JVC RS4500 (native 4K laser projector)

[Kris Deering]

I first watched with Dynamic mode 2 and saw the first title appear faintly, then the 2nd title appear, disappear and re-appear again.

With Dynamic mode OFF, I could see that the titles 'wipe' in from left to right and the 2nd title doesn't disappear & reappear again.

Is this what you're seeing?

Again, slightly different than my results. I am seeing the titles but they are extremely faint the entire time and never wipe but just flicker the entire time. Very bizarre behavior. I will try this one with 4K as well today to see if any difference. I will also try the UHD version of this.

[AVSCraig]

The dynamic laser does not go to full black if you send 4K, so I wanted to see if the things I'm seeing are only with a 1080p signal being sent vs a 4K.

Actually I have gotten Blu-rays upscaled to 4K to close the iris 100%. " The Lincoln Lawyer " was one I posted on the other forum, that had numerous total fade to black scenes. I'll test this later today.

[Kris Deering]

Interesting. I will see if I can get a 100% blackout with a 4K input.

As for the issue I'm seeing, it is not a problem with a 4K input. I looked at both the opening titles of Oblivion and the scene from Star Wars and both looked fine if the projector is receiving a 4K signal. I've reported this to JVC, so hopefully they'll have a look at it.

[AVSCraig]

Interesting. I will see if I can get a 100% blackout with a 4K input.

As for the issue I'm seeing, it is not a problem with a 4K input. I looked at both the opening titles of Oblivion and the scene from Star Wars and both looked fine if the projector is receiving a 4K signal. I've reported this to JVC, so hopefully they'll have a look at it.

I also saw several total FTB scenes watching Kill Bill 1 & 2 a week ago. It's just easier to let my Panasonic UB900 upscale Blu-rays to 4K. I'd have to manually change it to 1080p each time - that isn't going to happen. And the results look as good to me as sending the RS4500 a 1080p signal.

[AVSCraig]

Now if someone could just make " black " look the same with 4K UHD Blu-rays as it does with Blu-ray content, I'd be real happy. That's a source material / 4K standard issue. And whomever decided that was a good idea should be yelled at. Sometimes I think 1080p source material can look better than 4K source material because of this. At least that breathes new life into my Blu-ray collection !

I was totally surprised to see how good the fade to black scenes looked watching " 60 Minutes " last night. I don't usually watch that in the theater.

[Kris Deering]

Now if someone could just make " black " look the same with 4K UHD Blu-rays as it does with Blu-ray content, I'd be real happy. That's a source material / 4K standard issue. And whomever decided that was a good idea should be yelled at. Sometimes I think 1080p source material can look better than 4K source material because of this. At least that breathes new life into my Blu-ray collection !

I was totally surprised to see how good the fade to black scenes looked watching " 60 Minutes " last night. I don't usually watch that in the theater.

HDR has differing black levels because the encode is a direct translation of what the mastering was done at. So if they mastered with a display with a .005 black level instead of 0, you see what they see. With standard HDR displays this isn't a problem, but with projectors that don't take that into account, it is. You could use the Arve tool and fix the issue though, it has a way to compensate for this. That is my next step this week, making a custom curve for my 4500 in mid laser. The fan noise in high laser is just too much for me (mid is actually more than I'd like).

[AVSCraig]

HDR has differing black levels because the encode is a direct translation of what the mastering was done at. So if they mastered with a display with a .005 black level instead of 0, you see what they see. With standard HDR displays this isn't a problem, but with projectors that don't take that into account, it is. You could use the Arve tool and fix the issue though, it has a way to compensate for this. That is my next step this week, making a custom curve for my 4500 in mid laser. The fan noise in high laser is just too much for me (mid is actually more than I'd like).

Mid laser is giving me 38 foot lamberts for HDR, which is just fine on my screens. Overall everything looks pretty darn good. Black levels are higher than HD sources, but I'll live with that for right now. Actual content looks great however - dark scenes included. Like this ( Star Trek Into Darkness 4K ) -

[Kris Deering]

If you have the Masciola test patterns, just set brightness to clip at digital 78 (81 still flashing) and you should be good to go for brightness.

[AVSCraig]

If you have the Masciola test patterns, just set brightness to clip at digital 78 (81 still flashing) and you should be good to go for brightness.

You talking to me? My projector is fully calibrated. The picture looks good ( as you can see in my previous post ). What I'm talking about are black frames between the movie menu and the movie starting, for one example. Black transitional frames I'll call them. There are things like that where the black levels on a 4K UHD Blu-ray clearly are encoded higher than a regular Blu-ray. It's an HDR thing for sure. Black levels in actual 4K HDR movies look fine.

[Madfloyd]

My projector was calibrated yesterday by Ken Whitcomb.   It looks great.  I had some black crush with SDR previously and of course he fixed that.  The only downside is that a black screen is grey, not black and the corners are brighter, reminding me of my old JVC RS1.   

I have the weirdest issue that is driving me nuts and in the off chance that someone here can shed any light on it, I'm going to mention it.  It shouldn't be related to my new projector but the problem surfaced when the RS4500 arrived on the scene.   My FIOS Motorola STB has a lip-sync problem that is very severe.  It turns out the audio is delayed so I can't correct via the typical lip-sync features in my pre/processor.  There don't seem to be any settings in the STB that I can look to for a cure and googling hasn't helped.  Any ideas?   Why this would happen when I switch projectors I cannot figure out (all other sources are fine, including others going through the pre/processor). 

[AVSCraig]

My projector was calibrated yesterday by Ken Whitcomb.   It looks great.  I had some black crush with SDR previously and of course he fixed that.  The only downside is that a black screen is grey, not black and the corners are brighter, reminding me of my old JVC RS1.   

I have the weirdest issue that is driving me nuts and in the off chance that someone here can shed any light on it, I'm going to mention it.  It shouldn't be related to my new projector but the problem surfaced when the RS4500 arrived on the scene.   My FIOS Motorola STB has a lip-sync problem that is very severe.  It turns out the audio is delayed so I can't correct via the typical lip-sync features in my pre/processor.  There don't seem to be any settings in the STB that I can look to for a cure and googling hasn't helped.  Any ideas?   Why this would happen when I switch projectors I cannot figure out (all other sources are fine, including others going through the pre/processor).

Ha - I've had the same lip sync issues. I'm using Dish, and a Hopper ( 1080p - not 4K ). Here's the weird thing - anything DVR'd is fine, and some channels ( live ) are better than others lip sync wise. That said, Dish is going today and U Verse is being installed - I'll let you know if there is any change.

[Kris Deering]

My projector was calibrated yesterday by Ken Whitcomb.   It looks great.  I had some black crush with SDR previously and of course he fixed that.  The only downside is that a black screen is grey, not black and the corners are brighter, reminding me of my old JVC RS1.   

I have the weirdest issue that is driving me nuts and in the off chance that someone here can shed any light on it, I'm going to mention it.  It shouldn't be related to my new projector but the problem surfaced when the RS4500 arrived on the scene.   My FIOS Motorola STB has a lip-sync problem that is very severe.  It turns out the audio is delayed so I can't correct via the typical lip-sync features in my pre/processor.  There don't seem to be any settings in the STB that I can look to for a cure and googling hasn't helped.  Any ideas?   Why this would happen when I switch projectors I cannot figure out (all other sources are fine, including others going through the pre/processor).

The RS4500 doesn't have the native contrast of the newer JVCs and is more in line with the performance of the older JVCs. With a 1080p input (to the projector and never scaled) you can get the laser to shut off, but I've also found that you will get other artifacts depending on the content, that may pop up on occasion.

[Madfloyd]

The RS4500 doesn't have the native contrast of the newer JVCs and is more in line with the performance of the older JVCs.

Oh believe me, I know.  My RS1 had 15k native contrast (according to specs).  The RS4500 is, what, half that?

I assumed it would at least beat the contrast of my 10 year old Sim2, but it's a lot closer than I hoped.  I just didn't expect the bright corners.

[Madfloyd]

A LUT is a data Look-Up-Table...  used to calibrate displays.

http://calman.spectracal.com/creating-3d-luts.html

Thank you.  I need a LUT box.

[Kris Deering]

Oh believe me, I know.  My RS1 had 15k native contrast (according to specs).  The RS4500 is, what, half that?

I assumed it would at least beat the contrast of my 10 year old Sim2, but it's a lot closer than I hoped.  I just didn't expect the bright corners.

What your actual native contrast will be all depends on what aperture setting you are using. WORST case is around 8K:1. But if you are using the aperture it is probably higher. I am getting about 14,000:1, but with the RS620 I was getting closer to 60K:1 in my setup native (way higher than that with the DI engaged).