AVS Discussions
Projection Screens => Do-it Yourself Screens => Topic started by: NBPk402 on November 04, 2016, 08:53:36 PM
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I am using a 195" 2.35 diagonal SeymourAV AT screen, and loving it. It was a very reasonable price, and I paid a little extra to have all the grommets installed. Their delivery was pretty fast too. I then made up an extruded Aluminum frame, and we literally had it all together in about an hour! Not bad IMO for building a frame from scratch and installing it.
What are you using?
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Did you, or are you going to have any black velvet trim?
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Did you, or are you going to have any black velvet trim?
We have black velvet trim around the whole screen...about 3-4" wide. We also have black velvet on the ceiling for a couple of feet from the screen, and black velvet on the stage too. This was done after the install and was not included in the one hour time frame.
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I use Black Millskin under White millskin and its outstanding...200$ total for a 130" 2.35 screen
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I use Black Millskin under White millskin and its outstanding...200$ total for a 130" 2.35 screen
We used black Commando Cloth on all the walls, and ceiling area behind the screen...you can def tell the difference when you are behind the screen.
I think that D.I.Y. screens are an excellent value, and well worth trying out. The cash saved allows you to put the money toward other areas of the system that are lacking, or just allow you to get into projection (if you are stretching your budget to the max already).
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I used to have an 115" wide DIY Seymour AV Center Stage AT screen and loved it. I gave it to a fellow home theater friend to start his new home theater project after I purchased an 138" Elite AT screen from Amazon around Black Friday 2014 for less than my DIY screen. The stock screen material was not very good to my eyes and I talked with Elite and they sent me their upgraded "4K" material for free...great service. I still think the Seymour AT screen material is a bit "better"...
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I never really liked Seymour's AT screens till he got the Enlightor. To me, it redefined the category and finally made AT screens an acceptable alternative to a solid screen.
Now, I see people are using millskin and spandex for DIY AT screens. I would probably spend the extra cash on the V6 material myself, but to each their own.
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I never really liked Seymour's AT screens till he got the Enlightor. To me, it redefined the category and finally made AT screens an acceptable alternative to a solid screen.
Now, I see people are using millskin and spandex for DIY AT screens. I would probably spend the extra cash on the V6 material myself, but to each their own.
I remember when Chris introduced the EN4K screens at CEDIA. I was using XD at the time. I walked up and asked Chris when he started selling solid screens. He said it is a new screen he was now selling and that it was AT. I was blown away and soon after went with EN4K. Now that I have seen V6, I want to change to it. Just have to find the time/make myself do it. My screen will be a lot of work, since I have to pull a masking system. I agree with Ericglo, V6 is a really nice fabric.
Welcome to the forum Eric. :)
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how much would a 130" 2.35 screen of V6 be?
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how much would a 130" 2.35 screen of V6 be?
Email us - that's the easiest way to answer that question.
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I came into the DIY screen section not looking forward to it at all. Figured I would mess up something on an expensive screen. But it actually was one of the easier things to make.
141in Wood Poplar frame with kreg pocket holes to pull it all together. v6 screen.
Really happy with the results.
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I came into the DIY screen section not looking forward to it at all. Figured I would mess up something on an expensive screen. But it actually was one of the easier things to make.
141in Wood Poplar frame with kreg pocket holes to pull it all together. v6 screen.
Really happy with the results.
Is this Derrick?
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Like bmoney I'm using a white-over-black milliskin spandex screen and lighting it up with a JVC RS400. It's a 120" x 60" "experiment" (could project 60" height for 16:9 and 120" width for 2.4 to see what I wanted to end up with). I'm generally blown away with this combo and yet I feel I might be missing a bit of "pop."
Has anyone ever used a W/B spandex screen and any other screen, AT or not, with the same projector? How do they compare?
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Question on DIY frames: I've seen examples of different designs that have center supports for large screens. Do you have to do anything special to keep the supports from being visible through the AT material?
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Like bmoney I'm using a white-over-black milliskin spandex screen and lighting it up with a JVC RS400. It's a 120" x 60" "experiment" (could project 60" height for 16:9 and 120" width for 2.4 to see what I wanted to end up with). I'm generally blown away with this combo and yet I feel I might be missing a bit of "pop."
Has anyone ever used a W/B spandex screen and any other screen, AT or not, with the same projector? How do they compare?
The spandex screen is not as sharp of an image and you lose brightness over many of the manufactured AT weaves. With spandex, the adjacent fibers can glow a little bit, so this causes a slight loss in sharpness. Not saying it is a bad screen, just one of the trade offs.
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Question on DIY frames: I've seen examples of different designs that have center supports for large screens. Do you have to do anything special to keep the supports from being visible through the AT material?
Paint them flat black or cover with a black material or black velvet.
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The spandex screen is not as sharp of an image and you lose brightness over many of the manufactured AT weaves. With spandex, the adjacent fibers can glow a little bit, so this causes a slight loss in sharpness. Not saying it is a bad screen, just one of the trade offs.
it has been measured that white/black is .8 gain...so the same as V6...also when doing side by side comparison not being as sharp is a myth (although I have not personally done the comparison...so take it with a grain of salt)
If the picture can get sharper Id be dumbfounded!! ;)
just sayin'
pics of mine with tomorrowland:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bcfineberg/7499B41F-CC97-4565-A46A-48D82101191F_zpsenwi0bv1.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/bcfineberg/media/7499B41F-CC97-4565-A46A-48D82101191F_zpsenwi0bv1.jpg.html)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bcfineberg/98550008-2A56-4649-B135-83D9BBB290B7_zps8sua5byy.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/bcfineberg/media/98550008-2A56-4649-B135-83D9BBB290B7_zps8sua5byy.jpg.html)
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Paint them flat black or cover with a black material or black velvet.
or if you use black backing nothing will show from behind the screen :)
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Question on DIY frames: I've seen examples of different designs that have center supports for large screens. Do you have to do anything special to keep the supports from being visible through the AT material?
We did no center support on our T slot aluminum frame. We do have our speakers almost touching the rear of the screen, and they are not seen through the AT screen though.
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We used black Commando Cloth on all the walls, and ceiling area behind the screen...you can def tell the difference when you are behind the screen.
I think that D.I.Y. screens are an excellent value, and well worth trying out. The cash saved allows you to put the money toward other areas of the system that are lacking, or just allow you to get into projection (if you are stretching your budget to the max already).
Can you post shots of your room with the Commando cloth? How's the absorption compared to triple black velvet? Thanks
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or if you use black backing nothing will show from behind the screen :)
What type of material is used for the black backing, and what effect does it have on the acoustics? Wouldn't it be preferable to have no center supports and use blackout cloth on the walls behind the screen? Of course, that is assuming the speakers behind the screen are all black or have black grills.
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Can you post shots of your room with the Commando cloth? How's the absorption compared to triple black velvet? Thanks
I wish I could, but the commando cloth is behind our AT screen and it is pretty hard to get back there, and the camera will not be a good example. Another velvet that we used on our ceiling is the black stick-on sheets they use for inside of telescopes...literally a black hole for light absorption.
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it has been measured that white/black is .8 gain...so the same as V6...also when doing side by side comparison not being as sharp is a myth (although I have not personally done the comparison...so take it with a grain of salt)
If the picture can get sharper Id be dumbfounded!! ;)
just sayin'
pics of mine with tomorrowland:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bcfineberg/7499B41F-CC97-4565-A46A-48D82101191F_zpsenwi0bv1.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/bcfineberg/media/7499B41F-CC97-4565-A46A-48D82101191F_zpsenwi0bv1.jpg.html)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bcfineberg/98550008-2A56-4649-B135-83D9BBB290B7_zps8sua5byy.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/bcfineberg/media/98550008-2A56-4649-B135-83D9BBB290B7_zps8sua5byy.jpg.html)
I have seen the two compared, side by side. Get a sample of V6 and EN4K and put up a test pattern. Compare them to spandex. You will be able to see a difference. As everything in HT, the difference will not be great, but it is there. :)
Chris Seymour also did a comparison and he provided up close pictures, showing how the adjacent fibers in spandex, light up just a little bit and that is why the other fabrics are a little sharper. Bang for the buck, spandex is a good DIY screen. I have not measured spandex myself, but have seen numbers listed lower than .8, but of course, that all depends on what is used for the back layer.
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What type of material is used for the black backing, and what effect does it have on the acoustics? Wouldn't it be preferable to have no center supports and use blackout cloth on the walls behind the screen? Of course, that is assuming the speakers behind the screen are all black or have black grills.
You use two supports at 3rd points, rather than one center support. That way, the supports are not in the sound radiation pattern of the speakers. Also, make the supports as narrow as you can. :)
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You use two supports at 3rd points, rather than one center support. That way, the supports are not in the sound radiation pattern of the speakers. Also, make the supports as narrow as you can. :)
Also image wise, it is best if there is no gap between the surface layer and the black backing. That is why the black backing is bonded to the surface layer with V6. It would be much easier and cheaper to just have it a loose layer, but it would not be quite as good.
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Also image wise, it is best if there is no gap between the surface layer and the black backing. That is why the black backing is bonded to the surface layer with V6. It would be much easier and cheaper to just have it a loose layer, but it would not be quite as good.
How much impact does the black backing have on the acoustics?
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the black backing I use is obviously more spandex...and doesnt effect it one bit...not sure about the other AT material
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I put black commando cloth on my wall behind the screen, and it worked great. I would be interested to hear if black AT material would cause a loss of audio quality also...
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How much impact does the black backing have on the acoustics?
Average loss less than 1.5 db. That is very good for an AT screen.
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I did a little experimenting with samples I got from Falcon (Horizon) and Severtson (SAT-4K). I stretched and stapled the material over small wood frames and held them up in front of my current Da-lite white 1.0 gain non-AT screen. With nothing behind the sample fabrics, the loss of contrast was very visible. Placing black fabric directly behind the screen materials brought the contrast back to a level comparable with my existing screen. However, moving the black fabric back away even an inch or so from the AT fabrics had a negative impact on the contrast. This now has me appreciating the importance of black backing for AT screen fabrics.
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I did a little experimenting with samples I got from Falcon (Horizon) and Severtson (SAT-4K). I stretched and stapled the material over small wood frames and held them up in front of my current Da-lite white 1.0 gain non-AT screen. With nothing behind the sample fabrics, the loss of contrast was very visible. Placing black fabric directly behind the screen materials brought the contrast back to a level comparable with my existing screen. However, moving the black fabric back away even an inch or so from the AT fabrics had a negative impact on the contrast. This now has me appreciating the importance of black backing for AT screen fabrics.
I will have to try some black material directly behind my screen to see if it makes a difference in my setup.
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I will have to try some black material directly behind my screen to see if it makes a difference in my setup.
what sceen are you running again?
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what sceen are you running again?
SeymourAV Centerstage XD 15' wide.
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SeymourAV Centerstage XD 15' wide.
and it didnt come with a black backing layer?
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and it didnt come with a black backing layer?
No, I did the DIY route, and it was an option. It is a couple of dollars less per linear foot than the XD fabric was.
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No, I did the DIY route, and it was an option. It is a couple of dollars less per linear foot than the XD fabric was.
gotcha!...I want to try a name brand screen material vs the spandex (i ordered a samlpe here of v^) but not sure I can justify the costs...we shall see
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Yeah so it almost doubles the price of the screen material to get the black backing material. If I was to order it now... I think I might even have to get more of the t-nuts and screws as I am not sure the grommets would line up either.
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Yeah so it almost doubles the price of the screen material to get the black backing material. If I was to order it now... I think I might even have to get more of the t-nuts and screws as I am not sure the grommets would line up either.
so could you use your own black backing? such as spandex?
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so could you use your own black backing? such as spandex?
I most likely could except that my setup uses grommets, and I am not sure how Spandex would fare with grommets.
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Yeah so it almost doubles the price of the screen material to get the black backing material. If I was to order it now... I think I might even have to get more of the t-nuts and screws as I am not sure the grommets would line up either.
There are a couple ways to go, since the point to black backing is to simply block light and stay out of the way acoustically. There are several materials that would work well. If you can simply tack up a material behind your grommeted screen, then speaker grill or light mesh would be fine, depending on how much contrast you're needing to block behind the screen. You don't even need to tension the material unless (like spandex) it needs tension to properly open up acoustically. Otherwise, waves in the black backing don't matter.
If you want the material to mount with your grommeted screen, then yeah - we need to use the pvc mesh and grommet a screen much like we do for the visual layer. It's costly, but a nice install in the end.
We'll do about any variation in how much "Y" you want in the DIY, so just let us know how to help.
Cheers,
Chris
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There are a couple ways to go, since the point to black backing is to simply block light and stay out of the way acoustically. There are several materials that would work well. If you can simply tack up a material behind your grommeted screen, then speaker grill or light mesh would be fine, depending on how much contrast you're needing to block behind the screen. You don't even need to tension the material unless (like spandex) it needs tension to properly open up acoustically. Otherwise, waves in the black backing don't matter.
If you want the material to mount with your grommeted screen, then yeah - we need to use the pvc mesh and grommet a screen much like we do for the visual layer. It's costly, but a nice install in the end.
We'll do about any variation in how much "Y" you want in the DIY, so just let us know how to help.
Cheers,
Chris
I am using T-channel... I believe it has a channel on the other side so I guess I could use speaker material if I can find a piece big enough to use on a 15' wide 2.4 screen. Then I assume I could use a piece of wood or something to push in the slot, correct?
I would see if you can't use rubber spline, rather than a wood dowel.
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Thanks Mike for the suggestion. :)
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SO got my sample of V6 AT (thanks Mike!) and I taped her up on my screen.
I have to say...spandex is pretty damn amazing...cause I could tell 99% no diffrence....sharpness was indistiguishable...and brightness was the slightest of slight brighter in the V6 sample..
I must say the V6 material is VERY nice..with the attached black backing...and survived the "blow test" easily...but make no mistake...at distances of a few inches to normal seating positions Millskin spandex was virtually indistinguishable...and I used text, menus and in action movie (petes dragon)
some cell phone pics (phone pics excentuate the diffrence in brightness):
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bcfineberg/A92C7DE1-3251-4731-98DC-3EA4E40AA8E1_zpsar7kdwik.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/bcfineberg/media/A92C7DE1-3251-4731-98DC-3EA4E40AA8E1_zpsar7kdwik.jpg.html)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bcfineberg/72CA5651-00AE-4702-B73E-7A48961374E6_zpstbgkcfd6.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/bcfineberg/media/72CA5651-00AE-4702-B73E-7A48961374E6_zpstbgkcfd6.jpg.html)
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And with that said. If I were to do it all over again. V6 would be my first choice
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I am using a 195" 2.35 diagonal SeymourAV AT screen, and loving it.
I then made up an extruded Aluminum frame, and we literally had it all together in about an hour! Not bad IMO for building a frame from scratch and installing it.
ellisr - do you have any pics of your frame construction? I'm shooting for a 160" - 175" 2:35 screen. I wish I had room for a 195"...
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ellisr - do you have any pics of your frame construction? I'm shooting for a 160" - 175" 2:35 screen. I wish I had room for a 195"...
Sorry, but I have no pics of the frame being constructed... I might have a picture that shows the screen partially covering the screen though.
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I am using a 195" 2.35 diagonal SeymourAV AT screen, and loving it. It was a very reasonable price, and I paid a little extra to have all the grommets installed. Their delivery was pretty fast too. I then made up an extruded Aluminum frame, and we literally had it all together in about an hour! Not bad IMO for building a frame from scratch and installing it.
What are you using?
Would you share maybe some photos or description of the frame? Thinking of doing the same here and getting rid of my Elite motorized.