AVS Discussions

Projectors => CRT Projectors => Topic started by: Jbmeyer13 on November 03, 2016, 07:29:21 AM

Title: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Jbmeyer13 on November 03, 2016, 07:29:21 AM
I remember joining the original AVS forum back in 2000 when CRT was the most active section of the board.  In those days the Chris Stephens modified Marquee was the top CRT projector and when coupled with the Teranex/Faroudja combo it was the prelude to native HD.

Around the time Reference Imaging (Chris Stephens company) went under Mike Parker took over the mantle as the preminent Marquee modder and has continued adapting the platform ever since.  Over the past few years Kurt (Stridsvognen) has stepped into the game and has kept the momentum moving forward.

Kurt's approach is unique in that he's similar to the original field techs from back in the day who would travel with a van full of spare parts.  However, he also modifies and calibrates the projectors.  This holistic method involves traveling with a multitude of spare parts to aid in chasing down and eliminating issues effecting the video chain.  The proliferation of late model government surplus projectors flooding the market and his never ending quest to test and identify the optimal combination of Marquee parts offered across the last 20-years has led to a top performing projector/video chain which is also stable and consistent.

I've had a Marquee for 16-years and can confidently say that this current incarnation provides for the most natural image I've yet witnessed.  It's a huge step forward from what was available just 5-years ago and has breathed new life into the hobby.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on November 03, 2016, 04:04:41 PM
Justin, it was a huge pleasure to work on your Marquee in your new home theater room.. If you were a bit closer i would drop in with beer and snack just to watch a movie from time to time.

The 16fl, and 2.600.000.000:1 contrast made Harry potter an unike experience in 1080P 72hz ( 195Mhz pixel clock)
Ill go with that setup any day over any digital low contrast UHD HDR thing in this world today.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Jbmeyer13 on November 04, 2016, 07:55:06 AM
One of the things that sticks out in my mind is our discussions about UHD technology having a "Wow" factor but not necessarily being more accurate.  There's no question that it's a supreme technological achievement that should command the respect of any videophile but to your point; nobody sees the individual blades of grass when looking at a putting green on a golf course.  Right now the UHD demos we've seen, while insanely sharp, definitely lacked the natural flow which we are seeing on the modded Marquees.  It's the closest thing to 35mm film that I've yet witnessed in a home cinema.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: ellisr63 on November 05, 2016, 12:52:50 PM
What kind of life are you getting out of the CRTs?
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on November 05, 2016, 04:04:06 PM
It depends on the projector and tube type.. With a Marquee 9500 with LCP tubes its really hard to burn up those tubes.. ill bet they will run 15000hours + if setup right.. I seen 500-3000 hour ones that had no visible sign of wear whatsoever.
But if you go for LUG tubes and a SONY G90 you might be into the tube burning buisness changing tubes every 5000 hours, more or less. all depending how hard you drive it.. From simulator projectors it looks to me like they run 20000-25000 hours on green and blue, and longer on red, using very little of the tube face.

The difference with the CRT is that many of them will just keep on going, while the digital models just drop dead.. Think its hard to find something today that can be expected to last more than 2-7 years, where these machines many are 20 years + old and still running, also its possible and worth repairing them if you have the right ones.

If some would expend the same kind of money on a good 9" CRT projector as they do on some digitals .. like 8-10K$ they would sure get a CRT with instalation setup and calibration.. But CRT is mostly a diy thing these days with very mixed results.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: ellisr63 on November 05, 2016, 04:11:58 PM
WOW... I never knew they tubes lasted that long!
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: ellisr63 on November 05, 2016, 04:25:52 PM
It depends on the projector and tube type.. With a Marquee 9500 with LCP tubes its really hard to burn up those tubes.. ill bet they will run 15000hours + if setup right.. I seen 500-3000 hour ones that had no visible sign of wear whatsoever.
But if you go for LUG tubes and a SONY G90 you might be into the tube burning buisness changing tubes every 5000 hours, more or less. all depending how hard you drive it.. From simulator projectors it looks to me like they run 20000-25000 hours on green and blue, and longer on red, using very little of the tube face.

The difference with the CRT is that many of them will just keep on going, while the digital models just drop dead.. Think its hard to find something today that can be expected to last more than 2-7 years, where these machines many are 20 years + old and still running, also its possible and worth repairing them if you have the right ones.

If some would expend the same kind of money on a good 9" CRT projector as they do on some digitals .. like 8-10K$ they would sure get a CRT with installation setup and calibration.. But CRT is mostly a diy thing these days with very mixed results.
I just did a search, and these are very reasonably priced used. How expensive are the tubes if they need to be replaced? Do they have tubes available that can get the lumens up higher for a 15' wide scope screen by chance?
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on November 05, 2016, 05:10:05 PM
The projectors are not expensive, but the experience to setup and tweak it is..

To light up a 15 fot wide screen you would need a blend, and then it starts to cost , 2 projectors with matched tubes and electronics.. Blend unit is 6000-50.000$ depending how good you would want it, setup is like 8 times or more timeconsuming.. So its really not the way to go unless your loadet, and can aford it.. At that point its "the" shit..

For a good 9" CRT ill recommend a 6,5-8fot wide screen, a 100" 16:9 screen would be the optimum solution in my mind.

If you have 80K$, the roome and screen ill be happy to do you a 15 food wide scope blend all inclusive. ;)

Tubes are plenty, you can even buy new LUG tubes around 1200$ pr tube.. NOS ones cheaper, but you need a eye open.. there is lots.. so its just to get them when they are for sale.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: ellisr63 on November 06, 2016, 08:41:36 AM
Thanks for the info. I guess until I win the Lotto... I will not be trying out CRTs again.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Greg9518LC on November 22, 2016, 11:44:30 AM
JB now that your crt is dialed in what is up next on your wish list for the Marquee?
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Jbmeyer13 on November 23, 2016, 06:04:59 AM
For the first time ever I'm pretty content.  The image is so dynamic; it's hard to imagine 1080p being resolved any better than it is.  I'm sure there's always some little tweaks to play with but I don't think it's anything that will make a truly material difference to the image quality.

Right now I'm focusing on the finishing work in the theater (millwork, AT panels, audio calibration, new seating) so that's going to tie me up until next Summer.  Every time I sit down to watch something I feel like I need to name my next child Kurt ;D
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on November 23, 2016, 11:10:43 AM
For the first time ever I'm pretty content.  The image is so dynamic; it's hard to imagine 1080p being resolved any better than it is.  I'm sure there's always some little tweaks to play with but I don't think it's anything that will make a truly material difference to the image quality.

Right now I'm focusing on the finishing work in the theater (millwork, AT panels, audio calibration, new seating) so that's going to tie me up until next Summer.  Every time I sit down to watch something I feel like I need to name my next child Kurt ;D

Then ill have to recommend you not getting more children.. ;)
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Greg9518LC on November 23, 2016, 06:15:32 PM
I agree there is nothing left on my wish list I cannot imagine a 1080p being resolved any better than what we have now but never say never. My convergence has not moved since Kurt left my house even with 2 projectors and 10 tubes and magnetics sitting under my projector. That amazes me to say the least. Since I am dialed in I am going to black velvet the entire theater this winter. Walls and ceiling and eliminate all reflections. A true bat cave. Here is what I gave now.c curtains will be gone and ceiling will have panels made.(http://i.imgur.com/0AqBka0.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/aes3dIc.jpg) Then some black furniture.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Greg9518LC on November 23, 2016, 08:25:01 PM
Left over black cloth huge improvement over flat black ceiling paint. Just by adding this picture jumps out of screen will be buying the triple black velvet this week.
(http://i.imgur.com/aes3dIc.jpg)
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on November 24, 2016, 03:20:50 AM
Be carefull you dont get lost down there, even with the light on..
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: ellisr63 on November 24, 2016, 08:02:48 AM
We used triple black velvet for our stage, but we used the black velvet used in telescopes for the ceiling area in front of the screen...literally a black hole for light absorption.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Greg9518LC on November 24, 2016, 11:03:41 AM
Be carefull you dont get lost down there, even with the light on..
Yes it is already a hole but nothing like a black hole. The reflections on the ceiling is a huge distraction
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Jbmeyer13 on November 30, 2016, 06:55:46 AM
I used Joann Royal 3 fabric on my AT panels across the false wall and that stuff EATS light like nothing else.  It's also AT and neither Kurt or I noticed any clipping of high frequencies.  Once I get some eggcrate behind the screen and some diffusion panels on the side walls it will really take things up a notch.

BTW- most any flat dark fabric will absorb light better than any black paint.  One of the other reasons I'm excited about AT diffusion panels is that they will also eliminate any remaining side wall reflections.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: bmoney on November 30, 2016, 08:13:41 AM
I used Joann Royal 3 fabric on my AT panels across the false wall and that stuff EATS light like nothing else.  It's also AT and neither Kurt or I noticed any clipping of high frequencies.  Once I get some eggcrate behind the screen and some diffusion panels on the side walls it will really take things up a notch.

BTW- most any flat dark fabric will absorb light better than any black paint.  One of the other reasons I'm excited about AT diffusion panels is that they will also eliminate any remaining side wall reflections.

really? I always thought the joanns velvet wasnt AT.  In fact I stopped using my masking panels for 1.85 movies as the masks block the L and R behind the screen :/...hmmm
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: ellisr63 on November 30, 2016, 09:01:37 AM
I used Joann Royal 3 fabric on my AT panels across the false wall and that stuff EATS light like nothing else.  It's also AT and neither Kurt or I noticed any clipping of high frequencies.  Once I get some eggcrate behind the screen and some diffusion panels on the side walls it will really take things up a notch.

BTW- most any flat dark fabric will absorb light better than any black paint.  One of the other reasons I'm excited about AT diffusion panels is that they will also eliminate any remaining side wall reflections.

I used it for my frame around my screen, and also on my soffit bass traps, but I was told it was AT for bass frequencys. Have you tried the breath test on it too?
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: bmoney on November 30, 2016, 09:55:13 AM
I used it for my frame around my screen, and also on my soffit bass traps, but I was told it was AT for bass frequencys. Have you tried the breath test on it too?

the breath test is where I found it to be NOT AT
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: ellisr63 on November 30, 2016, 10:12:17 AM
the breath test is where I found it to be NOT AT
That is what I had thought too. I will have to see if I have a piece large enough to test on one of my surround channels.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: bmoney on November 30, 2016, 10:52:39 AM
That is what I had thought too. I will have to see if I have a piece large enough to test on one of my surround channels.

great idea..I think i have some lying around as well
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on November 30, 2016, 11:25:00 AM
The hole room treatment is kind of important with CRT to give the ansi contrast all the help it can get, but when displaying a digital in a totaly black room it puts extra focus on the missing ability to go all black, i hope it will soon be my turn to do the room treatment in a new HT.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on November 30, 2016, 12:39:33 PM
To get a bit more into the topic, evolution of CRT ill show a pic of a few of the DACs/ converters i been testing, and modding in combination with different boards in the projector, just to get to where i am today.
These are all Moome converters, that slide into the projector, most dual HDMI input. ( now who would not wish they had a replacable HDMI board in the digital projector..) Most of them for Marquee, and i build a adaptor to thest the SONY cards in the Marquee as well.

Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Jbmeyer13 on November 30, 2016, 01:25:26 PM
the breath test is where I found it to be NOT AT
Joann's sells multiple velvets.  The royalty 3 is comprised of nearly 70% acetate which makes it more breathable than other variants.  Just as a precaution I used a needle to further perforate the fabric around the drivers and removed the plastic speaker grille covers.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Jbmeyer13 on November 30, 2016, 01:27:54 PM
To get a bit more into the topic, evolution of CRT ill show a pic of a few of the DACs/ converters i been testing, and modding in combination with different boards in the projector, just to get to where i am today.
These are all Moome converters, that slide into the projector, most dual HDMI input. ( now who would not wish they had a replacable HDMI board in the digital projector..) Most of them for Marquee, and i build a adaptor to thest the SONY cards in the Marquee as well.

Do you feel you've solved that piece of the puzzle or are there further benefits to be gained?  Those cards are finicky to say the least and improving their long term reliability would be ideal.  Would be nice if Moome would just build something rated to pass 200mhz;-)
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on November 30, 2016, 04:10:14 PM
Do you feel you've solved that piece of the puzzle or are there further benefits to be gained?  Those cards are finicky to say the least and improving their long term reliability would be ideal.  Would be nice if Moome would just build something rated to pass 200mhz;-)

I setteled on a Moome mod i like the best, its pretty close to what you got, think there is 3 resistor on yours i would want to remove, not sure how much of a difference it will make other than gain. The DAC is running into a 38 ohm load normaly, and if im right yours is loadet a bit lower, maybe 30ohm, its to do with the termination on the vim and on the moome.

I doubt there will be a higher bandwidth Moome card as i doubt there is much sales left anymore, there was talk about a new HDMI 2.0 card, but so far there has been no confirmation of that, and i dont know if there is any dacs capable of 200Mhz + pixel clock.
Last i looked Moomes home page was no longer active.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: DavidHir on December 14, 2016, 09:45:26 AM
I have appreciation for CRT as I first got into home theater in late 1999.  In early 2000 (Jan if I recall), my Dad bought a 61" Sony RPTV (4:3, 480i) and that's when it all started for me. 

I ended up buying a 57" Sony HD CRT RPTV (16:9, 1080i) in 2004 as it was the last model they made as they were being phased out, but I still remember those great blacks and analog looking image.

I've never seen a CRT front projector, but glad I don't have to deal with that as ceiling mounting those beasts must have been crazy and not sure it could even be support in my current theater room where my JVC ceiling mounts from inside of my closet.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on December 14, 2016, 10:55:40 PM
I have appreciation for CRT as I first got into home theater in late 1999.  In early 2000 (Jan if I recall), my Dad bought a 61" Sony RPTV (4:3, 480i) and that's when it all started for me. 

I ended up buying a 57" Sony HD CRT RPTV (16:9, 1080i) in 2004 as it was the last model they made as they were being phased out, but I still remember those great blacks and analog looking image.

I've never seen a CRT front projector, but glad I don't have to deal with that as ceiling mounting those beasts must have been crazy and not sure it could even be support in my current theater room where my JVC ceiling mounts from inside of my closet.

It sure is not for everybody, you need to want it, and be pretty hardcore to go true with it..  Some years i got a taste of it, and was sold right away, but i sure hope that there some day will be a new digital projector that have some of the CRT qualities..
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: alangouger on December 28, 2016, 08:16:25 PM
What is the status of CRT these days? I always felt nothing beat the image of CRT they look like an oil painting on the screen. As good as Digital is it still does not compare to a good CRT.
How wide of a screen are you guys doing these days?
Where do you get your support and parts?
Is there still a good source for projectors and parts?
Are further advancements still being made?

Good to see the CRT club keeping the sport alive.

Thank you!
 
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on December 29, 2016, 12:40:54 PM
For me its all alive, but ill guess with UHD comming up more and more will skip CRT,  as it looks to me the HD blu ray format is like perfect for the best CRT ( Marquee :-*)
I have collected close to 30 Marquee projectors, think ill be able to build close to 20 pcs with mint or new tubes.. so my personal sparepart depo is douing well.
the last few years the goverment has sold like around 500 Marquee projectors, lots of them were NIB NOS ones, so with the few CRT users left, and the huge amount of surplus projectors dumped out from simulator, planetarium instalations, i doubt we will be able to deplete Marquee parts.
New tubes are still produced, so its just a question of paying the price.

New mods are still under construction, after a lot of years with Mike Parker as the only one modding the Marquee videochain with mixed results, there is now more players in that game as well. So in near future there is now hope of buying stable well working mods, that can deliver in a decent timeframe.

The screen size is normaly 90-110" depending of personal preferences, a 90" can deliver a very dynamic punchy image.. 110" is also nice, as the size is a bit more impressive, but it will be hard to push more than 10fl without compromising the image quality to much.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Jbmeyer13 on December 30, 2016, 06:42:26 AM
What is the status of CRT these days? I always felt nothing beat the image of CRT they look like an oil painting on the screen. As good as Digital is it still does not compare to a good CRT.
How wide of a screen are you guys doing these days?
Where do you get your support and parts?
Is there still a good source for projectors and parts?
Are further advancements still being made?

Good to see the CRT club keeping the sport alive.

Thank you!

Hey Alan,

My current Marquee was one of Galen's projectors; believe he sold you a similar one some years ago.  I'm running a 100" screen and with Strids help I'm cranking out 14ftl with a truly spectacular dynamic range.  The recent improvements have really taken the low end performance to another level; the ability to come out of black in a linear fashion is far superior to what it was just a few years ago let alone 10-yrs back.

There's no question that to achieve this with a Marquee is a lot of work and isn't for everyone.  Having said, with a BD source it provides for the most natural film like image.  Eventually (once all the color space issue are sorted out), there will be a 4K or 8K PJ that can display a 120"+ image from UHD sources that should be the next level in image fidelity.  I have a feeling it will be a good while before that becomes a reality.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Andreas21 on January 17, 2017, 12:16:37 AM
Justin, it was a huge pleasure to work on your Marquee in your new home theater room.. If you were a bit closer i would drop in with beer and snack just to watch a movie from time to time.

The 16fl, and 2.600.000.000:1 contrast made Harry potter an unike experience in 1080P 72hz ( 195Mhz pixel clock)
Ill go with that setup any day over any digital low contrast UHD HDR thing in this world today.

I have a question about these numbers. How did you measure this on/off to 2.600.000.000:1 with 16fl, this will give you a black reading of 0,0000000062fl?
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on January 17, 2017, 08:52:23 AM
I have a question about these numbers. How did you measure this on/off to 2.600.000.000:1 with 16fl, this will give you a black reading of 0,0000000062fl?

Its kind of a useless nr, as it was not able to measure any light at all.. So off was black as you wont find your own nose.. So infinite on off contrast would be more right, but i guess HCFR just calculate it a bit funky.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Andreas21 on January 17, 2017, 10:08:10 AM
Its kind of a useless nr, as it was not able to measure any light at all.. So off was black as you wont find your own nose.. So infinite on off contrast would be more right, but i guess HCFR just calculate it a bit funky.

What meter do you use?

And even more important, what do you measure with 1 % white? :D

I also see the coordinates for white is way off, why is this?
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on January 17, 2017, 11:02:20 AM
What meter do you use?

And even more important, what do you measure with 1 % white? :D

I also see the coordinates for white is way off, why is this?

Andreas this is Justins thread, and i dont want to pick up your mission against CRT here, we all know your motives from other forums.. Let it go, if you should develope a interest in CRT nobody is stopping you from buying one.  Maybe Per J in Norway will like to help you.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Andreas21 on January 17, 2017, 11:40:23 AM
Andreas this is Justins thread, and i dont want to pick up your mission against CRT here, we all know your motives from other forums.. Let it go, if you should develope a interest in CRT nobody is stopping you from buying one.  Maybe Per J in Norway will like to help you.


I am just asking some questions, am I not allowed? These are serious questions towards you and the equipment you use, I am just curious. ;)

And why do you think I am on a quest against CRT?? I have nothing against CRT, but I have something against misinformation.  When reading your posts in here it is clear what your mission is...
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Jbmeyer13 on January 17, 2017, 11:55:16 AM
I am just asking some questions, am I not allowed? These are serious questions towards you and the equipment you use, I am just curious. ;)

And why do you think I am on a quest against CRT?? I have nothing against CRT, but I have something against misinformation.  When reading your posts in here it is clear what your mission is...

Where is the misinformation in this thread?
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: Andreas21 on January 17, 2017, 12:01:13 PM
Where is the misinformation in this thread?

I did not specify he posted any misinformation in this tread. :D
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: ask4me2 on January 18, 2017, 03:06:09 PM
Just saw the two Sin City I and II movies on the G90 and these BD films looks very good with total black between some of the chapters, and lots of sharp pictures with black an white contrast  etc..

The light output of 0% ire signals is nice, on the CRT but if you stand at the screen and look toward the projector when it's at normal running temperature, there often is a glow of light coming from the green phosphor. I have seen that on all the different CRT projectors I have used the last 15 years, so I don't think the on/off contrast is anything near the 2.600.000.000:1 numbers. The good thing is that the picture on the screen looks black even if the eyes have adapted to the total black room, so black is "disturbingly" black.
The best JVC lamp DI projectors these days also looks black in short movie blackouts, but when the eyes have adapted to the low light level, the total black illusion is lost. The Epson LS10xxx with laser light "bulb"  can actually go totally black, but there is a disturbance in "force".... there is a sudden light output when the laser is turning back on, so CRT is still high end at the low end :)

Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on January 18, 2017, 03:55:42 PM
Just saw the two Sin City I and II movies on the G90 and these BD films looks very good with total black between some of the chapters, and lots of sharp pictures with black an white contrast  etc..

The light output of 0% ire signals is nice, on the CRT but if you stand at the screen and look toward the projector when it's at normal running temperature, there often is a glow of light coming from the green phosphor. I have seen that on all the different CRT projectors I have used the last 15 years, so I don't think the on/off contrast is anything near the 2.600.000.000:1 numbers. The good thing is that the picture on the screen looks black even if the eyes have adapted to the total black room, so black is "disturbingly" black.
The best JVC lamp DI projectors these days also looks black in short movie blackouts, but when the eyes have adapted to the low light level, the total black illusion is lost. The Epson LS10xxx with laser light "bulb"  can actually go totally black, but there is a disturbance in "force".... there is a sudden light output when the laser is turning back on, so CRT is still high end at the low end :)

I think thats how its going to be untill we get a digital tech for HT where the light source is the panels.. and not a lamp, no matter if its a laser lamp or a normal lamp.. turning off the lamp will sure make it go black.. It a bit like measuring the on off contrast pulling the power plug when measuring off/ black, it dont have much relevance. So you have a dark sky with 2 bright stars on it.. do you turn off the lamp to get a decent black or turn it full on to get the stars at the level they are surposed to be.. To me its not much more than a gimick feature like auto iris to try fix something that dont work, but do so by adding a new problem.

No standard CRT is anywhere near perfect out of black, as some parts of the signal gets clipped while clamping the signal, the green phosfor decay/ glow have no energy, so it will never be able to put anything measurable on the display, but setting the brightness to dislay 1% IRE on the screen mostly elevate black so it will look a bit like a DLP projector, so most CRT projectors will clip up to around 3% IRE to maintain a decent black, and if you come perfect out of black on CRT you have a gamma around 2.6, wich i thin call for as much light as it can deliver to get a decent ramp out of black. Around 14-16 fl works the best to me with that high gamma, and then its also a very dynamic image.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on May 24, 2017, 05:04:19 PM
The last evolution of CRT is here..

One is right the other is wrong.. Wich one..?
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: ask4me2 on May 26, 2017, 03:38:13 PM
The last evolution of CRT is here..

One is right the other is wrong.. Wich one..?

I am using a 65" quantum dot TV to see these pictures, so both are probably wrong when it comes to the correct CRT projector look. The one on the left looks like it is unfocused and crushing the details in black and maybe have a to much de-focus on the blue or a convergence error or a lot of the typical setup errors that may occur on a CRT projector . The right one looks sharper and have more details in the darker areas, but i don't know the original material so that picture may be way  off too ?
The best way i know to check the PQ in screenshots is to save a frame from the BluRay as a picture file, and project that picture with the projector when taking the screenshot. The screenshot and the reference BD snapshot can then be looked at on a different screen and the screenshot then shows what the projector and the camera is doing different.
Title: Re: Evolution of CRT
Post by: stridsvognen on May 26, 2017, 11:54:06 PM
I am using a 65" quantum dot TV to see these pictures, so both are probably wrong when it comes to the correct CRT projector look. The one on the left looks like it is unfocused and crushing the details in black and maybe have a to much de-focus on the blue or a convergence error or a lot of the typical setup errors that may occur on a CRT projector . The right one looks sharper and have more details in the darker areas, but i don't know the original material so that picture may be way  off too ?
The best way i know to check the PQ in screenshots is to save a frame from the BluRay as a picture file, and project that picture with the projector when taking the screenshot. The screenshot and the reference BD snapshot can then be looked at on a different screen and the screenshot then shows what the projector and the camera is doing different.

So true.. screenshots is as much about the camera as it is the projector,and then the monitor you watch the pictures on.

The reason for the left shot was mainly that the guy that posted that one had the idea that he was capable of telling how badly the videochain in the projector on the right worked, lookin on that exact screnshot, telling that it had muted colors due to bandwidth limitations.
So the projector was afterwords calibrated with reference to a screencap. ( result posted below)

The all knowing person with the ability to point out specifik errors in the videochain, and maker of the left screenshot is Mike Parker whos selling Marquee modifications, wich are often very troublesome, so i think his judgment is clouded by his financial involvement.
The main point was, dont judge someone elses gear based on a screenshot when you dont have the skills yourself to setup mod and calibrate a projector, and afterwords capture it with a camera.

So in the case of screenshots, its a combined art of setting up the entire system, from player to the image file out of the camera.