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JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #705 on: May 04, 2017, 12:56:44 PM »
I just went true the review, and wondered why the screenshots was so full of edge ringing and artifacts?
Its not lack of image resolution on the shots, so is the images processed to look that bad, or is it actually just capturing whats on screen.?

I snapped a few shots of my own projector to compare, from the Blu Ray Oblivion, 1080P on a CRT projector, and even been trying adding massive Darbee (70%) and also some edge and detail enhancement, without beeing able to reproduce the amount of distortion shown on the JVC Z1 screenshots..

Would be interesting if someone else would take a shot at that Oblivion scene from a Z1.

It's been pointed out that the 4K Blu-ray of Oblivion has a lot of issues - no one should use that as a test / demo disc to begin with. that just occurred to me . There are better 4K discs for screen shots. 

Javs

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #706 on: May 05, 2017, 09:58:04 PM »
Different people define resolve in different ways.. If the green color distortion on the 1:1 horizontal line pattern is a limitation in the panels, or processing, ill say it cant fully resolve UHD, and ill also say that it will be hard to find a projector, or display that actually resolve the source material 100%, ill even claim that its has never been made..

Would be interesting to see where this new piece of toy is on the resolution scale.

If there is someone with a Z1, a camera and some good testpatterns + movies, it would be interesting for some of us mortals to get some insight into the capabilities of the latest tech.

Thats not distortion, and a limitation in the panels, where are you getting this information?

That's classic panel convergence issue, which I am sure is easy fixed with a quick panel alignment. I know for a fact this image was photographed when that projector was essentially about 2 hours old, and I am betting it has not been on for very long when that image was taken.

I have seen it before on my '1080p' projectors, and I have removed it before only with a couple clicks in alignment.
JVC X9500 (RS620) | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Emotiva 5175 | Rotel RMB-1555B | iNuke 3000DSP | Javelin Audio 7.4.2 System

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #707 on: May 06, 2017, 10:17:13 AM »
Thats not distortion, and a limitation in the panels, where are you getting this information?

That's classic panel convergence issue, which I am sure is easy fixed with a quick panel alignment. I know for a fact this image was photographed when that projector was essentially about 2 hours old, and I am betting it has not been on for very long when that image was taken.

I have seen it before on my '1080p' projectors, and I have removed it before only with a couple clicks in alignment.

And thats exactely why i requested a screenshot from someone else with a final setup.. My experience is that the convergence adjustment messes up the resolution, as its actually a warp feature/ scaling, and not a panel alignment, and any scaling have a negative effect on resolution, and the SMPTE pattern is designed in a way that no panel alignment error will make a visible color shift when you step back to a distance where you can not define/ focus the resolution, as its a ½ black ½ white pattern area in 3 different resolutions in both horizontal and vertical.. so if you snap a pic of that pattern out of focus all 6 resolution squares should represent the same gray/ identical light output, with no color polution/ shift.

If you cant do that you cant resolve the resolution, wich is quite normal for all other than DLP projectors.

Try out the pattern addet here, its a 1080P pattern designed to show bandwidth/ resolution tracking to gain/ light output. So a bit more advanced resolution test pattern, and dont worry to picture the lines or the resolution, just snap a shot out of focus and look if all pattern groups is uniform, or whatever happens.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 10:29:41 AM by stridsvognen »

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #708 on: May 06, 2017, 04:53:47 PM »
I just got my RS4500.  I am coming from a Sim2 C3X1080. 

When I first turned it on it was like a jet engine in my room.  Took me quite a while to find out how to change the laser power and it was a small consolation to find it was on high.  I'm going to have to consider a hush box of some sort.  On low power the fan noise is similar to my Sim2 on med/high lamp.  I was not expecting this much noise considering my Sim2  was much louder than any JVC I've ever experienced.

I have no issues with contrast.  I was fighting with a lot of black crush but I adopted Kris Deering's settings (which involved going up from Low laser to Med laser and employing the manual iris aperture and it's much better.

What I do have an issue with is how smeared the image looks (only watched 1080 so far).  Faces are like magazine covers where photos have been airbrushed.  Nobody has wrinkles or facial detail - at least not compared to what I was used to.  I guess this is the low ANSI contrast of LCOS.  It reminds me of playing DVDs (standard definition) on my Sim2.  In that situation there simply wasn't the resolution on the disc, but in this case with 1080 the resolution is just not making it to the screen (or it's being upscaled poorly, but I don't think so).  Again, tradeoffs of different technologies I presume.
JVC-RS4500 4k projector, Lumagen Pro, ST130 138" scope screen,
Panasonic DMP-UB900 & Plex Media Server
Classe SSP-800, Bryston amplification, Wilson Audio speakers (7.2) + Buttkickers.

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #709 on: May 06, 2017, 06:39:39 PM »
I just got my RS4500.  I am coming from a Sim2 C3X1080. 

When I first turned it on it was like a jet engine in my room.  Took me quite a while to find out how to change the laser power and it was a small consolation to find it was on high.  I'm going to have to consider a hush box of some sort.  On low power the fan noise is similar to my Sim2 on med/high lamp.  I was not expecting this much noise considering my Sim2  was much louder than any JVC I've ever experienced.

I have no issues with contrast.  I was fighting with a lot of black crush but I adopted Kris Deering's settings (which involved going up from Low laser to Med laser and employing the manual iris aperture and it's much better.

What I do have an issue with is how smeared the image looks (only watched 1080 so far).  Faces are like magazine covers where photos have been airbrushed.  Nobody has wrinkles or facial detail - at least not compared to what I was used to.  I guess this is the low ANSI contrast of LCOS.  It reminds me of playing DVDs (standard definition) on my Sim2.  In that situation there simply wasn't the resolution on the disc, but in this case with 1080 the resolution is just not making it to the screen (or it's being upscaled poorly, but I don't think so).  Again, tradeoffs of different technologies I presume.

Put " Fury " on, on Blu-ray. It should look plenty sharp. If it doesn't, something is amiss in your system. What source device ? I went from Sim Lumis Host and a Sony VW600, to an RS600 and the VW600, to the RS4500. No loss in sharpness, but the better the projector, the better it shows source limitations.

If " Passengers " on 4K UHD Blu Ray doesn't look sharp, something's wrong. That's the other thing - the more 4K I watch, the worse once stellar looking Blu-rays start to look in comparison. Same as when we went from DVD's to BR's !

Javs

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #710 on: May 06, 2017, 08:08:52 PM »
And thats exactely why i requested a screenshot from someone else with a final setup.. My experience is that the convergence adjustment messes up the resolution, as its actually a warp feature/ scaling, and not a panel alignment, and any scaling have a negative effect on resolution, and the SMPTE pattern is designed in a way that no panel alignment error will make a visible color shift when you step back to a distance where you can not define/ focus the resolution, as its a ½ black ½ white pattern area in 3 different resolutions in both horizontal and vertical.. so if you snap a pic of that pattern out of focus all 6 resolution squares should represent the same gray/ identical light output, with no color polution/ shift.

If you cant do that you cant resolve the resolution, wich is quite normal for all other than DLP projectors.

Try out the pattern addet here, its a 1080P pattern designed to show bandwidth/ resolution tracking to gain/ light output. So a bit more advanced resolution test pattern, and dont worry to picture the lines or the resolution, just snap a shot out of focus and look if all pattern groups is uniform, or whatever happens.

Only if you do 1/16th pixel increments, if you stick to full pixel you are good, I have tested it with a similar pattern and not seen any errors with my exactly 1 pixel panel alignment adjustment on my JVC.

I don't own a Z1 otherwise I would show you the screen-shot's.

I use this pattern on my JVC to check such things, lower left and upper right have single pixel lines:

http://i.imgur.com/BFUCNTK.png
JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)


Also these are single pixel grids, thanks for your shot in any case, I will use that too.

http://i.imgur.com/IB90gGF.png
JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

JVC X9500 (RS620) | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Emotiva 5175 | Rotel RMB-1555B | iNuke 3000DSP | Javelin Audio 7.4.2 System

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #711 on: May 07, 2017, 03:36:37 AM »
why are the pattern files above 1920x1090, and not 1080?

I linked to some UHD patterns from youtube, with 1:1 horizontal and vertival resolutions, would be interesting to see how they look on the Z1

Javs

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #712 on: May 07, 2017, 09:16:27 PM »
why are the pattern files above 1920x1090, and not 1080?

I linked to some UHD patterns from youtube, with 1:1 horizontal and vertival resolutions, would be interesting to see how they look on the Z1

They are screenshots, I am just sending you VLC Screengrabs. The patterns are from the AVS709 suite, they are easy to find.

The original files are right, looks like you just found a bug in VLC's screen-shot tool I wasnt aware of. Pretty odd.

This is the 4K pattern which WAS checked by multiple people on the Z1. Including in the shot which you saw distortion on shot on the iphone, which I still think was due to cold panels.

Its from the Masciola suite, there is no need to use other patterns, it has 1 pixel width lines on it.

http://i.imgur.com/oti8XJj.png
JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 09:22:15 PM by Javs »
JVC X9500 (RS620) | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | Emotiva 5175 | Rotel RMB-1555B | iNuke 3000DSP | Javelin Audio 7.4.2 System

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #713 on: May 08, 2017, 11:43:15 AM »
They are screenshots, I am just sending you VLC Screengrabs. The patterns are from the AVS709 suite, they are easy to find.

The original files are right, looks like you just found a bug in VLC's screen-shot tool I wasnt aware of. Pretty odd.

This is the 4K pattern which WAS checked by multiple people on the Z1. Including in the shot which you saw distortion on shot on the iphone, which I still think was due to cold panels.

Its from the Masciola suite, there is no need to use other patterns, it has 1 pixel width lines on it.

http://i.imgur.com/oti8XJj.png
JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)


Nice pattern, do you know of a UHD croma multiburst pattern..?

Now we just need someone with a Z1 and a camera, that can take a picture that ilustrates whats going on, confirm the distortion or show its a setup error, so we dont need to guess and speculate.

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #714 on: May 08, 2017, 12:11:31 PM »
I might be able to take a good photo.  Can you point me to where I can get the pattern?
JVC-RS4500 4k projector, Lumagen Pro, ST130 138" scope screen,
Panasonic DMP-UB900 & Plex Media Server
Classe SSP-800, Bryston amplification, Wilson Audio speakers (7.2) + Buttkickers.

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #715 on: May 09, 2017, 11:19:38 AM »
Just put my CC authorization in for one of these for my theater. I just recently purchased a 140" ST100 scope screen so the added resolution and brightness pushed me to upgrade to this from my RS620. Should have it next week sometime if all goes well. I can post some pics and follow up on some measurements with the new firmware when it comes in.
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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #716 on: May 09, 2017, 01:36:06 PM »
I might be able to take a good photo.  Can you point me to where I can get the pattern?


Just download some of the UHD patterns posted here and save them on a USB stick if you have a player that will work with that.

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #717 on: May 09, 2017, 01:57:10 PM »
Just download some of the UHD patterns posted here and save them on a USB stick if you have a player that will work with that.

Ahh, OK, didn't realize they were 3840x2160.  Thanks, I've been trying to find test patterns so this will be very helpful.
JVC-RS4500 4k projector, Lumagen Pro, ST130 138" scope screen,
Panasonic DMP-UB900 & Plex Media Server
Classe SSP-800, Bryston amplification, Wilson Audio speakers (7.2) + Buttkickers.

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #718 on: May 09, 2017, 04:46:33 PM »
Ahh, OK, didn't realize they were 3840x2160.  Thanks, I've been trying to find test patterns so this will be very helpful.

Some are 1080P others are 2160P patterns, when you download them you can always confirm looking in the file info.. I posted some youtube links, there you can stream some UHD patterns.

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #719 on: May 16, 2017, 11:52:16 AM »
I've got some screen shots here - https://discuss.avscience.com/?topic=292.new#new

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