AVS Discussions
Audio => Subwoofers => Topic started by: David Vaughn on April 24, 2022, 10:58:21 PM
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So, I recently reviewed a M&K X15+ subwoofer and absolutely loved it enough to keep it. It's the best subwoofer I've ever used in the 25+ years I've been involved with this hobby. In fact, it's the first sub that was able to handle the Edge of Tomorrow opening without any distortion at all at reference level (far too loud to listen for more than a few minutes). Anyway, in order to incorporate it with my current subs (SVS PC-Ultra, HSU VTF 15H MK-2, and stacked JL Audio F110s), I had to equalize some of its low-end output to play nice with the other subs. While I sacrifice some low-end output, I do get great response across my four seats in the theater. In my dream world, I get another M&K X15+ and just use dual subs....it would make calibration a lot easier, but is very expensive (the X15+ is $6K retail).
Anyway, here are my before and after calibration readings plus some output graphs from some movies. Needless to say, the bass is pretty damn impressive. I implemented a house curve from 105-30 dB in order to get great bass output at less than reference levels. As you can see, I got over 110 dB on the Edge of Tomorrow Intro with absolutely no distortion.
(https://i.imgur.com/7e591N4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AhpwQc6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tNdiOol.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LW3FGKC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ja1gcUI.jpg)
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Very nice. One request. Can you change the frequency response to 5db increments. Will help see the whole picture
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Also you shouldn’t need to sacrifice lowend to have it interact with your other subs. They should be complimenting each other.
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Also you shouldn’t need to sacrifice lowend to have it interact with your other subs. They should be complimenting each other.
I somewhat misspoke. I could push it, but it would cause distortion in the "lesser" subs...does that make sense?
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Here's the chart with finer measurements. (https://i.imgur.com/99uh9VM.jpg)
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I somewhat misspoke. I could push it, but it would cause distortion in the "lesser" subs...does that make sense?
That is the problem of not having 4 identical subs.
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That is the problem of not having 4 identical subs.
Plus, getting the different subs to "play nice" with each other can be a challenge. My wife was ready to throw me out of the house after two weekend of hearing frequency sweeps :)
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Greetings,
All in all, nice work here Dave. I like what you did with the house curve. Have fun and let 'er RIP!!
Regards,
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Greetings,
All in all, nice work here Dave. I like what you did with the house curve. Have fun and let 'er RIP!!
Regards,
Thanks Ralph :)
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Here's the chart with finer measurements. (https://i.imgur.com/99uh9VM.jpg)
Wow. Any smoothing on that graph?
looks great. Are all the subs vented or sealed. That’s really the only time they are really challenging.
either way looks great. Have fun :)
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Wow. Any smoothing on that graph?
looks great. Are all the subs vented or sealed. That’s really the only time they are really challenging.
either way looks great. Have fun :)
No smoothing applied to the graph. The JL Audio and M&K subs are sealed, the HSU and SVS are ported. It took me hours and hours to "get it right" and I learned a lot of things along the way as well in regard to using a sine wave at a particular frequency to help with the time delay.
So let's say you have a dip at 42 Hz, you can play a sine wave at the frequency and adjust the delay in the sub until the dB measurement starts to rise. I would then find out the "end point" at that frequency (when it would start to dip) and know that the proper delay was somewhere in that range. What you'll find, is that if you maximize the output at 42Hz, you end up screwing something up in another frequency, so you need to make minor adjustments within that range and see how it impacts the other frequencies. Needless to say, it involves a ton of trial and error with REW and the MiniDSP, but is well worth the effort.
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Ahhh. Mixing ported and sealed is a major no no. Shocked you were able to get tolerable results lol
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Ahhh. Mixing ported and sealed is a major no no. Shocked you were able to get tolerable results lol
It can be done, but it takes a lot more effort. At some point I'll go to all sealed subs, but I'm not at that point (yet).
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That's a really nice result!
I'm guessing this is for your MLP? Have you measured any other seats? Maybe they don't matter.
If they do, you could try using MSO (Multi Sub Optimizer), since you already have a MiniDSP. It could do all those calculations for you, and end up saving you time.
Scott
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That's a really nice result!
I'm guessing this is for your MLP? Have you measured any other seats? Maybe they don't matter.
If they do, you could try using MSO (Multi Sub Optimizer), since you already have a MiniDSP. It could do all those calculations for you, and end up saving you time.
Scott
I actually spent over 8 hours with MSO and hated the results. I calibrated everything to my listening position and it still sounds good in the other three seats (although not as good :D). I have a multi-purpose room that opens to two other rooms and I don't think MSO likes that type of situation. I was really hoping for better results, but it didn't turn out for me :(
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I actually spent over 8 hours with MSO and hated the results. I calibrated everything to my listening position and it still sounds good in the other three seats (although not as good :D). I have a multi-purpose room that opens to two other rooms and I don't think MSO likes that type of situation. I was really hoping for better results, but it didn't turn out for me :(
Interesting; most user reports I've read have been amazingly positive. Perhaps it is your room configuration, since the open areas could be causing some harder to control reflections that make balancing too difficult.
Good to hear you gave it a shot, and there's no disputing the smoothness of your current results, so I'd call that a win. (And we really don't care that much about the other seats, anyway. ;))
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Interesting; most user reports I've read have been amazingly positive. Perhaps it is your room configuration, since the open areas could be causing some harder to control reflections that make balancing too difficult.
Good to hear you gave it a shot, and there's no disputing the smoothness of your current results, so I'd call that a win. (And we really don't care that much about the other seats, anyway. ;))
I think one of the issues is I have a massive room null where my wife sits to my left. I've tried everything to get rid of it, but it's literally there with every subwoofer in the room where I'm able to place them. I think that messed up what MSO was trying to do...who knows. I was able to get great results on my own even though it took me two weekends to get it where I liked it.
And you're right...as long as my seat sounds great, that's all that matters :D
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Money seat!
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I think one of the issues is I have a massive room null where my wife sits to my left. I've tried everything to get rid of it, but it's literally there with every subwoofer in the room where I'm able to place them. I think that messed up what MSO was trying to do...who knows. I was able to get great results on my own even though it took me two weekends to get it where I liked it.
And you're right...as long as my seat sounds great, that's all that matters :D
Wow! Interesting that there is a 'massive null' to the left of the money seat and you couldn't work around it. It still looks like you achieved wonderful bass response in a difficult room. Enjoy!
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Wow! Interesting that there is a 'massive null' to the left of the money seat and you couldn't work around it. It still looks like you achieved wonderful bass response in a difficult room. Enjoy!
It's very strange...it's about a 3 foot circle and that seat is on the outer edge of it. What I found is if I got rid of the null there, it made the rest of the room a lot worse (by adjusting the timing of the delays).