JVC RS440 / 540 / 640 projectors

[Javs]

Any number of reasons, but I don't think it is the projector design. Because if it was, then all of them would be low and that does not look to be the case.

Mike, this friend of yours, is his 640 from a later production run?

Mine and a few others seem to be one of the early runs...

I also noticed when I ran Autocal, I was GAINING a few % light output each iris step I calibrated colour temp on, now my LUX readings are already reflecting that, but it was interesting. Its possible the first run maybe had terrible colour temp calibrations from factory. Pull too much red and you need to shift green and blue WAY down to match.

For eg, Red would read 120nits off the screen, green 158 and blue 147, then by the time you pull down green and blue, red also comes down a a bit with it, and you end up nearer 107 nits or so for eg.

Its always Red which is lowest in light output. I also notice on my 9900 the OSD menu itself is VERY warm colour temp, I mean it looks almost like 4500k for eg, my 9500 menu looks like 7500K. this is the menu itself, and no matter what calibration, settings, adjustments are done, this menu is always the exact same colour temp... Its odd.

[AVSMike]

I get it, just like with "CMD" early on there was "no issue" and people had to push and post screenshots and data, then all of a sudden there was an issue, and one that requires a fix.

I get that some of us are a bit different as we actual might take the time to validate manufactures claims, measure them, compare notes, etc... It just seems like something is off, or the handful of us that have measured are just unlucky as all are coming across units that measure quite poor to the previous year models.

I can live with less than spec, what is hard for me to swallow is when people post they are getting 1200 lumens calibrated on low lamp, and I can't hit 1100 on high. Hopefully as a fellow enthusiast you can understand the concern.

Nobody ever said there was no banding on the JVC. Everybody, including JVC admitted it was there. Only thing was ever questioned was just how big of an issue it actually was. Some people made it out to be a mountain for everybody, when for most, it was a mole hill or non issue. But that was only because Most did not use CMD. For those that did use CMD, it was a big issue for many of them.

[AVSMike]

Mike, this friend of yours, is his 640 from a later production run?

Mine and a few others seem to be one of the early runs...

I also noticed when I ran Autocal, I was GAINING a few % light output each iris step I calibrated colour temp on, now my LUX readings are already reflecting that, but it was interesting. Its possible the first run maybe had terrible colour temp calibrations from factory. Pull too much red and you need to shift green and blue WAY down to match.

For eg, Red would read 120nits off the screen, green 158 and blue 147, then by the time you pull down green and blue, red also comes down a a bit with it, and you end up nearer 107 nits or so for eg.

Its always Red which is lowest in light output. I also notice on my 9900 the OSD menu itself is VERY warm colour temp, I mean it looks almost like 4500k for eg, my 9500 menu looks like 7500K. this is the menu itself, and no matter what calibration, settings, adjustments are done, this menu is always the exact same colour temp... Its odd.

I do not know. Will see if I can find out.

[AVSMike]

Cool, so one sample?

I would like to see measurements.

I know of now a bunch of units stacked in a room that are all dimmer than the last year models, and some of those have pretty high hours on the last year models.

I am open to a massive bad batch of bulbs being the cause, and have said so.

But excuse me when I say if I took measurements, they were done in an identical manner between the two units I have here.

Also, the center of my lens is pretty great actually, I find the outer 3rd of the whole lens to be unacceptable.

Here is a repost of a portion of a recent post I made on AVS, there is good news in here somewhere..

Here is the center quadrant on my lens, I think I posted my bad lens shots earlier in this thread, which are only the sides... but anyway, i have no issue at all with the center portion.

9900 on the LEFT / 9500 on the RIGHT.



Pretty  close.  My 9900 would be widely accepted by most  people on this forum if they had no idea what a golden 9500 looked like.

Also regarding my brightness, which was one  of the other major issues I had with my unit, Woofer who has a 9900 right now stacked in his room, also has brightness issues and light meter readings to show it, along with ARROW-AV, Kaoticr1 on AVS, So, actually, it looks  like something is going on here, that's four units we now know of which are dimmer than the 9500 counterparts in a stacked scenario. ODD.

Moving on, I took a couple more pictures this  morning. Namely CMD definitely has an ongoing bug, which also affects  CMD OFF and Low Latency OFF when the projector is first turned on and  probably with some resolution switching, and CMD needs to be Cycled  ON/OFF to remove the bug.

Look just to the right of all the  lettering when CMD is on, there is ghosting, it looks like a green convergence error, but it cannot be, because on the left side of my  9900, is literally the best convergence I have ever seen from a JVC. My  bad convergence is all the way on the other side


CMD  on the new units introduces artefacts when enabled, and also makes the  image softer. Nigel, I would love if you could look at the very same  image I am looking at, photograph like I have, and we can corroborate  data?


I  have 30 hours on this 9900 now... I think I have hit the wall in terms  of comparisons, definitely until I get a new sample, but I don't  honestly expect much to change. Let it be known I am EXTREMELY fussy! It  doesn't help I have a golden sample 9500 here to compare to, what I  call a bad lens is excellently sharp according to others.

I deleted the pictures, so the response would not be so huge. I sent CMD info to JVC and they have verified and passed it on, but They did say they can only see it on the text of the menu and only when up close to the screen. Said they could not see it from viewing distance.

[DavidHir]

Is there a bug with Low Latency set to Off?  On my RS440, I see sometimes a weird soap opera motion effect with it Off.  Seems better turned On.  But I notice by default it's on so maybe it's supposed to be?

[Javs]

I deleted the pictures, so the response would not be so huge. I sent CMD info to JVC and they have verified and passed it on, but They did say they can only see it on the text of the menu and only when up close to the screen. Said they could not see it from viewing distance.

Hey Mike,

It is there on content, harder to see than the very obvious menu since the text on yellow background makes it stand out, but the first place I noticed it was my HTPC desktop after I saw it in the menu, then I noticed it on all my chroma tests.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121490

You can see here it makes the lettering take on a ghosting smearing effect.

This is when I turned ON CMD back when i didnt know what was causing it. Same thing though.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123359

Here is when the bug is present and I am just toggling Low Latency on and off.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121489

And here is my HTPC desktop.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121488

Check out the blue swirls on the scarf, also look at the right side edge of her thumb, there is ghosting with CMD On, kinda looks like ringing in the image, not there with Low Latency ON (Meaning bug is definitely not present), and when CMD is cycled On/Off.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123839

The odd thing is this is here on the 9500 too!

Its 1000% tied to a CMD bug on both projectors, its similar to CMD activation bug, but CMD is NOT functioning in motion when the bug is present, it just presents artefacts for some reason. I have to cycle CMD on/off on both the 9500 and 9900 to get rid of it.

Also, once its gone, if I go into the PJ focus or panel alignment menu, and back out again, the bug is back!

So, every time I power on the unit now, I need to cycle CMD.

And yes I can see this from the chair in the case of my HTPC menu since its pretty clear when artefacts show up there, text takes on a slight ghosting effect which resembles bad panel alignment, its surely robbing both the 9900 and 9500 of some sharpness when the bug is present.

[Javs]

Is there a bug with Low Latency set to Off?  On my RS440, I see sometimes a weird soap opera motion effect with it Off.  Seems better turned On.  But I notice by default it's on so maybe it's supposed to be?

Yes there is still a CMD bug. I havent actually noticed CMD functioning in motion when the bug is present, but read my post above, it outlines that right now the safest way to never have the bug show up is leave Low Latency On.

There is however a really tiny sharpness hit with LL on.

This comparison is most definitely NOT with the CMD bug present, so you can see the real difference between Low Latency OFF/ON, very very slight sharpness hit.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123360

Then consider this, you would be mad to ever use CMD with what it does to the sharpness!

Low Latency OFF (No bug) vs CMD ON

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/123359

[DavidHir]

I don't use CMD at all - off 100% of the time.

In my case, is it best to just leave Low Latency On?  It's weird as I don't see the soap opera effect with Low Latency turned Off all of the time - just sometimes.

[AVSMike]

I don't use CMD at all - off 100% of the time.

In my case, is it best to just leave Low Latency On?  It's weird as I don't see the soap opera effect with Low Latency turned Off all of the time - just sometimes.

I would turn low latency on. Since you are not interested in CMD, no reason not to use low latency mode.

[mrtvgame]

Current set up:
Epson 5030UB on 115 " 16x9 2.4 gain screen

Large family room with plenty ambient light from 2 windows facing West and room opens into kitchen which has large sliding doors also facing West. Windows and doors have blackening curtains and/or blinds when needed. Most viewing is done in the evenings.

Primary usage:
4k TV
4k streaming
HD streaming
UHD 4K bluray
Xbox One X & PS4 Pro gaming

Was looking at the Sony 285 but when it receives a 2160p 60p HDR signal with 10-bit color depth, it will internally process that signal as an 8-bit signal, which will result in visible banding on some material.  I want to avoid that with the JVCs.

I'm in Canada/North America so the model numbers tend to confuse.

Looking at either last years DLA-X770 (RS520 in Europe/UK?). Or this years' DLA-X590 (X5900 in Europe/UK?). The price difference between the two for me is currently at $1250.00

This year's version DLA-X790 is out of my price range.

Is it worth the extra cost to go with last year's X770 versus this year's X590 for my setup/usage?

Not sure between these two and the cost difference.

Any input would be appreciated!

Mike

[AVSCraig]

Current set up:
Epson 5030UB on 115 " 16x9 2.4 gain screen

Large family room with plenty ambient light from 2 windows facing West and room opens into kitchen which has large sliding doors also facing West. Windows and doors have blackening curtains and/or blinds when needed. Most viewing is done in the evenings.

Primary usage:
4k TV
4k streaming
HD streaming
UHD 4K bluray
Xbox One X & PS4 Pro gaming

Was looking at the Sony 285 but when it receives a 2160p 60p HDR signal with 10-bit color depth, it will internally process that signal as an 8-bit signal, which will result in visible banding on some material.  I want to avoid that with the JVCs.

I'm in Canada/North America so the model numbers tend to confuse.

Looking at either last years DLA-X770 (RS520 in Europe/UK?). Or this years' DLA-X590 (X5900 in Europe/UK?). The price difference between the two for me is currently at $1250.00

This year's version DLA-X790 is out of my price range.

Is it worth the extra cost to go with last year's X770 versus this year's X590 for my setup/usage?

Not sure between these two and the cost difference.

Any input would be appreciated!

Mike

Pretty hard to beat the RS520 right now for the price. By the way, the X line is the consumer line, and the RS line is the " professional " line. Same projectors, different markets.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/category.jsp?productId=PRO6.1

[mrtvgame]

Pretty hard to beat the RS520 right now for the price. By the way, the X line is the consumer line, and the RS line is the " professional " line. Same projectors, different markets.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/category.jsp?productId=PRO6.1

Thanks for the input.  Was getting excited about an RS520/X770 when now I am reading about CMD Vertical Banding issue and Fix Update.  Specifically, the current Low Latency issue shows extreme ghosting when using Eshift and Low Latency the same time. So basically Low Latency is unusable/broken for all 4K content/games.
 Like honestly, WTH is wrong with these companies.  At these price points, Sony should not have released the 285 unable to do 10-bit HDR properly and now JVC has issues.  For the money I am about to drop, I need to be able to use this gaming on Xbox One X and PS4 Pro without any hassles. 

From your end, is there going to be a proper fix for the JVCs or shall I wait until next year. lol.  Was hoping to take advantage of closeout pricing on the RS520/X770 now.

[AVSCraig]

Thanks for the input.  Was getting excited about an RS520/X770 when now I am reading about CMD Vertical Banding issue and Fix Update.  Specifically, the current Low Latency issue shows extreme ghosting when using Eshift and Low Latency the same time. So basically Low Latency is unusable/broken for all 4K content/games.
 Like honestly, WTH is wrong with these companies.  At these price points, Sony should not have released the 285 unable to do 10-bit HDR properly and now JVC has issues.  For the money I am about to drop, I need to be able to use this gaming on Xbox One X and PS4 Pro without any hassles. 

From your end, is there going to be a proper fix for the JVCs or shall I wait until next year. lol.  Was hoping to take advantage of closeout pricing on the RS520/X770 now.

I'm not sure why you would need / want to use low latency with 4K Blu-rays / movies, so I don't know if that makes much difference to non gamers. But if you are a gamer that would be important. I'll see what JVC has to say - maybe there is another firmware fix in the works.

[mrtvgame]

I'm not sure why you would need / want to use low latency with 4K Blu-rays / movies, so I don't know if that makes much difference to non gamers. But if you are a gamer that would be important. I'll see what JVC has to say - maybe there is another firmware fix in the works.

No I would only need/want it when playing games and thus the reason I am shying away from the Sony 285, because it is taking 10 bit material and processing as 8-bit.

There is a conversation going on over here that you may want to take a look at.  Appear some different combinations of firmware etc. have it while others don't.  I do not want to have this thing installed on my ceiling only to have to take it down and ship off.  Apparently JVC Canada is very aware but other regions discounting any issue (i.e. Australia).

So it sounds as if the CMD issue was fixed with firmware but in turn it affected the low latency mode.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2798825-discussion-jvc-cmd-vertical-banding-issue-fix-update-10-17-a.html

[AVSMike]

Thanks for the input.  Was getting excited about an RS520/X770 when now I am reading about CMD Vertical Banding issue and Fix Update.  Specifically, the current Low Latency issue shows extreme ghosting when using Eshift and Low Latency the same time. So basically Low Latency is unusable/broken for all 4K content/games.
 Like honestly, WTH is wrong with these companies.  At these price points, Sony should not have released the 285 unable to do 10-bit HDR properly and now JVC has issues.  For the money I am about to drop, I need to be able to use this gaming on Xbox One X and PS4 Pro without any hassles. 

From your end, is there going to be a proper fix for the JVCs or shall I wait until next year. lol.  Was hoping to take advantage of closeout pricing on the RS520/X770 now.

The RS540 and 640 do not have any problem. I tested the low lag with E-shift last night.