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Movie and TV Discussion => Movie reviews => Topic started by: Barry on July 24, 2025, 07:33:41 PM

Title: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Barry on July 24, 2025, 07:33:41 PM

Preface to Movie Review

    In 1935, DC published the first comic book, “New Fun Comics.” In 1938 “Action Comics” 31 introduced Superman and the super-heroes took over.  Martin Goodman, in 1939 published “Marvel Comics” which also featured super-heroes.  But they died out by 1950, leaving just a few.

    In 1961, Marvel was selling just over a million comics a month, far behind DC.  When Goodman found out that super-heroes, in particular the Justice League, were making a comeback he had his team, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby create the “Fantastic Four.”  By 1970 Marvel was outselling DC, selling 6 million comics a month. So the Fantastic Four is always considered Marvel’s “First Family.”

    What was the difference? Simply, as the famous editor and publisher of DC told me over dinner one night, “Comics are for twelve year olds.” Well, DC’s were, Marvel aimed at older readers teenagers and young adults.

    Also, DC divided it’s comics into “teams” each with their own editor, writers and artists. They not only didn’t share their characters; they didn’t share their talent.  So each character seemed to exist in their own separate universe.

      Marvel just had one team, led by Stan Lee, and they all wrote and drew everything, creating a united universe that DC is now trying to image in their movies.

While I written for other publishers, I wrote a 1,400 page on the Marvel Age of Comics explaining all this. See: https://forbushman.blogspot.com/2020/07/ (https://forbushman.blogspot.com/2020/07/)

    While the book sells of $30, BUT!! If you email (forbushman@Verizon.net) or aprivate message, I will send you a link to the 1,400 PDF FOR FREE!

      Honest!

                                            Fantastic Four, First Steps

      I saw Fantastic Four today, in 3D, at my local AMC Dolby Digital theatre.  We chose 3D because we got better seats at an earlier showing than the evening regular one.

      It is certainly a good movie. Surprisingly, it does not take place in the Marvel Universe and they tell you that at the very beginning.  While there are a lot of “easter eggs” for Fantastic Four fans there are no references to the other Marvel movies. And no mention of the last three Fantastic Four duds.

Here, they combine several elements that we have seen before and just do it better. First we do get a quick rundown of their origin. Here, the Fantastic Four have been together for four years. Sue and Reed are already married and are having a baby. Johnny and Ben are living with them in the Baxter Building. 

      The Thing’s special effects are indeed special, he looks and moves great.

     Galactus is coming to devour the Earth and he has sent the Silver Surfer as his scout. In the comic, Fantastic Four #48-50, Jack Kirby gave him form, Stan Lee gave him substance, but no one gave him pants!!  He was the first naked super-hero.  Originally, the Surfer was AI and therefore sexless.  The character became so popular that Stan made him into a hero and gave him an origin story.  Here, the origin story is just about the same, but they use a female instead of a male. (They actually use the name of the original Surfer’s girlfriend.)

    The movie doesn’t look like any other Marvel movie we have seen. It takes place in the 1960s and it looks like it was filmed in the 1960s. It never slows down and takes itself very seriously. And the effects are very good, I like Galactus on Earth.

     The one serious complaint that I have is that a soon to give birth Sue goes on  rocket  trip to out space.  She needed a pregnant pause. But I just enjoyed this.

      There are two inserts in the end credits, one at the beginning and one of the end.

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: David Vaughn on July 24, 2025, 08:04:34 PM

Barry will really send you the PDF of his book...I got one years ago and it's very interesting. 

As for this movie, I'll await it on home video. I just don't enjoy going to the movies like I used to :(

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: SRW1000 on July 24, 2025, 08:26:51 PM

Thanks for the write up, Barry, and for the copy of the book!

There is a cameo in the movie with the four starts of the unreleased Roger Corman version in one of the crowd scenes.  I was on the fence about whether or not to watch it at all, but you've convinced me to check it out once it hits disc.

(I really hate that they included H.E.R.B.I.E., as it's contrary to the 60's era vibe, and he was only created due to the 70's TV series as a replacement for the Human Torch.)

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Barry on July 24, 2025, 09:42:58 PM

Quote from: David Vaughn on July 24, 2025, 08:04:34 PM

Barry will really send you the PDF of his book...I got one years ago and it's very interesting.

As for this movie, I'll await it on home video. I just don't enjoy going to the movies like I used to :(

David, way back when people could just get VHS tapes. I would always tell them. It’s best in the movie theater. But as you know with our huge screens at home, and really good surround sound. It is a pleasure to watch a movie in our living rooms. Heck, it’s a pleasure to watch a baseball game in my living room. I do enjoy the movie going experience, but I hate their popcorn. I also like the pause button I have at home when the bathroom calls. I really do think that this is a good stay at home and watch movie. And you don’t get the half hour of commercials and coming attractions

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: David Vaughn on July 24, 2025, 10:24:33 PM

Quote from: Barry on July 24, 2025, 09:42:58 PM

David, way back when people could just get VHS tapes. I would always tell them. It’s best in the movie theater. But as you know with our huge screens at home, and really good surround sound. It is a pleasure to watch a movie in our living rooms. Heck, it’s a pleasure to watch a baseball game in my living room. I do enjoy the movie going experience, but I hate their popcorn. I also like the pause button I have at home when the bathroom calls. I really do think that this is a good stay at home and watch movie. And you don’t get the half hour of commercials and coming attractions

Totally agree on all points. Heck, I watch Jeopardy on my big screen every night. I don't need my glasses to read the questions that way :D

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Barry on July 24, 2025, 11:10:21 PM

Quote from: David Vaughn on July 24, 2025, 10:24:33 PM

Totally agree on all points. Heck, I watch Jeopardy on my big screen every night. I don't need my glasses to read the questions that way :D

Me too!

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Paul Heroy on July 25, 2025, 01:37:26 AM

Stuff you don't have to put up at home... like when I saw F1 in the theater and the woman sitting right next to me pulled out her phone, turned up bright, and texted constantly throughout the movie. Easily 10 or more times. I should have said something but went the passive aggressive route and held my hand up in an obvious fashion to block it. I guess she thought that was fine. >:(

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: David Vaughn on July 25, 2025, 02:07:01 AM

Quote from: Paul Heroy on July 25, 2025, 01:37:26 AM

Stuff you don't have to put up at home... like when I saw F1 in the theater and the woman sitting right next to me pulled out her phone, turned up bright, and texted constantly throughout the movie. Easily 10 or more times. I should have said something but went the passive aggressive route and held my hand up in an obvious fashion to block it. I guess she thought that was fine. >:(

I'm at the age where I have no filter (and my wife is even worse!). I would have said something and it wouldn't have been very nice!

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Paul Heroy on July 26, 2025, 06:50:41 PM

Just saw FF. 


**** SPOILER ALERT ****




Barry I'm curious now that the one complaint you said you heard was about the spaceship birth... because while I agree, I had one far bigger complaint that kind of ruined the movie for me.

But first, let me say that for the most part I found FF well done. The lack of MCU references makes sense as they're on a different Earth that has no meta-humans, so the FF are a unique group based on a very singular event. The acting, and some of the story elements were well done. 

The thing that didn't work AT ALL for me, was the very premise of the story - that these "heroes" wouldn't make a sacrifice of a kid's future (not life, just his potential future) for the entire world. Of course, it gets written so that against the most ridiculous of odds, that gamble works. But kids die and have horrible stuff happen all the time that isn't their choice, and it's for absolutely nothing, no good at all. So to me this was a farcical ethical dilemma that had such an enormous cost for a price that wasn't really clearly constructed as "too much". Apparently I'm on my own though, but it really colored my perception of the FF characters the rest of the way. And the fact that the world at large just kind of asks a couple of questions and then shrugs and accepts it, didn't feel right either. 

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Barry on July 27, 2025, 01:11:19 PM

The thing that didn't work AT ALL for me, was the very premise of the story - that these "heroes" wouldn't make a sacrifice of a kid's future (not life, just his potential future) for the entire world. Of course, it gets written so that against the most ridiculous of odds, that gamble works. But kids die and have horrible stuff happen all the time that isn't their choice, and it's for absolutely nothing, no good at all. So to me this was a farcical ethical dilemma that had such an enormous cost for a price that wasn't really clearly constructed as "too much". Apparently I'm on my own though, but it really colored my perception of the FF characters the rest of the way. And the fact that the world at large just kind of asks a couple of questions and then shrugs and accepts it, didn't feel right either.

“Mr. Spock, your logic, as always, is inescapable”

As with movies of this kind, except for Venom, I have always learned to leave my my brains in the lobby. (Venon eats brains, not Raisinets.)

 

“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.  Or the one.”

 

But there are three good reasons for the Fantastic Four decision. But first, we know that the writers and producers want to make the fight personal. But, in addition to that:

1.  Galactus shows no moral integrity. He is about to “eat” 8 billion people and destroy a planet, which he has done numerous times.  He sees us as cattle.  And you believe him?   Do you make promises to your dinner? Do you believe that he will just fly away and leave the Earth untouched? They don't.  Obviously, you haven’t read the comics. He wants the kid and will certainly lie to get him. The Fantastic Four doesn’t believe him. Neither do I.

2.  And what does he want the kid for?  To become the NEXT Galactus and eat and destroy  more people and planets. That would just be adding to the continuing the destruction of civilations throughout the galaxy.

3.  In this Marvel Universe, the Fantastic Four know that other planets contain life. To let Galactus go means the death of billions of people. And they, as super-heroes have the opportunity to stop him.

Just one more thing, since this a spoiler.  In the new Superman movie movie, Luthor distroys a lot of Metropolis and here Galactius distroys a lot of New York.  Everyone is happy at the end although thousands of lives must have been lost.  I live in New York and I know you cannot evacuate people quickly when buildings are knocked down.

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: SRW1000 on July 27, 2025, 01:59:13 PM

Quote from: Barry on July 27, 2025, 01:11:19 PM

The thing that didn't work AT ALL for me, was the very premise of the story - that these "heroes" wouldn't make a sacrifice of a kid's future (not life, just his potential future) for the entire world. Of course, it gets written so that against the most ridiculous of odds, that gamble works. But kids die and have horrible stuff happen all the time that isn't their choice, and it's for absolutely nothing, no good at all. So to me this was a farcical ethical dilemma that had such an enormous cost for a price that wasn't really clearly constructed as "too much". Apparently I'm on my own though, but it really colored my perception of the FF characters the rest of the way. And the fact that the world at large just kind of asks a couple of questions and then shrugs and accepts it, didn't feel right either.

“Mr. Spock, your logic, as always, is inescapable”

As with movies of this kind, except for Venom, I have always learned to leave my my brains in the lobby. (Venon eats brains, not Raisinets.)

“The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.  Or the one.”

But there are three good reasons for the Fantastic Four decision. But first, we know that the writers and producers want to make the fight personal. But, in addition to that:

1.  Galactus shows no moral integrity. He is about to “eat” 8 billion people and destroy a planet, which he has done numerous times.  He sees us as cattle.  And you believe him?  Do you make promises to your dinner? Do you believe that he will just fly away and leave the Earth untouched? They don't.  Obviously, you haven’t read the comics. He wants the kid and will certainly lie to get him. The Fantastic Four doesn’t believe him. Neither do I.

2.  And what does he want the kid for?  To become the NEXT Galactus and eat and destroy  more people and planets. That would just be adding to the continuing the destruction of civilations throughout the galaxy.

3.  In this Marvel Universe, the Fantastic Four know that other planets contain life. To let Galactus go means the death of billions of people. And they, as super-heroes have the opportunity to stop him.

Just one more thing, since this a spoiler.  In the new Superman movie movie, Luthor distroys a lot of Metropolis and here Galactius distroys a lot of New York.  Everyone is happy at the end although thousands of lives must have been lost.  I live in New York and I know you cannot evacuate people quickly when buildings are knocked down.

Barry,

Do you think the movie would have been received differently by the general audience had they stuck closer to the events in FF 48-50 instead of only using some of the basic elements of the story?

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Paul Heroy on July 27, 2025, 03:00:31 PM

Thanks Barry. Excellent points and as you point out I’m definitely not familiar with the comics. I do wish they had framed the decision better with some of that. Of course, they didn’t destroy Galactus, only moved him elsewhere so your 3rd point and maybe 2nd too, might not be the case. He’s just further away from Earth but still needs to feed. 

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Barry on July 27, 2025, 03:32:58 PM

Quote from: Paul Heroy on July 27, 2025, 03:00:31 PM

Thanks Barry. Excellent points and as you point out I’m definitely not familiar with the comics. I do wish they had framed the decision better with some of that. Of course, they didn’t destroy Galactus, only moved him elsewhere so your 3rd point and maybe 2nd too, might not be the case. He’s just further away from Earth but still needs to feed.

Paul,

I write this with a bit of a smile on my face because it’s funny. In the Comics Galactus promises not to return to earth but he returned to the Comics 31 times in the next 10 years. a good villain is a terrible thing to waste.

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Barry on July 27, 2025, 03:44:14 PM

Quote from: SRW1000 on July 27, 2025, 01:59:13 PM

Barry,

Do you think the movie would have been received differently by the general audience had they stuck closer to the events in FF 48-50 instead of only using some of the basic elements of the story?

No, I don’t. Printed literature is much different than movies. The best example is Ian Flemming’s Goldfinger. In the book Goldfinger wanted to rob Fort Knox, which on paper only takes a couple of pages. If they did that in a movie, it would take a half an hour so they changed it..

A major purpose of this movie was to introduce the four characters and the world they lived in. They needed time to do that. By fantastic four 48–50 those characters were already established.

Also established in the comic, was the character of Alicia, the blind girlfriend of Ben Grimm . The movies focus would have to have changed if they followed the comic.  It would have become the startling saga of the Silver Surfer as he learns humanity from Alicia and then he confronts his master, Galactus. It would’ve been less about the fantastic four.

But I would have preferred a movie whose ending did not concentrate on the baby. Just them saving the world.

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Paul Heroy on July 27, 2025, 04:48:46 PM

Quote from: Barry on July 27, 2025, 03:32:58 PM

Paul,

I write this with a bit of a smile on my face because it’s funny. In the Comics Galactus promises not to return to earth but he returned to the Comics 31 times in the next 10 years. a good villain is a terrible thing to waste.

Ha, but to me that's a writing issue - which is also the case with the movie. In the movie itself, without external knowledge of the comics history, Galactus with his herald Silver Surfer, are not shown as duplicitous and in fact are very upfront that it's simply who he is and must be. Ironically, in using Galactus putting one life (his own) above the billions on a planet to establish that he has no moral integrity, you seem to be using the same justification that I am in questioning the FF's decision.

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: SRW1000 on December 07, 2025, 08:05:19 PM

We finally watched this movie last weekend, and it just didn't work for me.  It may be the best adaptation of the Fantastic Four but still got more wrong than it got right. 
 
The whole moral conundrum didn't work as a plot device and should have been avoided.  That would have eliminated much of the general complaints about the movie, as referenced by Paul.  There was no need to introduce it as one of the major themes of the movie.

One of the biggest strengths of the comic series was in the characters and their interactions, and I thought that was the biggest miss here.  All of these characters are flat, except perhaps for Sue.  One can argue that these characters are from a different multiverse version, so they don't have to resemble their "real" counterparts.  OK, but then bringing the Fantastic Four to the big screen is essentially meaningless. 

Reed Richards comes across as weak, frail, and not particularly bright or practical, with his original solution to the Galactus problem as just plain silly.  The modified solution is also fraught with easily avoidable errors.  Galactus has been monitoring Earth, but he's oblivious to a trap?  The movie doesn't do a great job of presenting him as the intellectual leader of the group.  When the Silver Surfer asks if the group is the protector of this world, Reed stand silent, dumbfounded, with mouth slightly agape; it's Sue that answers.

Johnny isn't the cocky, brash character we should have seen.  An early indication of this is when Sue makes a comment on TV about him being available.  The camera cuts to him and we see a blank, expressionless look.  The real Johnny should have eaten that moment up, either grinning widely, winking, or giving a confident nod.  It would have added to his character with no additional run time.  Joseph Quinn can’t hold a candle to Chris Evens’ portrayal.

Ben is left in the background here, not given much to do.  Visually, he looks pretty good, although I question the choice to give him a beard, which seems really weird.  His voice would have sounded better with a layer of gravelliness rather than the light-weight tone of Moss-Bachrach’s natural delivery, which is lacking gravitas and any morose feel.  He's just not much of a factor in the story and they missed an important aspect of his personality by substituting Rachel Rozman for Alicia Masters.  (This is a somewhat surprising move for Marvel, since it could have scored them some easy DEI points.)

I did like the quick nod to Timely Comics and the look for Galactus; Ineson has the perfect voice and presence for the part. 

With five different writers, there were bound to be problems with the script.  The story would have been served better if they had completely excised Sue’s pregnancy and the Franklin element; it took too much time away from the primary characters and their mission.  That time would have been better spent adding in The Watcher (who could help with the whole idea of the Multiverse), Alica Masters, and either dumping or developing a comic-accurate Mole Man rather than Paul Walter Hauser’s unfunny buffoon. 

The 60s-set aesthetics were all fine and visually interesting, but they’re just window dressing for the plot.  The score felt off, with the chorus coming across as grating rather than inspiring.

While this isn’t the worst post-Endgame Marvel movie, it doesn’t live up to the moniker of The World’s Greatest Comic Magazine.  I’ve come to the realization that a worthy adaptation will not come to the screen in my lifetime.

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Barry on December 08, 2025, 01:34:53 PM

You pretty much nailed it! I wrote a review for us at https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=4603.0 (https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=4603.0)

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: David Vaughn on December 08, 2025, 01:43:28 PM

I was given the Digital Copy of this movie and I haven't bothered to watch it. Maybe if I get sick and have to stay indoors for a few days I'll get caught up on these lower tier films, but it won't be a high priority. I've skipped most of the latest Marvel movies...to think that less than 10 years ago I would actually look forward to when they would come out. 

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: Barry on December 08, 2025, 02:10:32 PM

Quote from: David Vaughn on December 08, 2025, 01:43:28 PM

I was given the Digital Copy of this movie and I haven't bothered to watch it. Maybe if I get sick and have to stay indoors for a few days I'll get caught up on these lower tier films, but it won't be a high priority. I've skipped most of the latest Marvel movies...to think that less than 10 years ago I would actually look forward to when they would come out.

As good as they first were, they have been mostly bad since the Black Widow. The Eternals. Marvels, Thor Love and Thunder, Wakanda Forever, The FF, Thundetbolts, Captain America Brave New Words, Dr, Strange 2, Ant-Man 3 were very forgettable, movies. I did like the last Spider-Man with the 3 Spider-Men and Deadpool versus wolverine

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: David Vaughn on December 08, 2025, 03:02:28 PM

Quote from: Barry on December 08, 2025, 02:10:32 PM

As good as they first were, they have been mostly bad since the Black Widow. The Eternals. Marvels, Thor Love and Thunder, Wakanda Forever, The FF, Thundetbolts, Captain America Brave New Words, Dr, Strange 2, Ant-Man 3 were very forgettable, movies. I did like the last Spider-Man with the 3 Spider-Men and Deadpool versus wolverine

I did like the last Spider-Man film. The last Deadpool was just OK (first one is by far the best IMO). I've watched all the others except for Marvels, The FF, and Thunderbolts and I don't feel like I'm missing anything considering the other movies listed rated from Meh (BNW) to BAD (Ant-man 3). 

Title: Re: Fantastic Four First Steps Review
Post by: SRW1000 on December 08, 2025, 05:39:31 PM

Quote from: Barry on December 08, 2025, 01:34:53 PM

You pretty much nailed it! I wrote a review for us at https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=4603.0 (https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=4603.0)

Man, that's an awesome picture, Barry!  They look like they're in really good shape, as well.