AVS Discussions
Home Theater Construction => Design => Topic started by: NBPk402 on November 06, 2016, 12:31:24 PM
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If I was to rebuild my HT, I would do the following:
1: Eliminate the hallway leading to our HT
2: Have the HVAC be dedicated to the HT instead of as an additional zone
3: Have a lower stage with the equipment inside it
4: Install 4 subs with each centered on each wall.
5: If I was to use my current amps, I would install them in a different room to eliminate the fan noise, or go back to fan-less amps.
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How about not storing the equipment behind a perforated screen, with all the lights shining through. (This was done at the first home theater company I worked for!)
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If I was to rebuild my HT, I would do the following:
1: Eliminate the hallway leading to our HT
2: Have the HVAC be dedicated to the HT instead of as an additional zone
3: Have a lower stage with the equipment inside it
4: Install 4 subs with each centered on each wall.
5: If I was to use my current amps, I would install them in a different room to eliminate the fan noise, or go back to fan-less amps.
I love the Idea of #4, putting the subs on the center of each wall. I've done this and measured the room response with the subs in different places, and the center-wall locations measured the flattest. This was the best sounding location, too.
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I love the Idea of #4, putting the subs on the center of each wall. I've done this and measured the room response with the subs in different places, and the center-wall locations measured the flattest. This was the best sounding location, too.
I read somewhere before that Harmon Industries did testing and found that the center of the wall was the best location. We went with one in the front and one in the rear, and hindsight is we should have went center of the wall left and right as I believe we would have better bass than we currently have.
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How about not storing the equipment behind a perforated screen, with all the lights shining through. (This was done at the first home theater company I worked for!)
LOL
We built a wall to the side of our screen (about 8' long) with all the equipment facing forward, then we put our first reflection panels in, and they block all the lights from the equipment. I still think it would have been better to be below the screen with black GOM covering the front.
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LOL
We built a wall to the side of our screen (about 8' long) with all the equipment facing forward, then we put our first reflection panels in, and they block all the lights from the equipment. I still think it would have been better to be below the screen with black GOM covering the front.
I actually like equipment at the rear of the room so I can't see it.
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I actually like equipment at the rear of the room so I can't see it.
That is the way I have always had it in the past too. As I recall we put it on the side because there was a support beam that was in the way if we moved the speakers over more.
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I actually like equipment at the rear of the room so I can't see it.
I have it next to me so I can see what speakers are active in my 9.2.4 setup and to see how far we are into a bluray movie without using the on screen info banner, we always take an intermission break for bathroom break and to get dessert :) The equip lights are outside of my peripheral vision so unless I look at them I really don't see them.
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Bigger room. The sound and image in my room is very good, but Seating and throw distance are limited. Problem is, I would either need to build on or buy a new house.
I have my equipment outside my room and if I had it to do all over again, I would go this same route. In fact, I would probably put the projector outside the room also.
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Bigger room. The sound and image in my room is very good, but Seating and throw distance are limited. Problem is, I would either need to build on or buy a new house.
I have my equipment outside my room and if I had it to do all over again, I would go this same route. In fact, I would probably put the projector outside the room also.
How big is your room? Ours is 25' x 19' x 9', and I also would like more space... I am thinking about 5' larger all around would be great.
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I have it next to me so I can see what speakers are active in my 9.2.4 setup and to see how far we are into a bluray movie without using the on screen info banner, we always take an intermission break for bathroom break and to get dessert :) The equip lights are outside of my peripheral vision so unless I look at them I really don't see them.
Good point... I usually use the on screen info to see what is going on, but then again my rack is 100% hidden too. ;)
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About the only thing I would change would be a longer throw distance so I could install a somewhat bigger screen. Just like Mike, that would require adding a 2 story addition to the house - something that will never happen. So, perhaps I'll move the seating forward a little more, if my wife won't call me on it !
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About the only thing I would change would be a longer throw distance so I could install a somewhat bigger screen. Just like Mike, that would require adding a 2 story addition to the house - something that will never happen. So, perhaps I'll move the seating forward a little more, if my wife won't call me on it !
I am lucky...when we bought the house as I negotiated with my wife. I can do whatever I like with my HT, and our pond. I consult her though when I have ideas and listen to what she suggests, but ultimately it is my decision.
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Well,
#1 I'd make errors that were less expensive (fingers crossed!)
#2 Absolutely subs on each of the left and right walls and/or front and rear walls
#3 Skip messing with a Lumagen and anamorphic lens and simply zoom
#4 Use an easier system for attaching GOM fabric and ridged fiberglass panels to the walls, what a nightmare it was.. I basically ended up "upholstering" my living room :-\
#5 I'd get a video calibrator out WAY sooner next time, what a change!
#6 In a dream world I'd have the equipment and projector in a booth at the rear, instead of the projector hung above the rear seats (noise) and the equipment rack in another room (50' HDMI runs suck)
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Well,
#1 I'd make errors that were less expensive (fingers crossed!)
#2 Absolutely subs on each of the left and right walls and/or front and rear walls
#3 Skip messing with a Lumagen and anamorphic lens and simply zoom
#4 Use an easier system for attaching GOM fabric and ridged fiberglass panels to the walls, what a nightmare it was.. I basically ended up "upholstering" my living room :-\
#5 I'd get a video calibrator out WAY sooner next time, what a change!
#6 In a dream world I'd have the equipment and projector in a booth at the rear, instead of the projector hung above the rear seats (noise) and the equipment rack in another room (50' HDMI runs suck)
#1..good luck on that one. LOL
#2.. I did my subs front and rear and now wish I would have went with the left and right walls instead. I think front and rear in my setup is only good if you have left and right already. I say this because in my room we have a null that is right in the front row. We moved the row as much as we can and it is better, but not quite as good as it should be.
#4..I hear ya, we have a fabric room too. LOL
#6... We have our equipment in the HT, and I wish the amps were in a different room due to fan noise.
We all have experiences that can help others. I regret not listening to others when they said "Do not install any equipment until the room is 100% completed" 3 years later the room is still not 100% due to us watching movies in it all the time. ;)
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How big is your room? Ours is 25' x 19' x 9', and I also would like more space... I am thinking about 5' larger all around would be great.
My family room setup is large. I use one end of a 25' x 32' x 17' room. This room is not light controlled at all, so projector is only used at night. Screen is 127" diag. Stewart FireHawk electric, that drops down in front of TV. My dedicated room is very small. It is 11.5" x 13.5' x 8'. This room has the 9' wide curved screen with EN4K fabric and powered masking.
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My family room setup is large. I use one end of a 25' x 32' x 17' room. This room is not light controlled at all, so projector is only used at night. Screen is 127" diag. Stewart FireHawk electric, that drops down in front of TV. My dedicated room is very small. It is 11.5" x 13.5' x 8'. This room has the 9' wide curved screen with EN4K fabric and powered masking.
My next house I hope will have a room that is as large as your Family Room is for a dedicated Home Theater. I thought we had plenty of space using a 2 car garage, but now I wish it was a 3 or 4 car garage that we converted.
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Bigger room. The sound and image in my room is very good, but Seating and throw distance are limited. Problem is, I would either need to build on or buy a new house.
I have my equipment outside my room and if I had it to do all over again, I would go this same route. In fact, I would probably put the projector outside the room also.
100% EXACTLY what I would also do differently
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The only way to save money is to have been there and done that hundreds of times. This is the biggest disadvantage the DIY'er has; experience. The only way to truly save money is to hire out on some elements where it makes sense to do so, and DIY others. For instance, I truly love me wife, but looked at her skeptically when she said she and her sister could finish dry wall. Dry wall finishing is an art form, not a weekend warrior project. Needless to say, it cost me more to finish it since it wasn't so good and I had to have a professional redo it. My best advice, hire a designer or someone that actually knows how to BUILD a theater room and guide you. THAT's where you're going to save money, and enormous amounts of time. Just from experience, I've designed over 200 rooms, and I still learn things from doing so. Mistakes will be made many times over on your first, or even second build.
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i would also spring for the soundproofing....but i didnt have the cash at the time
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i would also spring for the soundproofing....but i didnt have the cash at the time
If I was to do it again.. I would forgo the fluffy insulation in the walls, and use Roxul 60 or 80 in it's place in the walls, and ceiling too.
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If I was to do it again.. I would forgo the fluffy insulation in the walls, and use Roxul 60 or 80 in it's place in the walls, and ceiling too.
zero difference fyi.....just in your pocketbook
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zero difference fyi.....just in your pocketbook
No difference in insulating a room going with multiple layers of Roxul R80 vs fluffy R19?
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No difference in insulating a room going with multiple layers of Roxul R80 vs fluffy R19?
correct
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correct
You are talking about insulating vs absorbing, correct? Why would you use higher R rating insulation on newer homes if it was not more efficient at insulating, then?
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are we talking heating insulation or soundproofing insulation?
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are we talking heating insulation or soundproofing insulation?
I was under the assumption that insulation worked the same for both if it is installed properly with no air gaps between the studs. I know that our back wall to our theater is about R200 (including the bass traps along the entire rear wall), and when you are outside the room while watching a movie at reference levels it is hardly even heard...usually all you even hear is the bass which is also audible but not loud outside of the room. We did a test one day with some music playing at 120+db in the HT and went outside and put a SPL meter about a foot away and it was under 70db. My wife got in her new Genesis, and started it up from about 20' away, and the meter went up. So from this I would assume that the Roxul R-80 is better than fluffy R19 is.
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i can only speak for sound isolation...
roxul has NO advantage over pink fluffy...zero
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Whew! Lots to learn in this thread...
My room is in a constant state of evolution and experimentation, so all insights and experience is welcome. The room is 13' x 25' x 8.5' Currently there's a 10' x 5' spandex screen on one end and a hobby music conglomeration or DAW at the other end. Some audio eqpt crosses boundaries. All is in a state of flux. And, yes, remnants of a "lived in" space remain, too.
I'm particularly struck by a couple of comments on placing quad subs at wall mid-points and of two subs at side wall mid-points rather than front and rear. If I remember correctly, Fred Toole posted some graphs in his subwoofer white paper which indicated almost no difference between four subs on wall mid-points vs four-corner placement. (Could be very wrong about this!)
I'm trying to gear up to build a baffle wall. I see many AVS#1 threads showing a L/S/C/S/R configuration. Visually, it "looks" right, and it certainly hides the subs along with the LCR behind an AT screen, but does it "sound" right? At the moment my configuration is LCR spaced about 4' apart with the subs in the front corners.
Currently I have two subs - 12s, but will soon have four, although 2 12s and 2 18s which aren't the greatest mix. I may experiment with putting the 12s behind the MLP as nearfields. And wonder, in general, if a four-sub placement of two on the walls (or corners) and two as nearfields, as opposed to four in the corners or wall mid-points as above, might be a viable, even better solution, esp if the MLP occupant(s) were one or two as opposed to two rows full. Thoughts?
Please keep up the great comments!
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Whew! Lots to learn in this thread...
My room is in a constant state of evolution and experimentation, so all insights and experience is welcome. The room is 13' x 25' x 8.5' Currently there's a 10' x 5' spandex screen on one end and a hobby music conglomeration or DAW at the other end. Some audio eqpt crosses boundaries. All is in a state of flux. And, yes, remnants of a "lived in" space remain, too.
I'm particularly struck by a couple of comments on placing quad subs at wall mid-points and of two subs at side wall mid-points rather than front and rear. If I remember correctly, Fred Toole posted some graphs in his subwoofer white paper which indicated almost no difference between four subs on wall mid-points vs four-corner placement. (Could be very wrong about this!)
I'm trying to gear up to build a baffle wall. I see many AVS#1 threads showing a L/S/C/S/R configuration. Visually, it "looks" right, and it certainly hides the subs along with the LCR behind an AT screen, but does it "sound" right? At the moment my configuration is LCR spaced about 4' apart with the subs in the front corners.
Currently I have two subs - 12s, but will soon have four, although 2 12s and 2 18s which aren't the greatest mix. I may experiment with putting the 12s behind the MLP as nearfields. And wonder, in general, if a four-sub placement of two on the walls (or corners) and two as nearfields, as opposed to four in the corners or wall mid-points as above, might be a viable, even better solution, esp if the MLP occupant(s) were one or two as opposed to two rows full. Thoughts?
Please keep up the great comments!
Harman originally had some white papers that suggested mid wall for 2 or 4 subs. While i was trying to find it I came upon this good article on sub placement which references Harman. http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=48286
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zero difference fyi.....just in your pocketbook
I keep reading this but haven't seen any data on it either. Do you have any links or info? I know Roxul claims it is superior than pink fluffy at sound isolation.
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What would I change for theater 2.0? Pretty much everything.
The Room - My biggest mistake was blindly converting a tv room into the theater. The layout and dimensions are wrong; forcing a single row of seating against the back wall and limiting projector choice due to a short throw distance.
Sound Proof - Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky, but things that didn't bother me before, like the perpetual family racket, drive me insane. Also, having to keep the volume at a whisper when I watch movies early in the morning is annoying.
Move Equipment Outside of the Room - Again, maybe I'm just getting cranky, but the drone of the PS3, computer, Inuke and projector tends to mask subtleties in the sound track.
I suppose when I made the leap to a dedicated theater I didn't realize how much I would enjoy it. Now I understand, but I don't know that the advice of a professional at the time would have convinced me not to make so many compromises. One of those live and learn experiences. Now I'm just waiting for a couple kids to move out, and the torrent of tuition fees to subside before starting Theater 2.0. As a hobbyist, buggering it up the first time just gives you an excuse to do it over again, properly. After all, that's half the fun.
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What would I change for theater 2.0? Pretty much everything.
The Room - My biggest mistake was blindly converting a tv room into the theater. The layout and dimensions are wrong; forcing a single row of seating against the back wall and limiting projector choice due to a short throw distance.
Sound Proof - Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky, but things that didn't bother me before, like the perpetual family racket, drive me insane. Also, having to keep the volume at a whisper when I watch movies early in the morning is annoying.
Move Equipment Outside of the Room - Again, maybe I'm just getting cranky, but the drone of the PS3, computer, Inuke and projector tends to mask subtleties in the sound track.
I suppose when I made the leap to a dedicated theater I didn't realize how much I would enjoy it. Now I understand, but I don't know that the advice of a professional at the time would have convinced me not to make so many compromises. One of those live and learn experiences. Now I'm just waiting for a couple kids to move out, and the torrent of tuition fees to subside before starting Theater 2.0. As a hobbyist, buggering it up the first time just gives you an excuse to do it over again, properly. After all, that's half the fun.
That is the best thing I did in my theater. It's the third one I've built, so I already had tried various methods of eliminating projector noise !
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It looks like I will be able to implement my changes in our new HT soon.
A few additional changes will also be made.
1: The room will be bigger...a little wider and around 10' longer to allow diffusion, 2 rows of 3, and the ceiling will be higher.
2: No AC, since the room will be constructed of 1' thick solid clay walls, with a brick ceiling, and the electronics will be in a different room too.
3: We are also making this a healthy home so we will have the equipment in a 6' high glass room that has a wooden divider to hide the equipment, and that is open to the high ceilings. The glass room will have plants in it to release negative ions to counter the positive ions of the electricity fields. In addition we will have some skylights to provide light for plants in the HT...these will be to provide a cleaner air in the room.
4: By going to a larger room, I hope to be able to get an even better Soundstage by spacing the speakers out into the room. I am doing this strictly on theory, as my new speakers have never been heard by me or anyone else for that matter, and we are just hoping they sound as good as others have said this style of speaker sounds.
5: This room will not have a hallway with a door on each end... unless I decide to split the atrium in half, and have a short hallway between the atrium, with the first door being a glass door. It will negate the sealed hallway, but might make for a real nice entry to the HT.
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It looks like I will be able to implement my changes in our new HT soon.
A few additional changes will also be made.
1: The room will be bigger...a little wider and around 10' longer to allow diffusion, 2 rows of 3, and the ceiling will be higher.
2: No AC, since the room will be constructed of 1' thick solid clay walls, with a brick ceiling, and the electronics will be in a different room too.
3: We are also making this a healthy home so we will have the equipment in a 6' high glass room that has a wooden divider to hide the equipment, and that is open to the high ceilings. The glass room will have plants in it to release negative ions to counter the positive ions of the electricity fields. In addition we will have some skylights to provide light for plants in the HT...these will be to provide a cleaner air in the room.
4: By going to a larger room, I hope to be able to get an even better Soundstage by spacing the speakers out into the room. I am doing this strictly on theory, as my new speakers have never been heard by me or anyone else for that matter, and we are just hoping they sound as good as others have said this style of speaker sounds.
5: This room will not have a hallway with a door on each end... unless I decide to split the atrium in half, and have a short hallway between the atrium, with the first door being a glass door. It will negate the sealed hallway, but might make for a real nice entry to the HT.
sounds....interesting...
seems like you arent going for optimum performance with this one...but more of what you are looking for "healthy"
good luck...looking forward to see pics of this thing
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How is it not for optimum performance? The room will be made with the golden rule dimentions. It is being adequate larger to enable moving the speaker out into the room. The walls and ceiling are being made with thick clay walls which should also be better than sheet rock for keeping the sound inside the HT. All the electronics will be outside of the theater which means no fan noise inside the HT except for the projector. We will be tuning the room with first reflection panels else, and bass traps too. The atrium for a healthy home have no negatives on the performance of the HT...only on the negatives of the air in the house, and reducing the positive IONs.
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I keep reading this but haven't seen any data on it either. Do you have any links or info? I know Roxul claims it is superior than pink fluffy at sound isolation.
One advantage over pink fluffy is r60 with 2" vs pink fluffy. If you stuff pink fluffy in a normal wall you will get maybe r30, and in the same area you could have over r200.
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How is it not for optimum performance? The room will be made with the golden rule dimentions. It is being adequate larger to enable moving the speaker out into the room. The walls and ceiling are being made with thick clay walls which should also be better than sheet rock for keeping the sound inside the HT. All the electronics will be outside of the theater which means no fan noise inside the HT except for the projector. We will be tuning the room with first reflection panels else, and bass traps too. The atrium for a healthy home have no negatives on the performance of the HT...only on the negatives of the air in the house, and reducing the positive IONs.
You should move the projector out of the room too, if possible. Or build a closet like I did.
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You should move the projector out of the room too, if possible. Or build a closet like I did.
I had thought about that, but then I am locked in to over a 30' throw, and will lose my sealed room performance...with the sound leaking throughout the house.I could get a hush box though.
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One advantage over pink fluffy is r60 with 2" vs pink fluffy. If you stuff pink fluffy in a normal wall you will get maybe r30, and in the same area you could have over r200.
To get r200 you would need about 4 feet of Roxul Comfortbatt. It has about 4.25 r's per inch of thickness.
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To get r200 you would need about 4 feet of Roxul Comfortbatt. It has about 4.25 r's per inch of thickness.
Wouldn't 3 layers of Roxul r80 do It? We have 9" of r80 for our back wall bass trap.
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Wouldn't 3 layers of Roxul r80 do It? We have 9" of r80 for our back wall bass trap.
I don't see a product named r80, but I'm assuming you're refering to Roxul Rockboard 80 which has an r-value of 4 per inch.
http://www.roxul.com/products/rockboard/
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I don't see a product named r80, but I'm assuming you're refering to Roxul Rockboard 80 which has an r-value of 4 per inch.
http://www.roxul.com/products/rockboard/
I believe when it arrives it say r80 on the plastic... I will have to look at one of the packages to double check. I do know we have a 2", & 3", and one is r80.
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I built the room (OK, had it built per my direction) using 6" walls filled with Roxul and floated the inner walls and ceiling on Kinetics IsoMax clips. The walls and ceiling are all double-layer drywall and the door is a heavy, large exterior door with full weather seals. The floor is concrete (basement). I sealed off the ducts to the house and added a minisplit HVAC unit so no sound transmission through the ducts. It works pretty well but of course there are things I would like to change:
1. I gave up about 1/3 of the floor area to give my son a room. Probably better for resale, and he liked it, but trashed my original nice primed dimensions so gave me some doubled-up room modes. Blah.
2. I suspended the ceiling from the joists above instead of building a subframe so it was floating on the walls. It still works pretty durn well, but heavy footfalls do transmit down, and sometimes heavy bass up. Much attenuated, but could be better.
3. I could not do anything about the large window wells so they provide a couple of "interesting" response ripples. I put absorbers in front of the front window; the back don't impact the sound much. I would rather have had none though it is nice to look out sometimes.
4. I would have added more power outlets and breakers. I ran three 20 A outlets along the front wall, plus some standard 15 A outlets (some switched) on the side walls and rear. When I added rear subs I want XLR to avoid hum but wish I had put another 20 A run back there. I also wish I had added some ceiling outlets for additional lights and a projector.
5. I really, really wish I had run Ethernet into the room. We don't have it elsewhere, depending upon wireless, but the media room is in the basement and the router is two floor up and across the house. The major ducts run across the upper edge of the room right between the router and my media server so the signal is lousy. And thanks to my dedicated outlets and basement sub-service a power line adapter didn't help. A wireless range extender helped a little but I don't have a good place for it in the kitchen where it needs to be.
On the plus side, I can watch movies or play music (or my trumpet) full-blast and nobody complains, not even my son in the room next door.
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I wish my theater was a bit deeper ( maybe by 10' or so ). Then I'd have more throw distance for an even wider scope screen. Although I'm not sure my wife would like that !
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I'm moving to a new home and part of the basement is unfinished. I plan on putting a home theater in the unfinished part of the basement. Approximate dimension: depth can be up to 21' to 22', but width can only be up to 11'.
One challenge is that the room right next to the home theater is HVAC equipment, which can be loud. So, I'll need some sort of soundproofing.
Another challenge is that the room is not that wide. Maybe 11'. So, I'd be hard pressed to comfortably fit 4 home theater chairs in a row. I'll probably go with 2 tiers, with 2 or 3 chairs for each tier. Ceiling height is only about 8' though.
Also, given the width, I'm thinking of getting an acoustically transparent screen so I can put the L/R speakers behind the screen instead of to the left/right of the screen. This will allow me to have a bigger screen. However, this adds additional expense so I can have a smallish room behind the screen to hold the speakers. Anyone have suggestions on how to do a build with an acoustically transparent screen (I imagine that occasionally, I'll need easy access behind the screen to adjust speakers).
I'm thinking of putting the equipment rack in the back of the room. Less distraction, and shorter cable to the projector. I'm thinking of putting it outside the room, since I don't use physical media anyway (I put all my movies on disc).
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You put the speakers in the room. Then build a minimalist screen wall
So no separate room for you speakers. See pics
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You put the speakers in the room. Then build a minimalist screen wall
So no separate room for you speakers. See pics
Thanks. What material is the black frame around the screen made of?
Wondering what to do in case I needed to access the speakers sometime in the future after the screen was up.
I've never used an AT screen before. Movement of air from the speakers don't cause the screen to move, I assume? I suppose the movement of air comes mainly from subwoofers in heavy bass scenes, so as long as they're below the AT screen, then moving air wouldn't be an issue.
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Thanks. What material is the black frame around the screen made of?
Wondering what to do in case I needed to access the speakers sometime in the future after the screen was up.
I've never used an AT screen before. Movement of air from the speakers don't cause the screen to move, I assume? I suppose the movement of air comes mainly from subwoofers in heavy bass scenes, so as long as they're below the AT screen, then moving air wouldn't be an issue.
correct moving air isnt an issue but COULD be if you dont leave a little breathing room from the speakers I would assume.
the frames are made of 1x2 common board (some use FJP but is more expensive) wrapped in black velvet. all panels are friction fit so easily removable to access all behind the screen.
also note i stuffed all the cavity between the speakers with insulation to help with reflections and build a sort of baffle wall