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JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #105 on: January 10, 2017, 10:22:20 AM »
A lot of people are looking forward to Kris's hands on review. Not just the numbers, I am also very interested in his thoughts on the image, especially with HDR on his size screen.
What is Kris's screen size? :)

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #106 on: January 10, 2017, 10:36:01 AM »
I believe Kris has a 120" 1:78 Stewart ST100.

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #107 on: January 10, 2017, 01:47:38 PM »
I believe Kris has a 120" 1:78 Stewart ST100.

Correct.
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AVSMike

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #108 on: January 10, 2017, 03:39:55 PM »
I have confirmed, the dynamic dimming feature was not shown Thursday, Friday or Saturday at CES. Laser dynamic dimming will make a difference and not just talking with fades to black.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 04:04:23 PM by AVSMike »
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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #109 on: January 10, 2017, 08:57:37 PM »
I have confirmed, the dynamic dimming feature was not shown Thursday, Friday or Saturday at CES. Laser dynamic dimming will make a difference and not just talking with fades to black.

Do you know if there is also a functioning mechanical iris like the current models in tandem with the laser modulation?

Or is the mechanical iris fixed, but adjustable as an additional fine tune control over brightness only, such as -10 for hitting 16fl precisely, then the laser dimming is the only 'auto iris' type function after that point?

If no mechanical auto iris, then contrast will not increase the lower the APL content is projected. That would be a slight shame.
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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #110 on: January 10, 2017, 10:13:08 PM »
I have confirmed, the dynamic dimming feature was not shown Thursday, Friday or Saturday at CES. Laser dynamic dimming will make a difference and not just talking with fades to black.

Will this be available day 1 on production units when they arrive in the US?
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AVSMike

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #111 on: January 10, 2017, 10:17:11 PM »
Do you know if there is also a functioning mechanical iris like the current models in tandem with the laser modulation?

Or is the mechanical iris fixed, but adjustable as an additional fine tune control over brightness only, such as -10 for hitting 16fl precisely, then the laser dimming is the only 'auto iris' type function after that point?

If no mechanical auto iris, then contrast will not increase the lower the APL content is projected. That would be a slight shame.

No dynamic mechanical iris. Only a fixed adjustable iris for light output. You have three laser output settings and 15/16 iris adjustments in each laser output mode.
My Baffle Wall System: https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=124.msg902#msg902

Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Da-Lite, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan & more.

AVSMike

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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #112 on: January 10, 2017, 10:18:36 PM »
Will this be available day 1 on production units when they arrive in the US?

Yes, it is part of the final firmware, but like the VW5000, I am sure that the RS4500 will get additional firmware updates to improve the projector, after shipping to owners.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 10:23:49 PM by AVSMike »
My Baffle Wall System: https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=124.msg902#msg902

Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

JVC, Sony, Epson, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Stewart, Seymour, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, DNP, Da-Lite, Triad, SVS, Martin Logan & more.

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #113 on: January 11, 2017, 10:17:22 AM »
I have confirmed, the dynamic dimming feature was not shown Thursday, Friday or Saturday at CES. Laser dynamic dimming will make a difference and not just talking with fades to black.
This is great news Mike! Thank you. :)

There's been quite a lot of conflicting information about this new projector on the various forums, and even some early AV magazine reviews (!) so I personally have mentally disregarded all of that and I am now simply waiting for Kris' review, including his what we can be absolutely sure will be accurate and reliable measurements of what we know for sure is the final production unit (go on say it SEEGS108 ;)), whereas the same cannot be said for sure about absolutely all other reported performance information to date, including not even just now at CES, and would like to helpfully recommend to anyone else who is concerned about things that they have read about this projector, that they might like to do so too... There's a ludicrous amount of conflicting information out there at the moment... It's not long to wait now, only a matter of days! Where even my own zero level of patience can extend to that! ;) :D

Yes, it is part of the final firmware, but like the VW5000, I am sure that the RS4500 will get additional firmware updates to improve the projector, after shipping to owners.
I alluded to this on another forum Mike, and you are absolutely correct here... It's worth mentioning that the SONY 5000ES took about 9 months worth of firmware updates to resolve all the issues at launch, and with this kind of early generation laser projection technology it should be expected that not everything will be absolutely perfect at launch, and there will be further enhancements to come via firmware updates. So excellent point Mike :)
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« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:24:21 AM by ARROW-AV »

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #114 on: January 11, 2017, 10:20:05 AM »
I believe Kris has a 120" 1:78 Stewart ST100.
Thanks David. That's a great screen to be reviewing this projector. Perfect. :)

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #115 on: January 11, 2017, 11:15:06 AM »
This is great news Mike! Thank you. :)

There's been quite a lot of conflicting information about this new projector on the various forums, and even some early AV magazine reviews (!) so I personally have mentally disregarded all of that and I am now simply waiting for Kris' review, including his what we can be absolutely sure will be accurate and reliable measurements of what we know for sure is the final production unit (go on say it SEEGS108 ;)), whereas the same cannot be said for sure about absolutely all other reported performance information to date, including not even just now at CES, and would like to helpfully recommend to anyone else who is concerned about things that they have read about this projector, that they might like to do so too... There's a ludicrous amount of conflicting information out there at the moment... It's not long to wait now, only a matter of days! Where even my own zero level of patience can extend to that! ;) :D
I alluded to this on another forum Mike, and you are absolutely correct here... It's worth mentioning that the SONY 5000ES took about 9 months worth of firmware updates to resolve all the issues at launch, and with this kind of early generation laser projection technology it should be expected that not everything will be absolutely perfect at launch, and there will be further enhancements to come via firmware updates. So excellent point Mike :)
.

Maybe competitors are spreading fake news ! There are just too many pre - production models floating around. JVC should have spray painted " Pre - production " on the case, so there was no mistaking them for final production models!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 11:17:36 AM by AVSCraig »

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #116 on: January 11, 2017, 05:26:42 PM »
I agree there's too much conflicting information out there at the moment and I think certain people have drawn conclusions too soon. I've noticed that some people seem happy to draw conclusions before full production units without beta firmware on them ship. They seem to want the Z1 to be dead in the water before it even gets a chance to look as good as it can. Mike makes a good point and references the 5000ES where it was far less refined in image quality at launch compared to right now. IF native contrast performance on these projectors is better than the ~9000:1 as mentioned in that review of a preproduction unit, then you can rest assured it can reach the 5000ES in most areas of performance in future firmware updates. The exception being absolute brightness. BUT after it was announced at CEDIA we never thought it was going to be as bright as the 5000ES in a color matched mode so this aspect should NOT be a disappointment to anyone. For those of us (including me) who don't have a "huge" screen, the brightness capabilities of the Z1 should be adequate.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:41:56 PM by Dylan Seeger »
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Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #117 on: January 12, 2017, 12:01:13 PM »
Maybe competitors are spreading fake news ! There are just too many pre - production models floating around. JVC should have spray painted " Pre - production " on the case, so there was no mistaking them for final production models!
I think you may be onto something there Craig, I could have sworn I saw "SPONSORED BY SONY" at the bottom of that German AV Magazine review of the JVC RS4500/Z1!  ;) ::) ;D

I agree there's too much conflicting information out there at the moment and I think certain people have drawn conclusions too soon...
IMO everything was fine until that German AV magazine review... That was the trigger here... And I have to say you can hardly blame everyone for reacting to that the way everyone did, what with it having the appearance of being a professional review in an AV magazine with lab data and thereby bona fide information relating to production units and authorised and approved by JVC... Where IMO magazine reviews should never be done with respect to a pre-production unit of any product in any industry, or at the very least make it extremely clear at the top of the 'review' that it's pre-production and hence not accurately representative of the finished product! Totally irresponsible if you ask me, but that's just my opinion :-\

Mike, you are a gentleman with respect to your glass-half-full perspective of the review, but IMO that is quite simply not a good review, but which is now understandable now that the whistle has been blown regarding it being a pre-production unit

For those of us (including me) who don't have a "huge" screen, the brightness capabilities of the Z1 should be adequate.
Indeed :D

But playing Devil's Advocate here, given we are talking a whopping $35,000 is "ADEQUATE" really OK? Or would 'GOOD', 'VERY GOOD' or 'EXCELLENT' be more appropriate given the price tag?  :-\

I can't answer that because IMO this is going to boil down to personal preference, and some peoples' personal preference might prefer the video performance of the new JVC RS620/9500 on 'non-huge' screens given it offers 2,000 lumens plus 160,000:1 native contrast and 1,600,000:1 dynamic contrast... and save $25,000 in the process ;) Who knows?  :)

We were kind of hoping to be able to use the RS4500/Z1 projector for a very wide range of applications, including some outside-the-box-extraordinary-by-definition-type-applications involving "huge" 7 metre / 23 feet wide screens and the like, but we are now thinking that other possible solutions might be the better choice for these, such as for example using the new RS620/X9500, which is why I am very interested to see a side-by-side comparison versus the RS4500/Z1... I will be having many opportunities to see precisely this within the next few weeks or so, where I will be sure to post on here our findings, since I am sure others might find the comparison of interest... although we may not be the first to carry out such a direct comparison...

But right now all I am thinking about is Kris' review... C'mon, c'mon! :P
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 12:55:24 PM by ARROW-AV »

AVSCraig

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #118 on: January 12, 2017, 12:52:11 PM »
I think you may be onto something there Craig, I could have sworn I saw "SPONSORED BY SONY" at the bottom of that German AV Magazine review of the JVC RS4500/Z1!  ;) ::) ;D
IMO everything was fine until that German AV magazine review... That was the trigger here... And I have to say you can hardly blame everyone for reacting to that the way everyone did, what with it having the appearance of being a professional review in an AV magazine with lab data and thereby bona fide information relating to production units and authorised and approved by JVC... Where IMO magazine reviews should never be done with respect to a pre-production unit of any product in any industry, or at the very least make it extremely clear at the top of the 'review' that it's pre-production and hence not accurately representative of the finished product! Totally irresponsible if you ask me, but that's just my opinion :-\

Mike, you are a gentleman with respect to your glass-half-full perspective of the review, but IMO that is quite simply not a good review, but which is now understandable now that the whistle has been blown regarding it being a pre-production unit
Indeed :D

But playing Devil's Advocate here, given we are talking a whopping $35,000 is "ADEQUATE" really OK? Or would 'GOOD', 'VERY GOOD' or 'EXCELLENT' be more appropriate given the price tag?  :-\

I can't answer that because IMO this is going to boil down to personal preference, and some peoples' personal preference might prefer the video performance of the new JVC RS620/9500 on 'non-huge' screens and save $25,000 in the process...  ;) Who knows?  :)

We were kind of hoping to be able to use the RS4500/Z1 projector for a very wide range of applications, including some outside-the-box-extraordinary-by-definition-type-applications involving "huge" 7 metre / 23 feet wide screens and the like, but we are now thinking that other possible solutions might be the better choice for these, such as for example using the new RS620/X9500, which is why I am very interested to see a side-by-side comparison versus the RS4500/Z1... I will be having many opportunities to see precisely this within the next few weeks or so, where I will be sure to post on here our findings, since I am sure others might find the comparison of interest... although we may not be the first to carry out such a direct comparison...

But right now all I am thinking about is Kris' review... C'mon, c'mon! :P

Having owned a Sim Lumis - also a $ 35K projector, I can tell you that the Lumis wasn't any brighter than the the RS4500. But, no lamp dimming is a big plus in my book, as is the sharpness and clarity of a super good lens.

Re: JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)
« Reply #119 on: January 12, 2017, 12:56:54 PM »
Having owned a Sim Lumis - also a $ 35K projector, I can tell you that the Lumis wasn't any brighter than the the RS4500. But, no lamp dimming is a big plus in my book, as is the sharpness and clarity of a super good lens.
Agreed :)

That said, in my opinion, but just my opinion, as long as you follow the 70/30 rule (as recommended by THX) lamps are not really a problem, and some might consider this to be the lesser evil as compared with a significant drop in contrast and raising of the black floor... whereas others might consider the lamp dimming to be the greater evil... so like I said it's all down to personal preference ;)

As far as I am concerned I am afraid that JVC's unrivalled contrast performance of its other projectors has made me spoilt for choice with respect to anything less! And hence this has become my reference standard... Where we all know that I am not the only person to be thinking this... Which is why it was music to my ears to hear confirmation from Mike that with respect to the unit being demoed at CES this was not using the dynamic laser dimming that should mean comparatively significantly improved black floor with the production units of the RS4500/Z1 :)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 01:30:47 PM by ARROW-AV »

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