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Projectors => Premium Projectors => Topic started by: Don Landis on November 03, 2016, 09:12:31 AM

Title: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: Don Landis on November 03, 2016, 09:12:31 AM
Mike wanted me to start a thread on the projector I bought last winter, the Sony VPL VW665ES.  This was recently replaced by the 675ES with just one obvious minor improvement. 

The 675ES offers 2 HDMI inputs with HDCP2.2 while the 665ES only has HDCP2.2 on Input #2.   This would be important if you have two UHD sources you need to connect that are HDCP 2.2.  However, practically speaking, you really only need one with a legacy, non HDCP 2.2 compliant AVR connected to Input 1 and your UHD player connected to Input 2.  If you have upgraded your AVR to a compatible HDCP, you really only need to connect to input 2.   For the present, that is the way the equipment is designed to work.  The few UHD players out have two HDMI outputs and one is for routing your audio to your legacy AVR. 



Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: AVSCraig on November 03, 2016, 01:18:25 PM
I'm still enjoying my older VW600ES projector ! 
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: Don Landis on November 03, 2016, 02:10:00 PM
I replaced my VW90ES with the 665ES.  It was still serving me fine but decided to move up to 4K.  I'm a big fan of 3D and the 665ES is so much brighter in 3D and overall all 2K content looks great.  That is due to the upscaling system called Reality Creation. 

I kept the 90ES and it is in storage as a backup if the 665ES goes down.  The good thing with these two is that the mount can be switched over with 4 screws.  If I chose another brand, for the 4K upgrade, I would have had to make a new mount. 
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: Dylan Seeger on November 30, 2016, 02:18:26 PM
I replaced my VW90ES with the 665ES.  It was still serving me fine but decided to move up to 4K.  I'm a big fan of 3D and the 665ES is so much brighter in 3D and overall all 2K content looks great.  That is due to the upscaling system called Reality Creation. 

I kept the 90ES and it is in storage as a backup if the 665ES goes down.  The good thing with these two is that the mount can be switched over with 4 screws.  If I chose another brand, for the 4K upgrade, I would have had to make a new mount.

It's interesting to note that you love 3D and create a lot of 3D content yourself. Is there a reason you haven't gone with a DLP projector, which would yield the best crosstalk performance? Even the current line up of JVC units is much better than the 665ES in this regard, are a little brighter and offer more contrast for an all around better 3D experience? I just sold a 665ES. I had it hear for nearly a month and did many comparisons to it against the RS500 I had stacked underneath it. 3D was no-contest better on the JVC as was all around 2D performance as well.
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: jlanzy on December 01, 2016, 01:24:17 PM
I see the Sony pjs, except maybe the 5000ES, are limited to 10Gbps vs 18 on the JVCs, and have 87% P3 vs 100% on JVCs.

Are the speed limitations relevant to UHD BR or UHD streaming?  I understand that games that play at 60fps need the higher speed, but beyond that are there other needs over the next 2-3 years for the higher speed?

Is the 13% less P3 on the Sony visibly noticed compared to same material on JVC, if so is it very noticeable or minimally noticeable?  In other words, having seen a BR UHD on the Sony, then the JVC RS500/600, say, holy cow, the colors are so much better because of that extra 13% P3 ?
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: AVSMike on December 01, 2016, 05:11:31 PM
I see the Sony pjs, except maybe the 5000ES, are limited to 10Gbps vs 18 on the JVCs, and have 87% P3 vs 100% on JVCs.

Are the speed limitations relevant to UHD BR or UHD streaming?  I understand that games that play at 60fps need the higher speed, but beyond that are there other needs over the next 2-3 years for the higher speed?

Is the 13% less P3 on the Sony visibly noticed compared to same material on JVC, if so is it very noticeable or minimally noticeable?  In other words, having seen a BR UHD on the Sony, then the JVC RS500/600, say, holy cow, the colors are so much better because of that extra 13% P3 ?

The JVC having the 18Gbps chips and able to have BT2020 mapped to DCI color space is more future proof, but you are probably safe for a couple years with the Sony. As for the color space, there is a difference, but unless you see them side by side, you are not going to be able to tell. Put it this way, commercial theaters have been using DCI color space for years. Did you ever go home right after seeing a movie that the commercial theater and say to yourself, wish my colors in my theater looked that good? Now you combine higher resolution, higher bit rate and wider color space and you have a nice jump in picture improvement.
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: jlanzy on December 01, 2016, 05:39:35 PM
The JVC having the 18Gbps chips and able to have BT2020 mapped to DCI color space is more future proof, but you are probably safe for a couple years with the Sony. As for the color space, there is a difference, but unless you see them side by side, you are not going to be able to tell. Put it this way, commercial theaters have been using DCI color space for years. Did you ever go home right after seeing a movie that the commercial theater and say to yourself, wish my colors in my theater looked that good? Now you combine higher resolution, higher bit rate and wider color space and you have a nice jump in picture improvement.

Thanks Mike, that is what I have surmised from the forum reports on these 2 projectors.  The remaining differences seem to be more personal choice than better technology in one or the other.

Do we know if the calibrated brightness or black levels are noticeably improved on the 675ES.  It seems the major change lies in a future proofing for HDR ?
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: AVSMike on December 01, 2016, 05:59:55 PM
Thanks Mike, that is what I have surmised from the forum reports on these 2 projectors.  The remaining differences seem to be more personal choice than better technology in one or the other.

Do we know if the calibrated brightness or black levels are noticeably improved on the 675ES.  It seems the major change lies in a future proofing for HDR ?

The black levels on the Sony are not as good as the black levels of the JVC, but then again, no other projector can compete against JVC for black level either. The 675 is a very slight update over the 665, so there is only a slight improvement in contrast and brightness.
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: Ron Jones on December 01, 2016, 06:27:57 PM
Mike wanted me to start a thread on the projector I bought last winter, the Sony VPL VW665ES.  This was recently replaced by the 675ES with just one obvious minor improvement. 

The 675ES offers 2 HDMI inputs with HDCP2.2 while the 665ES only has HDCP2.2 on Input #2.   This would be important if you have two UHD sources you need to connect that are HDCP 2.2.  However, practically speaking, you really only need one with a legacy, non HDCP 2.2 compliant AVR connected to Input 1 and your UHD player connected to Input 2.  If you have upgraded your AVR to a compatible HDCP, you really only need to connect to input 2.   For the present, that is the way the equipment is designed to work.  The few UHD players out have two HDMI outputs and one is for routing your audio to your legacy AVR.

If I recall correctly, I thought the Sony reps at CEDIA were also saying the 675ES had improvements related to HDR.
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: bmoney on December 02, 2016, 07:27:03 AM
any plans for sony to make a PJ for 4k that competes directly with the rs400/500/600?
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: AVSMike on December 02, 2016, 05:55:07 PM
any plans for sony to make a PJ for 4k that competes directly with the rs400/500/600?

I doubt it, since the JVC's are not 4K. I think it will require some 4K native competition to get Sony to lower their prices.
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: AVSCraig on December 05, 2016, 10:39:17 AM
The black levels on the Sony are not as good as the black levels of the JVC, but then again, no other projector can compete against JVC for black level either. The 675 is a very slight update over the 665, so there is only a slight improvement in contrast and brightness.

It's pretty easy to see the contrast difference between the VW600 I have and the RS600. No contest !
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: AVSMike on December 05, 2016, 11:03:34 AM
It's pretty easy to see the contrast difference between the VW600 I have and the RS600. No contest !

I was talking about a slight improvement in contrast going from VW665 to VW675. There is a big difference in contrast between any Sony and a JVC RS600.
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: jkasanic on December 05, 2016, 12:22:30 PM
I was talking about a slight improvement in contrast going from VW665 to VW675. There is a big difference in contrast between any Sony and a JVC RS600.

I'm only guessing but I'd think you don't have to go all the way to the RS600 to see an appreciable difference in contrast to the VW665.  Wouldn't the RS400 (and for sure the RS500) also be "noticeable" to a slightly lesser extent?
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: AVSMike on December 07, 2016, 03:08:24 PM
I'm only guessing but I'd think you don't have to go all the way to the RS600 to see an appreciable difference in contrast to the VW665.  Wouldn't the RS400 (and for sure the RS500) also be "noticeable" to a slightly lesser extent?

Since the VW675 has a dynamic iris, you might be harder pressed to see the difference with the 400, but you would be able to see it with the 500 or 600. Don't get me wrong, the 675 throws a great image and it has some attributes that I wish JVC had.
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: HarperVision on December 12, 2016, 03:33:36 PM
So they never did update the HDMI on the 675ES to 18Gbps, right?
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: AVSMike on December 12, 2016, 07:50:27 PM
So they never did update the HDMI on the 675ES to 18Gbps, right?

Correct, not full 18Gbps.
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: AVSMike on December 17, 2016, 08:30:28 AM
Good news for A-lens users, Oppo 203 can do vertical stretch on 4K content, as long as the disc does not prohibit it. This is really good news for Sony owners. Previously, you would have had to purchase a Lumagen video processor.
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: Dylan Seeger on January 01, 2017, 07:39:03 PM
Good news for A-lens users, Oppo 203 can do vertical stretch on 4K content, as long as the disc does not prohibit it. This is really good news for Sony owners. Previously, you would have had to purchase a Lumagen video processor.

They can prohibit such things by request on the disc?
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: AVSMike on January 03, 2017, 08:50:15 AM
They can prohibit such things by request on the disc?

Yes they can. Oppo owners that used the vertical stretch every now and then would run across a BD (1080P) that would not allow vertical stretch. I don't know that it is so much a matter of restricting it on purpose or just a matter of not not quite implementing everything correctly on the disc. The percentage of A-lens owners is so small compared to the rest of the BD buying public, that if a mistake was made, they certainly are not going to go back and correct it.
Title: Re: Sony VPL VW665ES and the new VW675ES
Post by: Ccool96 on February 07, 2017, 12:07:33 AM
Correct, not full 18Gbps.

But unlike the 666ES which was limited to 4K/60 4:2:0 8bit, the new 675ES, can handle 4K/60 4:2:0 10bit HDR.

So that makes the 675ES capable of HDR on 4k/60 sources like the Roku Ultra, and many of the new 4K HDR gaming consoles.
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