JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

[AVSMike]

Oh, that's a shame.  I like complete fade to black.  In a light controlled room you are plunged into absolute darkness.  Filmmakers often use this mechanic - no light, but plenty of sound - it's very effective, and it's always spoiled by light off the screen.

Will withhold final judgment until I see it for myself (hopefully next week).

I got this illusion of this with my RS600 in my room. In looking at Kris's numbers for the RS4500 and Jav's numbers for the RS500, I think the RS4500 is going to do even better than my RS600. 

[AVSMike]

I guess we could ask Kris, how does the JVC look when doing full fade to black with dynamic dimming on?

[Kris Deering]

I guess we could ask Kris, how does the JVC look when doing full fade to black with dynamic dimming on?

Better than my X750. Plus absolutely zero uniformity issues.

[AVSCraig]

Sounds good. At 1.3 gain on a 14' Microperf screen, how well will this PJ light things up? Any measurements, thoughts, etc. ? Is this PJ for larger screens?

Thanks for the heads up Kris (and Mike).

It appears to me from the lumen numbers I've seen that the RS4500 is about the same brightness wise as your Lumis. Maybe a little brighter. I think my Lumis Host was spec'd at 3000 lumens, but I never measured that many. More like 2200 calibrated in high lamp. Of course my lamps dimmed rather rapidly, something that won't be a problem with the RS4500. 

[AVSMike]

It appears to me from the lumen numbers I've seen that the RS4500 is about the same brightness wise as your Lumis. Maybe a little brighter. I think my Lumis Host was spec'd at 3000 lumens, but I never measured that many. More like 2200 calibrated in high lamp. Of course my lamps dimmed rather rapidly, something that won't be a problem with the RS4500.

4500 is brighter calibrated than the Lumis.
Talking at max calibrated lumens, not with iris closed down. Not talking a huge difference (200/300), but it would start to be a big difference as soon as you put 100 hours on the Lumis.

[AVSCraig]

That's the trouble with lamp projectors. Even if they started out at the exact same brightness, the lamp projector will only be that bright for a few hours. Then starts it's long steady decay. Laser may decay too, but at a much slower rate.

[ARROW-AV]

I am not sure why you are debating this with me... I know you are intelligent, but no need to try and drive this point home as if I dont understand the significance...

How about we simply agree that it would be more representative and usefully indicative of actual video performance if, with respect to projectors such as the Epson 10000/10500, the native ON/OFF contrast was measured and published within the projector's published technical information, not by turning off the light source, but with the light output being set to whatever is the proportionate step down from all black 16 with singular white 235 pixel to full field black 16; and leave it at that. OK?

[AVSCraig]

How about we simply agree that it would be more representative and usefully indicative of actual video performance if, with respect to projectors such as the Epson 10000/10500, the native ON/OFF contrast was measured and published within the projector's published technical information, not by turning off the light source, but with the light output being set to whatever is the proportionate step down from all black 16 with singular white 235 pixel to full field black 16; and leave it at that. OK?

This is why I usually disregard manufacturer's ( marketing department ) numbers and just wait for the review by at least 2 neutral parties ( Kris does count double though ).

[AVSMike]

How about we simply agree that it would be more representative and usefully indicative of actual video performance if, with respect to projectors such as the Epson 10000/10500, the native ON/OFF contrast was measured and published within the projector's published technical information, not by turning off the light source, but with the light output being set to whatever is the proportionate step down from all black 16 with singular white 235 pixel to full field black 16; and leave it at that. OK?

Yep, otherwise what are we going to say when a DLP with 1,500:1 native has a laser that shuts off.

[AVSCraig]

Better than my X750. Plus absolutely zero uniformity issues.

That is good enough for me!!

[Javs]

Has the Epson been measured at 1%? Curious to know the answer to that, to see how big of a jump it has coming out off infinity. It is probably just as easy for JVC to have set the projector up, to just turn off the light source in a full fade to black, so it sounds to me JVC selected not to, because overall it came across better when viewing. I will see if I can get any information.

Yes,

At the bottom of this review:

http://projectiondream.com/en/epson-eh-ls10000-projector-review/

Wide open Iris at 1% they measure 6800/7000:1. They measured 12500 at 0%, so that's a half loss.

JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

They measured 0% Iris fully closed at 28k, so since we can assume half loss at 1%, best case scenario it might be 14k at 1%

[Javs]

How about we simply agree that it would be more representative and usefully indicative of actual video performance if, with respect to projectors such as the Epson 10000/10500, the native ON/OFF contrast was measured and published within the projector's published technical information, not by turning off the light source, but with the light output being set to whatever is the proportionate step down from all black 16 with singular white 235 pixel to full field black 16; and leave it at that. OK?

We never disagreed with that, I disagreed with you saying that the metric was BS, when it is not, the maths is real.

I disagree with you only on a technicality. If you know anything about me, and read the JVC user threads, you would know I have been advocating these multi measurement contrast ratios since well before you ever mentioned it in the Z1 thread, we are on the same page mate.

[ARROW-AV]

...I disagreed with you saying that the metric was BS, when it is not, the maths is real... I disagree with you only on a technicality...we are on the same page mate.

Good to hear we're on the same page about this!

Although for what it's worth I never actually said that, but no worries!

[thebland]

Without your A-lens around 27/30FL max depending on throw, on your Ultramatte 150 microperf (1.35 gain).

I'm not the video guy here, though the lumens are better on this JVC relative to my Lumis, is the increased CR of this PJ make the effect similar to CRTs in that you do not need high brightness to get a terrific contrasted picture?

For the typical film, where is the sweet spot in terms of brightness with a calibrated picture (Ft Lamberts) in a darkened HT environment that most here feel is ideal?

Thanks!

[AVSCraig]

I'm not the video guy here, though the lumens are better on this JVC relative to my Lumis, is the increased CR of this PJ make the effect similar to CRTs in that you do not need high brightness to get a terrific contrasted picture?

For the typical film, where is the sweet spot in terms of brightness with a calibrated picture (Ft Lamberts) in a darkened HT environment that most here feel is ideal?

Thanks!

I'd say around 16 foot lamberts.