000-$8000 or lower this fall and I don't think JVC will have laser and native 4K at that price this year. We'll see what happens.

Lately I've been hearing eshift noise a lot more than fan noise. I think getting rid of eshift will lower the dB level in high lamp mode with a 4K image on a noticeable level. I see this as one major benefit of native 4K panels.

One of my biggest gripes with JVC's eshifters is with internal reflections. In mid-APL content especially I think these internal reflections slightly washout the image a bit. I'd like to see JVC try and eliminate this issue if possible. I don't see it on Sony 4Ks or DLP projectors. Kris, have you seen internal reflection issues with the RS4500?

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2018, 03:11:48 PM »
No. Both the 4500 review unit and the one I purchased had zero reflection issues. All the standard models have it to varying degrees for sure.
Technical Editor/Writer
Sound and Vision

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2018, 03:20:08 PM »
That's great to hear. I hope this is something they can trickle down to the cheaper native 4K models when they come.

Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2018, 12:53:39 PM »
Craig posted pictures of the 20LTD on AVSF and stated the native contrast number, saying a review was on another forum. AVSF wiped the post out. Not only that, AVSF removed all posts that replied to Craig's post or post of a post that dealt with that topic.
Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Carada, Da-Lite, Vutec, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan, Def Tech, RBH, M&K and many other brands.

AVSCraig

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Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2018, 01:55:48 PM »
They can't axe my Tweets ! ???
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:30am - 4:30pm Pacific 
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We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
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Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2018, 02:04:53 PM »
AVSF wiped the post out. Not only that, AVSF removed all posts that replied to Craig's post or post of a post that dealt with that topic.

Why???  ???

AVSCraig

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Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2018, 04:12:58 PM »
Why???  ???

Because I said the info was on " another forum ". They don't like us here. They said it was spam.  :-X
Direct (585) 671-2972 8:30am - 4:30pm Pacific 
www.avscience.com  craig@avscience.com
We carry projectors, screens, speakers, receivers etc. !!
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Re: JVC DLA-20LTD projector
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2018, 04:13:29 PM »
Hello Everyone. I finally got the chance to spend some more time with the projector...
Hi Kris, Thank you for taking the time to evaluate this and publish your findings.

Did you by any chance take any ANSI Contrast Ratio measurements? I'd be interested to know how this compares with the RS640/X9900 which is circa 220:1 - 290:1 :)

BTW totally gutted that my own 20LTD was DOA and JVC were unable to replace it :(